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Made in gb
Bryan Ansell





Birmingham, UK

To counter Russian propaganda regarding the protection of Jews and their rights.

http://eajc.org/page32/news43672.html

Open letter of Ukrainian Jews to Russian Federation President Vladimir Putin. Rebuff claims of anti semitism.

Spoiler:
Mr. President!

We are Jewish citizens of Ukraine: businessmen, managers, public figures, scientists and scholars, artists and musicians. We are addressing you on behalf of the multi-national people of Ukraine, Ukraine's national minorities, and on behalf of the Jewish community.

You have stated that Russia wants to protect the rights of the Russian-speaking citizens of the Crimea and all of Ukraine and that these rights have been flouted by the current Ukrainian government. Historically, Ukrainian Jews are also mostly Russian-speaking. Thus, our opinion on what is happening carries no less weight than the opinion of those who advise and inform you.

We do not believe that you are easy to fool. You consciously pick and choose lies and slander from the massive amount of information about Ukraine. And you know very well that Victor Yanukovich's statement concerning the time after the latest treaty had been signed that “...Kyiv is full of armed people who have begun to trash buildings, places of worship, churches. Innocent people have begun to suffer. People have simply been robbed and killed in the street...” are lies, from the first word to the very last.

The Russian-speaking citizens of Ukraine are not being humiliated or discriminated against, their civil rights have not been limited. Meanderings about “forced Ukrainization” and “bans on the Russian language” that have been so common in Russian media are on the heads of those who invented them. Your certainty of the growth of anti-Semitism in Ukraine also does not correspond to the actual facts. It seems you have confused Ukraine with Russia, where Jewish organizations have noticed growth in anti-Semitic tendencies last year.

Right now, after Ukraine has survived a difficult political crisis, many of us have wound up on different sides of the barricades. The Jews of Ukraine, as all ethnic groups, are not absolutely unified in their opinion towards what is happening in the country. But we live in a democratic country and can afford a difference of opinion.

They have tried to scare us (and are continuing their attempts) with “Bandera followers” and “Fascists” attempting to wrest away the helm of Ukrainian society, with imminent Jewish progroms. Yes, we are well aware that the political opposition and the forces of social protests who have secured changes for the better are made up of different groups. They include nationalistic groups, but even the most marginal do not dare show anti-Semitism or other xenophobic behavior. And we certainly know that our very few nationalists are well-controlled by civil society and the new Ukrainian government – which is more than can be said for the Russian neo-Nazis, who are encouraged by your security services.

We have a great mutual understanding with the new government, and a partnership is in the works. There are quite a few national minority representatives in the Cabinet of Ministers: the Minister of Internal Affairs is Armenian, the Vice Prime Minister is a Jew, two ministers are Russian. The newly-appointed governors of Ukraine's region are also not exclusively Ukrainian.

Unfortunately, we must admit that in recent days stability in our country has been threatened. And this threat is coming from the Russian government, namely – from you personally. It is your policy of inciting separatism and crude pressure placed on Ukraine that threatens us and all Ukrainian people, including those who live in Crimea and the Ukrainian South-East. South-eastern Ukrainians will soon see that for themselves.

Vladimir Vladimirovich, we highly value your concern about the safety and rights of Ukrainian national minorities. But we do not wish to be “defended” by sundering Ukraine and annexing its territory. We decisively call for you not to intervene in internal Ukrainian affairs, to return the Russian armed forces to their normal fixed peacetime location, and to stop encouraging pro-Russian separatism.

Vladimir Vladimirovich, we are quite capable of protecting our rights in a constructive dialogue and in cooperation with the government and civil society of a sovereign, democratic, and united Ukraine. We strongly urge you not to destabilize the situation in our country and to stop your attempts of delegitimizing the new Ukrainian government.

Signed:

Josef Zisels Chairman of the Association of Jewish Communities and Organizations of Ukraine (VAAD) Ukraine, Executive Vice President of the Congress of National Communities of Ukraine

Alexander Suslensky D.Sc., Vice President of the Jewish Confederation of Ukraine, businessman

Andrei Adamovsky First Vice President of the Jewish Confederation of Ukraine, member of the “Hillel” Jewish Student organization Observation Council (citizen of Russia)

Rabbi Alex Dukhovny Head Rabbi of the Ukrainian Progressive Judaism communities

Rabbi Reuven Stamov Head Rabbi of the Ukrainian Traditional Judaism communities

Alexander Paskhaver Member of the VAAD Ukraine Coordation Council, economist

Leonid Finberg Director of the NaUKMA Center for the Studies of History and Culture of Eastern European Jewry, VAAD Ukraine Vice Chairman

Anatoliy Podolsky Director of the Ukrainian Center for Holocaust Studies, Vice Chairman of VAAD Ukraine

Igor Kuperberg Chairman of the Zionist Federation of Ukraine, Vice Chairman of VAAD Ukraine

Semen Belman Vice President of the Jewish Council of Ukraine, President of the Chernigiv Jewish Community

Alexander Gaidar Leader of the Union of Ukrainian Progressive Judaism Religious Communities

Vyacheslav Likhachev CNCU Chief expert in monitoring and analysing xenophobia and anti-Semitism, member of the VAAD Ukraine Coordination Council(citizen of Russia and Israel)

Michael Gold Editor-in-chief of the VAAD Ukraine newspaper “Hadashot”

Galina Haraz Engineer (citizen of Ukraine and Israel)

Igor Turov PhD in history, Director of the Jewish Studies Certificate Program of VAAD Ukraine, VAAD Ukraine Presidium member

Diana Gold VAAD Ukraine Presidium member

Alexander Roitburg Artist

Evgen Greben Director of the “Maccabi” Jewish Cultural and Sports Society (Kyiv)

Grigoriy Pickman “B'nei B'rith Leopolis” President

Igor Kerez VAAD Ukraine Trustee Board member, businessman

Artem Fedorchuk, Director of the Intarnationsl Centar on Jewish Education and Field Studies

(Signatures still being collected)
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





 Mr. Burning wrote:


Not sure why you are aiming at me sunshine......


Sorry. Assumed it was the same person.

Comment retracted.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Breotan wrote:
In what parallel universe do any of the dots even allow you to draw a picture like that?




Iraq War - illegal. Stated justification apparently a fabrication. America's allegations that Iraq was linked to Al Qaeda were never proven, and were later backtracked on.

Libya - Interfered in a civil war against a regime that was no longer a threat to the USA and (IMO) none of America's (and Britain's) business. Libya's status as a state sponsor of terrorism removed in 2006. If the invervention was humanitarian, then that creates a precedent for Russia's pretext of a "humanitarian intervention" to "protect ethnic Russians in Crimea. Obviously that pretext is bs as they're doing first and foremost to to protect their naval bases and strategic influence, but it remains that America's actions set a precedent that Russia could exploit.


Syria - failed attempt to supply and support known Muslim extremist organisations with weaponry, and an aborted attempt at an undeclared war "Limited Strike" against the Syrian Government.

Pakistan - use of drone strikes, violating a supposed Ally's national sovereignty and murdering civilians causing "collateral damage".

Yemen - ditto, minus the "supposed Ally".


America has a track record of ignoring international law and opinion when convenient in order to pursue and protect its national interests whether political, economic or strategic. Russia has seen how America gets away with it, and has decided "If they can break the law to protect their interests, we can too". Therefore, America's cries of outrage that Russia has broken international law by invading a foreign sovereign nation sound rather hollow.If America expects other countries to obey international law and refrain from invading other countries and launching wars of aggression without just cause then perhaps it should start by setting an example.

 djones520 wrote:


Right... because Russia doesn't have a history of being an imperialistic power predating the existence of the United States...

Hold on while I try to find my I'm not laughing my ass off at your idiotic assertion face.


Right, because America doesn't have its own history of launching illegal wars of aggression against countries that just coincidentally happen to have lots of natural resources like oil, and lying about the reasons for doing so.

Hold on while I face palm at your total lack of awareness of your own country's hypocrisy and Double Speak.


 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
I was and remain bitterly opposed to the invasion of Iraq, it compromised the US and allies military capacity to deal with Afghanistan and was carried out for reasons that appear to be total lies.


And you still think your own country's past conduct has no bearing on what Russia thinks it can and cannot get away with?






This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2014/03/10 20:58:49


 
   
Made in gb
Bryan Ansell





Birmingham, UK

No-ones hands are clean and yet It doesn't make whats happening on the Crimean peninsula right. Morally, at least.

This back and forth over who did what to who is getting tiresome. I think most of us posting ITT have a passing familiarity with the errors of various world leaders and governments of the past.

And has been explained before MGS originally came from the UK. Not his fault he comes from the cornish tin mines though.




This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/10 21:33:02


 
   
Made in nl
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






 Mr. Burning wrote:
No-ones hands are clean and yet It doesn't make whats happening on the Crimean peninsula right. Morally, at least.

This back and forth over who did what to who is getting tiresome. I think most of us posting ITT have a passing familiarity with the errors of various world leaders and governments of the past.

And has been explained before MGS originally came from the UK. Not his fault he comes from the cornish tin mines though.
What is happening on the Crimea is morally right. Legally not, but most Crimeans want to be part of Russia and support current events. That makes it morally right to me. The Crimeans have a right to determine their own future, something the Ukrainian state would have never allowed. I am grateful that Russia makes this referendum possible. The only thing I am worried about is what will hapen after the referendum. Whether the Crimeans choose to be part of Russia or Ukraine, there is probably going to be trouble.

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Made in gb
Bryan Ansell





Birmingham, UK

Do they? or do they want to be an autonomous republic? with recognition from Russia?

I get the feeling that Crimeans want to be Crimean.
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





 Mr. Burning wrote:
Do they? or do they want to be an autonomous republic? with recognition from Russia?

I get the feeling that Crimeans want to be Crimean.


But the Kiev government won't even allow that, never mind Crimea joining the Russian Federation.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/10 21:56:32


 
   
Made in gb
Bryan Ansell





Birmingham, UK

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
 Mr. Burning wrote:
Do they? or do they want to be an autonomous republic? with recognition from Russia?

I get the feeling that Crimeans want to be Crimean.


But the Kiev government won't even allow that, never mind Crimea joining the Russian Federation.


Ukraine do not have a government. Their duly elected leader is off hiding somewhere.

   
Made in nl
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






 Mr. Burning wrote:
Do they? or do they want to be an autonomous republic? with recognition from Russia?

I get the feeling that Crimeans want to be Crimean.
They already are an autonomous republic. The option is between becoming a federal subject of Russia (likely retaining the same autonomous status) or restoring the 1992 Crimean constitution, in which Crimea is a part of Ukraine, but has even more autonomy than it does have now. In any case, Crimeans will still be Crimeans first and Russians second, just like it is now.
Unfortenately there is no option for making Crimea a completely independent country, but becoming part of Russia is probably the best option either way. Most Crimeans seem to be in favour of joining Russia, as most Crimeans are Russian-speaking and joining Russia is also likely to bring economic benefits. The West has already said they won't recognise Crimea becoming part of Russia, so that might cause long-term problems though.

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Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Swindon, Wiltshire, UK

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
 Corpsesarefun wrote:
Frazzled's views haven't changed since the the stone age, let alone the cold war. Also it's telling that you believe only Russians can comment on the history of the cold war.


He said that only a Russian is qualified to comment on Russian public opinion during the Cold War. Its telling that you're still twisting his words after he explained how you were twisting his words.


Why on earth should you need to be Russian to comment on Russian public opinion in the cold war? In fact why should a Russian (even one that was there at the time) have a better understanding of the general public opinion at the time than a specialised non-Russian historian?
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot




WA

What does the rest of Ukraine have in terms of resources, economic viability, etc without Crimea?

"So, do please come along when we're promoting something new and need photos for the facebook page or to send to our regional manager, do please engage in our gaming when we're pushing something specific hard and need to get the little kiddies drifting past to want to come in an see what all the fuss is about. But otherwise, stay the feth out, you smelly, antisocial bastards, because we're scared you are going to say something that goes against our mantra of absolute devotion to the corporate motherland and we actually perceive any of you who've been gaming more than a year to be a hostile entity as you've been exposed to the internet and 'dangerous ideas'. " - MeanGreenStompa

"Then someone mentions Infinity and everyone ignores it because no one really plays it." - nkelsch

FREEDOM!!!
- d-usa 
   
Made in us
Fate-Controlling Farseer





Fort Campbell

 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:
What does the rest of Ukraine have in terms of resources, economic viability, etc without Crimea?


As I understand it, nothing.

Full Frontal Nerdity 
   
Made in nl
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






Corpsesarefun wrote:
 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
 Corpsesarefun wrote:
Frazzled's views haven't changed since the the stone age, let alone the cold war. Also it's telling that you believe only Russians can comment on the history of the cold war.


He said that only a Russian is qualified to comment on Russian public opinion during the Cold War. Its telling that you're still twisting his words after he explained how you were twisting his words.


Why on earth should you need to be Russian to comment on Russian public opinion in the cold war? In fact why should a Russian (even one that was there at the time) have a better understanding of the general public opinion at the time than a specialised non-Russian historian?
I also did not say that only a Russian is able to comment on Russian public opinion. A non-Russian who has studied Russian public opinions might in fact be even better qualified to comment on the matter. I would love it if people would stop twisting my words.
Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:What does the rest of Ukraine have in terms of resources, economic viability, etc without Crimea?
Crimea is one of the wealthier regions of Ukraine, but as long as the rest of the southeast does not secede, they should be fine. The Southeast is by far the wealthiest region in Ukraine, and it contains most of Ukraines industry. If the southeast does secede, the west of Ukraine would be left even poorer than it is now.

Error 404: Interesting signature not found

 
   
Made in gb
Morphing Obliterator






I believe Crimea doesn't really have anything, it's eastern Ukraine that has all of the industry.

See, you're trying to use people logic. DM uses Mandelogic, which we've established has 2+2=quack. - Aerethan
Putin.....would make a Vulcan Intelligence officer cry. - Jihadin
AFAIK, there is only one world, and it is the real world. - Iron_Captain
DakkaRank Comment: I sound like a Power Ranger.
TFOL and proud. Also a Forge World Fan.
I should really paint some of my models instead of browsing forums. 
   
Made in us
Fate-Controlling Farseer





Fort Campbell

 -Shrike- wrote:
I believe Crimea doesn't really have anything, it's eastern Ukraine that has all of the industry.


That's all in the Crimea. The ports, the oil and gas lines, the industry. It's all there. That is why Russia is making their power play there instead of the rest of the "pro-russian" portions of the country. They just want the boost to their economy that it would secure, while crippling one of their neighbors.

Full Frontal Nerdity 
   
Made in gb
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

 djones520 wrote:
 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:
What does the rest of Ukraine have in terms of resources, economic viability, etc without Crimea?


As I understand it, nothing.


Quite a few IT jobs, apparently a number of computer software companies here in the UK have been outsourcing to the Ukraine. Although, I have no idea what part of the country they are based in.

Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
 
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority






I can't wrap my head around the concept that "Most of Crimea wants to be Russian, so they should be Russia and screw the minority that don't want to be Russian." So if you ever get 51% of the vote you get to completely ignore the needs and desires of the other 49%?

You can literally change yourself into another country with a history of and vested interest in marginalizing and subjugating minority peoples - because of rumors that if you don't do that, you will be marginalized as a minority people.

I assume there are at least a few towns/villages/districts/ what have you in Crimea that are majority ethnic Ukranian or Tartar? How is forcing them to go along with the rest of Crimea better or different than forcing Crimea to go along with the rest of the Ukraine?
   
Made in us
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges




United States

 djones520 wrote:

That's all in the Crimea. The ports, the oil and gas lines, the industry. It's all there. That is why Russia is making their power play there instead of the rest of the "pro-russian" portions of the country. They just want the boost to their economy that it would secure, while crippling one of their neighbors.


That's not true. The majority of Ukrainian mining production is outside Crimea. Specifically, Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporhizia, and Dnipropetrovsk. And none of the major gas pipelines pas though Crimea either.

This is all about Sevastopol.

Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
Made in us
Imperial Admiral




 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Pakistan - use of drone strikes, violating a supposed Ally's national sovereignty and murdering civilians causing "collateral damage".

Yemen - ditto, minus the "supposed Ally".

Is it really a violation of national sovereignty if the government of the country in question has approved it?

   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





prelude to WW3?

hello 
   
Made in us
Most Glorious Grey Seer





Everett, WA

The mind-bending level of ignorance displayed in this thread (from multiple posters) keeps me from wanting to engage in debate. Seriously, people, stop drinking the Kool-aid. Russia has been pulling crap since WWII. They never needed to use America as an excuse before and they don't need to do it now. Putin wants to rebuild the glorious Soviet Union, pure and simple. Even if America was pure as the wind-driven snow, he'd still be doing this crap in Ukraine.


 
   
Made in us
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges




United States

 Breotan wrote:
The mind-bending level of ignorance displayed in this thread (from multiple posters) keeps me from wanting to engage in debate. Seriously, people, stop drinking the Kool-aid. Russia has been pulling crap since WWII. They never needed to use America as an excuse before and they don't need to do it now. Putin wants to rebuild the glorious Soviet Union, pure and simple. Even if America was pure as the wind-driven snow, he'd still be doing this crap in Ukraine.


And yet here you are, engaging in debate and "...drinking the Kool-aid." as you are wont to do.

Putin probably would be "...doing this crap..." in the Ukraine, provided there happened to be a revolution there. The US is not relevant in this situation.

Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
Made in nl
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






RT just posted this statement from my favourite Russian political party: Fair Russia (sometimes also called A Just Russia in English.).
So I thought I'd post this here and see what the esteemed members of DakkaDakka think of their stance on the conflict.
The Russian center-left has sent foreign allies a memorandum blaming the Ukrainian opposition for an anti-constitutional coup, and warning the European stance towards the Ukrainian extreme right can only aggravate the situation.

The document was prepared by Fair Russia- the socialist parliamentary party which is a member of the Socialist International – the association of 156 leftist parties that endeavour to establish democratic socialism in 126 countries in the world.

Fair Russia said that the decision to prepare was because of the need to counter the blatant anti-Russian approach in Western media coverage of the Ukrainian events.

According to Russian socialists, Viktor Yanukovich really had demonstrated his inability to cope with the turmoil and had de-facto ceased to be president, but at the same time, de-jure he remains the lawfully elected leader of the state because his ousting took place outside the constitutional impeachment procedure.

This circumstance makes the Kiev events an anti-constitutional coup and Fair Russia blames the Ukrainian opposition, in particular Vitaly Klitchko,Arseniy Yatsenyuk and Oleg Tyagnibok, for breaching the agreement they signed with the authorities on February 21. Foreign ministers of Germany and Poland as well as the head of the European Department of the French Foreign Ministry must also share the blame as they acted as guarantors of this deal, but applied no pressure to the opposition for withdrawing from it, the memorandum reads.

It was the inaction of the European officials that instigated the activities of the Right Sector radical group manned by nationalists and neo-fascists whose primary motto is Ukraine for Ukrainians, the Russian message reads. According to Fair Russia, the Right Sector controls about 15,000 well armed extremists who used threats and violence to force the authorities in several regions into cooperating with the "Maidan" movement. The Russian party told its foreign allies that the leaders of Ukrainian rightist have called on the eviction of Russians and Jews from the country or even physical extermination of these groups.

The nationalist Liberty party headed by Tyagnibok has already pushed through the parliament the cancellation of the law ordering punishment for fascist and Nazi propaganda as well as the law that allowed Ukrainian regions to introduce additional national languages spoken by large minorities of the population.

Russian leftists claim the real power in Ukraine belongs to the militants representing the Rights Sector and the legitimate opposition leaders who hold talks with foreign governments have little political weight.The attacks on regional authorities in the eastern and south-eastern parts of the country directly threatened the rights and security of the population, and all this left Russian leaders no other choice but to state their readiness to protect ethnic Russians and Russian-speakers in the neighboring country.

Fair Russia holds that it was only because of the Upper House’s decision to allow President Vladimir Putin to use military force in Ukraine that negated the threat of ultranationalists seizing power in the eastern and south-eastern regions.

The Russian party called upon all of its partners from the Socialist International to deliver aid to the Ukrainian people and also expect them to publicly denounce the nationalist ideology of the Ukrainian opposition as well as the actions of the rightist extremists. According to Fair Russia only the free, honest and universal elections can now restore the legitimate state structures in Ukraine.

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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 Breotan wrote:
The mind-bending level of ignorance displayed in this thread (from multiple posters) keeps me from wanting to engage in debate. Seriously, people, stop drinking the Kool-aid. Russia has been pulling crap since WWII. They never needed to use America as an excuse before and they don't need to do it now. Putin wants to rebuild the glorious Soviet Union, pure and simple. Even if America was pure as the wind-driven snow, he'd still be doing this crap in Ukraine.



I'm shocked, just shocked you would say such a thing.Shocked...
Hungary
Czechloslavakia
Afghanistan
Chechnya
Georgia
Ukraine


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges




United States

 Frazzled wrote:

Hungary
Czechloslavakia
Afghanistan
Chechnya
Georgia
Ukraine


Hungary freely agreed to that nuclear deal.
Czechoslovakia isn't a county.
Russian relations with Afghanistan are adversarial at best.
Chechnya is RF territory.
The relevant region of Georgia and the Ukraine are dominated by ethnic Russians.

Try again.

Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Soviet troops invaded Hungary in the 50s
Soviet troops invaded Czechloslavakia in the 60s
Soviet troops invaded Afghanistan in the 70s
Chenya was conquered by the Czars, then freed then reconquered.
Russians invaded Georgia in 2008
Russians invaded Crimea in 2014.


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in nl
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






 Frazzled wrote:
Soviet troops invaded Hungary in the 50s
Soviet troops invaded Czechloslavakia in the 60s
Soviet troops invaded Afghanistan in the 70s
Chenya was conquered by the Czars, then freed then reconquered.
Russians invaded Georgia in 2008
Russians invaded Crimea in 2014.

So what is the purpose of this? Shall we also list all the places the US has invaded (not counting the World Wars)?
Since 1900:
Philippines
China
Mexico
Nicaragua
Haiti
Dominican Republic
(WW1)
Russia
(WW2)
Puerto Rico
Korea
Vietnam
Laos
Lebanon
Cuba
Dominican Republic
Cambodia
Grenada
Panama
Iraq
Yugoslavia
Haiti
Afghanistan
Iraq
Libya
That list is a lot longer than the Russian one, and most of those invasions are of highly dubious legality. Can you imagine that the US sounds very hypocritical when accusing others of unlawfully invading and bullying smaller nations around?
Also, Soviet Union ≠ Russian Federation.

Error 404: Interesting signature not found

 
   
Made in pt
Tea-Kettle of Blood




 Iron_Captain wrote:
Lots and lots of nonsense


Could you, pretty please, stop posting nonsense in this thread? Pretty please? I would actually like to follow these news without being constantly bombarded by your Russian propaganda and blatant ignorance of world affairs...
   
Made in nl
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






PhantomViper wrote:
 Iron_Captain wrote:
Lots and lots of nonsense


Could you, pretty please, stop posting nonsense in this thread? Pretty please? I would actually like to follow these news without being constantly bombarded by your Russian propaganda and blatant ignorance of world affairs...
Than maybe you should not read it, if you can't handle divergent opinions. I do not post propaganda, I give my opininion on the situation in Ukraine and react to (sometimes nonsensical) posts by other people here.
Alternatively, you may consider actually posting something useful and contributing to the discussion.

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Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 Iron_Captain wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
Soviet troops invaded Hungary in the 50s
Soviet troops invaded Czechloslavakia in the 60s
Soviet troops invaded Afghanistan in the 70s
Chenya was conquered by the Czars, then freed then reconquered.
Russians invaded Georgia in 2008
Russians invaded Crimea in 2014.

So what is the purpose of this? Shall we also list all the places the US has invaded (not counting the World Wars)?
Since 1900:
Philippines
China
Mexico
Nicaragua
Haiti
Dominican Republic
(WW1)
Russia
(WW2)
Puerto Rico
Korea
Vietnam
Laos
Lebanon
Cuba
Dominican Republic
Cambodia
Grenada
Panama
Iraq
Yugoslavia
Haiti
Afghanistan
Iraq
Libya
That list is a lot longer than the Russian one, and most of those invasions are of highly dubious legality. Can you imagine that the US sounds very hypocritical when accusing others of unlawfully invading and bullying smaller nations around?
Also, Soviet Union ≠ Russian Federation.


False comparison. If all your friends jumped off a cliff would you? Russia developed its empire from conquering other countries. Just because there have been other empires doesn't make them any better. Thats like saying, just because Russia conquered the Baltic states Nazi Germany was ok dokey. Russia is an empire. It failed and lost many of its subjugated territories (but not all). Its trying to get some of them back now. Do I care? Not really. I just don't want to play Cold War II.

I didn't list all the guerilla campaigns the USSR was involved in. There's a reason the AK is by far the most common weapon in history just this side of the spear.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PhantomViper wrote:
 Iron_Captain wrote:
Lots and lots of nonsense


Could you, pretty please, stop posting nonsense in this thread? Pretty please? I would actually like to follow these news without being constantly bombarded by your Russian propaganda and blatant ignorance of world affairs...


Put him on Ignore. It helps except when others quote the Ignored Party.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/03/11 14:50:00


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard




Catskills in NYS

 Iron_Captain wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
Soviet troops invaded Hungary in the 50s
Soviet troops invaded Czechloslavakia in the 60s
Soviet troops invaded Afghanistan in the 70s
Chenya was conquered by the Czars, then freed then reconquered.
Russians invaded Georgia in 2008
Russians invaded Crimea in 2014.

So what is the purpose of this? Shall we also list all the places the US has invaded (not counting the World Wars)?
Since 1900:
Philippines
China
Mexico
Nicaragua
Haiti
Dominican Republic
(WW1)
Russia
(WW2)
Puerto Rico
Korea
Vietnam
Laos
Lebanon
Cuba
Dominican Republic
Cambodia
Grenada
Panama
Iraq
Yugoslavia
Haiti
Afghanistan
Iraq
Libya
That list is a lot longer than the Russian one, and most of those invasions are of highly dubious legality. Can you imagine that the US sounds very hypocritical when accusing others of unlawfully invading and bullying smaller nations around?
Also, Soviet Union ≠ Russian Federation.

And that justifies this how exactly?

Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
 kronk wrote:
Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
 sebster wrote:
Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
 BaronIveagh wrote:
Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
 
   
 
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