easysauce wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
Can you imagine the political impact if Putin points that out on media. "Hey Obama...Kerry....those are um..hate to break it to you.Those are Neo Nazis your supporting as new government and also the 1 billion dollar funding you just authorized to assist them.."

I rather go kick a cow pile on a warm hot humid day then get slap with that

yeah, I am not sure the blow back would be very bad, apparently a lot of Dakka is OK with neo nazi involvement in this revolution,and if thats an indicator of general US sentiment... I am truely afraid of what kind of evils people will ignore.

, at least 20% of flags in this picture have the yellow+blue fist on their flag, either as the neo-natzi party flag, or the ukraine flag with the neo-nazi fist on top of it. There plenty more are the co aligned UDAR in red, bringing the % up.

one or two flags is a fringe group... but when its a very visable, and identifiable part of the people there, and when prominent neo-nazi party leaders get such important appointations, it means something is WRONG.

Seriously, how many neo-nazis waving neo-swastikas does it take before some people go "hmmmm, maybe these guys waving swastikas are not the best people to be appointed to positions of power via violent revolution"

would you be happily protesting along side people waving swastikas? I know I would not.

if you can only count 5 hands on flags in this picture... you are seriously missing things... there are plenty, and while I cannot enhance the zoom, lots of the "ukrainian" flags have the fist super imposed on it, as well as the UDAR red flags being in a coalition with the neo nazis as wel..

 JB wrote:
While I agree that there are significant numbers of militant neo-nazis involved in the Maidan and that the US media is incorrectly oversimplifying events and actors, I disagree with any contention that the neo-nazis make up a sizeable proportion of the overall Ukrainian population.

Russia is correct that the current Ukrainian government is not legally legitimate. The interim government is on thin legal ground at this point and only a plebiscite will restore legitimacy. Putin is less correct to claim a high threat to the people in Ukraine that self-identify as Russian, but he's probably justified at this point in some effort to secure Russian bases and Russian people in the Crimea until things settle down. However, seizing government buildings, airports, and threatening Ukrainians is not as well justified.

The big question is whether Russia will try to permanently separate Crimea or all of eastern Ukraine. My guess is that Putin will seek to do this even though it is not a technically legal move because the Crimean peninsula is too important and probably never should have been given to the Ukrainian SSR. That was a stupid move by Khruschev.

 d-usa wrote:
Nationalists =/= nazis.
30% nationalists =/= 30% nazis.
30% nationalists =/= 100% protestors.

There are extremists in every group. Democrats and Republicans. Even in whatever political party or ideology you support.

To ignore the whole of them because a portion are donkey caves is juvenile.

 sarpedons-right-hand wrote:
Don't know if this has been posted yet, but it seems that our Russian friends are flexing their muscles again….

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26442381

It's getting fruity….

 easysauce wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Nationalists =/= nazis.
30% nationalists =/= 30% nazis.
30% nationalists =/= 100% protestors.

There are extremists in every group. Democrats and Republicans. Even in whatever political party or ideology you support.

To ignore the whole of them because a portion are donkey caves is juvenile.

"In the Ukrainian parliament, where Svoboda holds an unprecedented 37 seats, " out of 450... thats almost 10% of seats...

thats not a minor # of seats... thats a significant % of people who had to vote neo nazi to get their party almost 10% of parliament

 whembly wrote:

 sarpedons-right-hand wrote:
Don't know if this has been posted yet, but it seems that our Russian friends are flexing their muscles again….

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26442381

It's getting fruity….

Simple response... send some Aegis ships in the Mediterranean.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 sarpedons-right-hand wrote:
Don't know if this has been posted yet, but it seems that our Russian friends are flexing their muscles again….

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26442381

It's getting fruity….

Simple response... send some Aegis ships in the Mediterranean.

Won't help against the missile that was just tested. The Topol-M was designed specifically to be able to evade all existing anti-missile systems

 whembly wrote:

10% whackos?

That's actually about right in just about every country.

Near Simferopol, Ukraine (CNN) -- In the wake of Russia's invasion of Crimea, the mood here Tuesday was tense, but the streets appeared eerily calm.

Ukraine's Crimea region has become the flashpoint in a geopolitical crisis that has embroiled London, Washington, the United Nations and NATO.

In the days since they crossed the border into this strategically important peninsula on the Black Sea, Russian forces have surrounded 10 Ukrainian military bases -- 16,000 troops in the past week, according to Ukrainian officials.

There has been no fighting -- or loss of life -- but there were ample signs of preparation.

The situation in Simferopol, Crimea's regional capital, is almost surreal. Rumor, confusion and outlandish claims mix freely -- and reality is difficult to pin down. On the surface, the capital seems undisturbed. Shops are open, people sit in cafes, the buses and trams are running normally.

And then there are pockets -- especially around the parliament and other Crimean government buildings -- where the discord hangs in the air.

These places have moved firmly into the pro-Russian camp, where the Russian and Crimean flags are flying and the yellow-and-blue flag of Ukraine is not. Knots of men, most of them burly, middle-aged and chain-smoking, gather outside the buildings recently taken over by pro-Russian parties. They say they are defending the rights of Russians in a country led by people they see as ultranationalist Ukrainians. They say they relish the prospect of a referendum this month that could see Crimea "decoupled" from Ukraine.

On the streets appears a truckload of men in uniform, not Ukrainian, for sure, but not identifiably Russian. They are close to Ukrainian military compounds, where troops remain inside, largely out of sight.
Similar standoffs are playing out around barracks and bases in far-flung corners of Crimea. Here, there has been no violence. Instead, the hint of camaraderie among fellow soldiers can be discerned.

People anxiously await what comes next
But among Ukrainians and Tatars, a predominantly Muslim group, living here, there is a sense of foreboding, one that most of them are reluctant to express. There are no pro-Kiev demonstrations, perhaps for fear of the consequences. And so people go on living their lives as best they can, waiting anxiously for what comes next.

About 12 miles (20 kilometers) southeast of Simferopol, about 100 Russian soldiers at a Ukrainian military base were digging in against a backdrop of rolling hills, They parked their troop-moving vehicles, excavated a series of mini trenches in the dirt and erected mess tents.

Apparently oblivious to the international tensions over Russia's moves, they were carrying on civil conversations with Ukrainian soldiers and moving about freely.

It all appeared fairly friendly. The Russian soldiers treated their presence as nothing special, even as it made nearby residents uncomfortable.

Much of the tension here stems from generations of heritage and tradition. Ethnic Russians have lived in Crimea for centuries, and many of the current generation look upon Moscow's forces as friendly protectors.

What's happening? Depends on whom you ask
That view may not be shared by many of those Crimean residents with Ukrainian roots.

This unease manifests itself in small ways. On one side, wives of Ukrainian soldiers complained it would be difficult for their husbands to swear allegiance to pro-Russian leadership when they had already done so to Kiev. On the other, residents sometimes approached Russian soldiers and shook their hands — slapping them on the back in signs of support.

The Russian soldiers seemed to be trying to keep it low-key. Their uniforms bore no Russian army insignia that might inflame anti-Russian Ukrainians.

Standoff near air base
But forces remained poised to react to the slightest provocation. As more than 100 unarmed Ukrainian soldiers tried Tuesday morning to return to Belbek Air Base, a Ukrainian military base north of Sevastopol, Russian forces fired warning shots over their heads.

Video shot by one of the Ukrainian soldiers showed the Ukrainians continuing to move forward. In the video, a Russian, holding his weapon, orders them to halt their advance: "I have orders; I will shoot you in the legs if you come any further."

The Ukrainian commander responded that they had no weapons and that the Russians were in control.

The two sides then negotiated, and 15 of the Ukrainian soldiers were granted passage onto the base.

The commander told CNN he had been ordered to surrender the base by noon, but the deadline passed without incident.

He said he had been told to sign a document swearing allegiance to the local government, but he was unwilling to do so and continued to take orders from Kiev.
On the road to the base, pro-Russian civilians blocked the entrance to journalists. On the other side of a barricade stood Ukrainian soldiers. Beyond them, at the main entrance to the base, were Russian soldiers, CNN was told.

The commander said he had tried to speak through an intermediary with the Russian forces to arrange a meeting to defuse the situation but had not succeeded.

The base's structure complicated the situation -- it is home not only to Ukrainian service members but also to their families.

And even the source of much of the tension was uncertain. One Ukrainian military commander said he had received anonymous phone calls threatening him and his family if he did not surrender to Russian forces.

Russian President Vladimir Putin has yet to acknowledge the forces here are even Russian, but a commander of troops -- who are wearing Russian uniforms without identifying insignia and driving vehicles bearing Russian plates -- was frank. He told CNN he came from a Russian city near Crimea and had been dispatched by his commanding officer from Sevastopol to a ferry port on the eastern side of the Crimean peninsula.

A different feel in Kiev
The mood was different hundreds of miles away in Ukraine's capital of Kiev, which is more European in its location and self-image. Protesters waved posters depicting caricatures of Putin and declared their willingness to fight against Russian forces, if necessary.

The newly installed, pro-European interim central government is shaky, at best. Ousted President Viktor Yanukovych fled more than a week ago in the wake of protests in Kiev's Independence Square, where snipers from nearby rooftops killed scores of demonstrators.

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry arrived Tuesday in Kiev and surveyed a makeshift memorial to the dead before meeting with the Ukrainian interim administration about the Russian incursion and a promised $1 billion in U.S. loan guarantees to help the country rebuild its shattered economy.

Flowers and flags marked the spot of the killings. One person left a poem that read, "Mother, I'm sorry I had to go. I was shot by the police because I couldn't turn back."


A crisis in Crimea is the last thing the new government needs -- and residents want.

"The amount of propaganda Russia has poured onto Ukraine is hard to comprehend," said Maia Mikhaluk, a freelance photographer and Christian ministry worker in Ukraine. "Putting troops on Ukrainian land is going to bring the very opposite result from what Putin expected: I believe it's uniting Ukraine."

Russian state-run TV offered a different view, blaming the crisis on far-right radicals aided by the West.
Russian news reports note that Ukrainians had called for a ban on teaching the Russian language in schools. That proposed ban has been rescinded, but the reports created an emotional reaction among Russians.

“No one wants the United Nations to suffer the fate of the League of Nations, which collapsed because it lacked real leverage. This is possible if influential countries bypass the United Nations and take military action without Security Council authorization.”

If I was there I would shove that flag up his fat arse. Makes me sick listening to nationalists spewing hate and trying to start a war which could get tens of thousands killed. I guess people just love their songs and rags so much they're willing to risk the lives of so manypeople just to make a point and gesture.Scum.

 purplefood wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 sarpedons-right-hand wrote:
Don't know if this has been posted yet, but it seems that our Russian friends are flexing their muscles again….

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26442381

It's getting fruity….

Simple response... send some Aegis ships in the Mediterranean.

Won't help against the missile that was just tested. The Topol-M was designed specifically to be able to evade all existing anti-missile systems

Because every time we design something it works perfectly...

 Jihadin wrote:

If I was there I would shove that flag up his fat arse. Makes me sick listening to nationalists spewing hate and trying to start a war which could get tens of thousands killed. I guess people just love their songs and rags so much they're willing to risk the lives of so manypeople just to make a point and gesture.Scum.

So you would be willing to turn warning shots into killing shots?. Notice the officer on Ukraine side pretty much put his men in check? No one else notice the crew serve weapon mounted on the truck in the back ground Nor the squad on the left flank of the Ukrainians? I'm going to assume the sknny guy talking to the officer is either a NCO or an officer. So an officer talked to an officer or an NCO talked to the officer Both had a good handle on their troops

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Those soldiers are necessary for that referendum to happen. The Ukrainian authorities would've never allowed Crimea to secede. Now that Crimea is protected by Russian soldiers, the referendum about independence is possible and can happen without fear of disturbances and radical groups.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
So why not ask a neutral third party to intervene? It's rather unsuitable for a party that stands to gain from one of the possible outcomes of the referrendum to "guarantee the safety" of said referendum.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10675146/Ukraine-Russian-troops-fire-warning-shots-at-Crimea-airbase.html Wow, what a beautiful example of how the Western media can corrupt things sometimes. They immediatly start dragging Russia into it again, making it seem like Russia is the agressor. The units involved where not Russian soldiers, they were Crimeans, Ukrainian army defectors. Most of the units at Belbek Air Base defected a few days ago.
Also, the negotiations went peaceful and some of the Ukrainians were even allowed to return to the base.

chaos0xomega wrote:

 purplefood wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 sarpedons-right-hand wrote:
Don't know if this has been posted yet, but it seems that our Russian friends are flexing their muscles again….

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26442381

It's getting fruity….

Simple response... send some Aegis ships in the Mediterranean.

Won't help against the missile that was just tested. The Topol-M was designed specifically to be able to evade all existing anti-missile systems

Because every time we design something it works perfectly...

He's only like 12, he doesn't know any better...

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10675146/Ukraine-Russian-troops-fire-warning-shots-at-Crimea-airbase.html Wow, what a beautiful example of how the Western media can corrupt things sometimes. They immediatly start dragging Russia into it again, making it seem like Russia is the agressor. The units involved where not Russian soldiers, they were Crimeans, Ukrainian army defectors. Most of the units at Belbek Air Base defected a few days ago.
Also, the negotiations went peaceful and some of the Ukrainians were even allowed to return to the base.

If they defected, that means that they are no longer Ukrainian soldiers, but Russian soldiers...

 Iron_Captain wrote:
What do you have against Russia?