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 Blacksails wrote:


I'm not telling you need to agree with me. I'm explaining that the value of a GW model does not compare well with other games for numerous reasons. GW minis do cost more per model than many other games. People have already admitted that PP sells some expensive kits, but that's offset significantly by the amount of models you need to have a large army. For the cost of a 1000pts 40k army, I could have a significantly larger force (relative to the standard game size) in WM/H.

To expand upon the strawman example using the Cadians in an above post, ignoring the fact I can also buy those Trenchers at a discount. Said Trenchers are a full unit with all their optional weapon attachments. In one box. The Cadians are not usable ingame out of the box as anything other than Veterans/Penal Legion. You need at least one more box and a command squad to make them usable as what the packaging says they are. Even then you don't even get al of the options, unlike the Trencher box.

So, how exactly are they cheaper?

 Grimtuff wrote:


To expand upon the strawman example using the Cadians in an above post, ignoring the fact I can also buy those Trenchers at a discount. Said Trenchers are a full unit with all their optional weapon attachments. In one box. The Cadians are not usable ingame out of the box as anything other than Veterans/Penal Legion. You need at least one more box and a command squad to make them usable as what the packaging says they are. Even then you don't even get al of the options, unlike the Trencher box.

So, how exactly are they cheaper?

Thanks, I'm not too knowledgeable on WM/H.

If we're talking about spaceships though...

Here is what turned me off Games Workshop, in order of importance to me, which also is what I'd like to see fixed:

1.) Awful, convoluted rules

I think the rules are far too complex, too unclear, and too numerous. I would like to see a much simplified ruleset. Saying "beer and pretzels" isn't a free pass to release lousy rules. And I quit back in 5th! I can scarcely imagine how bad it is now, when you need a rulebook, your codex, a supplement, and then an allies codex and maybe supplement as well! Plus day 1 FAQ's and corrections! No, no thank you.

2.) Increasingly poor sculpts, Finecast

Obviously this is very subjective. In my experience releases used to be pretty good to awesome (Grey Knights, Necrons) aesthetically, and then they'd have one laughably bad model (Wraithknight, Orikan) which was alright. However at some point in the last few years that seems to have changed some. It seems that some releases now have a lot of really crappy models (Chaos) and that others seem to be the same old models with no real new stuff or innovation except with one made really big (Riptide, Wraithknight). Kinda lame. Also, the skull-spackle on every blank surface is a little stupid too.

Finecast needs no further explanation and as far as I know is already on the way out anyway.

3.) Prices

I can accept that prices for this game are very high but they are also for the very finest models on the market. In 2014, though, that no longer seems to be true. Not only do I not like the aesthetics as much as I did, it's clear that other vendors can deliver models that look just as good quality and sculpting wise, such as Dreamforge. At that point I start to question the value proposition. When a Land Raider was $45 when I started playing in 2009 and is $75 as of 2013, I start to feel like maybe GWS thinks I'm a sucker. PS, my job sold bottles of soda for $1.25 in 2006, and those bottled sodas are $1.35 this afternoon, so I don't think that analogy from earlier holds up either.

Still, the prices are not a serious consideration for me over the other two factors.

 easysauce wrote:


to "well you HAVE to buy more GW minis" which is also, false,
you can play at any pts level you want, from kill team, to regular, to apoc.

Except for the fact that 40K and WHFB are unbalanced messes at lower points levels, and to play the games at the generally accepted "normal" levels (1500-2000 for 40K, 2000+ for WHFB, 35 to 50 for WarmaHordes), a WMH force costs less than a 40K or WHFB force. I freely admit, if you like to have shedloads of models, then GW is a better deal, but Warmahordes is a cheaper *game*.

Also if you don't see the aesthetic difference between Warmahordes armies, you're not looking, though I'll admit they generally look more similar at a glance than 40K armies.

[quote-even 13 basic plastic infantry from WH's is 50$...

15 basic cadians costs 47$....(again, they are 25-30% cheaper if you dont buy at GW)

price per model is still higher then GW, and people in this thread keep saying GW is more expensive, when it is not... PPM it is cheaper.

that, for now at least, you need far far far fewer models for WmH is nice... for now... until people want to play bigger games, or the company realizes it cannot sell you 15 models once and profit for multiple decades off of that one sale.

the converse is also true, who plays WmH at larger sized games? or apoc sized games? what about those that want large games with lots of different models?

some people dont want small model count armies, and thats just as ok as wanting small M count armies.

take for example the starter set from WmH

Price:
$99.99*
Model Count:
17

vs starter set for 40k
48 miniatures @ 119$

both let you play the respective games 2 player, sure the GW box costs 20$ more, but you get 3x the models...


I have played plenty of small pts games, usually against younger kids who cannot afford to amass a large army in a short space of time, and 400-750 is still a lot of fun for all involved.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 RatBot wrote:

My 35pt Cygnar army is $192 USD.
The 1500 point Imperial Guard list I wrote (since you want to use IG as a example, apparently) is $567.00USD.

What was that about prices again?

how many models in your cygnar army?

how many models in your IG army?



notice how the IG army has far more models, cheaper price per model...

why not compare WmH to an Apoc army? then its super expensive as 3k costs even more then 1500 pts... heck why stop there? why not go into the 10k zone... thats super expensive! way more then WmH....

a FAIR comparison, like the one I made, is to compare the price per model, as the # of models you need for 40k is completely subjective and under your control, while WmH forces you to play with ~20 models.

 Blacksails wrote:
Why are people comparing GW prices to other hobbies?

They're two unrelated things. If you're going to make comparisons, do them to other miniature companies.

Because if they compare the prices to other companies' games then it becomes obvious that GW is overpricing... and they don't want to do that, now do they?

Buying GW miniatures is less expensive than outfitting a nuclear powered aircraft carrier, so it's a bargain!

The Auld Grump - heck, even within the hobby the balance is off - GW uses plastic, and owns its own manufactory... they pay less per model than anybody else, then charge more....

 easysauce wrote:
yup and when GW started, you only needed a few models to start...

over time, a company HAS to expand that or die... they cannot sell you 15 models, and live off that profit for decade after decade...

My best friend was really into Bloodbowl. At most you need 16 miniatures and miniatures for cheerleaders, refs or coaching staff if you really, really want to. So did he buy one team and that was that? No. He owns every team.

In lower model count games when people get towards being done with their army, they start another.

to "well you HAVE to buy more GW minis" which is also, false,
you can play at any pts level you want, from kill team, to regular, to apoc.

unlike WMH which forces you to start at 15 pts, has no support for "normal" sized armies, and even less support for apoc sized games...

You're trolling us right? This can't be serious.

"Forcing you to start at 15 pts." Oh. That's precious. Wrong, but precious. The starter boxes average 11 points.
"has no support for "normal" sized armies? What does that even mean? Surely it doesn't mean the constant slew of well tested scenarios they publish for free every year in their Steamroller pdf? Or the update cycle that includes stuff for every faction so there's always more options for your army rather than having to wait for splash releases.

As for apocalypse sized games, you might want to take a look at the Unbound rules in Colossals and Gargantuan books for a rules variant meant to do exactly that.

Sorry, but all this exists already.

 easysauce wrote:

Spoiler:

yup and when GW started, you only needed a few models to start...

over time, a company HAS to expand that or die... they cannot sell you 15 models, and live off that profit for decade after decade...

and you have a very bad tone...

"agree with me that GW is over priced, even though this other game costs more per model it all works out because they will NEVER make us have to buy more models"

now the argument has gone from "gw minis cost more" which is false,

to "well you HAVE to buy more GW minis" which is also, false,
you can play at any pts level you want, from kill team, to regular, to apoc.

unlike WMH which forces you to start at 15 pts, has no support for "normal" sized armies, and even less support for apoc sized games...



if you want to play 40k then play it, reduce you pts size if you cannot afford a 1850pts army.. its literally that simple... no one is forcing you to play larger games.

Its complete BS to say that a game like warmahordes with MORE expensive models, costs less, then a game with less expensive models, because you HAVE to buy more of the less expensive models, when in fact, you certainly do NOT have to buy more of the less expensive models at all.

Why are you trying to prove people's opinions wrong? If people are saying that GW needs to be cheaper for them to buy back in, them that's that, no amount of bleating from you about relative model costs is going to make any difference. Perhaps people are happier paying more per model for Warmachine because the rules aren't utter gak, the company's relationship with its customer base isn't shot to hell and people feel like an appreciated customer rather than an exploited resource? (FWIW I don't play Warmachine, so no counter knighting here)

Even if you managed to somehow conclusively prove that 40K is cheaper to play than every other game on the fething planet, good luck with that, the fact remains that the perception of the game is that it is too expensive. In the face of public perception, facts are irrelevant, and the "price problem" needs to be addressed, even if it doesn't factually exist (it does.)

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
Why are people comparing GW prices to other hobbies?

They're two unrelated things. If you're going to make comparisons, do them to other miniature companies.

Because if they compare the prices to other companies' games then it becomes obvious that GW is overpricing... and they don't want to do that, now do they?

Buying GW miniatures is less expensive than outfitting a nuclear powered aircraft carrier, so it's a bargain!

The Auld Grump - heck, even within the hobby the balance is off - GW uses plastic, and owns its own manufactory... they pay less per model than anybody else, then charge more....

You know, maybe that's the attitude I should have when buying my models online.

"Only $150 for a baneblade? Well its cheaper than that new car I want, so let it riiiiidddeeeee!"

 easysauce wrote:



I have played plenty of small pts games, usually against younger kids who cannot afford to amass a large army in a short space of time, and 400-750 is still a lot of fun for all involved.

I disagree, small games of 40K are terrible. Also, conversely, you can just spend $50 and have a small game of Warhmahordes.

how many models in your cygnar army?

how many models in your IG army?



notice how the IG army has far more models, cheaper price per model...

why not compare WmH to an Apoc army? then its super expensive as 3k costs even more then 1500 pts... heck why stop there? why not go into the 10k zone... thats super expensive! way more then WmH....

a FAIR comparison, like the one I made, is to compare the price per model, as the # of models you need for 40k is completely subjective and under your control, while WmH forces you to play with ~20 models.

Except I could give a flying feth about model count; or at least, it isn't a key factor in my enjoyment of miniatures games (though 8th WHFB, at least as it was played in my local meta, tried my patience on that front; 150 Skaven in an army? Blocks of 50 Chaos Warriors? Ewwwww). I want to play enjoyable games. I absolutely have no problem with GW armies being more expensive than Warmahorde armies, nor do I have a problem with Warmahordes kits being more expensive than GW kits (though this is rapidly becoming untrue with the $35 Dire Avengers and $60 Witch Elves). What I look at is: "What's the minimum I have to buy to actually start playing the game to really get a full appreciation for the rule set? How much will it cost to buy a force of the size the ruleset is balanced around?" In both cases, Warmahordes wins. I'm totally willing to play a premium for miniatures. I'd totally buy that IG army for more than I paid for the Warmahordes army, but not three times as much.

With all that said, it isn't so much the price of a full GW army (though it's a factor), it's the mediocre rules and gakky corporate attitude that really keep me away. The price sure as hell doesn't help them at all, though.

The quality of the last starter box was so good I kept the rule book. and cultists. And gave the rest to my grand kids to play with,
probably all broke now. But who cares they were rubbish anyway.

Compared to other high quality plastic injection molded model kits, GW is more expensive model to model. If you want to cherry pick favorable examples, allow me to retort:

Perry Brothers.

You can get a box of perry plastic infantry with lots of options and bits for less than a dollar per model, more than half the cost, model for model, than a Cadian Shock Trooper.

There are aplenty more examples.

Price per model isn't what's being compared though, it's price for starting. A 1,500 point IG army is the "standard" size army that people play; sure you can play in an Escalation League that starts at 200 or 500 or 750, but 1,500 is the generally-accepted normal size battle. For WM/H that value is, to my understanding, 35 or 50, and personally I think that $566 is on the low side; I know I did a price comparison to Kings of War and the same number of models for a WHFB Undead army was $588 (around $470 if you had the rules and army book) for what was $175 and a starting force in Kings of War terms (I didn't check the corresponding points cost from GW).

Anyways, the point isn't that GW has a lower price per model than WM/H, it's that I can spend the same amount on a "standard" 40K army (let's say $500 for simplicity) as I can on a varied WM/H force that, ultimately, gives me more flexibility in what I field and when than being a rigid structure that I have to use because it's all I've got.

Since I haven't ditched GW yet, allow me to point out why I haven't switched to warmahordes and why I still do 40k.

1) The models are cohesive, thematic and form a representation of a large force that is unique. Warmahordes gives you a handful of different models that follow a loose theme like USSR inspired.
2) I vastly prefer large scale battles with 28mm heroic to skirmish games. It looks and feels more pleasing and feels less about the gameplay itself.
3) The community for WM/H around here never paint their models. At all. Again relating to the above point, the only reason to switch is in the pursuit of better gameplay, and that is not my sole incentive.
4) I love the themes, models and lore for 40k beyond measure, can't understand in the slightest where the dribble about the models being sub-par come from outside of specialist, unfair comparisons and I absolutely detest the models for WM/H.
5) You can't put a price on the enjoyment of building a good, thematic 40k army with lore depth and then playing largely variable scale battles with it.
6) The only alternatives in terms of actually standing a chance of getting a game for each system are Flames of War and Warmahordes. The former would require great patience still and far rarer games, the latter I have no interest in.

riburn3 wrote:
Okay, but what's a serious price cut?

Ok an example- Landraider. it was $45 on release mid/early 2004 ish? The price is currently $75 right now. Serious would be around $50/$55. Battle wagon, landraider are not worth more then then $55.

A price cut would help , but what would help most would be rules.

40k rules seemed to me to be based on a guardsman equivalent originally ( I played 1st and second edition - I've read 3rd and 4th) and haven't seemed to have adapted well to having a meq as the usual trooper. Simplicity would help , warmachines rules as someone pointed out earlier are much simpler , the most complex being the cavalry rules. All the big things are easy to remember and uncomplicated.

Also too many marines, marines are boring and seem to have lost the ambiguous nature they used to possess. I was always a fan of the xenos, chaos and to a lesser extent the guard. Everything nowdays seems to be marines, marines, marines to the extent that people think that the orks aren't the most populous race in the universe.

Why people get excited about sexless , monkish super humans who beat everything i'll never know. Marines just don't seem to have much going on on a psychological level , eldar are fighting the end of their race, Orks have conquered fear completely and manipulate the universe around them to fit in with their idea of how things work, chaos delve into the corruption that humans face, guards fight a hopeless war against the enemies of the imperium and marines, well marines fight and win vs all comers , proudly representing unhumanity , and er a few turn to chaos, boom boom.

Honestly? Nothing will get me back into GW products. I'm enjoying giving my hard earned money to all the companies that actually work for my money. Plus, I'd have to go back to a narrow product selection because there is no way I'd be able to afford more than GW stuff, so I'd be dropping Historicals, Warmachine/Hordes, KoW, Dreadball, X-Wing, Freeblades, and Dropzone Commander. Mmmmm, no thanks.

i) Price drops/ more value per box (no more price rise with less models)

ii) Customer loyalty/ awareness - listen to complaints, and change accordingly.

iii) Better written/ updates rules (or at least provide free online codices to accommodate all those FAQs)

iv) Bring back free pdfs for things. Charging people for "dataslates" is cheap and unnecessary.

v) Improve the codices themselves. Back in 3rd edition codices were filled with tactics, modelling tips and ideas for games. This helped to support newer players. The new books lack soul.

vi) A greater involvement of GW in using their stores for gaming and tournaments. The old atmosphere of many GW stores is not what it once was.

I buy recast models today, because GW at best does not support its followers, and at worst openly abuses them.

The best way to protest against a company is through your wallet. However I don't see why I should limit my hobby because the GW managers are interested in making a quick buck at the expense of long term stability.
I would have to see a lot of change before I would consider buying from their stores again.

 easysauce wrote:

seems like GW kicked your dogs or something... Im not white knighting them, I am just complaining about different things then you are... apparently I have to rage out at GW $'s and prices alone or I am white knighting.

Nah, not really. I just grew up, and just like I lost interest in kiddie toys, I lost interest in 40k. And to be fair, whilst you’re not “white knighting” GW, you’re being appallingly ignorant, dismissive, and ill-informed of other games out there. That’s what rankles people, methinks, not your liking of 40k (like it all you want bud, I’ve got no dog in the fight)

 easysauce wrote:

I actually started on other mini wargames first and ended up enjoying 40k the most, seems like a lot of people in this thread dont enjoy GW, and dont want others to enjoy GW.

Even if I like something, I also like to be objective about it-blame my science degree. the original animated transformers movie is still my favourite movie ever (nostalgia for the win), but it is a terribly constructed and error-loaded movie. I like it… but I’m honest about its faults.

 easysauce wrote:

its still a cheap-moderately expensive hobby...
I can buy 4 steam punk warjacks for 49.99 they are terminator sized minis
60$ gets my 5 terminators...
and this is full GW retail, and anyone with a brain is buying it at 25-30% off at a FLGS or online... so realistically it costs 45-50$
soo, WH has 4 models for 50$, and I can get GW product 5 models, for 50$....
even 13 basic plastic infantry from WH's is 50$...
15 basic cadians costs 47$....(again, they are 25-30% cheaper if you dont buy at GW)
what was that about prices again?

Which is why you don’t see me raising the “price” argument. I don’t see it as valid. I’ve shelled out two £50 orders for individual minis from Hasslefree (awesome company) that have no official “game” to go with them – they’re just lovely models. Price isn’t an issue for me – its that I feel I am being gouged and taken for an idiot. And when a couple of years ago, when I could buy 20 cadians in a box, it didn’t bother me. When they got repackaged, and the contents were halved and the price remain all but flat, I feel like I’m being gouged. See what I mean?

 easysauce wrote:

I can buy 4 steam punk warjacks for 49.99 they are terminator sized minis
( even 9 factions worth of the almost the exact same thing) I definitely do not see any large distinction (visually) or variation between the warmahordes players armies, everything seems like its 1/3 main armies with one or two models that are different. caster, warjacks, big warjack, some infantry... done.. sub monsters for steam robots for hordes and repeat...
YAWNNNNNNNN
60$ gets my 5 terminators... (even several factions of different space men!) not really a game breaking price difference... and while the factions may not play all that different, I certainly see the different aesthetics between chaos, SW, GK, ect terminators, not so with the warjacks

You don’t see the irony of that statement, do you?
Six warmachine factions, four hordes factions, and six other sub factions (pirates, dwarves, llaelese resistance, mafia, Warpigs and Gators) and can’t see a different despite huge visual and playstyle differences, but with regard to 40k, even though they play the same (you said it yourself..), and lots of them look the same (silver marines, red marines, blue marines…) and despite it all being bloody power armour, you’re trying to argue it’s all aesthetically different? You dismiss Warmachine’s component pieces so casually, whilst not knowing (nor wanting to know, it seems)their extensive differences (and there’s loads) but you remain silent on the fact that a huge amount of 40k's aesthetics is a variation on a single concept. its like Malibu Stacy- "now with a new hat".
Just as you are so appallingly dismissive of Warmachine,that same attitude be turned on its head and applied to 40k -it can just as easily be argued that game boils down to “power armour with different bling”.Just as that argument isnt really true or accurate, its the same for what you say about warmachine mate.

Don't confuse "perspective" with "objective".

Bullockist wrote:

Why people get excited about sexless , monkish super humans who beat everything i'll never know. Marines just don't seem to have much going on on a psychological level , eldar are fighting the end of their race, Orks have conquered fear completely and manipulate the universe around them to fit in with their idea of how things work, chaos delve into the corruption that humans face, guards fight a hopeless war against the enemies of the imperium and marines, well marines fight and win vs all comers , proudly representing unhumanity , and er a few turn to chaos, boom boom.

What you trying to say here.

People keep arguing cost of armies versus the cost of models, and how GW isn't overcosted when compared to PP. Of course it isn't: both are very expensive, if you look at models in a vacuum. And (almost) nobody plays only low point games for very long.

You can spend days trying to figure out the cost of a Warmahordes 50 point steamroller double list army (meaning you bring two different lists, and pick what to play after seeing the enemy lists, but no which one he picked) You could then try to compare that to the cost of a 40k tournament sized army. But that's not going to matter, because people are going to build the army that they have more fun with, no minding minor variances in cost.

I know on the secondary market, you can get decent sized forces of either game for roughly the same price, so I think its safe to say that any difference in effective playing cost is minor.

What isn't minor is the experience difference. A player might chose 40k due to its background, a robust player base, and a forgiving if unbalanced rules set. A player might chose WM/H due to it's tight ruleset, balanced armies, and the strong competitive scene.

In other words, it doesn't matter if surfing is a little cheaper then skiing when you live in the Rocky Mountains.

For me? The local 40k scne dried up, the rules are completely unbalanced, and I dont' find the random aspects of 6th edition remotely charming. PP models could go up 25%, while GW could drop 25%, and PP would still be a better value for me. For plenty of others, it'll be the opposite.

This thread is about what would need to change for those who no longer are into GW games, for them to get back into it. For some people the answer is "they can't do much, I've already found this replacement I think is great."

Given GW's concentration on recruiting new players vs retaining vets, there's simply no reason to expect GW to ever try to get back lost market share in the form of those of us who have moved on to greener pastures. How are they supposed to figure out how to do that when they can't even figure out how to keep the customers they already have?

 frozenwastes wrote:
This thread is about what would need to change for those who no longer are into GW games, for them to get back into it. For some people the answer is "they can't do much, I've already found this replacement I think is great."

Given GW's concentration on recruiting new players vs retaining vets, there's simply no reason to expect GW to ever try to get back lost market share in the form of those of us who have moved on to greener pastures. How are they supposed to figure out how to do that when they can't even figure out how to keep the customers they already have?

The shame is that they could do it, they just can't find their ass with two hands and a map.

They'd need to do two things, I think, to rekindle 40k in FLGS's across the land: write tight, balanced, and fun rules; and invest money back into the community with Outriders, prize support, tournament scenarios, and global campaigns.

Have an outrider in every store running events (like pressgangers), and write rules that are fun and allow people to play whatever kind of army they want without being stomped, and people will come back, prices be damned.

Here's my new answer:

Get some of the friends I made playing 40k and Fantasy back
into the game.

 malfred wrote:
Here's my new answer:

Get some of the friends I made playing 40k and Fantasy back
into the game.

And I know that I could do that, if 40k had better balance, less fiddly rules (hey GW, more dice rolls does not mean better rules), and was supported in any way. I have three good friends with armies on the shelf of our clubhouse that never come out, plus my own.

But we play WM/H now, which is a good game, and we have other things we want to try before trying to fix 40k...

 Polonius wrote:

 malfred wrote:
Here's my new answer:

Get some of the friends I made playing 40k and Fantasy back
into the game.

And I know that I could do that, if 40k had better balance, less fiddly rules (hey GW, more dice rolls does not mean better rules), and was supported in any way. I have three good friends with armies on the shelf of our clubhouse that never come out, plus my own.

But we play WM/H now, which is a good game, and we have other things we want to try before trying to fix 40k...

Thing is, my friends all went their own ways , for the most part. I'm the only
one playing Warmachine Hordes, so I made new friends.

They've split into FOW, historicals, and boardgames.

I want a shop that is open.

Because the last three times it's been closed

 loki old fart wrote:
I want a shop that is open.

Because the last three times it's been closed

Try during the day

All joking aside, I think they are open on saturdays, the few times I went there I was lucky.

What would it take to get me to consider coming back? Affordable soft cover army books.

The new edition came out for each of WHFB and 40k with the same sort of "You can just ignore the broken edges" rules support, so I stopped keeping up on buying army books. I'm now currently at least $300 behind on the latest books.

Why do I feel the need to own all of the books? Because that's what it takes to be aware of the various rules problems and important units.

 azreal13 wrote:

darkcloak wrote:
reading through a lot of these comments and the amount of people who are so apathetic towards pricing is distressing!

I can't believe these people are fine with paying so much for their toys! I mean yeah sure GW makes some super nice plastic kits, but damn! $15 for a Captain? When I can make that same dude out of a simple Space Marine?

You're making an objective argument for a subjective decision, you think $15 is too much, I agree, others will not. You're also mistaking apathy for pragmatism. For instance, I acknowledge that GW is somewhat backed into a corner pricing wise because of it's overheads, that's their problem, and I choose to spend my money elsewhere most of the time, as, apparently, are an increasing number of others. There's no point in getting het up about it, just decide what's best for you and go with it.

A guy I know is saving up for a FW Titan, I think he's absolutely stupid for doing so. First, that's well over $600! Insanity! Secondly, I have the plans to build one, all I need is the motivation, lol!

How long will that take you? How much do you value your time? How much spare time does the guy buying one have? How strong are his scratch building skills? Again, whether a model is "worth it" or not is a personal decision based on multiple criteria.

It's this kind of total lack of fiscal responsibility that allows companies to constantly hike their prices up. And for what? Just to keep the profit line increasing? Because that's exactly what it is, GW isn't in danger of dying, it's in danger of losing potential profit! It's absolutely disgusting, those guys should thank their lucky stars they have such cool careers and be happy to provide a stable economic platform for their product to thrive in and not be chasing the greedy slime sucking all mighty profit margin!

The very idea that consumers are so willing to throw their money straight into the pocket books of tycoons is appalling and just, goddangit give your head a shake! Who cares if you can afford it? Surely if you can afford to spend over $100 on an incomplete starter set surely you can donate to some local charity too then! I work my butt off so that I can have a home to live in, food for my family and keep my standard of living, when and if I have the money for such lavish expenses as tabletop wargaming I have to really ask myself if I want to keep buying GW products. Apparently some of us as so carefree with our cash that we don't mind lining the pockets of complete strangers however.

This is how the rich become opulent and the poor become disgruntled. Mark my words gentlemen, blood will run in the streets... goopy forgeworld resin blood.

Welcome to capitalism, it's not perfect, but it's the best we've got. The fact that you state " have to really ask myself if I want to keep buying GW products" implies you still are, at least for now, which makes your whole statement a tad hypocritical.

Perhaps that could seem a tad hipocritical, but really it's not. I just got started into this whole tabletop wargaming thing, and for the most part I quite enjoy it, I really only cruise around on dakka and moan and complain when I'm bored or itching for a game but have no opponents. The only two things I have ever bought from GW was my CSM Battleforce, and half of a DV set, all the rest of my models are second hand, and some are even free! I would so love to be able to afford to have GW ship my toys directly to my door, I really would. It makes me jealous when the rich kids get their new toys before I do! I'm 28 btw... The point is though, the toys ought to be cheaper. Made more accessible if you like or whatever, but it is within GWs power to do, they could knock off 12% from every kit and still be laughing!

I guess I was just raised by baby boomers or whatever, I'm cheap, and damnably so. I don't begrudge others their success or whatever it is that allows them to drop $600 on something as luxurious as a wargaming model, but I do seriously question their judgement. $600 is a small car or a rent check and heck if you saved that much again well... you can see where that goes right? Three Titans later and you could have actually done something significant with that money. As for the time it may take to build a Titan? Well sure you might actually be able to save the money faster, all things considered, but once that sucker is done... man, there will be no other Titan in your eyes ever again and anyone who sees it and knows you built it will be impressed. Properly done I should think a tabletop army would be a thing to give to a son or daughter, or grandchild even. Imagine the look on your kids face when you hand them the keys to the Warhound, after they watched you build it and play with it for half their life...


Anyways...

I just think that it's quite a statement about human nature that people will spend so much money in the pursuit of happiness and others will take advantage of that, all the while never batting an eye. Perhaps my above post was a little hot and for that I apologize, but the sentiment nonetheless remains. People should be less willing to compromise, especially with their money.