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If we're going to start talking about what you can take as allied dataslates, the discussion kind of breaks apart. Space Marines are also battle brothers with Tau while SW aren't.

WOW !!!

What a whiny bitch-fest this thread has become.

Kavik_Whitescar wrote:
I will agree you want a balanced dex, and the few others who kept their cool but as for martel

Oh, and if GW insists on having good and bad codices, the SW have NEVER had their turn on the bottom. EVER. They're due for a terrible codex. Lots of karma is owed.

I dont see this as wanting Balance, seems to me he is pretty dead set on bitching and moaning till SW get put into an awful codex

I have hated Space Wolves since 2nd edition. So this isn't a recent thing. BA have been bad before, I'm just very sick of SW getting special treatment. SW get too many advantages for free compared to other meqs as it stands right now. All justified by "fluff". Well, Dante is the oldest mother f*&&^^er in the Space Marines and he's a turd. Where's my fluff?

This is a game, with tiny plastic men and little plastic tanks. You are holding a grudge against tiny plastic men, and little plastic tanks because they are unique to meet a demographic and written in a way that GW seems to find acceptable. New codex discussions aside, I think you have some serious issues and need to take a step back.

Well said, mate.

I think the anti-Space Wolf bitching has gone on long enough.

We get it, you're bitter that Space Wolves have never had a truly sucky codex (surely not the only faction to have some decent consistency though?)
And most of us agree that tactical marines have always been horribly inefficient and lacking with respect to their price and background material.

We're talking about what we'd like to see in a new Codex: Space Wolves. You want to see our team to suffer.
That's a pretty negative and unsportsmanlike attitude, but I guess you're allowed your opinion.
Well, you've voiced it now and had your cry.

Move on.

http://www.blacklibrary.com/games-workshop-digital-editions/Dataslate-Adeptus-Astartes-Storm-Wing.html

Here ya go.
If storm talons could escort drop pods I might consider taking one for my dread.

Thanks for the post!

Move on.

Well said, partner.

Don't worry, I'm sure GW will come through for the Wolf Boys like always. If it makes you feel better to characterize the truth as "crying", go ahead.

The anti-Space Wolf bitching might stop if they actually were ever brought into line with the rest of meq-dom.

Martel732 wrote:
Don't worry, I'm sure GW will come through for the Wolf Boys like always. If it makes you feel better to characterize the truth as "crying", go ahead.

The anti-Space Wolf bitching might stop if they actually were ever brought into line with the rest of meq-dom.

we are not MEQ, we are marines +1

Just like the Black Templars used to be, Like the Dark Angels should be, and any other chapter special enough to have gotten their own Codex. However with GW Rolling BT, WS and IF into the regular marine's codex they seem to have taken the obvious +1 away from most of the chapters.

I think every space wolves player understands that grey hunters, long fangs, and rune priests are generally better than their counterparts. But when you look at the rest of the codex, it is nearly impossible to justify taking any other choices. All of the hqs are terribly expensive. In terms of troops, blood claws cost the same as grey hunters but are significantly worse. Those are the only two options. I don't know about other space wolves players, but I personally don't like the fact that I am limited to a single troop choice every game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
A single choice for the troops slot is what I meant

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
If we're going to start talking about what you can take as allied dataslates, the discussion kind of breaks apart. Space Marines are also battle brothers with Tau while SW aren't.

What can SM actually even offer tau? Taudar is usually a thing for a reason, the dataslate for allied flyers is pretty standard across Imperium and allows for universal flight access for SM.

we are not MEQ, we are marines +1

Just like the Black Templars used to be, Like the Dark Angels should be, and any other chapter special enough to have gotten their own Codex. However with GW Rolling BT, WS and IF into the regular marine's codex they seem to have taken the obvious +1 away from most of the chapters.

Er, WS, IF have always been apart of codex: SM, they had Chapter Traits in 4th, and Lysander was in 4th alongside Shrike, 5th expanded it out and gave other's SC's as well.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
If we're going to start talking about what you can take as allied dataslates, the discussion kind of breaks apart. Space Marines are also battle brothers with Tau while SW aren't.

What can SM actually even offer tau? Taudar is usually a thing for a reason, the dataslate for allied flyers is pretty standard across Imperium and allows for universal flight access for SM.

we are not MEQ, we are marines +1

Just like the Black Templars used to be, Like the Dark Angels should be, and any other chapter special enough to have gotten their own Codex. However with GW Rolling BT, WS and IF into the regular marine's codex they seem to have taken the obvious +1 away from most of the chapters.

Er, WS, IF have always been apart of codex: SM, they had Chapter Traits in 4th, and Lysander was in 4th alongside Shrike, 5th expanded it out and gave other's SC's as well.

I had thought as much having not seen any old edi codexs at the local half priced books but wasnt for sure.

Also, its not what SM can do for Tau in this discussion its what Tau can do for SM. Which is over power many lists with xenos shooting, adding interceptor to lists who would struggle with drop pod lists providing a whole new way to play SM and adding all kinds of combos because they are battle brothers. While SW cannot, I am not using this as any sort of "Oh woe is me the lonely SW player and no Xenos allies" but as a dont just dismiss SM Tau allies because it isnt the Taudar lists that everyone wants to run in the tournaments.

Also, its not what SM can do for Tau in this discussion its what Tau can do for SM. Which is over power many lists with xenos shooting, adding interceptor to lists who would struggle with drop pod lists providing a whole new way to play SM and adding all kinds of combos because they are battle brothers. While SW cannot, I am not using this as any sort of "Oh woe is me the lonely SW player and no Xenos allies" but as a dont just dismiss SM Tau allies because it isnt the Taudar lists that everyone wants to run in the tournaments.

Actually considering the thought, TauSM do have combo's, but it doesn't require BB, they don't really have many buff effects they want to spread to each other, SM's only divination comes from Tigurius (and FW), and generally the same benefits is provided to SW as it is SM, if not slightly better as SW's troops have the specialized focus in the upfield that Tau lack.

SM's usual focus in the backfield with Thunderfire usually doesn't mesh as well with Tau's shooting, while SW's aggressive style actually benefits tau because it gives backfield problems as you have to deal with as well as tau's shooting.


Though to be honest, you could add tau to most armies and improve them.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:

Kavik_Whitescar wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Jayden63 wrote:
As they are right now, they are -1 in shooting. No Thunderfires, limited typhoon landspeeders, no sternguard, no grav guns, no Centurion devastators. no flyers of any kind with any sort of guns what so ever.

And I'll be honest. I really dont want any of those things when the codex gets redone either.

Ok ok, I'll admit, having more typhoon landspeeders wouldn't be a bad thing.

You can take the Stormraven/Stormtalon dataslate, why does every SW keep ignoring this? You can take the exact same flyers as SM.

I'm not ignoring it, I just have no intrest in those models in particular as of right now, I dont know why most of the people here havent yet realized that they have access to em :/

Really? What book is that in, if you don't mind my asking. (My LGS bans Forge World rules, unfortunately, so that might be why I haven't heard it...)

http://www.blacklibrary.com/games-workshop-digital-editions/Dataslate-Adeptus-Astartes-Storm-Wing.html

Here ya go.

If storm talons could escort drop pods I might consider taking one for my dread.

Even normal storm talons can't escort Drop pods.

However it still means you can take flyers, even DA mostly take the dataslate over their own flyers.

Well... That's something, I guess...
I mean, we still can't ride anyone inside the tanks, they're just SM vehicles that we can add to our army for free... At that point, I might as well ally in SM completely to get cheap scouts, Tigurius, and Sternguard Veterans as well as a Storm Raven and a Storm Talon.

Well... That's something, I guess...
I mean, we still can't ride anyone inside the tanks, they're just SM vehicles that we can add to our army for free... At that point, I might as well ally in SM completely to get cheap scouts, Tigurius, and Sternguard Veterans as well as a Storm Raven and a Storm Talon.

Why? Tigurius is taken for Divination, which you can take up to four slots worth if you need that, and you get better anti-psyker capabilities to deal with Daemons and Eldar.
Scouts, you have better troops then that.

Sternguard, sure.

If you really want to take all that for flyers, sure why not.

Kavik_Whitescar wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Don't worry, I'm sure GW will come through for the Wolf Boys like always. If it makes you feel better to characterize the truth as "crying", go ahead.

The anti-Space Wolf bitching might stop if they actually were ever brought into line with the rest of meq-dom.

we are not MEQ, we are marines +1

Just like the Black Templars used to be, Like the Dark Angels should be, and any other chapter special enough to have gotten their own Codex. However with GW Rolling BT, WS and IF into the regular marine's codex they seem to have taken the obvious +1 away from most of the chapters.

Sure don't get charged like marines +1. It should be taken away.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Well... That's something, I guess...
I mean, we still can't ride anyone inside the tanks, they're just SM vehicles that we can add to our army for free... At that point, I might as well ally in SM completely to get cheap scouts, Tigurius, and Sternguard Veterans as well as a Storm Raven and a Storm Talon.

Why? Tigurius is taken for Divination, which you can take up to four slots worth if you need that, and you get better anti-psyker capabilities to deal with Daemons and Eldar.
Scouts, you have better troops then that.

Sternguard, sure.

If you really want to take all that for flyers, sure why not.

For 15 points over a ML2 Rune Priest you get ML3 and a much better chance at achieving the power you want. If I'm taking Rune Priests they will be cheap as heck because they're generally not worth upgrading. With Tiguries you get a great chance at adding Ignores Cover, giving a 4+ invuln, forcing rerolls of saves, etc. as well as Prescience.

As for Scouts... We've got better alpha strike troops, but if you want cheap backline objective holders, scouts win by a country mile. Grey Hunters are fantastic, but to use them right you're incesting 150-200 points per squad. 70 points for an equipped scout squad is cheap, has good durability (+1 to cover saves,) and can be useful in shooting, though they aren't great.

Njtrent59 wrote:
I think every space wolves player understands that grey hunters, long fangs, and rune priests are generally better than their counterparts. But when you look at the rest of the codex, it is nearly impossible to justify taking any other choices. All of the hqs are terribly expensive. In terms of troops, blood claws cost the same as grey hunters but are significantly worse. Those are the only two options. I don't know about other space wolves players, but I personally don't like the fact that I am limited to a single troop choice every game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
A single choice for the troops slot is what I meant

One good choice is better than zero good choices.

Martel, as said before, we get it! You hate Wolves! Stuff it already! You're not interested in balance your interested in seeing a codex/army you clearly don't like suffer. We get it! Move on!


As for the other stuff that has been mentioned Dataslates are still eh to me. The one regarding flyers, eh especially. it's too big of a point sink when, by rights, taking SM allies offers far more potential and over all service. Can respectively take a flier customized to how you wish it to be. While also taking what ever goodies you want. Really is better then the dataslate when you look at it like that.

 Wolf Lord Kevin wrote:
Martel, as said before, we get it! You hate Wolves! Stuff it already! You're not interested in balance your interested in seeing a codex/army you clearly don't like suffer. We get it! Move on!

Ever considered that loads of us are in here because the blatant wishlisting in this thread is insane? For example:

 Anpu42 wrote:
In an attempt to get back on track:

I really don’t think there is much that can be done to Long Fangs. I would be happy with a Copy Paste with Flack Missiles and the Long Fang Pack Leader gaining access to an Auspex for x points, that can not be used at the same time as the Split Fire.

Retaining everything that's unique for the Space Wolves and getting stuff from the Vanilla Codex as well is crazy. People are wanting to both have the cake and eat it, and they can't even see it.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:


Ever considered that loads of us are in here because the blatand wishlisting in this thread is insane? For example:

 Anpu42 wrote:
In an attempt to get back on track:

I really don’t think there is much that can be done to Long Fangs. I would be happy with a Copy Paste with Flack Missiles and the Long Fang Pack Leader gaining access to an Auspex for x points, that can not be used at the same time as the Split Fire.

Retaining everything that's unique for the Space Wolves and getting stuff from the Vanilla Codex as well is crazy. People are wanting to both have the cake and eat it, and they can't even see it.

Wishlisting in a wishlisting thread? HERESY!!!!111oneleven

 Mywik wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:


Ever considered that loads of us are in here because the blatant wishlisting in this thread is insane? For example:

 Anpu42 wrote:
In an attempt to get back on track:

I really don’t think there is much that can be done to Long Fangs. I would be happy with a Copy Paste with Flack Missiles and the Long Fang Pack Leader gaining access to an Auspex for x points, that can not be used at the same time as the Split Fire.

Retaining everything that's unique for the Space Wolves and getting stuff from the Vanilla Codex as well is crazy. People are wanting to both have the cake and eat it, and they can't even see it.

Wishlisting in a wishlisting thread? HERESY!!!!111oneleven

We're pointing out how over-the-top some of the stuff is.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Mywik wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:


Ever considered that loads of us are in here because the blatant wishlisting in this thread is insane? For example:

 Anpu42 wrote:
In an attempt to get back on track:

I really don’t think there is much that can be done to Long Fangs. I would be happy with a Copy Paste with Flack Missiles and the Long Fang Pack Leader gaining access to an Auspex for x points, that can not be used at the same time as the Split Fire.

Retaining everything that's unique for the Space Wolves and getting stuff from the Vanilla Codex as well is crazy. People are wanting to both have the cake and eat it, and they can't even see it.

Wishlisting in a wishlisting thread? HERESY!!!!111oneleven

We're pointing out how over-the-top some of the stuff is.

So does wishlisting overpowered stuff hurt anyone? We all know nothing that is being said in this thread ever comes into consideration so who cares.
Of course its kinda naive to wishlist for a point reduce for GHs while retaining their current gear. Its also naive wishlisting to think the 24" antipsibubble would stay. Or that we could still pick psi powers how we want. We all know there are certain things that will be nerfed (im looking at you JotWW).

Kavik_Whitescar wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Don't worry, I'm sure GW will come through for the Wolf Boys like always. If it makes you feel better to characterize the truth as "crying", go ahead.

The anti-Space Wolf bitching might stop if they actually were ever brought into line with the rest of meq-dom.

we are not MEQ, we are marines +1

Just like the Black Templars used to be, Like the Dark Angels should be, and any other chapter special enough to have gotten their own Codex. However with GW Rolling BT, WS and IF into the regular marine's codex they seem to have taken the obvious +1 away from most of the chapters.

Why should any of these chapters be Marines+1 though? Why not just all = marines. Why not all armies be balanced? Why bother with it in the end? BT are crusaders, why not just have the chapters be SM+- gaining some things and losing other bits rather than just Marines+1. If any army should be marines+1 it should be GK and that's really just a blatant exception

We all want a balanced codex.

You only have to look at the current dex's to see some of what will happen :

Rolling on a table for Psychic powers or choosing to use the BRB ones.

A Flyer, or even two of them ( fighter and bomber ).

Warlord Traits of varying usefulness.

Chapter Relics ( hopefully not too much wolfyness included ).

Costs that come down in places, only to be raised in others, making the units in question not too far off points cost as they are now.

I have repeated myself a little bit, but looking at the others, i doubt we are doomed to a rubbish codex.

 StarTrotter wrote:
BT are crusaders, why not just have the chapters be SM+- gaining some things and losing other bits rather than just Marines+1.

This is one of the reasons I don't like the current situation of the Space Wolves: Dark Angels aren't Marines+1, Blood Angels aren't Marines+1 (even if they arguably were in 5th), Black Templars sure as hell aren't Marines+1. The current Space Wolves Codex has been Marines+1 since it was released, and when the new Vanilla book was released and levelled the playing field a bit all of a sudden Space Wolves "deserve" everything new and awesome.

To all the people whining about how Space Wolves should be nerfed... can you actually offer some suggestions? All I seem to be reading is whinging, can we get some actual suggestions?

I think if people complaining that SW are too much actually offered some suggestions that were...

a) Balanced
b) Kept the uniqueness of the army

They might be better received.

My suggestion would be to roll them into the standard codex. Along with DA and BA.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
To all the people whining about how Space Wolves should be nerfed... can you actually offer some suggestions? All I seem to be reading is whinging, can we get some actual suggestions?

Here's a few suggestion: Remove the 4+ denial on Rune Weapons, give Rune Priests a Psychic Hood (let Njal keep the denial, possibly with a drop to 5+). Drop Prices to same level as everyone else. Limit Long Fang weapons to 4 each, increase cost. Let Grey Hunters choose between bolter or CCW/BP.

Reduce the price of TWC. Reduce Blood Claws to 12 PPM. Reduce the cost of Skyclaws.

Give Logan 4 wounds to put him in line with other Chapter Masters.

Add suitably Wolfy relics (although you already have Sagas filling the same sort of role, something that no one else gets either...).

There's not that many suggestions to be made, because Space Wolves are mostly already better than the other Marine Codices, you just refuse to see it.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
To all the people whining about how Space Wolves should be nerfed... can you actually offer some suggestions? All I seem to be reading is whinging, can we get some actual suggestions?

Here's a few suggestion: Remove the 4+ denial on Rune Weapons, give Rune Priests a Psychic Hood (let Njal keep the denial, possibly with a drop to 5+). Drop Prices to same level as everyone else. Limit Long Fang weapons to 4 each, increase cost. Let Grey Hunters choose between bolter or CCW/BP.

Reduce the price of TWC. Reduce Blood Claws to 12 PPM. Reduce the cost of Skyclaws.

Give Logan 4 wounds to put him in line with other Chapter Masters.

Add suitably Wolfy relics (although you already have Sagas filling the same sort of role, something that no one else gets either...).

There's not that many suggestions to be made, because Space Wolves are mostly already better than the other Marine Codices, you just refuse to see it.

I agree on everything except the long fangs point. Let them have their 5 weapons ... they dont get additional wounds for them. Instead take away fire control and give them split fire. So only one weapon split firing after a morale check as opposed to "do what ya want" like it is now. An additional slight points increase would be warranted.

My suggestion woukd be to tell the whiners to jog on.

The only thing we have geuinely wanted is something to deal with airccraft as we have NOTHING to really handle it.

Space Wolves have drawbacks the same as every other SM chapter, just in different areas.

I am sick of reading page after page of the same stuff moan moan... If you really hate Space Wolves that much, go find
another thread to post on instead of repeating yourself over and over...

Either that or post something other than nerf nerf nerf

i dont play mine competitively and I get hammered a lot but I play to enjoy it, for me its the model buikding and sometimes painting, so I want updated models of the characters such as ragnar, Logan and Bjorn, maybe a Bran Redmaw.

So if folks want to keep the moaning and bi*****g going, jog on to another thread or do it via pm.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
you just refuse to see it.

You might be referring to other people, but I'm actually mostly satisfied with the Space Wolves current codex other than the fact Blood Claws being not really worth while, the Fast Attack section needing a bit of balancing, Long Fangs need to be balanced relative to other Heavy Support options, and I think TWC are stupid.

We are stuck with TWC now unfortunately. I think it would have been better if GW added Thunderwolves but not as cavalry, just have them as monsters that maybe have some special rule to show they are slightly uncontrollable.

Less Wolf Fanged Wolf Lord of the Wolfhunt with Wolf Axe of the Fangwolf's Claw, for which one purchases a Wolfpelt, Wolffail, Wolftongue, and Wolfleather padding for their Wolfpower Wolfarmour while riding their Wolfy Wolf McThunderwolf Wolf Pack of Wolves.

Also female Space Wolves just because I would giggle maniacally at the response on this forum if that were to happen.

 dantay_xv wrote:

I am sick of reading page after page of the same stuff moan moan... If you really hate Space Wolves that much, go find
another thread to post on instead of repeating yourself over and over...

No one's forcing you to read anything.