Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm sure that the Navy will go trolling for F35 pilots at your FLGS any day now.

Lol. If you knew.

Psy-Titan wrote:

Bran Dawri wrote:
Mostly, I want Thunderwolf Cavalry and Canis to just disappear. As in, they don't exist and never did.

yes. the models, fluff and the rules suck. they should f#ck right off.

Well, Canis is a recenblance from the novel and character Tarzan, showing the question about men and his "inheretid" ability to be a "rational", thats why i dont see Canis as a impossible character, as the book, the man comes to a way to communicate with the apes that adopt him, the same happens with canis, and its not weird to happen, many persons that study the wolves have succed to join a wolf pack and being considere as one member and follows the jerarchy, some even becomes alphas.
On resume, read more

 Psienesis wrote:

Visual acuity, spacial awareness, and ability to focus on multiple things at once.

All Space Marines can do that, this is not a unique trait to Space Wolves. The Glavians do it through augmetic implants.

But the wolves are better at it than other marines. It isn't just their noses and ears that are better.

The codex does portray them as very good with their land speeders and they have non-codex flyers that they use, so there is no real reason for them not to have good pilots and fliers. They won't have to be super special pilots, but at least as good as the other chapters (I'm willing to cede the Blood Angels being used to flying could be better).

Space Wolves and flyers…

Fighter/Bomber:
I would not mind something “Wolfy” if it fit well.
Fighter: Something like a P-51 build around a pair Twin Linked Heavy Bolters or Auto-Cannons and some short range Missiles. This would fill the role of a fighter with the Space Wolf Close Combat mind set.
Bommer: I have no clue, something light an A-10, Assault Cannons or Avenger Bolter and a buck load of Bombs.

Air Transport:
Storm Raven: A Storm Raven would be great or something similar. I would love to see Logan, Arjac and Björn screaming in a Storm Raven.
Land Speeder Storm: Now the Land Speeder Storm I could see them as an option for the Wolf Scouts.

 anyeri wrote:

Psy-Titan wrote:

Bran Dawri wrote:
Mostly, I want Thunderwolf Cavalry and Canis to just disappear. As in, they don't exist and never did.

yes. the models, fluff and the rules suck. they should f#ck right off.

Well, Canis is a recenblance from the novel and character Tarzan, showing the question about men and his "inheretid" ability to be a "rational", thats why i dont see Canis as a impossible character, as the book, the man comes to a way to communicate with the apes that adopt him, the same happens with canis, and its not weird to happen, many persons that study the wolves have succed to join a wolf pack and being considere as one member and follows the jerarchy, some even becomes alphas.
On resume, read more

I don't have a problem with the fluff in terms of canis or any other fenrisian befriending and coming to lead a pack of wolves- in fact i quite like it! I think the addition of fenrisian wolves as FA was a great move and often field them in my armies with HQ's amongst them. What I'm saying is a)the models look f#cking dumb (how can canis even reach his foe with those claws from wolf back? And the Thunderwolf lord looks like someone punched a dwarf in the nose and put him in PA, not to mention the general awkward appearance of the models), b) yes the rules make wolf lords crazy powerful and they can take anyone in a duel with the right equipment and a bit of fortune but as for the FA units themselves I think on balance they are WAY over-hyped unless being used with apocalypse rules. c) as for the fluff: wolf HQ's leading fen. wolves is cool but its the RIDING of wolves I don't like.
You should be a little more certain about what someone means in a post before replying with cocky comments like 'read more' especially when your spelling, grammar and reasoning in this post are far from perfect

I would be either very happy, or very sad if Wolves get to take a Leman Russ Tank. Happy because I would totally use the one I have, and sad because I would have to buy a whole Space Wolf army and my girlfriend would kill me...

Having access to Leman Russ tanks would be a nice fluffy touch yes.

Fluffy touch yes, but would you ever field one? Its obvious that it would go into the HS slot and probably not be squadronable. And given the current stats of the Russ, would you really take one? Unless things massively change it would still be fighting for space against Long Fangs, Vindicators, and Landraiders. All of which show up in SW armies with some regularity. I'd think that the Russ that does get included would have to offer something special to replace those staples.

They fire Bloodclaws at the enemy. That's why the Leman Russ tank stands out this time. This edition they just have the bloodclaws load up and they fire those bunch of idiots at the enemy lol

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Having access to Leman Russ tanks would be a nice fluffy touch yes.

Aside from just the name (dating back to Rogue Trader when Leman Russ was a 41st Millenium Imperial Commander) there's nothing fluffy about the Space Wolves having Leman Russ tanks. They're small even for guardsmen, much less 8ft tall supermen in gigantic armor. They share none of the same logistical requirements as the rest of the SM arsenal, and cannot keep pace with any other SM vehicles.

Also, as noted, given the current state of the Leman Russ, they're probably not a particularly great fit into the army.

I'd honestly like it to stay mostly the same as the current one I love with some big fixes. Namely, fix Blood Claws. Drop some points or give them a special rule or something that makes them worth costing as much as a Grey Hunter. I always thought Feel No Pain would be a great rule for Blood Claws and make them much more viable.

I always thought Predators costed to damn much, in all the SM books, so I'd love to see their cost go down.

In terms of actual fun, I'd love a huge selection of war gear for HQ's and Elites. I feel like Space Wolf HQ's should be like Tau Crisis Suits, able to be be kitted out with a variety of options to make them able to handle numerous situations. The modeling of space wolf heroes is fun as hell and my favorite part of the book, so I definitely want more options on that front.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Having access to Leman Russ tanks would be a nice fluffy touch yes.

Aside from just the name (dating back to Rogue Trader when Leman Russ was a 41st Millenium Imperial Commander) there's nothing fluffy about the Space Wolves having Leman Russ tanks. They're small even for guardsmen, much less 8ft tall supermen in gigantic armor. They share none of the same logistical requirements as the rest of the SM arsenal, and cannot keep pace with any other SM vehicles.

Also, as noted, given the current state of the Leman Russ, they're probably not a particularly great fit into the army.

Considering that there'll be an IG book before the SW one comes out, I think that their primary problems will be fixed or the tank will see a price drop... then again, after the mangling my poor Nids received, I wouldn't be surprised by anything.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Having access to Leman Russ tanks would be a nice fluffy touch yes.

Aside from just the name (dating back to Rogue Trader when Leman Russ was a 41st Millenium Imperial Commander) there's nothing fluffy about the Space Wolves having Leman Russ tanks. They're small even for guardsmen, much less 8ft tall supermen in gigantic armor. They share none of the same logistical requirements as the rest of the SM arsenal, and cannot keep pace with any other SM vehicles.

Also, as noted, given the current state of the Leman Russ, they're probably not a particularly great fit into the army.

Considering that there'll be an IG book before the SW one comes out, I think that their primary problems will be fixed or the tank will see a price drop... then again, after the mangling my poor Nids received, I wouldn't be surprised by anything.

Considering that the Russ probably fills a different roll for an IG army than one would fill for an SM army I wouldn't get my hopes up. Its ok to be optimistic naturally but I find it difficult to believe you can easily cut and paste a unit from a horde style book into a MEQ type book.

There is a reason that the tank was a novelty even in the old 3rd ed book. I know a lot of people had one because of its unique nature in an SM army, but I don't think I actually ever played against one on the battlefield.

Vaktathi wrote:...just the name (dating back to Rogue Trader when Leman Russ was a 41st Millenium Imperial Commander)...

That's interesting because I have a Rogue Trader era compilation (the one with Eldar, Genestealers, and Power Armour variants) that also has a write-up on Leman Russ being the Primarch of the Space Wolves during the Great Crusade - and also talks about the Horus Heresy.

Not calling you a liar, especially since it's the only Rogue Trader era publication I have, but interesting that they'd change the character. I guess it shows they hadn't really locked down the back-story at that point. Do you have more info on him from back then?

For those on about Canis, its not like he's the first celebrated character raised by wolves. Also, wolves accepting humans as alphas and responding to their commands was one of the steps necissary for the domestication of the dog. So it has scientific precedent too.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Having access to Leman Russ tanks would be a nice fluffy touch yes.

Aside from just the name (dating back to Rogue Trader when Leman Russ was a 41st Millenium Imperial Commander) there's nothing fluffy about the Space Wolves having Leman Russ tanks. They're small even for guardsmen, much less 8ft tall supermen in gigantic armor. They share none of the same logistical requirements as the rest of the SM arsenal, and cannot keep pace with any other SM vehicles.

Also, as noted, given the current state of the Leman Russ, they're probably not a particularly great fit into the army.

We had them in the 2nd Edtion and 3rd Edition Codexs

I think 13th company would be easy. just a bunch of grey hunters with mark of wulfen.

Grey hunters are cool, sky claws are nice, swift claws are OK. If all of those were troops you'd have a solid, flexible codex. But that's wishlisting, right?

I'd like to see a unit which is just a few space wolves with packs of fenrisian wolves. Has anyone Played Rome I/II total war? like the war dogs from that. Just a unit of say, 5 grey hunters with 20 or so fenrisian wolves that they just sick on an opponent, while the grey hunters hold back - the wolves could be used to absorb overwatch and trap units in assault for something like thunderwolf cavalry.

 Scipio Africanus wrote:
I think 13th company would be easy. just a bunch of grey hunters with mark of wulfen.

Grey hunters are cool, sky claws are nice, swift claws are OK. If all of those were troops you'd have a solid, flexible codex. But that's wishlisting, right?

I'd like to see a unit which is just a few space wolves with packs of fenrisian wolves. Has anyone Played Rome I/II total war? like the war dogs from that. Just a unit of say, 5 grey hunters with 20 or so fenrisian wolves that they just sick on an opponent, while the grey hunters hold back - the wolves could be used to absorb overwatch and trap units in assault for something like thunderwolf cavalry.

Sort of like Crusader Squads, I like it.

Anpu42 wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Having access to Leman Russ tanks would be a nice fluffy touch yes.

Aside from just the name (dating back to Rogue Trader when Leman Russ was a 41st Millenium Imperial Commander) there's nothing fluffy about the Space Wolves having Leman Russ tanks. They're small even for guardsmen, much less 8ft tall supermen in gigantic armor. They share none of the same logistical requirements as the rest of the SM arsenal, and cannot keep pace with any other SM vehicles.

Also, as noted, given the current state of the Leman Russ, they're probably not a particularly great fit into the army.

We had them in the 2nd Edtion and 3rd Edition Codexs

Not in 2nd Edition we didn't. 3rd was the only codex to ever put an Imperial Guard unit in with the Space Wolves

I love both Space Wolves and Imperial Guard tanks, but I have no need to mix them both in the same codex

Psy-Titan wrote:

 anyeri wrote:

Psy-Titan wrote:

Bran Dawri wrote:
Mostly, I want Thunderwolf Cavalry and Canis to just disappear. As in, they don't exist and never did.

yes. the models, fluff and the rules suck. they should f#ck right off.

Well, Canis is a recenblance from the novel and character Tarzan, showing the question about men and his "inheretid" ability to be a "rational", thats why i dont see Canis as a impossible character, as the book, the man comes to a way to communicate with the apes that adopt him, the same happens with canis, and its not weird to happen, many persons that study the wolves have succed to join a wolf pack and being considere as one member and follows the jerarchy, some even becomes alphas.
On resume, read more

I don't have a problem with the fluff in terms of canis or any other fenrisian befriending and coming to lead a pack of wolves- in fact i quite like it! I think the addition of fenrisian wolves as FA was a great move and often field them in my armies with HQ's amongst them. What I'm saying is a)the models look f#cking dumb (how can canis even reach his foe with those claws from wolf back? And the Thunderwolf lord looks like someone punched a dwarf in the nose and put him in PA, not to mention the general awkward appearance of the models), b) yes the rules make wolf lords crazy powerful and they can take anyone in a duel with the right equipment and a bit of fortune but as for the FA units themselves I think on balance they are WAY over-hyped unless being used with apocalypse rules. c) as for the fluff: wolf HQ's leading fen. wolves is cool but its the RIDING of wolves I don't like.
You should be a little more certain about what someone means in a post before replying with cocky comments like 'read more' especially when your spelling, grammar and reasoning in this post are far from perfect

A) English it not my natal language, so learn to respect the persons that still keep learning, this is not like the movies, where even the aliens choose to speack english
B) Tarzan lead the apes and was capable to interact with other species, why not to interact with wolves
C) You were the one that didnt understand, Canis can fight on the mount of a giant wolf? of couerse he can, thats why he has a huge frekin claws, and a wolve is a more flexible animal than a horse (history fact: the mongolians conquer half of europa over a horse, so make a picture what you can do riding a giant wolve), is the same with the chaos, how you can fight on the back of a brass cow? and they keep doing it.
It is a matter of taste, if you dont like it, dont field them, but dont ask the same for every one, thats why is a codex with lots of options so you dont have to field only the same models as everyone, instead of asking to remove them, why not ask for more optioms, so you dont have to look on them, that sounds more logical and make a better coexistence between the fans.
I giving the facts about why i love the models and why i dont see them as a silly unit, supported with literature and natgeo investigations


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jefffar wrote:
For those on about Canis, its not like he's the first celebrated character raised by wolves. Also, wolves accepting humans as alphas and responding to their commands was one of the steps necissary for the domestication of the dog. So it has scientific precedent too.

This, thanks

I'd like to see a sword and shield type unit. Maybe even turn blood claws into them. Something like their current statline/special rules but each is armed with chainsword, bolter, and combat shield (4++ in HTH) Allow one per 3 models to exchange the chainsword for a special melee weapon. I think a load out like this would be very vikingish visually and make the bloodclaw sufficantly different than grey hunters.

Infact it would be pretty visually cool to see shields on biker and jump pack guys. Might be a fluffy reason to give your young hard headed guys a little extra protection.

I'm calling it now, the space wolf air unit will be called the "Air Wolf"

 Jayden63 wrote:
I'd like to see a sword and shield type unit. Maybe even turn blood claws into them. Something like their current statline/special rules but each is armed with chainsword, bolter, and combat shield (4++ in HTH) Allow one per 3 models to exchange the chainsword for a special melee weapon. I think a load out like this would be very vikingish visually and make the bloodclaw sufficantly different than grey hunters.

Infact it would be pretty visually cool to see shields on biker and jump pack guys. Might be a fluffy reason to give your young hard headed guys a little extra protection.

Combat shields give a 6++ save, and can fit a bolt pistol. They differ from storm shields in that you may gain the +1 attack for having a pistol.

I wouldn't give them a 4+ in CC. I'd say a 5++ with a very large shield that replaces the bolter/bolt pistol completely, for free. That way, you can have a unit of vikings clad in power armour, wielding fearsome axes without the price tag.

Nordic Huscarl shields were huge, mind you. So huge in fact that men could not swing them. So, Nordic soldiers used to form a shield wall and fight meatgrinder style with those shields. (Something akin to 300, but embedded in reality and with no or few spears and mostly short, straight swords and bearded axes.)

The Viking way of fighting was remarkably similar to the Roman way of fighting. The only difference was that the Romans were Hydrophobic to a degree. (Except for pompey and his pirates.)

 Jayden63 wrote:
I'd like to see a sword and shield type unit. Maybe even turn blood claws into them. Something like their current statline/special rules but each is armed with chainsword, bolter, and combat shield (4++ in HTH) Allow one per 3 models to exchange the chainsword for a special melee weapon. I think a load out like this would be very vikingish visually and make the bloodclaw sufficantly different than grey hunters.

Infact it would be pretty visually cool to see shields on biker and jump pack guys. Might be a fluffy reason to give your young hard headed guys a little extra protection.

I like the idea, maybe a whole unit with shiedls that give always 4++, chainswords, bolt pistols and frozzen granades (maybe some penality to initiative or attacks) and stats of blood claws, for every five you gain a power weapon, liek the blood claws, you have acces to one plasma pistol and for 10 models in the unit you gain acces to the powerfist


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Maybe i am asking to much, maybe is to make to powerful a unit or not, but make the TWC cappable of being a dakka unit, give them relentless and some more range optioms, like a plasma rifles or stormbolters, but with the plasmas is good, i dont know maybe is to much jeje

My idea behind the shield/sword unit was to make a strong HTH type unit, but keep them cheapish. MEQ doesn't need expensive troop choice. They needed to be changed a bit.
The lower BS and WS would make them worth about 12 points with their current statline. Their special rules (not including army wide unit rules) are only worth about a point because they are offsetting (one positive one negative) The 4++ (lets call it a Kraken shield just to be different, since its not a combat shield or a stormshield) in HTH is also a situational buff and is actually usefull. A 6++ is not, you can't depend on it to keep the unit alive, but negating half of a Hammernator squads hits, thats something you can depend on. They are also marines so I felt that a bolter would be a more appropriate shooting weapon than a bolt pistol. It being the signature weapon of Marines. The young guys need to start with the basics.

I felt that at 14-15 ppm, I'd be willing to take these guys especially if you can up the number of special CC weapons. 15 points per P-fist or 10 per power weapon can stack up points wise so you have to watch it, but it also means your main killy weapons can't be challenged out for a turn. Something that really puts a cramp on HTH units in the current rule set.

I really feel that they need to be significantly different than Grey Hunters to be included once again in the army lists. Especially since IMO Grey Hunters are perfect as they are.

karlosovic wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:...just the name (dating back to Rogue Trader when Leman Russ was a 41st Millenium Imperial Commander)...

That's interesting because I have a Rogue Trader era compilation (the one with Eldar, Genestealers, and Power Armour variants) that also has a write-up on Leman Russ being the Primarch of the Space Wolves during the Great Crusade - and also talks about the Horus Heresy.

Not calling you a liar, especially since it's the only Rogue Trader era publication I have, but interesting that they'd change the character. I guess it shows they hadn't really locked down the back-story at that point. Do you have more info on him from back then?

The Primarch's and the HH stuff started getting published a few years into Rogue Trader before 2E came out, but in the original Rogue Trader book, Leman Russ is featured as a 41st Millenium Imperial Commander, the Fang is showed largely as a medieval castle type thingy. This was back when the rulebook had quips about people being sent to labor camps for late library books, the game had rules for air to air combat and dinosaurs, SM's only got a 5+ save against Lasguns and were still T3 but could take Shuriken weapons, IG Commissar's could ride on Jetbikes, Eldar Harlequins could take a Land Raider, etc.

Anpu42 wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Having access to Leman Russ tanks would be a nice fluffy touch yes.

Aside from just the name (dating back to Rogue Trader when Leman Russ was a 41st Millenium Imperial Commander) there's nothing fluffy about the Space Wolves having Leman Russ tanks. They're small even for guardsmen, much less 8ft tall supermen in gigantic armor. They share none of the same logistical requirements as the rest of the SM arsenal, and cannot keep pace with any other SM vehicles.

Also, as noted, given the current state of the Leman Russ, they're probably not a particularly great fit into the army.

We had them in the 2nd Edtion and 3rd Edition Codexs

Only the 3E book, and only the Exterminator variant. The 2E SW book didn't have it.

 Vaktathi wrote:

karlosovic wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:...just the name (dating back to Rogue Trader when Leman Russ was a 41st Millenium Imperial Commander)...

That's interesting because I have a Rogue Trader era compilation (the one with Eldar, Genestealers, and Power Armour variants) that also has a write-up on Leman Russ being the Primarch of the Space Wolves during the Great Crusade - and also talks about the Horus Heresy.

Not calling you a liar, especially since it's the only Rogue Trader era publication I have, but interesting that they'd change the character. I guess it shows they hadn't really locked down the back-story at that point. Do you have more info on him from back then?

The Primarch's and the HH stuff started getting published a few years into Rogue Trader before 2E came out, but in the original Rogue Trader book, Leman Russ is featured as a 41st Millenium Imperial Commander, the Fang is showed largely as a medieval castle type thingy. This was back when the rulebook had quips about people being sent to labor camps for late library books, the game had rules for air to air combat and dinosaurs, SM's only got a 5+ save against Lasguns and were still T3 but could take Shuriken weapons, IG Commissar's could ride on Jetbikes, Eldar Harlequins could take a Land Raider, etc.

Wow that's a LOT different to the state of things by 2E period (I started playing early in the 2nd Ed era, so that's kind of the definitive edition for me)

Edit:
My sig says Space Wolves since '94, but I actually started off with Orks, which quickly become my brother's main army when the original Codex: Space Wolves was published and I switched to Wolves.

 Jayden63 wrote:
My idea behind the shield/sword unit was to make a strong HTH type unit, but keep them cheapish. MEQ doesn't need expensive troop choice. They needed to be changed a bit.
The lower BS and WS would make them worth about 12 points with their current statline. Their special rules (not including army wide unit rules) are only worth about a point because they are offsetting (one positive one negative) The 4++ (lets call it a Kraken shield just to be different, since its not a combat shield or a stormshield) in HTH is also a situational buff and is actually usefull. A 6++ is not, you can't depend on it to keep the unit alive, but negating half of a Hammernator squads hits, thats something you can depend on. They are also marines so I felt that a bolter would be a more appropriate shooting weapon than a bolt pistol. It being the signature weapon of Marines. The young guys need to start with the basics.

I felt that at 14-15 ppm, I'd be willing to take these guys especially if you can up the number of special CC weapons. 15 points per P-fist or 10 per power weapon can stack up points wise so you have to watch it, but it also means your main killy weapons can't be challenged out for a turn. Something that really puts a cramp on HTH units in the current rule set.

I really feel that they need to be significantly different than Grey Hunters to be included once again in the army lists. Especially since IMO Grey Hunters are perfect as they are.

Yes and No, i feel they need the always 4++, is more a need in this edition, for a hth unit to survive the volleys of shoot and ap3-2 weapons need the 4++, about the bolt pistol, it is suppose that the bolter is a benerable weapon, a relic, more than the bolt pistol, the bolter is a more valiuble weapon, and is the reason why the blood claws use bolt pistols, only the best blood claws become grey hunters and recive the bolter.
Fluff aside, i would pay 18 points for each model, the same cost of the skyclaw, they have more survivality and maybe the specail item (frozzen granades, i like it the idea jeje, the dark anges have stasis granades, we have nitrogen granades )
PD: why no call it Kraken hide shields?

 karlosovic wrote:

Anpu42 wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Having access to Leman Russ tanks would be a nice fluffy touch yes.

Aside from just the name (dating back to Rogue Trader when Leman Russ was a 41st Millenium Imperial Commander) there's nothing fluffy about the Space Wolves having Leman Russ tanks. They're small even for guardsmen, much less 8ft tall supermen in gigantic armor. They share none of the same logistical requirements as the rest of the SM arsenal, and cannot keep pace with any other SM vehicles.

Also, as noted, given the current state of the Leman Russ, they're probably not a particularly great fit into the army.

We had them in the 2nd Edtion and 3rd Edition Codexs

Not in 2nd Edition we didn't. 3rd was the only codex to ever put an Imperial Guard unit in with the Space Wolves

I love both Space Wolves and Imperial Guard tanks, but I have no need to mix them both in the same codex

Yes I just pulled out my 2nd ed book and you right [how often do you see that here?] I just could have sworn that I used one in 2nd, oh well.