Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2014/03/03 06:14:23
Subject: Re:Ukraine: Witness the making of a dictatorship, live!
Iron_Captain wrote: It does. The Autonomous Republic of Crimea (and the city of Sevastopol) does not recognise the government in Kiev. This means that they are the highest possible authority in charge of their territory and therefore they need to take care of their own defense and foreign relations until the crisis is resolved. Nobody else can take care of those matters at the moment as the Ukrainian government does not have any jurisdiction over Crimea anymore, and so the Crimean authorities need to take decisions themselves.
It doesn't matter whether they recognise the government in Kiev or not. The Ukrainian Constitution means that they do not have the power to invite in a military force from another country. As it stands Crimea is still currently a part of Ukraine and is still bound by it's constitution
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tyran wrote: It seems Russia decided to skip the "war of independence" part. Maybe it is for the best as it avoids unnecessary deaths.
Do you know what really prevents unnecessary deaths? Not marching your military into foreign countries
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/03 06:19:09
2014/03/03 08:06:54
Subject: Ukraine: Witness the making of a dictatorship, live!
It doesn't matter whether they recognise the government in Kiev or not. The Ukrainian Constitution means that they do not have the power to invite in a military force from another co
So what you're saying is that if a Government falls apart, and is for all intents and purposes non-existent, nobody who was ruled by that now defunct government is legally allowed to make a new one, even if they're doing it democratically?
By that logic, practically just about every country in existence is illegal if you trace it back far enough.
2014/03/03 11:01:14
Subject: Re:Ukraine: Witness the making of a dictatorship, live!
Many dakka members have probably been wondering at my absence these past few days . Well, I can reveal that I've been burning the midnight oil and drawing up battle plans! It's time to slay that Russian bear once and for all. Apologies to any Russian members of dakka!
Operation Market Dakka Storm
Objective: To invade the Russian Federation, defeat its military, force the Russians into unconditional surrender, and place Putin on trial in the Hague on whatever charge we make up!
Timescale: 6 weeks. Operation Market Dakka Storm will commence at 0400hrs April 3rd 2014 this will allow the build-up of NATO troops in neighbouring countries, and will allow the United States Air Force Time to gain air supremacy. Once operation commences, I predict that after some initial resistance, the Soviet, er, Russian military machine will crumble under the NATO onslaught, and NATO troops could be in Moscow by mid-May. Early NATO success could force a Russian surrender sooner, so we must be alive to any opportunities that may arise.
Market Dakka Storm consists of 3 parts:
Market
The US XVIII airborne corps (101st, 82nd, and the re-activated 17th) in conjunction with British 1st airborne division will be dropped into the heart of Russia to seize key bridges and/or vital river crossings. Special Forces will infiltrate behind the lines, attacking targets of opportunity (vodka factories, etc) to weaken Russian moral.
Dakka
A two pronged attack from North and South.
North - The US 10th Mountain division, Royal Marines, and the armies of Sweden, Finland, and Norway, will attack St Petersburg, Murmansk, seize the gulf of Finland (bottling up the Russian Baltic fleet) and tying down Russian forces in the north.
South - The I,II, and III, Marine Expeditionary forces, in conjunction with the Turkish Military (and supported by whatever US Navy Taskforce is nearby at the time! ) will attack the Crimea from Turkish Black Sea Bases, driving out Russian forces, linking up with the Ukrainian Military, and liberating the Crimea.
Storm: The best part. No more mucking around! We show those amateurs Hitler and Napoleon on how it's done!
The US Army V corps, III (I want it re-activated for historical reasons! ) and the British Royal Armoured Corps, will drive straight for Moscow, linking up with Airborne elements that have captured the bridges, and brining the campaign to a swift and speedy conclusion.
People might mutter things about post war reconstruction, but who cares about that!
All I need is Congress and the Pentagon to give the green light.
US posters will grumble about their taxes paying for this, and the fact that my foreign policy seems to consist of myself fighting to the last American Marine, but you guys are the global superpower. With great power comes great responsibility
Any feedback on my plans would be appreciated!
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2014/03/03 11:12:44
Subject: Re:Ukraine: Witness the making of a dictatorship, live!
John Kerry wrote:“You just don’t in the 21st century behave in 19th century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped up pre-text,”
I'm sorry, What?
Seriously.
If the thought of something makes me giggle for longer than 15 seconds, I am to assume that I am not allowed to do it. item 87, skippys list
DC:70S+++G+++M+++B+++I++Pw40k86/f#-D+++++A++++/cWD86R+++++T(D)DM++
2014/03/03 11:32:37
Subject: Ukraine: Witness the making of a dictatorship, live!
Tyran wrote: It is curious the similarities with the American-Mexican war, a land grab started because a part of a weaker country secedes because internal conflict in the capital (and because Texas loves slavery) and then asks a stronger neighbor help.
Sorry we'd already kicked Mexico's ass by then, thank you very much.
whembly wrote: Uh... VP Biden is on his way to Kiev... then what?
Oh... also this via twittah:
#BreakingNews #US Navy USS George Bush nuclear aircraft carrier declares high alert in the #Mediterranean. #Syria #Ukraine #Russia
3:08 PM - 1 Mar 2014
Well, that makes sense. Biden is the administration's foreign policy muscle.
I wonder if they told him there was a crisis before they put him on the plane.
I wonder if they put gas in the plane.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Many dakka members have probably been wondering at my absence these past few days . Well, I can reveal that I've been burning the midnight oil and drawing up battle plans! It's time to slay that Russian bear once and for all. Apologies to any Russian members of dakka!
Operation Market Dakka Storm
Objective: To invade the Russian Federation, defeat its military, force the Russians into unconditional surrender, and place Putin on trial in the Hague on whatever charge we make up!
Timescale: 6 weeks. Operation Market Dakka Storm will commence at 0400hrs April 3rd 2014 this will allow the build-up of NATO troops in neighbouring countries, and will allow the United States Air Force Time to gain air supremacy. Once operation commences, I predict that after some initial resistance, the Soviet, er, Russian military machine will crumble under the NATO onslaught, and NATO troops could be in Moscow by mid-May. Early NATO success could force a Russian surrender sooner, so we must be alive to any opportunities that may arise.
Market Dakka Storm consists of 3 parts:
Market
The US XVIII airborne corps (101st, 82nd, and the re-activated 17th) in conjunction with British 1st airborne division will be dropped into the heart of Russia to seize key bridges and/or vital river crossings. Special Forces will infiltrate behind the lines, attacking targets of opportunity (vodka factories, etc) to weaken Russian moral.
Dakka
A two pronged attack from North and South.
North - The US 10th Mountain division, Royal Marines, and the armies of Sweden, Finland, and Norway, will attack St Petersburg, Murmansk, seize the gulf of Finland (bottling up the Russian Baltic fleet) and tying down Russian forces in the north.
South - The I,II, and III, Marine Expeditionary forces, in conjunction with the Turkish Military (and supported by whatever US Navy Taskforce is nearby at the time! ) will attack the Crimea from Turkish Black Sea Bases, driving out Russian forces, linking up with the Ukrainian Military, and liberating the Crimea.
Storm: The best part. No more mucking around! We show those amateurs Hitler and Napoleon on how it's done!
The US Army V corps, III (I want it re-activated for historical reasons! ) and the British Royal Armoured Corps, will drive straight for Moscow, linking up with Airborne elements that have captured the bridges, and brining the campaign to a swift and speedy conclusion.
People might mutter things about post war reconstruction, but who cares about that!
All I need is Congress and the Pentagon to give the green light.
US posters will grumble about their taxes paying for this, and the fact that my foreign policy seems to consist of myself fighting to the last American Marine, but you guys are the global superpower. With great power comes great responsibility
Any feedback on my plans would be appreciated!
Just one. You need Zombie Patton to lead the land forces, and Zombie Reagan to be in overall command.
"Drive me closer so I can shoot that Russian son of a with my revolver!" Zombie Patton, from atop his Leopard II.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/03/03 12:01:40
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2014/03/03 12:15:14
Subject: Re:Ukraine: Witness the making of a dictatorship, live!
Indeed. And one country emerged from it as the world's sole superpower, the other suffered a disastrous collapse of economic, political, and diplomatic influence. It's almost enough to make you think that simply wishing it away should have a back-up plan that's actually actionable for when linking hands and singing fails.
Ignoring the weird Cold War nonsense, what would you suggest that such a back-up plan should consist of?
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2014/03/03 12:31:47
Subject: Re:Ukraine: Witness the making of a dictatorship, live!
Iron_Captain wrote: It does. The Autonomous Republic of Crimea (and the city of Sevastopol) does not recognise the government in Kiev. This means that they are the highest possible authority in charge of their territory and therefore they need to take care of their own defense and foreign relations until the crisis is resolved. Nobody else can take care of those matters at the moment as the Ukrainian government does not have any jurisdiction over Crimea anymore, and so the Crimean authorities need to take decisions themselves.
It doesn't matter whether they recognise the government in Kiev or not. The Ukrainian Constitution means that they do not have the power to invite in a military force from another country. As it stands Crimea is still currently a part of Ukraine and is still bound by it's constitution
No, the unelected Ukrainian parliament changed the constitution undemocratically, thereby making it invalid. They took away the equal rights of ethnic minorities in the Ukraine, which is why this whole crisis started in the first place.
Do you know what really prevents unnecessary deaths? Not marching your military into foreign countries
Never heard of a peacekeeping force?
The current and previous crisis in the Ukraine is something that is coming from the people. On both sides there are extremist radicals that need to be kept in check. As the Ukrainian government has been (partly) taken over by these radicals, the Ukrainian military and government could no longer be trusted to protect its people. That is why the ethnic Russians in Crimea asked Russia to send soldiers to protect them, so they may keep a referendum on independence from Ukraine without being harassed by the Ukrainian government and radicals, who do not want Crimea to secede, and trust me, the Ukrainians would be willing to use violence to keep Crimea part of Ukraine.
Error 404: Interesting signature not found
2014/03/03 12:38:50
Subject: Re:Ukraine: Witness the making of a dictatorship, live!
Obama regretting that Cold War statement when Romney viewed Putin as a Geo Political adversary.
So besides Russian fighters playing tag in airspace. Anymore/additional ground unit move out from Sevastopol Naval Base? Actual cross the border? Or still the two Brigades operating outside of the base?
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
2014/03/03 13:08:13
Subject: Re:Ukraine: Witness the making of a dictatorship, live!
Jihadin wrote: Obama regretting that Cold War statement when Romney viewed Putin as a Geo Political adversary.
So besides Russian fighters playing tag in airspace. Anymore/additional ground unit move out from Sevastopol Naval Base? Actual cross the border? Or still the two Brigades operating outside of the base?
I am not sure. Most Russian soldiers currently active on Crimea wear the uniforms of Sevastopol's naval infantry, but seeing the latest pictures, there is also an unfamiliar division of Motostrelki involved. Russia has definitely have moved in addtional troops.
Its still 6K troops. Saw somewhere of a Airborne unit was moved in Either/or looking at two brigades of troops securing the airfield at both Sevastopol and Simperopolever. Locking down the Ukraine unit on its base 15-20 miles south on M18 which seems to be an armored unit being the Ukraine moved a tank to the gate. Securing the highway of M17...Putin really playing his cards well. He is not losing that base. He's probably wondering when everyone else going to notice what he is doing because he hasn't expanded so far from the reports beyond securing the logistical and comm lines. Now to really get him in a jam Have the new Ukraine government announce it will honor the agreements concerning Sevastopol Naval Base So far it seems the new government not going to honor it.
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
2014/03/03 13:25:04
Subject: Re:Ukraine: Witness the making of a dictatorship, live!
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2014/03/03 13:31:20
Subject: Re:Ukraine: Witness the making of a dictatorship, live!
Jihadin wrote: He is not losing that base. He's probably wondering when everyone else going to notice what he is doing because he hasn't expanded so far from the reports beyond securing the logistical and comm lines.
He knows that everyone important knows what he wants. The question is only whether or not anyone with the ability to obstruct him from getting it is willing to do so; my guess is no.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2014/03/03 13:42:35
Subject: Re:Ukraine: Witness the making of a dictatorship, live!
I'm sure the Ukrainian military command knows what he is doing. Same way I'm tracking it. Except they have more info to go off of. There still two Ukraine military bases under lockdown but no location giving I'm thinking they're located along M17 or north of Simferopol on M18. Saw somewhere about Ukrainian Marines hold up near the Russian border..like maybe ten miles off the border but they're holed up and not locked down as in waiting to see what's going to happen
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
2014/03/03 13:43:16
Subject: Re:Ukraine: Witness the making of a dictatorship, live!
The Budapest Memorandum, signed by Britain, Ukraine, the United States and Russia, agreed to uphold the territorial integrity of Ukraine's borders.
Now Ukraine have called on Britain to keep up its end of the bargain.
Article one of the agreement reads: "The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine ... to respect the Independence and Sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine."
The call comes after the Russian government unanimously approved the deployment of Russian troops to the Crimea.
However, it couldn't have been better timed. So long as the British government 'estimate' that they'll be ready to deploy after, say, the 18th of September? And perhaps a sudden change of mind on Scottish independence from key people, and hey ho, waddayaknow? The treaty was signed by the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Very sorry chaps, there's no such country any more. There's a United Kingdom of England, Wales, and Northern Ireland, but not of Great Britain since Scottland are independent.
The Kasrkin were just men. It made their actions all the more astonishing. Six white blurs, they fell upon the cultists, lasguns barking at close range. They wasted no shots. One shot, one kill. - Eisenhorn: Malleus
2014/03/03 14:47:28
Subject: Re:Ukraine: Witness the making of a dictatorship, live!
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Many dakka members have probably been wondering at my absence these past few days . Well, I can reveal that I've been burning the midnight oil and drawing up battle plans! It's time to slay that Russian bear once and for all. Apologies to any Russian members of dakka!
Operation Market Dakka Storm
Objective: To invade the Russian Federation, defeat its military, force the Russians into unconditional surrender, and place Putin on trial in the Hague on whatever charge we make up!
Timescale: 6 weeks. Operation Market Dakka Storm will commence at 0400hrs April 3rd 2014 this will allow the build-up of NATO troops in neighbouring countries, and will allow the United States Air Force Time to gain air supremacy. Once operation commences, I predict that after some initial resistance, the Soviet, er, Russian military machine will crumble under the NATO onslaught, and NATO troops could be in Moscow by mid-May. Early NATO success could force a Russian surrender sooner, so we must be alive to any opportunities that may arise.
Market Dakka Storm consists of 3 parts:
Market
The US XVIII airborne corps (101st, 82nd, and the re-activated 17th) in conjunction with British 1st airborne division will be dropped into the heart of Russia to seize key bridges and/or vital river crossings. Special Forces will infiltrate behind the lines, attacking targets of opportunity (vodka factories, etc) to weaken Russian moral.
Dakka
A two pronged attack from North and South.
North - The US 10th Mountain division, Royal Marines, and the armies of Sweden, Finland, and Norway, will attack St Petersburg, Murmansk, seize the gulf of Finland (bottling up the Russian Baltic fleet) and tying down Russian forces in the north.
South - The I,II, and III, Marine Expeditionary forces, in conjunction with the Turkish Military (and supported by whatever US Navy Taskforce is nearby at the time! ) will attack the Crimea from Turkish Black Sea Bases, driving out Russian forces, linking up with the Ukrainian Military, and liberating the Crimea.
Storm: The best part. No more mucking around! We show those amateurs Hitler and Napoleon on how it's done!
The US Army V corps, III (I want it re-activated for historical reasons! ) and the British Royal Armoured Corps, will drive straight for Moscow, linking up with Airborne elements that have captured the bridges, and brining the campaign to a swift and speedy conclusion.
People might mutter things about post war reconstruction, but who cares about that!
All I need is Congress and the Pentagon to give the green light.
US posters will grumble about their taxes paying for this, and the fact that my foreign policy seems to consist of myself fighting to the last American Marine, but you guys are the global superpower. With great power comes great responsibility
Any feedback on my plans would be appreciated!
But what about the radios, they worked well enough in the desert, but there is a great deal more trees in the Peninsula.
This plan just seems a bridge too far, don't you think?
Armies: Space Marines, IG, Tyranids, Eldar, Necrons, Orks, Dark Eldar.
I am the best 40k player in my town, I always win! Of course, I am the only player of 40k in my town.
So you're in favour of my three-pronged attack , then?
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2014/03/03 14:53:22
Subject: Ukraine: Witness the making of a dictatorship, live!
So you're in favour of my three-pronged attack , then?
Well you raise Zombie Reagan and ZOmbie Patton and I'm a believer. When Zombie Reagan says march this way, you go!
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2014/03/03 14:56:31
Subject: Ukraine: Witness the making of a dictatorship, live!
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Many dakka members have probably been wondering at my absence these past few days . Well, I can reveal that I've been burning the midnight oil and drawing up battle plans! It's time to slay that Russian bear once and for all. Apologies to any Russian members of dakka!
Operation Market Dakka Storm
Objective: To invade the Russian Federation, defeat its military, force the Russians into unconditional surrender, and place Putin on trial in the Hague on whatever charge we make up!
Timescale: 6 weeks. Operation Market Dakka Storm will commence at 0400hrs April 3rd 2014 this will allow the build-up of NATO troops in neighbouring countries, and will allow the United States Air Force Time to gain air supremacy. Once operation commences, I predict that after some initial resistance, the Soviet, er, Russian military machine will crumble under the NATO onslaught, and NATO troops could be in Moscow by mid-May. Early NATO success could force a Russian surrender sooner, so we must be alive to any opportunities that may arise.
Market Dakka Storm consists of 3 parts:
Market
The US XVIII airborne corps (101st, 82nd, and the re-activated 17th) in conjunction with British 1st airborne division will be dropped into the heart of Russia to seize key bridges and/or vital river crossings. Special Forces will infiltrate behind the lines, attacking targets of opportunity (vodka factories, etc) to weaken Russian moral.
Dakka
A two pronged attack from North and South.
North - The US 10th Mountain division, Royal Marines, and the armies of Sweden, Finland, and Norway, will attack St Petersburg, Murmansk, seize the gulf of Finland (bottling up the Russian Baltic fleet) and tying down Russian forces in the north.
South - The I,II, and III, Marine Expeditionary forces, in conjunction with the Turkish Military (and supported by whatever US Navy Taskforce is nearby at the time! ) will attack the Crimea from Turkish Black Sea Bases, driving out Russian forces, linking up with the Ukrainian Military, and liberating the Crimea.
Storm: The best part. No more mucking around! We show those amateurs Hitler and Napoleon on how it's done!
The US Army V corps, III (I want it re-activated for historical reasons! ) and the British Royal Armoured Corps, will drive straight for Moscow, linking up with Airborne elements that have captured the bridges, and brining the campaign to a swift and speedy conclusion.
People might mutter things about post war reconstruction, but who cares about that!
All I need is Congress and the Pentagon to give the green light.
US posters will grumble about their taxes paying for this, and the fact that my foreign policy seems to consist of myself fighting to the last American Marine, but you guys are the global superpower. With great power comes great responsibility
Any feedback on my plans would be appreciated!
But what about the radios, they worked well enough in the desert, but there is a great deal more trees in the Peninsula.
This plan just seems a bridge too far, don't you think?
This is a bold plan, and it's boldness that wins wars...that and superior military force, tactics, leadership, morale, innovation, will to win, etc etc
In the history of mankind has there ever been a greater opportunity to defeat Russia? I mean, to have France, USA, Britain, Germany! and Luxembourg all on the same side. Has there ever been a greater military alliance?
I can't believe America is stalling on this. The country that gave us Stonewall Jackson, Patton, MacArthur, Lighthorse Lee et al
Just say the word Congress, pass that act that will temporary promote me to General of the Armies, and I'll lead them in myself!
If anybody is wondering why I'm gripped with war fever of late...well...I've just started playing Total War Empire!
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2014/03/03 15:00:06
Subject: Ukraine: Witness the making of a dictatorship, live!
It seems Russia decided to skip the "war of independence" part. Maybe it is for the best as it avoids unnecessary deaths.
So you think that it's ok to give into the demands of force as long as it avoids unnecessary deaths?
If you don't have a chance in hell of resisting then yeah.
6,000 troops are in the country. Ukraine has 150,000 active Soldiers. They can resist. If things get worse, they can call for help. It would make it extremely easy for Russia to look like the unwelcome aggressor here, and the world would have no choice but to make some kind of response.
Full Frontal Nerdity
2014/03/03 15:04:54
Subject: Re:Ukraine: Witness the making of a dictatorship, live!
The Budapest Memorandum, signed by Britain, Ukraine, the United States and Russia, agreed to uphold the territorial integrity of Ukraine's borders.
Now Ukraine have called on Britain to keep up its end of the bargain.
Article one of the agreement reads: "The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine ... to respect the Independence and Sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine."
The call comes after the Russian government unanimously approved the deployment of Russian troops to the Crimea.
However, it couldn't have been better timed. So long as the British government 'estimate' that they'll be ready to deploy after, say, the 18th of September? And perhaps a sudden change of mind on Scottish independence from key people, and hey ho, waddayaknow? The treaty was signed by the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Very sorry chaps, there's no such country any more. There's a United Kingdom of England, Wales, and Northern Ireland, but not of Great Britain since Scottland are independent.
I'm in class right now. I turn to my friend, who's a reservist, and say "oh well Tony. By the way you're going to war". We've been working all year on a project too. Let's see if tensions can be staved off long enough for poor Tony to graduate and snag a promotion so if he does have fight he's not just a gunner in the artillery.
I'd like to hear Putin's responce to that treaty mind you.
2014/03/03 15:05:18
Subject: Ukraine: Witness the making of a dictatorship, live!
Defeating in open warfare no. Resisting, you bet they can. These guys invented partizan warfare...
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2014/03/03 15:07:22
Subject: Ukraine: Witness the making of a dictatorship, live!
It seems Russia decided to skip the "war of independence" part. Maybe it is for the best as it avoids unnecessary deaths.
So you think that it's ok to give into the demands of force as long as it avoids unnecessary deaths?
If you don't have a chance in hell of resisting then yeah.
6,000 troops are in the country. Ukraine has 150,000 active Soldiers. They can resist. If things get worse, they can call for help. It would make it extremely easy for Russia to look like the unwelcome aggressor here, and the world would have no choice but to make some kind of response.
Ukraine need the West to send help to stand a chance, and the West doesn't seems to want to start a war over Crimea.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Frazzled wrote: Defeating in open warfare no. Resisting, you bet they can. These guys invented partizan warfare...
Luckily Russia already has the support of the Crimeans and a part of Eastern Ukraine.
Meanwhile Ukraine is facing desertion, and this army didn't do a thing to help Yanu, I don't see them helping the new administration, or at least not the whole of it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/03 15:14:31
2014/03/03 15:22:33
Subject: Ukraine: Witness the making of a dictatorship, live!
It seems Russia decided to skip the "war of independence" part. Maybe it is for the best as it avoids unnecessary deaths.
So you think that it's ok to give into the demands of force as long as it avoids unnecessary deaths?
If you don't have a chance in hell of resisting then yeah.
6,000 troops are in the country. Ukraine has 150,000 active Soldiers. They can resist. If things get worse, they can call for help. It would make it extremely easy for Russia to look like the unwelcome aggressor here, and the world would have no choice but to make some kind of response.
The problem is that a large part of the Ukrainian army is not loyal to the government in Kiev. Many units and officers have already defected or refused to follow orders, and more are sure to follow. It is also not just Russia that is involved here. The local population plays a major role, and if Kiev would start to take action against them, well that would be exactly what Russia needs to justify a full-scale invasion. The rest of the world simply can't really do much about it, as the former general-secretary of NATO just said on Dutch television. The EU can't take action against Russia because that would severely damage the European economy, and the US needs to remain on friendly terms with Russia because Russian cooperation is needed in dealing with Iran and Syria. (also, not to get back to the military dick measuring, but the general secretary of NATO himself just said that the EU is a military dwarf compared to Russia )
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/03 15:24:01