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What would it take for me? Depends on what you mean by "get back into Gw products". I have 20k worth of painted figs so stubbornly not using them only punishes me and not Gw. That said... I bought a single 40k figure in 2013 (Gamesday captain secondhand) and used to average one ARMY a year. 40k used to be my game of choice and now its my game of last resort that I bring an army for in case the other 2-3 games I want to play have no takers at the FLGS. What drove me away? Definitely the prices were the biggest push but the craptacular finecast rollout along with my general dislike for 6th edition were the final nails in that coffin. I sold off almost all my unpainted or unwanted figs from superheavies to basic infantry and I'm left with 99.9% painted armies that each fit in a large single carrying case each.

I don't think after the past two years of not buying any units that I'll ever get back to starting new armies even with a price cut. At this point, I'm doubt I'd acquire any new army other than by a painted army swap with another player. With a better ruleset available for $20 as a stand alone purchase and cheaper codex options, I could be swayed back to playing regularly and buying some codex/expansion books which would likely reignite my interest in related GW properties. It is usually overlooked in these types of discussions but the prices caused a lack of play on top of figure purchases which decreased my interest 40k overall which caused me to NOT buy a single 40k related book or videogame during that time as well. As always, YMMV.

Around 50% price reduction.

No codex's the main rulebook is expensive enough as it is and should contain army lists.

Decomplicate the rules. Way to many special rules and other such nonsense.

I would probably start a new army if they stopped lowering the model count and increasing the price tag. The Cadians are my example. I love IG and want more, but $29 for a box of ten that used to cost $35 for a box of 20ish is outrageous. Plus the pay to win aspect of it, I dont want to have to buy a AA unit to take out a flyer that almost every army has now, Maybe make my pintle mounted gun on my Russ AA.

Plus the codex change to much and their price. I have a German army in FoW and am on my second book. First book cost me 20, second cost me 20. I've had 4 space marine books now, first 15, then 20, then 25ish, then 30ish and now its going to cost me 60ish when a hard cover comes out.

Better pricing and better rules.

I was browsing at my FLGS yesterday and saw the Harpy at $115 and the Haruspex for $100, and the prices made me feel dirty. Instead I bought a bit of infinity terrain (a MAS garage) and a Tohaa Ectros HMG for &40 total.

As for rules, I don't mind 6th, in fact I enjoy the randomness. But I'm a Tyranid player - need I say more?

Nothing would make me play GW games again.

Far better things to do with hobby time and money.

Price cuts. Basically. About 50% reduction minimum.

A company that doesn't despise me would help as well. But if you're a late-twenties "nerd" with a focus on gaming and quality, GW wants nothing to do with you. Stop treating your fanbase as the enemy and stop waging a war against them as well.

Honestly? If it's a model that'll make a good transition to KoW that I can get inexpensively. I want some GW dryads for my Sylvan kin, but that's all I can think of, at the moment. As for GW games? Nah, there's better stuff. I spent a decade loving GW stuff, but eventually I reached my limit. Crappy rules, crazy prices, and I found better games. I have no reason to go back to inferior games. Their fluff is great though, I'll continue reading the Horus Heresy novels and I'll even continue buying paints. That's it though.

I should note I do still occasionally buy paint from GW.

carlos13th wrote:Around 50% price reduction.

No codex's the main rulebook is expensive enough as it is and should contain army lists.

Decomplicate the rules. Way to many special rules and other such nonsense.

Pretty much this. Plus having a local store near more that I can play at. The GW at Concord Mills (Concord, NC) was awesome, but when it closed down it really killed the hobby around here, because people would drive those extra miles for a dedicated stored that played 40K and Warhammer. Instead of the places now that have a closet space and a roll of grass carpet for the table, while the rest of the store has umpteen million tables for fricken' MTG (no beef with MTG just a beef with current LGSs in the area.)

Plus there is no KoW, Warmachine, no Infinity, no nothing BUT MTG. There isn't even a FOW place, and I really don't want to play it. Even D&D/Pathfinder is still either a drive, or you go play at someone's house.

So really I'd go back to GW primarily if they opened a store within a 30-45 minute drive (even an hour would be fine. Ideally a 15 minute commute I'd be in heaven.) And they had dedicated gaming nights and open gaming on the weekends.

Another nice big slice of come back to me cake, would be going back to 3rd edition rules (for 40K at least) with some tweaks. And 20 US dollars paper back codexes and army books that stayed relevant for 8-10 years.

WayneTheGame wrote:

 loki old fart wrote:
what vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZPqPWC5aQs perhaps?

Wow was that guy deluded or what? What a bunch of dribble.

new gamer: 99$ WTF let's buy Call of Duty!

In a nutshell, everything that Mantic currently does better than them.

- Low prices. (£1/mini infantry, £1.50/mini elites, £2/mini cavalry, tanks for £15-20)
- Excellent free rules which are well-balanced, cater to tournament players and are reguarly updated.
- No throwing lawsuits at anything that moves.

I took a break from Warhammer for a while and what got me back into it was walking into a GW store in Virginia and talking to the staff who were gamers and were obviously excited about gaming. That's what got me back into it. I dusted off my SOB army and started collecting a whole new Imperial Fist army.

If GW wanted to get back in the game, they'd re-create such places, throw as many sponsored tournaments as they could and reach out to players of all kinds. (Yes, GW, even the veterans.)

We should email this thread to GW.

Yes. Maybe then the board will get the idea, and drop Kirby for running the company into the ground.

 scarletsquig wrote:
In a nutshell, everything that Mantic currently does better than them.

- Low prices. (£1/mini infantry, £1.50/mini elites, £2/mini cavalry, tanks for £15-20)
- Excellent free rules which are well-balanced, cater to tournament players and are reguarly updated.
- No throwing lawsuits at anything that moves.

Yeah, basically. They don't even have to offer the rules for free (although it would be nice) but $70 for a rulebook and $50 for an army book/codex is ridiculous, especially when its clear that they purposely used hardcover and quality paper simply to raise the price to that level. Price things appropriately versus trying to milk money out of people with charging more for units that you don't use as much of, stop cheating people on the value versus price (I should not have to buy two boxes of a unit for WHFB to field a standard-sized unit; it should be one box = one standard sized unit), and of course fix the damn rules so it's not an arms race where whoever buys the biggest, baddest, most expensive toys gets an advantage because usually the most expensive units ($$$) are also the ones that can win games for you - see: Helldrake @ $75, Riptide @ $85, Wraithknight @ $115. It almost sounds like a bad scammy commercial trying to sell you expensive junk: "Space Marines getting into assault range and beating your Tau senseless? Do you wish you could blow up those pesky enemy tanks with no problems? Well you're in luck! Just purchase three Riptide battlesuits from your local GW today and show those genetically-enhanced humans the might of the greater good! All for the low price of $255! Order now!"

E-mail it to every stockholder and board member.

Even with the high prices, people still buy. But, to expand the existing player base, there would have to be a few things done.

1. Start with a moratorium on price increases for the near term. A price decrease would actually be bad for the market, especially for retailers who purchased based on the current price. Simply put new product out at existing price points and allow the economy's inflation to slowly catch up.

2. If Fantasy is to continue to need a higher model count than 40k, then there will need to be more models in the boxes instead of the 5 that match 40k boxes.

3. While tournament support is not required, the rules and supplements should be written with the understanding that people do play tournaments and want a fair game.

 Breotan wrote:
1. Start with a moratorium on price increases for the near term. A price decrease would actually be bad for the market, especially for retailers who purchased based on the current price. Simply put new product out at existing price points and allow the economy's inflation to slowly catch up.

I'm not waiting 35 years for inflation to catch up with GW pricing.

I agree, a price decrease is pretty unlikely and you're right to point out how counter-productive it could be- I hadn't thought of that.
What they could do, and arguably this has already started, is offer new deals that are better value- new battleforces and so on.

What they need to do, over all, is make sure the quality of their releases is good. If they were to release some decent boxed games, I'd buy them. I'm sure lots of us would. I'm worried that Dreadfleet has scared them off doing that, and that they don't understand why Dreadfleet was a failure. Mantic has done very well with stuff like Project Pandora, Dwarf King's Hold and Deadzone, and that's with the myriad production and quality issues they've had. GW producing more sets like the Space Hulk re-release, would really get me buying. If they did a "hunter orc" bundle for the hobbit with a discount, I'd pick it up.
They have options to provide value or release things that don't require a total change of their production model or a drastic cut to prices.

A price decrease might have to come with an elimination of
their shops and a renewed partnership with existing retailers
and volunteers, but I don't see that happening. I think it would
be profitable, just not profitable to support a capitalist profit
seeking venture that seeks to grow sales exponentially over
the years.

What would bring me back would simply be having a good
reason to play with my models. Make the rules less random
and vague and more fun to play with whatever army you're
deciding to play with.

 malfred wrote:
A price decrease might have to come with an elimination of
their shops and a renewed partnership with existing retailers
and volunteers, but I don't see that happening. I think it would
be profitable, just not profitable to support a capitalist profit
seeking venture that seeks to grow sales exponentially over
the years.......

A GW without shops overnight would be 1/10 of the size assuming it survived the transition - so about the size of PP. Pro rata it might be more profitable but not in in actual terms. So I agree not likely. The shops also constrain the price. They cannot reduce prices while the shops/property/rent represent so much of their cost and turnover. Property is wildly variable and GWs margin (10-11%) is soon impacted by rises. Also as a PLC the Managerscannot (intentionally ) smash the company stock they work for or the Law might be interested.

 warboss wrote:
What would it take for me? Depends on what you mean by "get back into Gw products". I have 20k worth of painted figs so stubbornly not using them only punishes me and not Gw. That said... I bought a single 40k figure in 2013 (Gamesday captain secondhand) and used to average one ARMY a year. 40k used to be my game of choice and now its my game of last resort that I bring an army for in case the other 2-3 games I want to play have no takers at the FLGS. What drove me away? Definitely the prices were the biggest push but the craptacular finecast rollout along with my general dislike for 6th edition were the final nails in that coffin. I sold off almost all my unpainted or unwanted figs from superheavies to basic infantry and I'm left with 99.9% painted armies that each fit in a large single carrying case each...........

See now I think that this is the rub of it. I'm like warboss here but see it from a different angle. I have plenty of minis and armies kicking about (not 20k's worth!) and not great desire to pick up a new one - the occasional update or rulebook but that's it. I'm very much the reason why GW do not target vets as much as new gamers. I can afford their products so the prices don't bother me so much I just don't need them (for the most part).

So I suppose my main gripe would be that they have become so staid, more unit for existing armies isn't really innovation for me. Just 3 systems doesn't cut it and they have released some good rulesets in the last decade but not for their main game. The various Historical rulesets based off of Warmaster or the LoTRs rules (the Legends series) and the excellent Kampfe Groupe Normandie (missed out on 28mm WW2 there fellers!) have all come and gone and some are now being very successful for other companies. So I would see this change, not the reintroduction of historicals (that ship has sailed) so much as the release of other games. Spulk, Gorka Morka, Necromunda etc were good intros to newbs but also a boon to busy professionals/parents that have limited time to game like me. The odd time these get released I snap up a copy, that even meant a copy of Dreadfleet!

Also the old barmy silliness that has been lost. Not likely in a corporation but I'm sure they can find a consultant or something.....

Serious price cuts and tighter rules may get my friends who've stopped gaming to return to tabletop 40k.

I entered GW products with Talisman and Space Crusade. Still have both buying the original sets even though I am rebuying the new Talisman set for my nephew.

I still play games a lot and always will, but playing Warhammer is getting harder and harder to get a game.

Number one on the list is getting a player base. It doesn't matter what they do if I have no one to game with. So making it more accessible to people beginning is first and foremost.

Stop the embargo bs and support local clubs will bring way more profits in the long run down in OZ.

We used to be a very lucrative market for them but peeps have moved on due to the policies of GW over the last few years.

Then comes writing balanced rules and having no codex significantly overpowered.

 Necro wrote:
......

Stop the embargo bs and support local clubs....

I don't deny that there isn't a price problem in Australasia but are these not mutually exclusive. Local resources cannot compete when being undercut from abroad?

Codex balancing.
Fix finecast.
More releases.
Price reduction.

and for the love of logic and reason; don't make Tyrannic War Veterans so horrendously poor, they're just naff Sternguard.

Reduced prices. Like, 50%

notprop wrote:

 Necro wrote:
......

Stop the embargo bs and support local clubs....

I don't deny that there isn't a price problem in Australasia but are these not mutually exclusive. Local resources cannot compete when being undercut from abroad?

Good question Notprop. My personal opinion is that our local games shops can compete because they cover many games: Table top, card games, board games and jigsaw puzzles (my wife is a mad fan of these).

I can only speak for myself who spends about $5000 (sometimes more but never less a year of war gaming /puzzles/ board games and since the embargo I have purchased nothing from GW. That said I have bought from forge world however I am spending far more on board games, infinity and warmahordes these days because I feel jilted by a company that I adored.

Still got all my armies from day dot ( my second ed orcs are my favourite but they never see play time these days)

The independents are doing great in my home city but they don't rely on GW sales. It would seem that the GW hobby is diminishing down here.

 notprop wrote:
I don't deny that there isn't a price problem in Australasia but are these not mutually exclusive. Local resources cannot compete when being undercut from abroad?

Local stores were only being undercut because Games Workshop is ripping them off. If Australian wholesale was UK wholesale + shipping instead of UK wholesale + 100%, local stores wouldn't be at such a disadvantage.

AMEN AlexHolker

I haven't really played anything else than GW's games since I took up the miniature wargaming hobby, mostly because 40K takes up all the time I have for painting and gaming.

I purchased most of my miniatures years ago, and the models that I have purchased the last two years, I have either bought used from other players, ordered from eBay, converted, or purchased as OOP from resellers.
I think the reason why I don't feel like I have been ripped of, is because none of the armies I play have been updated since at least 2009 when I begun, and because I purchased most of what I have back then, I haven't really been hit by price hikes.
The only thing I have noticed is that almost all of their rule book releases since 6th edition have been worthless to me. They have gone up in price and down in content, so the only two books I have purchased from GW is the 6th edition hardback and the new Apocalypse rules.

Right now I'm being tempted to get into either Malifaux or FoW, so that means if GW starts making mistakes with either updating Orks or IG, I probably won't be buying a lot of their stuff in the future.