Iron_Captain wrote:

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
Woaw Iron_Captain (Voor een Nederlander ben je toch mis geinformeerd als het om Rusland gaat).

IMHO is Russia a Democracy in Name only, the way it is run is more closely to China, the people have more to buy but government still limits what the people can do and say (remember Pussy riot?).

I am ill-informed about Russia for a Dutchman? Funny, considering that I am half Russian myself. I would guess I know more about Russia than 99% of the Dutch population. Most Dutchmen have never even been to Russia.
I've never said Russia is a democracy. Russia has never been a democracy and Russia will probably never be a democracy. Russia is as authoritarian as it has always been.

Aside from this, there is no country in the world that is a true (direct) democracy. Representive democracy is only a very flawed, light form of democracy.
Switzerland is the only country that comes close to being an actual democracy.

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
it is like we are back to the middle ages or roman empire where the government does what it wants and uses bread and play to keep the masses docile.

 Bromsy wrote:
Well, as a humanitarian gesture, any cute Ukrainian (or Hungarian I guess) girls who need a place to crash are welcome to use my couch; y'know, while all these troubles sort themselves out.

 sebster wrote:
For what it's worth, Hungary has been drifting in to dictatorship for a long time as well. As in, the inner circle of government has absolute freedom to spy on people in government, and can fire them if it finds anything it doesn't like (exactly what the legal limit on that is is scarily vague).

Kiev, Ukraine (CNN) -- Ukraine's Prime Minister Mykola Azarov submitted his resignation Tuesday in a bid to ease the political crisis rocking his country, according to a statement posted on the government's website.

His action is intended to "create more opportunities for social and political compromise for a peaceful settlement of the conflict," his statement said.

That conflict "is a threat to the entire Ukrainian society and every citizen," Azarov said, adding that the government was doing all it could to prevent bloodshed.

There is no word yet on whether President Viktor Yanukovych has accepted the resignation.

Azarov's move came as the country's Parliament met in a special session aimed at ending a political crisis that has sparked days of violent protests.

The lawmakers are due to debate the repeal of sweeping anti-protest laws rammed through Parliament on January 16 by members of Yanukovych's Party of Regions.

The Parliament held a moment's silence to remember the several people killed in demonstrations since the law was passed, state news agency Ukrinform reported.

Anger over the legislation escalated long-running anti-government protests into violent confrontations, with police and protesters fighting pitched battles in the capital's icy streets.

It's not clear how far the resignation of Azarov will go to satisfy the demands of protesters who, despite the cold and threat of violence, have massed in and around central Kiev's Independence Square, or Maidan, to demand Yanukovych's ouster and new elections.

Vitali Klitschko, leader of the opposition Ukrainian Democratic Alliance for Reforms party, or UDAR, told reporters he believed Azarov had submitted his resignation to avoid liability over the current situation.
"It is important to stop repression, which has burst out across the country by authorities when people are unreasonably thrown in jail. We must put an end to it. We will use any platform to defend the interests of people either at a parliamentary tribune, or in the streets," Klitschko said, according to his party's website.

Another round of talks was held Monday between the government and the opposition as they sought a resolution to the crisis.

Justice Minister Olena Lukash said Monday that opposition leader Arseniy Yatsenyuk, who heads the Fatherland Party, had refused Yanukovich's offer to be prime minister.

If he had accepted, he would have been able to dismiss the current government, which has been one of the protesters' demands. But he would likely have been seen as selling out by many of the protesters in the street.

Lukash said late Monday that the anti-protest laws passed on January 16 would be repealed and the protesters who occupied her ministry would receive amnesty -- as long as they cleared out of "all seized premises and roads."

Anti-government demonstrators had seized the Justice Ministry building on Sunday night but cleared out Monday after Lukash threatened to impose a state of emergency.

Opposition spokeswoman Lesya Orobets warned that such a step could lead to the use of military units to suppress protests.

The European Union's foreign policy chief, Catherine Ashton, who is expected to arrive Tuesday in Kiev in a bid to defuse the crisis, also urged the government not to impose a state of emergency.

The move "would trigger a further downward spiral for Ukraine, which would benefit no one," she said in a written statement late Monday.

"What is urgently needed is a genuine dialogue to build a new consensus on the way forward," Ashton said. "I hope that the Ukrainian parliament will set a clear path during tomorrow's session towards a political solution. This must include revoking the package of laws passed on 16 January."

Ashton will travel to Kiev after attending a long-planned "Russia summit" in Brussels, Belgium, with Russian President Vladimir Putin, her spokesman, Michael Mann, said Tuesday.

European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso and European Council President Herman Van Rompuy are also taking part in the summit. It's expected to last about 2.5 hours, shorter than originally planned, Mann said.

There have been tensions between Russia and the European Union over developments in Ukraine, with each side accusing the other of interference.

U.S. Vice President Joe Biden called Yanukovych on Monday night to reiterate American support for "a peaceful, political solution to the crisis," the White House said.

"Underscoring that no time should be lost, the vice president urged President Yanukovych to pull back riot police and work with the opposition on immediate measures to de-escalate tensions between protesters and the government," a White House readout of the call stated.

"He also urged the government to take concrete steps during tomorrow's parliamentary session to respond to the full and legitimate concerns of the Ukrainian people, including by repealing the anti-democratic laws passed on January 16."

Ukraine, a former Soviet republic, is home to 45 million people. The clashes over the past 10 days are an escalation of weeks of largely peaceful public protests prompted by Yanukovych's decision in November to spurn a planned trade deal with the European Union and turn toward Russia instead.

The mass protests have galvanized the opposition parties challenging Yanukovych and his government.

Opposition leader Vitali Klitschko, the former heavyweight boxing champion, said Sunday that he had rejected the post of deputy prime minister on humanitarian issues.

His announcement was greeted by loud cheers from the crowd -- but his UDAR party said it was ready to continue negotiations with the government.

After the talks Monday, Klitschko said he hoped Yanukovych's government would not invoke a state of emergency -- a step he said would "result in a new phase of the crisis escalation and will take us nowhere."

Kavik_Whitescar wrote:

 Bromsy wrote:
Well, as a humanitarian gesture, any cute Ukrainian (or Hungarian I guess) girls who need a place to crash are welcome to use my couch; y'know, while all these troubles sort themselves out.

Such a humanitarian, I cant stand and let you struggle alone! My bed and couches are also open to those mentioned above.

Can Dakka Dakka not provide enough beds for the attractive Ukranian (or Hungarian) gals who need a place to crash?

 sebster wrote:
For what it's worth, Hungary has been drifting in to dictatorship for a long time as well. As in, the inner circle of government has absolute freedom to spy on people in government, and can fire them if it finds anything it doesn't like (exactly what the legal limit on that is is scarily vague).

 Bromsy wrote:
Well, as a humanitarian gesture, any cute Ukrainian (or Hungarian I guess) girls who need a place to crash are welcome to use my couch; y'know, while all these troubles sort themselves out.

Kavik_Whitescar wrote:

Can Dakka Dakka not provide enough beds for the attractive Ukranian (or Hungarian) gals who need a place to crash?

 kronk wrote:

Kavik_Whitescar wrote:

Can Dakka Dakka not provide enough beds for the attractive Ukranian (or Hungarian) gals who need a place to crash?

My bed fit 7.5, but only 4 if they want to actually sleep.

Kiev, Ukraine (CNN) -- Ukraine is on the brink of civil war, the Eastern European country's first post-independence President warned Wednesday as parliament met again to debate a possible amnesty for protesters arrested during two months of demonstrations.

Leonid Kravchuk, Ukraine's President from 1991 to 1994, addressed a special parliamentary session to seek a way out of a deepening political crisis following weeks of mass protests that have crippled the capital, Kiev.
"Let's be honest, the situation is dramatic. Both Ukraine and the world recognize the country is on the brink of civil war," Kravchuk said.

Wednesday's session comes after a day of political upheaval when Prime Minister Mykola Azarov and his Cabinet resigned and draconian anti-protest laws were annulled.

Opposition politicians and activists welcomed the concessions made but said they were only a small step toward the change needed.

They want to see wide-ranging constitutional reform and a shake-up of the Ukrainian political system to shift the balance of power back toward parliament.

Opposition leader Vitali Klitschko, of the Ukrainian Democratic Alliance for Reforms party, or UDAR, said on his party's website that the resignation of President Viktor Yanukovych would be "a logical step."

Kiev's snow-covered streets remained calm Wednesday, namely around the demonstrators' makeshift barricades in the central Independence Square and a road leading up to parliament -- the scene of violent confrontations last week.

"I think the people should not leave the barricades," one Kiev resident told CNN. "Nothing is decided yet, let them decide -- now they just promise but don't make decisions. People are being tricked. They are tired of it."

Ukraine's parliament, or Verkhovna Rada, is considering legislation that might provide amnesty for more than 200 people arrested since the demonstrations began in late November, centered on Independence Square.

Debate began Tuesday but continued into Wednesday. "The amnesty issue is not simple and difficult negotiations continue," state news agency Ukrinform quoted parliament's chairman, Volodymyr Rybak, as saying Tuesday.

Nationalist opposition party Svoboda, or Freedom, led by Oleg Tiahnybok, said the main bone of contention is that the government insists protesters must leave Independence Square before any amnesty law can take effect.
"The opposition, of course, cannot accept this condition," said a statement on the party's website.

Klitschko told journalists he was opposed to any bloodshed, but that demands in the government's proposed amnesty bill remained unacceptable.

"People took to the streets because they want to change the situation. A statement 'We will free people, if they go home' is unacceptable. It cannot be understood," he is quoted as saying on the UDAR website.

"Today, the key issue is the confrontation between people and government. Withdrawal of charges and amnesty is not enough."

Parliament's vote Tuesday in favor of repealing the controversial anti-protest laws, rammed through January 16 in a show of hands by members of Yanukovych's Party of Regions, was overwhelming.

The repeal legislation has still to be signed off by Yanukovych.

Anger about the controversial anti-protest laws escalated the long-running protests into violent confrontations in the capital, with police and protesters fighting pitched battles among burning tires and barricades.

The legislation also prompted concern in the European Union and United States, where leaders condemned what appeared to be an attempt to limit freedom of speech and the right to protest.

EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton traveled to Kiev and met Yanukovych on Wednesday.

"It's important to stop the senseless violence. ... The dialogue that happens from time to time needs to become a real dialogue," Ashton later told a news conference.

"It's very clear that people are very keen to find a solution. ...There is no question of the importance of finding a quick way forward."

Under Ukrainian law, Azarov's resignation as prime minister triggered the resignation of his government with him.

But he and his Cabinet will continue in a caretaker function until a new government is formed, the presidential website said.

Arseniy Yatsenyuk, who heads the opposition Fatherland party, refused an offer from Yanukovych over the weekend to be prime minister.

Klitschko also turned down an offer to be vice prime minister of humanitarian affairs.

According to the law, a new government should be formed within 60 days.

Yanukovych's representative in parliament, Party of Regions lawmaker Yuriy Miroshnychenko, told parliament Wednesday that discussions on the makeup of a new Cabinet could begin next week, Ukrinform reported.

"We cannot talk about the political color of the government, because there is no response from the opposition regarding seats on the Cabinet of Ministers, and it will be clear only after the talks whether this is a technical government or a political government," he said, according to the news agency.

The next presidential election is due in March next year.

Ukraine, a former Soviet republic, is home to 45 million people. The recent clashes are an escalation of weeks of largely peaceful public protests prompted by Yanukovych's decision in November to spurn a planned trade deal with the European Union and turn toward Russia.

He and Russian President Vladimir Putin agreed on a $15 billion deal for Russia to buy Ukrainian debt and slash the price of natural gas.

Putin has denied that Moscow is exerting undue influence in Ukraine.
"Russia has always respected, is respecting and will respect the sovereign rights of all the international entities including new states that emerged after breakdown of the Soviet Union," Putin said, speaking after a summit Tuesday with senior EU figures in Belgium.

Putin also said Russia would stick to the loan and energy commitments to Ukraine -- agreed in December -- even if the opposition comes to power.

 Captain Fantastic wrote:
Looks like a smashing good time. I wish I lived in a cool country where freedom wasn't just something we read about in text books, but something that is truly alive and moving that people are willing to fight for, or at least pretend to be interested in at the chance to cause some mayhem.

 Captain Fantastic wrote:
Looks like a smashing good time. I wish I lived in a cool country where freedom wasn't just something we read about in text books, but something that is truly alive and moving that people are willing to fight for, or at least pretend to be interested in at the chance to cause some mayhem.

 Seaward wrote:

 Captain Fantastic wrote:
Looks like a smashing good time. I wish I lived in a cool country where freedom wasn't just something we read about in text books, but something that is truly alive and moving that people are willing to fight for, or at least pretend to be interested in at the chance to cause some mayhem.

What's so wrong with Japan?

 Captain Fantastic wrote:

I'm an American.

I'm sure the Japanese would be willing to fight for what they think is right, if they were ever confronted with something that demanded it. Preserving the Japanese identity, and the homogeneous society that they have built would be worth fighting for.

Ukrainian police are storming the main anti-government protest camp in the capital, Kiev, after months of occupation.

Explosions are taking place, fireworks are being thrown and large fires have broken out in Independence Square, known locally as the Maidan.

Police have deployed water cannon.

During the day, at least 13 people were killed, including six policemen, as protesters and security forces clashed in the worst violence in weeks.

 Palindrome wrote:
Its really kicked off in the Ukraine

Ukrainian police are storming the main anti-government protest camp in the capital, Kiev, after months of occupation.

Explosions are taking place, fireworks are being thrown and large fires have broken out in Independence Square, known locally as the Maidan.

Police have deployed water cannon.

During the day, at least 13 people were killed, including six policemen, as protesters and security forces clashed in the worst violence in weeks.

 Seaward wrote:

 Captain Fantastic wrote:

I'm an American.

I'm sure the Japanese would be willing to fight for what they think is right, if they were ever confronted with something that demanded it. Preserving the Japanese identity, and the homogeneous society that they have built would be worth fighting for.

But you think Americans wouldn't, huh?

Interesting. I suppose everything from Occupy Wall Street to the Civil Rights Movement to the Civil War to the Revolution itself are all examples of Americans failing to fight for what they believe to be right.

Maybe Ukrainians need to fight so hard right now because I myself am older than Ukrainian democracy? Maybe established, settled democracies with over two hundred years to their credit don't need to wage quite so many street battles anymore, having figured out rule of law and orderly succession and all that jazz? I don't know. I'm just spitballing here.

I didn't say that, but I'm amazed how much insanity is just swept under the carpet and ignored and left unchallenged.

Occupy? Occupy was a bunch of pretentious unemployed losers gathering in the streets on work-days to protest about "something". Occupy was a clear indication that the fine art of protesting has disappeared from American Society.

 whembly wrote:
Jeebus...



*boggles mind*