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What is the big difference ?

 Anpu42 wrote:
Well I just got my Computer back after my Hard Drive Died Hard. So lets have an update.

War Gear:
>Frost Blade: Points 20
>Frost Axe: 20 Points
>Wolf Claw: Re-Roll To Hit or Wounds, if bought as a Pair, Re-Roll Both Not sure why these can't just be standard LC
>Wolf Tail Talisman: Iron Will

HQ: most of these sound fine
>Logan: Points Drop, +1 Wound
>Ragnar: Points Drop, Frost Fangs (S5, AP4, Mastercraft, Rending 5+)
>Njal: Points Drop, 24” +1 Deny the Witch As long as this no longer applies to blessings
>Ulric: Points Drop, Oath of War
>Canis: Points Drop: Belt of Run, Paired Wolf Claws, Rending
>Björn: Belt of Russ, +1 HP
>Lukus: Bloodclaw only HQ, can buy Bike or Jump Pack
>Wolf Lord: Points Drop, Belt of Russ Standard, +1 Wound
>Wolf Guard Battle Leader: Points Drop, +1 Wound don't think these guys should be more than 2 wounds personally
>Rune Priest: Points Drop, 12” +1 Deny the Witch same as Njal
>Wolf Priest: Points Drop
>Iron Priest: One per HQ [New Idea: True HQ, Dreadnaught FOC Changes, and Take as Heavy. If Warlord Dreadnaught 1-3 Model Squadrons] other than squadrons this is fine

Elites:
>Dreadnaughts: Points Change, possible Anti-Air Version why do you get AA?
>Lone Wolf: 1-3 Lone Wolves or taken out of the FOC not a bad compomise
>Wolf Guard: Jump Pack Wolf Guard can join Skyclaws.
>Wolf Scouts: No Real Changes From a DA perspective since we lost our super scouts I would imagine SW would as well but maybe not. No opinion either way
>Ironclad Dreadnaught [New Model]: Give Accesses to agreed

Troops:
>Grey Hunters:>Pay for both Special Weapons agreed I would say perhaps a look at the points but this change goes a long way imo
>Bloodclaws: Points drop, Options for a 5++ Shield, Pay for both Special Weapons why not just give combat shields?

Fast Attack: agreed on most but
>Fenrisian Wolves: Able to take all Cyberwolves
>Land Speeders: Price brought in line with Codex Space Marines.
>Skyclaws: Drop in Price
>Swiftclaws: Drop in Price
>Thunderwolf Cavalry: Drop in Price I would give them more options because they are veterans as well but might be op
>Flyer [New Model]: Fills Fighter Role why not just give stormtalon?

Heavy Support: why do SW get squadrons and special AA? as far as I know you don't have any reason to have more vehicles
>Land Raider: No Real Changes
>Long Fangs: Points Adjustment, Flakk Missiles [Going Retro: Loose Counter-Attack]
>Predator Tank: Points Drop, Space Wolf only model, Squadrons
>Vindicator: Points Drop, Squadrons
>Whirlwind: Points Drop, Anti-Air Option
>Stalker/Hunter: Like Access
>Flyer [New Model]: Transport why not just give stormraven?

My thoughts on your list. Not as much Marines +1 which is good but some strange additions that I don't see a background or basis for (namely squadrons on vehicles).

 FirePainter wrote:

>Wolf Claw: Re-Roll To Hit or Wounds, if bought as a Pair, Re-Roll Both Not sure why these can't just be standard LC

If the make them Lightning Claws, then they are normal Lighting Claws.
If they leave them Wolf Claws making them both if you buy both would give you a reason to not take Wolf Claw/Power Fist.

>Njal: Points Adjustment, 24” +1 Deny the Witch As long as this no longer applies to blessings

I was not aware that Iron Will Affected Blessings.

>Wolf Guard Battle Leader: Points Adjustment, +1 Wound don't think these guys should be more than 2 wounds personally

Could go either way with this one myself.

>Rune Priest: Points Adjustment, 12” +1 Deny the Witch same as Njal

As long as they are the same rule governing the Psychic Defense will all of the Rune Priest I don’t think that will be an issue.


Elites:

>Dreadnaughts: Points Change, possible Anti-Air Version why do you get AA?

Would make us Unique, We would also not need the Stalker/Hunter kit.

>Wolf Scouts: No Real Changes From a DA perspective since we lost our super scouts I would imagine SW would as well but maybe not. No opinion either way

I hope they stay basically the same, but if they did it would give us another troop choice.

Troops:

>Bloodclaws: Points drop, Options for a 5++ Shield, Pay for both Special Weapons why not just give combat shields?

Paying for the Combat Shield would make them more expensive, the opposite of what they need. The “War Shield (What some of us are calling the option) would be replacing the Bolt Pistol most likely making them the same points cost.

Fast Attack: agreed on most but

>Thunderwolf Cavalry: Points Adjustment, I would give them more options because they are veterans as well but might be op

Like that option, they are technically Wolf Guard

>Flyer [New Model]: Fills Fighter Role why not just give stormtalon?

Keep us unique like the Dark Angels Flyer.

Heavy Support:

why do SW get squadrons and special AA? as far as I know you don't have any reason to have more vehicles

Uniqueness

>Flyer [New Model]: Transport why not just give stormraven?

If you really want crap "unique flyers" like DA I guess you could just take ours and we could get the talon/raven.

If by iron will you meant Adamantine will then no it doesn't effect blessings but currently SW are the only ones who can stop blessings from going off.

Unique dread options if you get a special AA dread where is the DA's mortis dread? That was our thing and again it was taken out to make us more vanilla.

Wolf claws Again why though? Why are SW the special snowflake.


Mostly fine responses but still a good deal of special snowflake marine +1 that I don't think should stay the way it is or as you propose.

 FirePainter wrote:
If you really want crap "unique flyers" like DA I guess you could just take ours and we could get the talon/raven.

I did not say we wanted the Dark Angels Flyers, just something Unique for the Space Wolves

If by iron will you meant Adamantine will then no it doesn't effect blessings but currently SW are the only ones who can stop blessings from going off.

Ok, I Adamantine Will, forgive my Nomenclature Error. Iron Will is just easier to type.

Unique dread options if you get a special AA dread where is the DA's mortis dread? That was our thing and again it was taken out to make us more vanilla.

I don’t know, they should have gotten it as an option, but they did not so I am still using my Forge World Mortis Dread.

Wolf claws Again why though? Why are SW the special snowflake.

GW Gave them to us. If we keep them we keep them.
If we loose them, we loose them.
Someone else suggested the getting Re-Rolls on both Attack and Defense if Two are taken. I would like a reason to take them in pairs rather than Fluff. The 6th Edition Specialist Weapon Rule has made that an Non-Efficient option.

Mostly fine responses but still a good deal of special snowflake marine +1 that I don't think should stay the way it is or as you propose.

I am not the only one; the Re-Cap was based on other suggestions put out there.
Once more I am starting to adjust this list, probably once a week or so as nessasary.

Why does everyone want to take away our special items like Wolf Claws and Frostblade? Honestly, I would happily trade them for camo cloaks, special ammo, mater crafted, gravguns,etc.

Every Codex has some unique wargear, even vanillas. I really don't get the envy about melee weapons in a shooty editon....

The same with GHs. Yes, they are good. Yes, they are better than tacticals. But our Wolfguard is worse than all shades of vanilla veterans, be they hammernators, vanguard, sternguard, command squad or honor guard. Our fast attack is worse too, now even the speeders with the higher cost.

I think Anpu's list will be pretty spot on what will happen (except that squadroning stuff and AA dread). I don't think we will get Talon/Raven or Hunter/Stalker. If GW wanted to give them to us they would have already done so. My money is also on a Storm Wolf transport based on the Raven.

Runic Weapon will probably become a combination of psychic hood and force weapon, our powers will be replaced by BRB powers.

Frost Weapon MAY become our AP2 strike at I relic.

I just hope they don't change the basic equipment of the GHs. It was a re-modelling nightmare when they introduced 3 different loadouts in 3rd (pistol+ccw, bolter+ccw, bolter+pistol+ccw) and then again from 3rd to 5th replacing a fist with a special weapon.

What will we get model-wise? A flier probably (dual kit?), some monopose plastic HQs for a ridicioulous pricetag. Maybe Wulfen? Or some previously unheard off bizzaro unit out of the blue (like TWC but this time with dual-kit possibilities )
Looking at GWs last releases we could expect something old school, but I don't remember anything that we don't already have (except Leman Russ tank, but I don't see that one coming back).

Ragnar69 wrote:
But our Wolfguard is worse than all shades of vanilla veterans, be they hammernators, vanguard, sternguard, command squad or honor guard. Our fast attack is worse too, now even the speeders with the higher cost.

Dear god no. Wolfguard are much better than Vanguard. The fact that you can get combi-weapons on Terminators also means they're not really comparable. You also conveniently left out the craptastic Tactical Terminators, who are much worse than Wolfguard Terminators.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Ragnar69 wrote:
But our Wolfguard is worse than all shades of vanilla veterans, be they hammernators, vanguard, sternguard, command squad or honor guard. Our fast attack is worse too, now even the speeders with the higher cost.

Dear god no. Wolfguard are much better than Vanguard. The fact that you can get combi-weapons on Terminators also means they're not really comparable. You also conveniently left out the craptastic Tactical Terminators, who are much worse than Wolfguard Terminators.

Wolfguard + jump Pack + weapon or shield = waaaaay more expensive than Vanguard. I compare them in the same role, not their general ability. If you don't want jump packs as vanilla you probably take honor guard or hammernators. WG are versatile, true, but they are the only vets we have.
Combis on termies are nice, but most of the time it is better to simply take 3x PA combis than 2xTDA combis. And of course I left out tactical TDAs, vannila players do the same

But let's not derail the thread. I just wanted to say that each codex has it's strenghts and weaknesses and comparing a single unit with another single unit is moot.

Ragnar69 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Ragnar69 wrote:
But our Wolfguard is worse than all shades of vanilla veterans, be they hammernators, vanguard, sternguard, command squad or honor guard. Our fast attack is worse too, now even the speeders with the higher cost.

Dear god no. Wolfguard are much better than Vanguard. The fact that you can get combi-weapons on Terminators also means they're not really comparable. You also conveniently left out the craptastic Tactical Terminators, who are much worse than Wolfguard Terminators.

Wolfguard + jump Pack + weapon or shield = waaaaay more expensive than Vanguard. I compare them in the same role, not their general ability. If you don't want jump packs as vanilla you probably take honor guard or hammernators. WG are versatile, true, but they are the only vets we have.
Combis on termies are nice, but most of the time it is better to simply take 3x PA combis than 2xTDA combis. And of course I left out tactical TDAs, vannila players do the same

But let's not derail the thread. I just wanted to say that each codex has it's strenghts and weaknesses and comparing a single unit with another single unit is moot.

No, it's not moot. But keep thinking that.

Ragnar69 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Ragnar69 wrote:
But our Wolfguard is worse than all shades of vanilla veterans, be they hammernators, vanguard, sternguard, command squad or honor guard. Our fast attack is worse too, now even the speeders with the higher cost.

Dear god no. Wolfguard are much better than Vanguard. The fact that you can get combi-weapons on Terminators also means they're not really comparable. You also conveniently left out the craptastic Tactical Terminators, who are much worse than Wolfguard Terminators.

Wolfguard + jump Pack + weapon or shield = waaaaay more expensive than Vanguard.

Doesn't matter when both are way too expensive to field.

I don’t mind talking about the Wolf Guard and what could be done with them.
They are very good at everything; the problem is they have to do EVERYTHING. They have all sorts of Shiny Toys available to them, but to make use of then you either have to shove them in a Drop Pod or in a Land Raider.
In Power Armor they can be ran as Sternguard, Vanguard Veterans, Honor Guard, or Command Squads. Or they can be put into Terminator Armor. You can also tool them up to be real nasty at their job, but it all comes at a price.
>Sternguard: Can work real well, though to pull off Special Weapons at least one if not two are going to have to be in Terminator Armor. To fit two Terminator Suits in a Drop Pod you will have to bleed off two models into other Squads like Grey Hunters, restricting their ability to take Transports or their Special Weapons.
>Vanguard Veterans: The same as Sternguard unless you are going to take Jump Packs, then Price becomes an issue.
>Honor Guard: They can easily be tooled up to do such, but they will cost more than Honor Guard, but without the 2+ Armor.
>Command Squad: They are great for this, but cannot perform the same as not having access to Banners or Apothecaries.
>Terminators: Yes they can come out Real Cheap. However we are rested to 5 man Packs if you want to Deep Strike. If not you are in Land Raiders, but you sill can not take full 10 models Packs without Footslogging or plan of bleeding off a couple to other units.

Their other role it as “Veteran Sergeants”.
>Grey Hunters: If you are planning on being in a Drop-Pod/Rhino you now have to drop your second Special Weapon to get the squad on board. If you are going to run a Razorback, there is no issue. (To me this is the only time to run Mechanized Grey Hunters with a Wolf Guard Pack Leader). Footslogging is another situation they would be good.
>Blood Claws (All Types): These are probably one of the better places to put a WGPL. If you are not going with a Wolf Priest (or if you are) this is a cheap way to control them.
>Wolf Scouts: Great choice unless you are planning on Outflanking as by RAW they would loose their “Behind Enemy Lines”.
>Long Fangs: This is a good place to bleed off a WGPL. You really only have 3 real choices.
1] Naked to act as an Ablative Wound, with or without a Bolt Gun. Also a good choice to use the Quad Gun.
2] Terminator Armor to act as a 2+/5++ (or 2+/3++ with a Storm Shield) Ablative Wound.
3] Terminator Armor (With or without a Strom Shield) to add to the firepower.

A note on Terminator Wolf Guard Pack Leader:
For Grey Hunters or Blood Claws I find Terminator Armor more of a Hindrance than a Help.
>Restricts you Transport Options.
>Prevents Sweeping Advances.
>Almost twice the price of a normal WGPL unless you are giving him a Power Weapon.

Geez, is this the longest running bitch-session ever?

I tuned about on this ages ago, came back for a look and it's still the same arguement


You know what I'd like in the new codex? A chance to use my company standard bearer model that I've had since 1994 (as distinct from a grey hunter squad banner)

 karlosovic wrote:
Geez, is this the longest running bitch-session ever?

I tuned about on this ages ago, came back for a look and it's still the same arguement


You know what I'd like in the new codex? A chance to use my company standard bearer model that I've had since 1994 (as distinct from a grey hunter squad banner)

I kind of expect that we will get some sort of Sacred Banner Relic, At least I realy hope so.

If the Wolf banner gave Hatred it'd do pretty close to what it does now and not have as much crazy cheese. A Great Wolf version could have Zealot.

I'm against the wolves having a codex, their worse than the ultramarines, why do we need another space marine codex, how about we codexs for different guard regiments, bring back the lost and the damned, maybe introduce a new group of aliens like the ones the inquisition keeps mentioning but we never see any of them.

Ironclad Warlord wrote:
I'm against the wolves having a codex, their worse than the ultramarines, why do we need another space marine codex, how about we codexs for different guard regiments, bring back the lost and the damned, maybe introduce a new group of aliens like the ones the inquisition keeps mentioning but we never see any of them.

Why should loose ours, it wont cost you a dime or effect you army[s].
I would love to have a lot more dexes out there.

I still think something akin to the Codex Supplements or Codex Imperial Knights would be the best way to go. Focus it squarely on the rules, characters, wargear and units that are unique to the wolves, put a 'See Codex: Space Marines' on a lot of the rest and free up room for extra fluff and artwork.

Blood Angels, Dark Angels and argually Grey Knights should be done this way too. Wolves and Knights being the hardest of them to accomplish.

Black Templar should have had this done as well rather than trying to make it much closer to the core of the codex, but then again, it really didn't have a huge distance to go either.

Downside fo the Wolves player, buying two book. Upside for the Wolves Player, if done right, they still get to have all that cool unique space wolves stuff while getting increased access to things like flyers

I haven't read all the 45 pages so far, but has anyone said something like a huge thunderbionicwolf with a wulfen dreadfangknight upon it??? Or maybe not.. >.<

 avedominusnox wrote:
I haven't read all the 45 pages so far, but has anyone said something like a huge thunderbionicwolf with a wulfen dreadfangknight upon it??? Or maybe not.. >.<

I think something like that has come up a few times.

Ironclad Warlord wrote:
I'm against the wolves having a codex, their worse than the ultramarines, why do we need another space marine codex, how about we codexs for different guard regiments, bring back the lost and the damned, maybe introduce a new group of aliens like the ones the inquisition keeps mentioning but we never see any of them.

Yeh well back in 1994, we got the first ever codex. So if we're doing this thing, Space Wolves kinda own the idea of the codex, since we were there first, and your army can lose its codex instead
We also had the first Primarch

Lots of the lore started with Space Wolves

It's much more likely GW would discontinue chaos than Space Wolves

Something I've done I think makes sense; Bjorn is now a venerable contemptor dread. Or at least, the next FW book to involve the Space Wolves gives Bjorn the option to ride around in a venerable contemptor.

It seems odd that the oldest dreadnought in the Imperium isn't a contemptor when the space wolves are known to have them.

I'd also imagine that rather than a giant Wolf, the hypothethical Space Wolf MC would be one of the other giant nasties from Fenris like Trolls or Krakens. Or perhaps a dragon or feathery dinosaur.

And by Feathery Dinosaur I mean something like this.

Jefffar wrote:
I still think something akin to the Codex Supplements or Codex Imperial Knights would be the best way to go. Focus it squarely on the rules, characters, wargear and units that are unique to the wolves, put a 'See Codex: Space Marines' on a lot of the rest and free up room for extra fluff and artwork.

Bloody awful idea that was already tried once in 3rd ed....

Jefffar wrote:
Downside fo the Wolves player, buying two book

And this is why it's a bad idea...It's not that you have to buy two books, it's that you have to reference two books
Everytime you try to look up a rule it has a paragraph of fluff and story that ends with "see codex Space Marines" .... FFS #$%&#$%*@$*@#$*@#$%&@#$%

You get REALLY annoyed, REALLY quick, when every time you try to look up a rules reference.... it has the heading, but not the rule.... and then you have to go get the other book and look up the reference again

Nothing slows down a game unnecessarily like having to look up the same rule multiple times

And the most stupid thing is... they'll take up 8-9 lines of text in (for example) the wargear section telling you this lovely story about what the item is and how it came about, and end it by saying:
"This has the same effect as a Space Marine [blah blah], see Codex: Space Marines"
and then when you look up Codex: Space Marines the actualy rule is something like "grants stubborn" which would have been quicker, easier, and taken less space in Codex: Space Wolves then the direction to go look up a different book..... so why not just include the $#%^ing rule there in the first place ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! instead of wasting my time chasing page reference after page reference


Automatically Appended Next Post:
and at 90 flipping bucks or whatever they charge for a codex these days, don't we at least deserve a book that has the damned info we need?
I mean... seriously
Something is either cheap, or it's quality and you pay more
GW is taking the piss with that theory lately, selling a crap product at higher than mere 'premium' price

 karlosovic wrote:

Jefffar wrote:
I still think something akin to the Codex Supplements or Codex Imperial Knights would be the best way to go. Focus it squarely on the rules, characters, wargear and units that are unique to the wolves, put a 'See Codex: Space Marines' on a lot of the rest and free up room for extra fluff and artwork.

Bloody awful idea that was already tried once in 3rd ed....

Jefffar wrote:
Downside fo the Wolves player, buying two book

And this is why it's a bad idea...It's not that you have to buy two books, it's that you have to reference two books
Everytime you try to look up a rule it has a paragraph of fluff and story that ends with "see codex Space Marines" .... FFS #$%&#$%*@$*@#$*@#$%&@#$%

You get REALLY annoyed, REALLY quick, when every time you try to look up a rules reference.... it has the heading, but not the rule.... and then you have to go get the other book and look up the reference again

Nothing slows down a game unnecessarily like having to look up the same rule multiple times

And the most stupid thing is... they'll take up 8-9 lines of text in (for example) the wargear section telling you this lovely story about what the item is and how it came about, and end it by saying:
"This has the same effect as a Space Marine [blah blah], see Codex: Space Marines"
and then when you look up Codex: Space Marines the actualy rule is something like "grants stubborn" which would have been quicker, easier, and taken less space in Codex: Space Wolves then the direction to go look up a different book..... so why not just include the $#%^ing rule there in the first place ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! instead of wasting my time chasing page reference after page reference

Well the easy fix to that would be simply reprinting the rule in the book for convenience, as GW and FW often do.

 Kain wrote:
Something I've done I think makes sense; Bjorn is now a venerable contemptor dread. Or at least, the next FW book to involve the Space Wolves gives Bjorn the option to ride around in a venerable contemptor.

It seems odd that the oldest dreadnought in the Imperium isn't a contemptor when the space wolves are known to have them.

I'd also imagine that rather than a giant Wolf, the hypothethical Space Wolf MC would be one of the other giant nasties from Fenris like Trolls or Krakens. Or perhaps a dragon or feathery dinosaur.

And by Feathery Dinosaur I mean something like this.

SW prefered the simpler dreadnoughts over the contemptors it's in the fluff for the SW exclusive contemptor I don't have the book so can't quote it though.

Krackens are sea monsters possibly of tyranid origin, the thing to remember about fenrisian wildlife is it's all based on terran fauna brought by the human settlers and genetically engineered to survive the cold like the humans themselves.

Which book? I dont recall the Space Wolves ever getting an exclusive contemptor dread nought before.
They do have a venerable from Forgeworld though.

I am very curious, I'll have to get my books out.

hobojebus wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Something I've done I think makes sense; Bjorn is now a venerable contemptor dread. Or at least, the next FW book to involve the Space Wolves gives Bjorn the option to ride around in a venerable contemptor.

It seems odd that the oldest dreadnought in the Imperium isn't a contemptor when the space wolves are known to have them.

I'd also imagine that rather than a giant Wolf, the hypothethical Space Wolf MC would be one of the other giant nasties from Fenris like Trolls or Krakens. Or perhaps a dragon or feathery dinosaur.

And by Feathery Dinosaur I mean something like this.

SW prefered the simpler dreadnoughts over the contemptors it's in the fluff for the SW exclusive contemptor I don't have the book so can't quote it though.

Krackens are sea monsters possibly of tyranid origin, the thing to remember about fenrisian wildlife is it's all based on terran fauna brought by the human settlers and genetically engineered to survive the cold like the humans themselves.

Yes and most of the fluff constantly claims the blackmane wolves are the biggest and baddest land predators. There's certainly never been any reference to dinosaurs

 karlosovic wrote:

hobojebus wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Something I've done I think makes sense; Bjorn is now a venerable contemptor dread. Or at least, the next FW book to involve the Space Wolves gives Bjorn the option to ride around in a venerable contemptor.

It seems odd that the oldest dreadnought in the Imperium isn't a contemptor when the space wolves are known to have them.

I'd also imagine that rather than a giant Wolf, the hypothethical Space Wolf MC would be one of the other giant nasties from Fenris like Trolls or Krakens. Or perhaps a dragon or feathery dinosaur.

And by Feathery Dinosaur I mean something like this.

SW prefered the simpler dreadnoughts over the contemptors it's in the fluff for the SW exclusive contemptor I don't have the book so can't quote it though.

Krackens are sea monsters possibly of tyranid origin, the thing to remember about fenrisian wildlife is it's all based on terran fauna brought by the human settlers and genetically engineered to survive the cold like the humans themselves.

Yes and most of the fluff constantly claims the blackmane wolves are the biggest and baddest land predators. There's certainly never been any reference to dinosaurs

There was absolutely no hint of the Centurion ever existing or anything like them existing but now they've been a mainstay of the Space marines since the age of apostasy. The Dreadknight similarly had absolutely no indication of existing before suddenly being an iconic war machine of the Grey knight's.

Never underestimate GW's love of gratuitously retconning in new models into previously established lore.

 karlosovic wrote:

Ironclad Warlord wrote:
I'm against the wolves having a codex, their worse than the ultramarines, why do we need another space marine codex, how about we codexs for different guard regiments, bring back the lost and the damned, maybe introduce a new group of aliens like the ones the inquisition keeps mentioning but we never see any of them.

Yeh well back in 1994, we got the first ever codex. So if we're doing this thing, Space Wolves kinda own the idea of the codex, since we were there first, and your army can lose its codex instead
We also had the first Primarch

Lots of the lore started with Space Wolves

It's much more likely GW would discontinue chaos than Space Wolves

You are aware that Leman Russ was actually originally a Guardsman right?

 dantay_xv wrote:
Which book? I dont recall the Space Wolves ever getting an exclusive contemptor dread nought before.
They do have a venerable from Forgeworld though.

I am very curious, I'll have to get my books out.

I forget which IA it was but you had a separate page for the SW one, it has no mortis option but you have sagas you can take such as killing all other walkers.

The lore was hinting SW have a dark reputation where contemptors were concerned but its been a while since I read it last so don't remember exactly what it said.

Ah, I think I know the book, but its 1 I dont have.
Will reqyuire further investigation