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2014/02/25 22:42:44
Subject: What of you want from the Space Wolves 6th Edition Codex?
Bobbing along on the briny North Sea, and Montrose, Scotland when home
I agree, the only time to put so many dreads in 1 place would be a monster apoc game, again take battle of the fang for instance.
Competitively it woud be suicide to take so many dreads with little else.
Apart from that it would be priceless to see you oppo's face though as a wave of dreads swept into him (or her)
Kanluwen wrote: What's that quote from Mauleed? "When you can make complete strangers on the Internet hate you, you know you're doing something magical."?
Hatemonger wrote: If that is true, then GW must be run by Gandalf and Nagash and Harry Potter and Tinker Bell, because this site alone is crapping rainbows worth of magical internet nerdrage.
- H8
Anpu42 wrote: Space Wolves have always been an "Elite" Army.
Yes we want a lot of customization and we are willing to pay for it both with cash and points. Look at the Wolf Guard, most of us “Fluffy” Space Wolf players don’t complain that a Wolf Guard Terminator pays 63 points to get a Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield; we just pay the cost an move on. We also are more concerned about how cool it looks more than how efficient it is.
The “Competitive Player” usually does not complain about the price, but just chooses not to take the “Expensive” Toys.
You will see the difference with the list building.
>”Competitive Players” are going to take Rune Priest, Grey Hunters and Long Fangs or Thunderwolf Cavalry [though I think TWC has dropped in usage as 6th move along]
>”Fluffy Players” still take the above, but we also take Blood Claws of all types, Lone Wolves and Lots of Special Characters.
Yes Points do become the issue and a balance with the “Fluffy Players”. It can also be for the competitive Player.
Lets assume they we get a Dreadnaught that can take a Frost Axe and a Storm Shield with the current Price.
That would be 140 points without anything else. it no long has shooting so new we have to add a Drop Pod, now 175 points. if you want to be able to hit things in melee on a 3+, that is a Wolf Tooth Necklace or Venerable, taking the cheaper we are now 185 points [225 as a Venerable].
On the table no mater how you do it can not make a single Attack until Turn 2 Minimum for a model that can be killed by a single shot if you failed your save vs. a S7 Weapon or taken out by weight of fire from S6 Weapons just like any Storm Shield Armed Terminator. You can also tie it up for a turn or two with 10 conscripts lead by a Priest for a turn.
All of this for 3 S8 AP2 Attacks a Turn.
You say 'we' as if every single Space Wolf player ever is exactly like you, don't paint with such broad strokes.
Also, yes 3 S8 AP2 attacks per turn... With a 3+ Invuln save (better than any vehicle in the game as far as I know), with 3 Hull Points.
And yes it can bet killed by a single shot with a S7 weapon, but that is very, very, very unlikely.
And, great. It can be tied up by 10 conscripts, just like every other MC/walker ever. You state the weaknesses of this as if they're specific to you when they're specific to the unit type. It's like saying 'oh yes my horde dies to flamers'. Unlike every other horde. And you also don't seem to want to recognize the strengths of the unit, maybe you think if you play it up to be bad then it'll be more acceptable.
No. Just no, seriously. Most things can't make an attack until Turn 2 anyway, unless you have serious ranged firepower, and it still has a 3+ invuln and hits on a 3+ in melee, which is better than any other dreadnought, even Bjorn himself.
You're also forgetting to remove the cost of the Power Fist and Multimelta he comes with, which is about 25pts. So we're talking 160pts for a 3+ invuln, 3 HP walker with 3 attacks that hits on Strength 8 AP2 (I forget what other effect the Frost Axe has). And that's with it in a drop pod.
dantay_xv wrote: I agree, the only time to put so many dreads in 1 place would be a monster apoc game, again take battle of the fang for instance.
Competitively it woud be suicide to take so many dreads with little else.
Apart from that it would be priceless to see you oppo's face though as a wave of dreads swept into him (or her)
We did that with a Spearhead game once, one guy feilded like 9 of them. It was fun to watch the ork Player's face as I feilded two Sternguards loaded on Land Raiders.
dantay_xv wrote: Because I thought he was considering an all dreadnought army, like the lists you were linking?
Well I would love to do that, that does not feel compleatly right. Having someone like a MotF that allow you to take them as Elites or Heavys would be nice.
These were being used as examples to improve current Dreadnoughts. Disregard any fluff/other stuff you may find in there.
Anpu42 wrote: Space Wolves have always been an "Elite" Army.
Yes we want a lot of customization and we are willing to pay for it both with cash and points. Look at the Wolf Guard, most of us “Fluffy” Space Wolf players don’t complain that a Wolf Guard Terminator pays 63 points to get a Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield; we just pay the cost an move on. We also are more concerned about how cool it looks more than how efficient it is.
The “Competitive Player” usually does not complain about the price, but just chooses not to take the “Expensive” Toys.
You will see the difference with the list building.
>”Competitive Players” are going to take Rune Priest, Grey Hunters and Long Fangs or Thunderwolf Cavalry [though I think TWC has dropped in usage as 6th move along]
>”Fluffy Players” still take the above, but we also take Blood Claws of all types, Lone Wolves and Lots of Special Characters.
Yes Points do become the issue and a balance with the “Fluffy Players”. It can also be for the competitive Player.
Lets assume they we get a Dreadnaught that can take a Frost Axe and a Storm Shield with the current Price.
That would be 140 points without anything else. it no long has shooting so new we have to add a Drop Pod, now 175 points. if you want to be able to hit things in melee on a 3+, that is a Wolf Tooth Necklace or Venerable, taking the cheaper we are now 185 points [225 as a Venerable].
On the table no mater how you do it can not make a single Attack until Turn 2 Minimum for a model that can be killed by a single shot if you failed your save vs. a S7 Weapon or taken out by weight of fire from S6 Weapons just like any Storm Shield Armed Terminator. You can also tie it up for a turn or two with 10 conscripts lead by a Priest for a turn.
All of this for 3 S8 AP2 Attacks a Turn.
You say 'we' as if every single Space Wolf player ever is exactly like you, don't paint with such broad strokes.
Also, yes 3 S8 AP2 attacks per turn... With a 3+ Invuln save (better than any vehicle in the game as far as I know), with 3 Hull Points.
And yes it can bet killed by a single shot with a S7 weapon, but that is very, very, very unlikely.
And, great. It can be tied up by 10 conscripts, just like every other MC/walker ever. You state the weaknesses of this as if they're specific to you when they're specific to the unit type. It's like saying 'oh yes my horde dies to flamers'. Unlike every other horde. And you also don't seem to want to recognize the strengths of the unit, maybe you think if you play it up to be bad then it'll be more acceptable.
No. Just no, seriously. Most things can't make an attack until Turn 2 anyway, unless you have serious ranged firepower, and it still has a 3+ invuln and hits on a 3+ in melee, which is better than any other dreadnought, even Bjorn himself.
You're also forgetting to remove the cost of the Power Fist and Multimelta he comes with, which is about 25pts. So we're talking 160pts for a 3+ invuln, 3 HP walker with 3 attacks that hits on Strength 8 AP2 (I forget what other effect the Frost Axe has). And that's with it in a drop pod.
What I used wat the Wolf Guard Weapon upgrade points cost, and unless they make replaceing the weapons for free seemd resonable.
The point I was trying to make is that it would noe be Efficiant to make it. Yes a 3++ on a Vehicle would be nasy, but not unbeatble.
I would rather have this as an option rather than a MC or Mini Knight.
Anpu42 wrote: Space Wolves have always been an "Elite" Army.
Yes we want a lot of customization and we are willing to pay for it both with cash and points. Look at the Wolf Guard, most of us “Fluffy” Space Wolf players don’t complain that a Wolf Guard Terminator pays 63 points to get a Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield; we just pay the cost an move on. We also are more concerned about how cool it looks more than how efficient it is.
The “Competitive Player” usually does not complain about the price, but just chooses not to take the “Expensive” Toys.
You will see the difference with the list building.
>”Competitive Players” are going to take Rune Priest, Grey Hunters and Long Fangs or Thunderwolf Cavalry [though I think TWC has dropped in usage as 6th move along]
>”Fluffy Players” still take the above, but we also take Blood Claws of all types, Lone Wolves and Lots of Special Characters.
Yes Points do become the issue and a balance with the “Fluffy Players”. It can also be for the competitive Player.
Lets assume they we get a Dreadnaught that can take a Frost Axe and a Storm Shield with the current Price.
That would be 140 points without anything else. it no long has shooting so new we have to add a Drop Pod, now 175 points. if you want to be able to hit things in melee on a 3+, that is a Wolf Tooth Necklace or Venerable, taking the cheaper we are now 185 points [225 as a Venerable].
On the table no mater how you do it can not make a single Attack until Turn 2 Minimum for a model that can be killed by a single shot if you failed your save vs. a S7 Weapon or taken out by weight of fire from S6 Weapons just like any Storm Shield Armed Terminator. You can also tie it up for a turn or two with 10 conscripts lead by a Priest for a turn.
All of this for 3 S8 AP2 Attacks a Turn.
You say 'we' as if every single Space Wolf player ever is exactly like you, don't paint with such broad strokes.
Also, yes 3 S8 AP2 attacks per turn... With a 3+ Invuln save (better than any vehicle in the game as far as I know), with 3 Hull Points.
And yes it can bet killed by a single shot with a S7 weapon, but that is very, very, very unlikely.
And, great. It can be tied up by 10 conscripts, just like every other MC/walker ever. You state the weaknesses of this as if they're specific to you when they're specific to the unit type. It's like saying 'oh yes my horde dies to flamers'. Unlike every other horde. And you also don't seem to want to recognize the strengths of the unit, maybe you think if you play it up to be bad then it'll be more acceptable.
No. Just no, seriously. Most things can't make an attack until Turn 2 anyway, unless you have serious ranged firepower, and it still has a 3+ invuln and hits on a 3+ in melee, which is better than any other dreadnought, even Bjorn himself.
You're also forgetting to remove the cost of the Power Fist and Multimelta he comes with, which is about 25pts. So we're talking 160pts for a 3+ invuln, 3 HP walker with 3 attacks that hits on Strength 8 AP2 (I forget what other effect the Frost Axe has). And that's with it in a drop pod.
What I used wat the Wolf Guard Weapon upgrade points cost, and unless they make replaceing the weapons for free seemd resonable.
The point I was trying to make is that it would noe be Efficiant to make it. Yes a 3++ on a Vehicle would be nasy, but not unbeatble.
I would rather have this as an option rather than a MC or Mini Knight.
People would just take Storm Shield and a Dreadnought CCW and go and kick ass. Considering people take Dreads anyway, the Storm Shield would only take them into the realm of borderline overpowered.
And, good for you. Space Marines don't get MCs (DA, BA, SW, BT AND SMs not GK) so you can rely on that one, and I doubt you'll get a Mini Knight. GK already have one of those.
You'll mostly likely receive some sort of new infantry kit, not that you need it. Maybe a flyer.
Anpu42 wrote: Space Wolves have always been an "Elite" Army.
Yes we want a lot of customization and we are willing to pay for it both with cash and points. Look at the Wolf Guard, most of us “Fluffy” Space Wolf players don’t complain that a Wolf Guard Terminator pays 63 points to get a Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield; we just pay the cost an move on. We also are more concerned about how cool it looks more than how efficient it is.
The “Competitive Player” usually does not complain about the price, but just chooses not to take the “Expensive” Toys.
You will see the difference with the list building.
>”Competitive Players” are going to take Rune Priest, Grey Hunters and Long Fangs or Thunderwolf Cavalry [though I think TWC has dropped in usage as 6th move along]
>”Fluffy Players” still take the above, but we also take Blood Claws of all types, Lone Wolves and Lots of Special Characters.
Yes Points do become the issue and a balance with the “Fluffy Players”. It can also be for the competitive Player.
Lets assume they we get a Dreadnaught that can take a Frost Axe and a Storm Shield with the current Price.
That would be 140 points without anything else. it no long has shooting so new we have to add a Drop Pod, now 175 points. if you want to be able to hit things in melee on a 3+, that is a Wolf Tooth Necklace or Venerable, taking the cheaper we are now 185 points [225 as a Venerable].
On the table no mater how you do it can not make a single Attack until Turn 2 Minimum for a model that can be killed by a single shot if you failed your save vs. a S7 Weapon or taken out by weight of fire from S6 Weapons just like any Storm Shield Armed Terminator. You can also tie it up for a turn or two with 10 conscripts lead by a Priest for a turn.
All of this for 3 S8 AP2 Attacks a Turn.
You say 'we' as if every single Space Wolf player ever is exactly like you, don't paint with such broad strokes.
Also, yes 3 S8 AP2 attacks per turn... With a 3+ Invuln save (better than any vehicle in the game as far as I know), with 3 Hull Points.
And yes it can bet killed by a single shot with a S7 weapon, but that is very, very, very unlikely.
And, great. It can be tied up by 10 conscripts, just like every other MC/walker ever. You state the weaknesses of this as if they're specific to you when they're specific to the unit type. It's like saying 'oh yes my horde dies to flamers'. Unlike every other horde. And you also don't seem to want to recognize the strengths of the unit, maybe you think if you play it up to be bad then it'll be more acceptable.
No. Just no, seriously. Most things can't make an attack until Turn 2 anyway, unless you have serious ranged firepower, and it still has a 3+ invuln and hits on a 3+ in melee, which is better than any other dreadnought, even Bjorn himself.
You're also forgetting to remove the cost of the Power Fist and Multimelta he comes with, which is about 25pts. So we're talking 160pts for a 3+ invuln, 3 HP walker with 3 attacks that hits on Strength 8 AP2 (I forget what other effect the Frost Axe has). And that's with it in a drop pod.
What I used wat the Wolf Guard Weapon upgrade points cost, and unless they make replaceing the weapons for free seemd resonable.
The point I was trying to make is that it would noe be Efficiant to make it. Yes a 3++ on a Vehicle would be nasy, but not unbeatble.
I would rather have this as an option rather than a MC or Mini Knight.
People would just take Storm Shield and a Dreadnought CCW and go and kick ass. Considering people take Dreads anyway, the Storm Shield would only take them into the realm of borderline overpowered.
And, good for you. Space Marines don't get MCs (DA, BA, SW, BT AND SMs not GK) so you can rely on that one, and I doubt you'll get a Mini Knight. GK already have one of those.
You'll mostly likely receive some sort of new infantry kit, not that you need it. Maybe a flyer.
Well either that or make that options for Assualt Centrurions if we get them
Anpu42 wrote: Space Wolves have always been an "Elite" Army.
Yes we want a lot of customization and we are willing to pay for it both with cash and points. Look at the Wolf Guard, most of us “Fluffy” Space Wolf players don’t complain that a Wolf Guard Terminator pays 63 points to get a Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield; we just pay the cost an move on. We also are more concerned about how cool it looks more than how efficient it is.
The “Competitive Player” usually does not complain about the price, but just chooses not to take the “Expensive” Toys.
You will see the difference with the list building.
>”Competitive Players” are going to take Rune Priest, Grey Hunters and Long Fangs or Thunderwolf Cavalry [though I think TWC has dropped in usage as 6th move along]
>”Fluffy Players” still take the above, but we also take Blood Claws of all types, Lone Wolves and Lots of Special Characters.
Yes Points do become the issue and a balance with the “Fluffy Players”. It can also be for the competitive Player.
Lets assume they we get a Dreadnaught that can take a Frost Axe and a Storm Shield with the current Price.
That would be 140 points without anything else. it no long has shooting so new we have to add a Drop Pod, now 175 points. if you want to be able to hit things in melee on a 3+, that is a Wolf Tooth Necklace or Venerable, taking the cheaper we are now 185 points [225 as a Venerable].
On the table no mater how you do it can not make a single Attack until Turn 2 Minimum for a model that can be killed by a single shot if you failed your save vs. a S7 Weapon or taken out by weight of fire from S6 Weapons just like any Storm Shield Armed Terminator. You can also tie it up for a turn or two with 10 conscripts lead by a Priest for a turn.
All of this for 3 S8 AP2 Attacks a Turn.
You say 'we' as if every single Space Wolf player ever is exactly like you, don't paint with such broad strokes.
Also, yes 3 S8 AP2 attacks per turn... With a 3+ Invuln save (better than any vehicle in the game as far as I know), with 3 Hull Points.
And yes it can bet killed by a single shot with a S7 weapon, but that is very, very, very unlikely.
And, great. It can be tied up by 10 conscripts, just like every other MC/walker ever. You state the weaknesses of this as if they're specific to you when they're specific to the unit type. It's like saying 'oh yes my horde dies to flamers'. Unlike every other horde. And you also don't seem to want to recognize the strengths of the unit, maybe you think if you play it up to be bad then it'll be more acceptable.
No. Just no, seriously. Most things can't make an attack until Turn 2 anyway, unless you have serious ranged firepower, and it still has a 3+ invuln and hits on a 3+ in melee, which is better than any other dreadnought, even Bjorn himself.
You're also forgetting to remove the cost of the Power Fist and Multimelta he comes with, which is about 25pts. So we're talking 160pts for a 3+ invuln, 3 HP walker with 3 attacks that hits on Strength 8 AP2 (I forget what other effect the Frost Axe has). And that's with it in a drop pod.
What I used wat the Wolf Guard Weapon upgrade points cost, and unless they make replaceing the weapons for free seemd resonable.
The point I was trying to make is that it would noe be Efficiant to make it. Yes a 3++ on a Vehicle would be nasy, but not unbeatble.
I would rather have this as an option rather than a MC or Mini Knight.
People would just take Storm Shield and a Dreadnought CCW and go and kick ass. Considering people take Dreads anyway, the Storm Shield would only take them into the realm of borderline overpowered.
And, good for you. Space Marines don't get MCs (DA, BA, SW, BT AND SMs not GK) so you can rely on that one, and I doubt you'll get a Mini Knight. GK already have one of those.
You'll mostly likely receive some sort of new infantry kit, not that you need it. Maybe a flyer.
Well either that or make that options for Assualt Centrurions if we get them
Why would you ever do that.
They're just.. Bad. Taking Storm Shields and Frost Axes won't improve how crap they are at getting across the board, and it won't improve the lack of attacks they get.
Anpu42 wrote: Space Wolves have always been an "Elite" Army.
Yes we want a lot of customization and we are willing to pay for it both with cash and points. Look at the Wolf Guard, most of us “Fluffy” Space Wolf players don’t complain that a Wolf Guard Terminator pays 63 points to get a Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield; we just pay the cost an move on. We also are more concerned about how cool it looks more than how efficient it is.
The “Competitive Player” usually does not complain about the price, but just chooses not to take the “Expensive” Toys.
You will see the difference with the list building.
>”Competitive Players” are going to take Rune Priest, Grey Hunters and Long Fangs or Thunderwolf Cavalry [though I think TWC has dropped in usage as 6th move along]
>”Fluffy Players” still take the above, but we also take Blood Claws of all types, Lone Wolves and Lots of Special Characters.
Yes Points do become the issue and a balance with the “Fluffy Players”. It can also be for the competitive Player.
Lets assume they we get a Dreadnaught that can take a Frost Axe and a Storm Shield with the current Price.
That would be 140 points without anything else. it no long has shooting so new we have to add a Drop Pod, now 175 points. if you want to be able to hit things in melee on a 3+, that is a Wolf Tooth Necklace or Venerable, taking the cheaper we are now 185 points [225 as a Venerable].
On the table no mater how you do it can not make a single Attack until Turn 2 Minimum for a model that can be killed by a single shot if you failed your save vs. a S7 Weapon or taken out by weight of fire from S6 Weapons just like any Storm Shield Armed Terminator. You can also tie it up for a turn or two with 10 conscripts lead by a Priest for a turn.
All of this for 3 S8 AP2 Attacks a Turn.
You say 'we' as if every single Space Wolf player ever is exactly like you, don't paint with such broad strokes.
Also, yes 3 S8 AP2 attacks per turn... With a 3+ Invuln save (better than any vehicle in the game as far as I know), with 3 Hull Points.
And yes it can bet killed by a single shot with a S7 weapon, but that is very, very, very unlikely.
And, great. It can be tied up by 10 conscripts, just like every other MC/walker ever. You state the weaknesses of this as if they're specific to you when they're specific to the unit type. It's like saying 'oh yes my horde dies to flamers'. Unlike every other horde. And you also don't seem to want to recognize the strengths of the unit, maybe you think if you play it up to be bad then it'll be more acceptable.
No. Just no, seriously. Most things can't make an attack until Turn 2 anyway, unless you have serious ranged firepower, and it still has a 3+ invuln and hits on a 3+ in melee, which is better than any other dreadnought, even Bjorn himself.
You're also forgetting to remove the cost of the Power Fist and Multimelta he comes with, which is about 25pts. So we're talking 160pts for a 3+ invuln, 3 HP walker with 3 attacks that hits on Strength 8 AP2 (I forget what other effect the Frost Axe has). And that's with it in a drop pod.
What I used wat the Wolf Guard Weapon upgrade points cost, and unless they make replaceing the weapons for free seemd resonable.
The point I was trying to make is that it would noe be Efficiant to make it. Yes a 3++ on a Vehicle would be nasy, but not unbeatble.
I would rather have this as an option rather than a MC or Mini Knight.
People would just take Storm Shield and a Dreadnought CCW and go and kick ass. Considering people take Dreads anyway, the Storm Shield would only take them into the realm of borderline overpowered.
And, good for you. Space Marines don't get MCs (DA, BA, SW, BT AND SMs not GK) so you can rely on that one, and I doubt you'll get a Mini Knight. GK already have one of those.
You'll mostly likely receive some sort of new infantry kit, not that you need it. Maybe a flyer.
Well either that or make that options for Assualt Centrurions if we get them
Why would you ever do that.
They're just.. Bad. Taking Storm Shields and Frost Axes won't improve how crap they are at getting across the board, and it won't improve the lack of attacks they get.
Because they would look cool on the table top.
Also adding Logan to the mix you can give them Relentless letting any of them with Ranged Weapons Overwatch Fire.
Anpu42 wrote: Space Wolves have always been an "Elite" Army.
Yes we want a lot of customization and we are willing to pay for it both with cash and points. Look at the Wolf Guard, most of us “Fluffy” Space Wolf players don’t complain that a Wolf Guard Terminator pays 63 points to get a Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield; we just pay the cost an move on. We also are more concerned about how cool it looks more than how efficient it is.
The “Competitive Player” usually does not complain about the price, but just chooses not to take the “Expensive” Toys.
You will see the difference with the list building.
>”Competitive Players” are going to take Rune Priest, Grey Hunters and Long Fangs or Thunderwolf Cavalry [though I think TWC has dropped in usage as 6th move along]
>”Fluffy Players” still take the above, but we also take Blood Claws of all types, Lone Wolves and Lots of Special Characters.
Yes Points do become the issue and a balance with the “Fluffy Players”. It can also be for the competitive Player.
Lets assume they we get a Dreadnaught that can take a Frost Axe and a Storm Shield with the current Price.
That would be 140 points without anything else. it no long has shooting so new we have to add a Drop Pod, now 175 points. if you want to be able to hit things in melee on a 3+, that is a Wolf Tooth Necklace or Venerable, taking the cheaper we are now 185 points [225 as a Venerable].
On the table no mater how you do it can not make a single Attack until Turn 2 Minimum for a model that can be killed by a single shot if you failed your save vs. a S7 Weapon or taken out by weight of fire from S6 Weapons just like any Storm Shield Armed Terminator. You can also tie it up for a turn or two with 10 conscripts lead by a Priest for a turn.
All of this for 3 S8 AP2 Attacks a Turn.
You say 'we' as if every single Space Wolf player ever is exactly like you, don't paint with such broad strokes.
Also, yes 3 S8 AP2 attacks per turn... With a 3+ Invuln save (better than any vehicle in the game as far as I know), with 3 Hull Points.
And yes it can bet killed by a single shot with a S7 weapon, but that is very, very, very unlikely.
And, great. It can be tied up by 10 conscripts, just like every other MC/walker ever. You state the weaknesses of this as if they're specific to you when they're specific to the unit type. It's like saying 'oh yes my horde dies to flamers'. Unlike every other horde. And you also don't seem to want to recognize the strengths of the unit, maybe you think if you play it up to be bad then it'll be more acceptable.
No. Just no, seriously. Most things can't make an attack until Turn 2 anyway, unless you have serious ranged firepower, and it still has a 3+ invuln and hits on a 3+ in melee, which is better than any other dreadnought, even Bjorn himself.
You're also forgetting to remove the cost of the Power Fist and Multimelta he comes with, which is about 25pts. So we're talking 160pts for a 3+ invuln, 3 HP walker with 3 attacks that hits on Strength 8 AP2 (I forget what other effect the Frost Axe has). And that's with it in a drop pod.
What I used wat the Wolf Guard Weapon upgrade points cost, and unless they make replaceing the weapons for free seemd resonable.
The point I was trying to make is that it would noe be Efficiant to make it. Yes a 3++ on a Vehicle would be nasy, but not unbeatble.
I would rather have this as an option rather than a MC or Mini Knight.
People would just take Storm Shield and a Dreadnought CCW and go and kick ass. Considering people take Dreads anyway, the Storm Shield would only take them into the realm of borderline overpowered.
And, good for you. Space Marines don't get MCs (DA, BA, SW, BT AND SMs not GK) so you can rely on that one, and I doubt you'll get a Mini Knight. GK already have one of those.
You'll mostly likely receive some sort of new infantry kit, not that you need it. Maybe a flyer.
Well either that or make that options for Assualt Centrurions if we get them
Why would you ever do that.
They're just.. Bad. Taking Storm Shields and Frost Axes won't improve how crap they are at getting across the board, and it won't improve the lack of attacks they get.
Because they would look cool on the table top.
Also adding Logan to the mix you can give them Relentless letting any of them with Ranged Weapons Overwatch Fire.
They'd still be Slow and Purposeful, so no.
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
2014/02/25 23:22:03
Subject: What of you want from the Space Wolves 6th Edition Codex?
Anpu42 wrote: Space Wolves have always been an "Elite" Army.
Yes we want a lot of customization and we are willing to pay for it both with cash and points. Look at the Wolf Guard, most of us “Fluffy” Space Wolf players don’t complain that a Wolf Guard Terminator pays 63 points to get a Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield; we just pay the cost an move on. We also are more concerned about how cool it looks more than how efficient it is.
The “Competitive Player” usually does not complain about the price, but just chooses not to take the “Expensive” Toys.
You will see the difference with the list building.
>”Competitive Players” are going to take Rune Priest, Grey Hunters and Long Fangs or Thunderwolf Cavalry [though I think TWC has dropped in usage as 6th move along]
>”Fluffy Players” still take the above, but we also take Blood Claws of all types, Lone Wolves and Lots of Special Characters.
Yes Points do become the issue and a balance with the “Fluffy Players”. It can also be for the competitive Player.
Lets assume they we get a Dreadnaught that can take a Frost Axe and a Storm Shield with the current Price.
That would be 140 points without anything else. it no long has shooting so new we have to add a Drop Pod, now 175 points. if you want to be able to hit things in melee on a 3+, that is a Wolf Tooth Necklace or Venerable, taking the cheaper we are now 185 points [225 as a Venerable].
On the table no mater how you do it can not make a single Attack until Turn 2 Minimum for a model that can be killed by a single shot if you failed your save vs. a S7 Weapon or taken out by weight of fire from S6 Weapons just like any Storm Shield Armed Terminator. You can also tie it up for a turn or two with 10 conscripts lead by a Priest for a turn.
All of this for 3 S8 AP2 Attacks a Turn.
You say 'we' as if every single Space Wolf player ever is exactly like you, don't paint with such broad strokes.
Also, yes 3 S8 AP2 attacks per turn... With a 3+ Invuln save (better than any vehicle in the game as far as I know), with 3 Hull Points.
And yes it can bet killed by a single shot with a S7 weapon, but that is very, very, very unlikely.
And, great. It can be tied up by 10 conscripts, just like every other MC/walker ever. You state the weaknesses of this as if they're specific to you when they're specific to the unit type. It's like saying 'oh yes my horde dies to flamers'. Unlike every other horde. And you also don't seem to want to recognize the strengths of the unit, maybe you think if you play it up to be bad then it'll be more acceptable.
No. Just no, seriously. Most things can't make an attack until Turn 2 anyway, unless you have serious ranged firepower, and it still has a 3+ invuln and hits on a 3+ in melee, which is better than any other dreadnought, even Bjorn himself.
You're also forgetting to remove the cost of the Power Fist and Multimelta he comes with, which is about 25pts. So we're talking 160pts for a 3+ invuln, 3 HP walker with 3 attacks that hits on Strength 8 AP2 (I forget what other effect the Frost Axe has). And that's with it in a drop pod.
What I used wat the Wolf Guard Weapon upgrade points cost, and unless they make replaceing the weapons for free seemd resonable.
The point I was trying to make is that it would noe be Efficiant to make it. Yes a 3++ on a Vehicle would be nasy, but not unbeatble.
I would rather have this as an option rather than a MC or Mini Knight.
People would just take Storm Shield and a Dreadnought CCW and go and kick ass. Considering people take Dreads anyway, the Storm Shield would only take them into the realm of borderline overpowered.
And, good for you. Space Marines don't get MCs (DA, BA, SW, BT AND SMs not GK) so you can rely on that one, and I doubt you'll get a Mini Knight. GK already have one of those.
You'll mostly likely receive some sort of new infantry kit, not that you need it. Maybe a flyer.
Well either that or make that options for Assualt Centrurions if we get them
Why would you ever do that.
They're just.. Bad. Taking Storm Shields and Frost Axes won't improve how crap they are at getting across the board, and it won't improve the lack of attacks they get.
Because they would look cool on the table top.
Also adding Logan to the mix you can give them Relentless letting any of them with Ranged Weapons Overwatch Fire.
They'd still be Slow and Purposeful, so no.
They're also Assault Centurions. They don't come with ranged weapons, they come with Siege Drills.
I don't like how you say you could take a unit because it looks cool, as it wouldn't actually even look good. Baby blue, static half-dreadnoughts with tiny thunder hammers and storm shields with yellow and red decals...
No thanks.
Anpu42 wrote: Space Wolves have always been an "Elite" Army.
Yes we want a lot of customization and we are willing to pay for it both with cash and points. Look at the Wolf Guard, most of us “Fluffy” Space Wolf players don’t complain that a Wolf Guard Terminator pays 63 points to get a Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield; we just pay the cost an move on. We also are more concerned about how cool it looks more than how efficient it is.
The “Competitive Player” usually does not complain about the price, but just chooses not to take the “Expensive” Toys.
You will see the difference with the list building.
>”Competitive Players” are going to take Rune Priest, Grey Hunters and Long Fangs or Thunderwolf Cavalry [though I think TWC has dropped in usage as 6th move along]
>”Fluffy Players” still take the above, but we also take Blood Claws of all types, Lone Wolves and Lots of Special Characters.
Yes Points do become the issue and a balance with the “Fluffy Players”. It can also be for the competitive Player.
Lets assume they we get a Dreadnaught that can take a Frost Axe and a Storm Shield with the current Price.
That would be 140 points without anything else. it no long has shooting so new we have to add a Drop Pod, now 175 points. if you want to be able to hit things in melee on a 3+, that is a Wolf Tooth Necklace or Venerable, taking the cheaper we are now 185 points [225 as a Venerable].
On the table no mater how you do it can not make a single Attack until Turn 2 Minimum for a model that can be killed by a single shot if you failed your save vs. a S7 Weapon or taken out by weight of fire from S6 Weapons just like any Storm Shield Armed Terminator. You can also tie it up for a turn or two with 10 conscripts lead by a Priest for a turn.
All of this for 3 S8 AP2 Attacks a Turn.
You say 'we' as if every single Space Wolf player ever is exactly like you, don't paint with such broad strokes.
Also, yes 3 S8 AP2 attacks per turn... With a 3+ Invuln save (better than any vehicle in the game as far as I know), with 3 Hull Points.
And yes it can bet killed by a single shot with a S7 weapon, but that is very, very, very unlikely.
And, great. It can be tied up by 10 conscripts, just like every other MC/walker ever. You state the weaknesses of this as if they're specific to you when they're specific to the unit type. It's like saying 'oh yes my horde dies to flamers'. Unlike every other horde. And you also don't seem to want to recognize the strengths of the unit, maybe you think if you play it up to be bad then it'll be more acceptable.
No. Just no, seriously. Most things can't make an attack until Turn 2 anyway, unless you have serious ranged firepower, and it still has a 3+ invuln and hits on a 3+ in melee, which is better than any other dreadnought, even Bjorn himself.
You're also forgetting to remove the cost of the Power Fist and Multimelta he comes with, which is about 25pts. So we're talking 160pts for a 3+ invuln, 3 HP walker with 3 attacks that hits on Strength 8 AP2 (I forget what other effect the Frost Axe has). And that's with it in a drop pod.
What I used wat the Wolf Guard Weapon upgrade points cost, and unless they make replaceing the weapons for free seemd resonable.
The point I was trying to make is that it would noe be Efficiant to make it. Yes a 3++ on a Vehicle would be nasy, but not unbeatble.
I would rather have this as an option rather than a MC or Mini Knight.
People would just take Storm Shield and a Dreadnought CCW and go and kick ass. Considering people take Dreads anyway, the Storm Shield would only take them into the realm of borderline overpowered.
And, good for you. Space Marines don't get MCs (DA, BA, SW, BT AND SMs not GK) so you can rely on that one, and I doubt you'll get a Mini Knight. GK already have one of those.
You'll mostly likely receive some sort of new infantry kit, not that you need it. Maybe a flyer.
Well either that or make that options for Assualt Centrurions if we get them
Why would you ever do that.
They're just.. Bad. Taking Storm Shields and Frost Axes won't improve how crap they are at getting across the board, and it won't improve the lack of attacks they get.
Because they would look cool on the table top.
Also adding Logan to the mix you can give them Relentless letting any of them with Ranged Weapons Overwatch Fire.
They'd still be Slow and Purposeful, so no.
They're also Assault Centurions. They don't come with ranged weapons, they come with Siege Drills.
I don't like how you say you could take a unit because it looks cool, as it wouldn't actually even look good. Baby blue, static half-dreadnoughts with tiny thunder hammers and storm shields with yellow and red decals...
No thanks.
Still have meltas/flamers and bolters, and "cool-looking" is a subjective term.
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
2014/02/25 23:27:01
Subject: What of you want from the Space Wolves 6th Edition Codex?
Well either that or make that options for Assault Centurions if we get them
Why would you ever do that.
They're just.. Bad. Taking Storm Shields and Frost Axes won't improve how crap they are at getting across the board, and it won't improve the lack of attacks they get.
Because they would look cool on the table top.
Also adding Logan to the mix you can give them Relentless letting any of them with Ranged Weapons Overwatch Fire.
They'd still be Slow and Purposeful, so no.
Yes you are right [Heresy on Dakka, I agreed with someone about a ruling]
Just read the Rule again, it is one of those wording things and it of been nice if you said so rather than just No.
Anpu42 wrote: Space Wolves have always been an "Elite" Army.
Yes we want a lot of customization and we are willing to pay for it both with cash and points. Look at the Wolf Guard, most of us “Fluffy” Space Wolf players don’t complain that a Wolf Guard Terminator pays 63 points to get a Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield; we just pay the cost an move on. We also are more concerned about how cool it looks more than how efficient it is.
The “Competitive Player” usually does not complain about the price, but just chooses not to take the “Expensive” Toys.
You will see the difference with the list building.
>”Competitive Players” are going to take Rune Priest, Grey Hunters and Long Fangs or Thunderwolf Cavalry [though I think TWC has dropped in usage as 6th move along]
>”Fluffy Players” still take the above, but we also take Blood Claws of all types, Lone Wolves and Lots of Special Characters.
Yes Points do become the issue and a balance with the “Fluffy Players”. It can also be for the competitive Player.
Lets assume they we get a Dreadnaught that can take a Frost Axe and a Storm Shield with the current Price.
That would be 140 points without anything else. it no long has shooting so new we have to add a Drop Pod, now 175 points. if you want to be able to hit things in melee on a 3+, that is a Wolf Tooth Necklace or Venerable, taking the cheaper we are now 185 points [225 as a Venerable].
On the table no mater how you do it can not make a single Attack until Turn 2 Minimum for a model that can be killed by a single shot if you failed your save vs. a S7 Weapon or taken out by weight of fire from S6 Weapons just like any Storm Shield Armed Terminator. You can also tie it up for a turn or two with 10 conscripts lead by a Priest for a turn.
All of this for 3 S8 AP2 Attacks a Turn.
You say 'we' as if every single Space Wolf player ever is exactly like you, don't paint with such broad strokes.
Also, yes 3 S8 AP2 attacks per turn... With a 3+ Invuln save (better than any vehicle in the game as far as I know), with 3 Hull Points.
And yes it can bet killed by a single shot with a S7 weapon, but that is very, very, very unlikely.
And, great. It can be tied up by 10 conscripts, just like every other MC/walker ever. You state the weaknesses of this as if they're specific to you when they're specific to the unit type. It's like saying 'oh yes my horde dies to flamers'. Unlike every other horde. And you also don't seem to want to recognize the strengths of the unit, maybe you think if you play it up to be bad then it'll be more acceptable.
No. Just no, seriously. Most things can't make an attack until Turn 2 anyway, unless you have serious ranged firepower, and it still has a 3+ invuln and hits on a 3+ in melee, which is better than any other dreadnought, even Bjorn himself.
You're also forgetting to remove the cost of the Power Fist and Multimelta he comes with, which is about 25pts. So we're talking 160pts for a 3+ invuln, 3 HP walker with 3 attacks that hits on Strength 8 AP2 (I forget what other effect the Frost Axe has). And that's with it in a drop pod.
What I used wat the Wolf Guard Weapon upgrade points cost, and unless they make replaceing the weapons for free seemd resonable.
The point I was trying to make is that it would noe be Efficiant to make it. Yes a 3++ on a Vehicle would be nasy, but not unbeatble.
I would rather have this as an option rather than a MC or Mini Knight.
People would just take Storm Shield and a Dreadnought CCW and go and kick ass. Considering people take Dreads anyway, the Storm Shield would only take them into the realm of borderline overpowered.
And, good for you. Space Marines don't get MCs (DA, BA, SW, BT AND SMs not GK) so you can rely on that one, and I doubt you'll get a Mini Knight. GK already have one of those.
You'll mostly likely receive some sort of new infantry kit, not that you need it. Maybe a flyer.
Well either that or make that options for Assualt Centrurions if we get them
Why would you ever do that.
They're just.. Bad. Taking Storm Shields and Frost Axes won't improve how crap they are at getting across the board, and it won't improve the lack of attacks they get.
Because they would look cool on the table top.
Also adding Logan to the mix you can give them Relentless letting any of them with Ranged Weapons Overwatch Fire.
They'd still be Slow and Purposeful, so no.
They're also Assault Centurions. They don't come with ranged weapons, they come with Siege Drills.
I don't like how you say you could take a unit because it looks cool, as it wouldn't actually even look good. Baby blue, static half-dreadnoughts with tiny thunder hammers and storm shields with yellow and red decals...
No thanks.
Still have meltas/flamers and bolters, and "cool-looking" is a subjective term.
Bobbing along on the briny North Sea, and Montrose, Scotland when home
Yeah, cos with counter attack they'd just be centurions +1
Kanluwen wrote: What's that quote from Mauleed? "When you can make complete strangers on the Internet hate you, you know you're doing something magical."?
Hatemonger wrote: If that is true, then GW must be run by Gandalf and Nagash and Harry Potter and Tinker Bell, because this site alone is crapping rainbows worth of magical internet nerdrage.
- H8
They're also Assault Centurions. They don't come with ranged weapons, they come with Siege Drills.
I don't like how you say you could take a unit because it looks cool, as it wouldn't actually even look good. Baby blue, static half-dreadnoughts with tiny thunder hammers and storm shields with yellow and red decals...
No thanks.
Well to me they are cool looking and to me that is what is important. If you don’t think they look cool, that is cool for you.
To each their own.
And mine are either White or Periwinkle, no Baby Blue
Bobbing along on the briny North Sea, and Montrose, Scotland when home
100% agree with Anpu and the rule of cool thing.
You should check out eggrolls BA centurions on his thread, they absolutely rock!!
Kanluwen wrote: What's that quote from Mauleed? "When you can make complete strangers on the Internet hate you, you know you're doing something magical."?
Hatemonger wrote: If that is true, then GW must be run by Gandalf and Nagash and Harry Potter and Tinker Bell, because this site alone is crapping rainbows worth of magical internet nerdrage.
- H8
Actually as for Centurions I have mixed feelings.
>The Modeling Side: Yes, I love the look of them and could easily be made Wolfy
>The Fluff Side: Yes, I can see them being part of the Space Wolves
>The Codex/Rules Side: No, it just does not feel right, that whole copy paste thing.
This will most likely happen, though I don't want to see it for the Grey Hunters unless they git rid of the free 2nd weapon.
- Balancing/Removing the "I WIN!" buttons (like Jaws, and 24" Dispel bubble)
I expext Jaws to vanish or become 2 Charges forcing people to pay 25/50 point to have a chance to get to use it.
Dropping the 24" bubble to 12" would only realy work if they got rid of the double HQ bit. Otherwize people will just double up on the Rune. Priest
The dispel bubble needs to become a bonus to Deny the Witch. Either that or the Rune priest needs to be double the price of a librarian to get that effect. It is completely unhinged atm.
2014/02/26 17:20:57
Subject: What of you want from the Space Wolves 6th Edition Codex?
Bobbing along on the briny North Sea, and Montrose, Scotland when home
I'd like to see a points drop on the Blood Claws OR make them more survivable to get into & get through an assault, a bit like a proper berserker.
Give me a reason to make shields or stick dwarf shields on them and yell Fenrys Hjolda as they charge across the board.
Keep Skyclaws more or less as they are, because I find them a fun unit to play with.
Prepearing to get flamed here, but I would like the Swift Claw bikes to get some sort of jink save or something, to reflect their madcap. berserker.. basically orky mentality towards getting into a scrap.
Kanluwen wrote: What's that quote from Mauleed? "When you can make complete strangers on the Internet hate you, you know you're doing something magical."?
Hatemonger wrote: If that is true, then GW must be run by Gandalf and Nagash and Harry Potter and Tinker Bell, because this site alone is crapping rainbows worth of magical internet nerdrage.
- H8
dantay_xv wrote: I'd like to see a points drop on the Blood Claws OR make them more survivable to get into & get through an assault, a bit like a proper berserker.
Give me a reason to make shields or stick dwarf shields on them and yell Fenrys Hjolda as they charge across the board.
I like the idea of giving them Combat Shields or replacing their Bolt Pistol with a War Shield [5++ Save]
Keep Skyclaws more or less as they are, because I find them a fun unit to play with.
With a Points drop and the ability to take Wolf Guard Pack Leaders
Preparing to get flamed here, but I would like the Swift Claw bikes to get some sort of Jink save or something, to reflect their madcap berserker. Basically Orky mentality towards getting into a scrap.
Giving something a jink save only makes them better against lists that you don't need help against. Tau don't care about your cover, and Eldar will wound spam it, and Daemons are going to either HTH with MCs or spam S5 AP low shots and overwhelm the jink save.
The jink save would best against other meq lists and other lists like DE that would be relying on low AP shots to kill these guys. SW are already overpowering against other meq lists and practically everyone else not in the top tier of codices.
I'm not saying Swift Claws shouldn't have some better incentive to take them, but jink is not the answer.
2014/02/26 18:08:52
Subject: What of you want from the Space Wolves 6th Edition Codex?
Martel732 wrote: Giving something a jink save only makes them better against lists that you don't need help against. Tau don't care about your cover, and Eldar will wound spam it, and Daemons are going to either HTH with MCs or spam S5 AP low shots and overwhelm the jink save.
The jink save would best against other meq lists and other lists like DE that would be relying on low AP shots to kill these guys. SW are already overpowering against other meq lists and practically everyone else not in the top tier of codices.
I'm not saying Swift Claws shouldn't have some better incentive to take them, but jink is not the answer.
Yes you are right, but you are not listening to what we are saying.
1] There is nothing that can be done with the Tau/Eldar Codex’s, that daemon has already been let out of the bottle.
2] That means the fix has to done with new Codex’s like the Blood Angels.
3] We need to stop whining about how good Tau/Eldar are and work on what We can Do About it.
Bobbing along on the briny North Sea, and Montrose, Scotland when home
Okay, Martel. I'll take the bait What do you think should be the incentive?
For me I would like to bulk out Engir Krakendooms company.. I already have 3 swift claw packs, but them having lower than a marines WS and LD 8 sees them getting beat and running away too often to be reliable.
What would you do tomake the Swift Claws more enticing to use, but not OP?
Kanluwen wrote: What's that quote from Mauleed? "When you can make complete strangers on the Internet hate you, you know you're doing something magical."?
Hatemonger wrote: If that is true, then GW must be run by Gandalf and Nagash and Harry Potter and Tinker Bell, because this site alone is crapping rainbows worth of magical internet nerdrage.
- H8
18000+ points
3000+ points
Krieg 6k
Necrons 2.5k
Innocentia Nihil Probat. 
Son of Dorn 
What do you think should be the incentive?