dantay_xv wrote:
I think that the 1 banner per grey hunter squad was way too OP.
Bring it back to 1 banner in a squad per army as was in the older codices.
I also agree that SW, BA, DA, GK codices should not all be SM+1, it should be unique SM, but still at the same level as SM.
So is SW dont get certain things such as centurions etc then I see it as a trade off that SW get something else, or another unit getd amped slightly to compensate. Any buffing of a unit should incur the correct point increase so as not to allow the codex to be abused.
As for saga's, these are an individual warriors story or ability... They shouldnt confer anything army wide, maybe to themselves or to the unit they are in.
Next, unless the next codex changes, codex SW is the only codex wwhich specifies who all the company leaders are and their specific traits and fighting styles for their companies, so company rater than chapter tactics may well apply in this case so people can build unique SW armies.
Motw should apply to bloodclaws ad their troop ttype, probably more so than any other type of unit, as the younger more inexperienced warriors they are still rrying to learn to deal with th the wolf spirit inside them. Case in point is either redpelt or helfist in Battle of the Fang, of which 1 of these 2 bloodclaws succumbs to the wulfen.... Long fangs shouldnt get it, and not so sure greyhunters should either... As they would have grown at peace with the wolf within. Counter attack is their way of allowing the wolf ti the fore without letting it take over completely.... Scouts as loners and outcasts should get MOTW.
Feet on the ground. This is a thing regarding teleporting only and is a part of their uniqueness.. They regard spaceships and speeders as vessels to get to war, like a longship. Jump packs are not viewed favourably because if a wolf was supposed to fly he would have wings...

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:

 Wilytank wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
If you want different Chapter Tactics I suggest you play C:SM. That's kinda the entire point of that book.

Though not entirely on topic, I am getting really tired of people wanting some Chapter Tactics equivalent for an army they play. C:SM got them and all of a sudden everybody wants them. Some Tyranid players wanted Hive fleet rules to go like that even though there's no actual fluff to support why Hive Fleet Bum Sniffer is any different from Hive Fleet Garbage Disposal. The same can be said about Space Wolves. Are the individual Great Companies really important enough for them to warrant them getting their own rules? Not really.

It's kind of interesting. I can easily see the argument for IG, Eldar, CSM, Orks, maybe Sisters of Battle, and ...Necrons possibly? For DE, Nids, BA, SW, GK, etc.... yeah not so much. Heck, I play chaos daemons and I'd raise a brow at DAEMONS TACTICS. I must say though, I would still appreciate if Tau had a force org swap for a stealth suit army but alas seems they didn't want such a thing (or waiting to sell a supplement for it)

Anyways, I gotta ask.... why do you want DA, BA, and SW to all be SM+1? Why? It should never be like this. This undervalues a fan of every chapter that doesn't have their own codex. It should never be that. It should be SM-some stuff+some stuff. Sacrifice a few choices for a few unique options. That's the charm. The charm of those 3 chapters was never supposed to be "yeah we are better than those SM chapters" it was supposed to be "we do _____ differently". DA are the more shooty army with a liking for bikes and, most notably, many terminators. BA are the very fast assault army that descends from the skies and swiftly assaults the enemy, and SW are the ones that ignore the codex and bring a combo of novices in power armor with counterattack methods.

Daemons do technically have their own tactics.

Daemons of X and all.

DE would have Wych-cult, Kabal, and the other thing.

The problem with DA and BA is that they aren't that good, DA is in the same edition and it feels far poorer.

 Kain wrote:
You will get a 13'' tall model that was at best, vaguely alluded to in prior fluff or comes from rather obscure parts of the setting (unless you're the tyranids/imperial knights) with two big load-outs and it will cost you a hundred dollars and it will be the lynchpin of every damn army.

It will also look at least somewhat silly.

It will be called the Wolfknight with a Lupus-beamer and a Canid missile launcher.

Eldercaveman wrote:
I wouldn't mind seeing the old Wulfen (?) guys come back, the half mutated ones.

And also, 43 pages in could the OP sort out the really annoying title mistake! Please.

 Anpu42 wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:
I wouldn't mind seeing the old Wulfen (?) guys come back, the half mutated ones.

And also, 43 pages in could the OP sort out the really annoying title mistake! Please.

Thank, I realy had not noticed.

Eldercaveman wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:
I wouldn't mind seeing the old Wulfen (?) guys come back, the half mutated ones.

And also, 43 pages in could the OP sort out the really annoying title mistake! Please.

Thank, I realy had not noticed.

You really can't understand how much that was bugging me!

 dantay_xv wrote:
I think that the 1 banner per grey hunter squad was way too OP.
Bring it back to 1 banner in a squad per army as was in the older codices.
I also agree that SW, BA, DA, GK codices should not all be SM+1, it should be unique SM, but still at the same level as SM.
So is SW dont get certain things such as centurions etc then I see it as a trade off that SW get something else, or another unit getd amped slightly to compensate. Any buffing of a unit should incur the correct point increase so as not to allow the codex to be abused.
As for saga's, these are an individual warriors story or ability... They shouldnt confer anything army wide, maybe to themselves or to the unit they are in.
Next, unless the next codex changes, codex SW is the only codex wwhich specifies who all the company leaders are and their specific traits and fighting styles for their companies, so company rater than chapter tactics may well apply in this case so people can build unique SW armies.
Motw should apply to bloodclaws ad their troop ttype, probably more so than any other type of unit, as the younger more inexperienced warriors they are still rrying to learn to deal with th the wolf spirit inside them. Case in point is either redpelt or helfist in Battle of the Fang, of which 1 of these 2 bloodclaws succumbs to the wulfen.... Long fangs shouldnt get it, and not so sure greyhunters should either... As they would have grown at peace with the wolf within. Counter attack is their way of allowing the wolf ti the fore without letting it take over completely.... Scouts as loners and outcasts should get MOTW.
Feet on the ground. This is a thing regarding teleporting only and is a part of their uniqueness.. They regard spaceships and speeders as vessels to get to war, like a longship. Jump packs are not viewed favourably because if a wolf was supposed to fly he would have wings...

 Kain wrote:
You will get a 13'' tall model that was at best, vaguely alluded to in prior fluff or comes from rather obscure parts of the setting (unless you're the tyranids/imperial knights) with two big load-outs and it will cost you a hundred dollars and it will be the lynchpin of every damn army.

It will also look at least somewhat silly.

It will be called the Wolfknight with a Lupus-beamer and a Canid missile launcher.

Ogopogo wrote:

 Kain wrote:
You will get a 13'' tall model that was at best, vaguely alluded to in prior fluff or comes from rather obscure parts of the setting (unless you're the tyranids/imperial knights) with two big load-outs and it will cost you a hundred dollars and it will be the lynchpin of every damn army.

It will also look at least somewhat silly.

It will be called the Wolfknight with a Lupus-beamer and a Canid missile launcher.

Nah; it will be more along the lines of a space wolf riding a drake with something like a ice lance.

 Wilytank wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
If you want different Chapter Tactics I suggest you play C:SM. That's kinda the entire point of that book.

Though not entirely on topic, I am getting really tired of people wanting some Chapter Tactics equivalent for an army they play. C:SM got them and all of a sudden everybody wants them. Some Tyranid players wanted Hive fleet rules to go like that even though there's no actual fluff to support why Hive Fleet Bum Sniffer is any different from Hive Fleet Garbage Disposal. The same can be said about Space Wolves. Are the individual Great Companies really important enough for them to warrant them getting their own rules? Not really.

AlexRae wrote:
My first response is:

For it to stay exactly the same and just adjust points cost of upgrades like bikes to match C:SM

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Wilytank wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
If you want different Chapter Tactics I suggest you play C:SM. That's kinda the entire point of that book.

Though not entirely on topic, I am getting really tired of people wanting some Chapter Tactics equivalent for an army they play. C:SM got them and all of a sudden everybody wants them. Some Tyranid players wanted Hive fleet rules to go like that even though there's no actual fluff to support why Hive Fleet Bum Sniffer is any different from Hive Fleet Garbage Disposal. The same can be said about Space Wolves. Are the individual Great Companies really important enough for them to warrant them getting their own rules? Not really.

I agree that SW shouldn't have something like separate Chapter tactics given the different Great Companies really aren't going to be different enough to warrant a difference in rules.

The Tyranids probably did deserve it. For a long time the fluff has been that 'nids are highly adaptable. I think it was 3rd edition the whole back of the book was dedicated to a "build your own bug" section where you could individually buy upgrades that gave improvements to the stat line. Where a Space Marine in power armour is a Space Marine in power armour is a Space Marine in power armour, a gaunt or a Tyranid Warrior could be spawned in a plethora of different ways.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AlexRae wrote:
My first response is:

For it to stay exactly the same and just adjust points cost of upgrades like bikes to match C:SM

For all the crazy wish listing, frankly this is pretty much what I want. Maybe a flyer simply because everyone has a flyer or an AA variant of something to fit the current meta, but otherwise just tweak the points and be done with it. Maybe remove counter attack and replace it with something slightly less extreme, perhaps only BC get counter attack.

Jefffar wrote:
Which is why the Wolves don't have Honour Guard, Command Squads, Sternguad, Vanguard, Ironclad Dreadnoughts, Scouts that can Score, Biker Scouts, Attack Bike Squadrons, Bikers that can score, Centurions, Stormtalons, Stormravens, Hunters, Stalkers, Thunderfire Artillery, Masters of the Forge, Techmarines that are independent characters, Combat Squads, Orbital Bombardments . . .

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
Can people please stop acting as if there's nothing wrong with Grey Hunters. Please.

 kronk wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
Can people please stop acting as if there's nothing wrong with Grey Hunters. Please.

I rather like a 10 man squad with 2x special weapons, a combi-weapon sergeant, bolter+BP+CCW, counter attack, and scoring.

I'm not sure of the hate. Great unit? No. Crap unit? Hardly.

Jefffar wrote:
I think Tempests Wrath should definitely do something to the sky since it messes up all other kinda of skyborne units. Something like Flyers and FMC can only make snap shots because of the turbulence. Maybe force FMC to make grounding tests as well.

Mark, as is, should probably run about 20 to 25 points. A dumbed down version of rampage and rage might go for like 10.

The SW version of relics is basically the Sagas. I'd like to see those tinkered with a bit to both be a tad more potent, but to also have an effect based on their 'quest'. Maybe something like losing a VP if the quest goes unfulfilled. The fact that they could cost you a VP would offset the cost a tad.

 gwarsh41 wrote:

Jefffar wrote:
I think Tempests Wrath should definitely do something to the sky since it messes up all other kinda of skyborne units. Something like Flyers and FMC can only make snap shots because of the turbulence. Maybe force FMC to make grounding tests as well.

Mark, as is, should probably run about 20 to 25 points. A dumbed down version of rampage and rage might go for like 10.

The SW version of relics is basically the Sagas. I'd like to see those tinkered with a bit to both be a tad more potent, but to also have an effect based on their 'quest'. Maybe something like losing a VP if the quest goes unfulfilled. The fact that they could cost you a VP would offset the cost a tad.

I always thought of the sagas more as chapter tactics. I like the forced grounding test and snap shots idea! Its pretty potent, but not too game breaking. It will hit flier spam pretty tough, although necrons will shrug it off, daemons will panic. Maybe have MotW reduce WS to 3 to represent the blind fury of the mark.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
Can people please stop acting as if there's nothing wrong with Grey Hunters. Please.

 Jayden63 wrote:
I think what needs to happen is to make SW a MEQ army and not a marine army. Which I think is what the real problem is. People see them and say they are just a better marine army instead of saying they are their own army. Hell, look at sisters of battle. Some lower stats basic stats, but still come with BS4, the bolter, and 3+ armor save. They run around in Rhinos, all their tanks are on the rhino chasis. Seriphm are just assault marines, dominion squads are just devistator squads (with limited weapon choices). Yet people dont say, hey, those are marines even though they share just as much technology.

So, maybe if people stopped thinking of SW as marines and a different type of MEQ army, then maybe some of the hate will start to dissipate a bit.

 Jayden63 wrote:
I think what needs to happen is to make SW a MEQ army and not a marine army. Which I think is what the real problem is. People see them and say they are just a better marine army instead of saying they are their own army. Hell, look at sisters of battle. Some lower stats basic stats, but still come with BS4, the bolter, and 3+ armor save. They run around in Rhinos, all their tanks are on the rhino chasis. Seriphm are just assault marines, dominion squads are just devistator squads (with limited weapon choices). Yet people dont say, hey, those are marines even though they share just as much technology.

So, maybe if people stopped thinking of SW as marines and a different type of MEQ army, then maybe some of the hate will start to dissipate a bit.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Jayden63 wrote:
I think what needs to happen is to make SW a MEQ army and not a marine army. Which I think is what the real problem is. People see them and say they are just a better marine army instead of saying they are their own army. Hell, look at sisters of battle. Some lower stats basic stats, but still come with BS4, the bolter, and 3+ armor save. They run around in Rhinos, all their tanks are on the rhino chasis. Seriphm are just assault marines, dominion squads are just devistator squads (with limited weapon choices). Yet people dont say, hey, those are marines even though they share just as much technology.

So, maybe if people stopped thinking of SW as marines and a different type of MEQ army, then maybe some of the hate will start to dissipate a bit.

..Except they are marines, and they aren't different enough to be something other then marines.

Once again, Chaos is considered Marines, and despite not getting any individual books to themselves despite being greatly different then the 'wolf companies'..