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Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





Private Eye 1362 wrote:HAGUE 'STARK WARNING TO PUTIN'

Whilst on a visit to Kiev the British Foreign Secretary William Hague has issued a stark warning to Vladimir Putin that unless Russia withdraws its troops from Crimea, Western leaders will continue to tweet pictures of themselves on the phone looking pensive to each other.

"Already today we've seen a number of tweets of David Cameron on the phone to Barack Obama doing his slightly constipated face," the Foreign Secretary told reporters. "President Putin needs to understand that the West is united in its determination to look really quite cross".

"At the moment they're only frowning but we are ruling nothing out - including tutting and even blowing air out of their cheeks. We hope the fact that these pictures are getting hundreds of re-tweets means President Putin knows the West means business".



This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/04 15:47:33


 
   
Made in us
Most Glorious Grey Seer





Everett, WA

Be careful what you wish for... cause gak is getting real in Crimea.

Danielle Wiener-Bronner wrote:Crimeans Cut Off from Methadone and McDonald's After Annexation



As Western leaders continue attempts to cajole and threaten Russia away from Crimea, the Kremlin is beginning to flex its muscle in the region — starting with shuttering methadone clinics that help rehabilitate heroin addicts, and likely prompting the decision by McDonald's to temporarily close its Crimea locations.

According to the Associated Press, local doctors promised the 800 patients who visit the clinics that the program, in place for five years, would be extended at least throughout 2014. But Russia’s Federal Drug Control Service chief Viktor Ivanov issued a harsh statement against the program, which is illegal in Russia, saying it will be shut down without offering concessions to its users. Ivanov, quoted in Russian news agency ITAR-TASS, maligned the program, saying:
Methadone is not a cure. Practically all methadone supplies in Ukraine were circulating on the secondary market and distributed as a narcotic drug in the absence of proper control. As a result, it spread to the shadow market and traded there at much higher prices. It became a source of criminal incomes
Andriy Klepikov, the executive director of the International HIV/AIDS Alliance in Ukraine, discussed the urgency of the situation in a blog post on The Huffington Post, saying that they could be without the drug in a few short weeks:
n Sevastopol substitution therapy sites have already been compelled to start decreasing patients' dosage. There is a very strong likelihood that these opioid substitution therapy patients will go into withdrawal and potentially revert to illegal drugs, which in turn puts them at much greater risk of contracting HIV through dirty needle
Ukrainian officials say they will not continue to send methadone to Crimea, and recommend that those seeking treatment move to the mainland. The methadone clinics have been used to help stop the spread of HIV in Crimea, and their ban could mean a reversal of any steps taken towards containing the disease. The AP reports:
The ban could undermine years of efforts to reduce the spread of AIDS in Crimea; some 12,000 of the region's 2 million people are HIV-positive, a 2012 UNICEF survey found. After years of rapid growth in the infection rate, the Ukrainian Health Ministry reported the first decline in 2012. Many have attributed that decline to methadone therapy. According to the International HIV/AIDS Alliance of Ukraine... drug injectors accounted for 62 percent of new HIV infections in Ukraine in 2002. By 2013, that number was down to 33 percent.
If anything, Russia could benefit from some methadone clinics of its own. HIV is spreading quickly in the country — Russian Federal AIDS Center said the number of registered HIV patients spiked by 11 percent in 2013.

Some Crimeans will also have to wean themselves off a (not serious) addiction as McDonald's plans to close down its locations in the region, for now. According to the company, "due to operational reasons beyond our control, McDonald's has taken the decision to temporarily close our three restaurants in Simferopol, Sevastopol and Yalta." Reuters reports that employees at these locations can relocate to branches in Ukraine, for the same pay and three months rent. The company added, "We understand and respect each employee's decision. If they do not wish to move to another city in Ukraine we will, in accordance with Ukrainian law, offer options to end their employment with a redundancy payment." McDonald's European headquarters said the plan is to "re-open our restaurants as soon as possible."

As far as we can tell, that makes two excellent reasons for Crimea to defect from Russia and return to Ukraine.




 
   
Made in us
Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard




Catskills in NYS

Well people will eat less bad foods, but it's bad for addicts. I wonder if they cancel each other out.

Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
 kronk wrote:
Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
 sebster wrote:
Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
 BaronIveagh wrote:
Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
 
   
Made in nl
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces








http://rt.com/news/donetsk-republic-protestukraine-841/
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/04/07/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/index.html?hpt=ieu_c1
Looks like it is not over yet.
I need more popcorn.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/07 14:45:33


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Made in gb
Bryan Ansell





Birmingham, UK

Donetsk a republic - Is this now the kind of revolution the EU and America supports?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26919928

Ukraine crisis: Protesters declare Donetsk 'republic'

Pro-Russian protesters who seized the regional government building in the Ukrainian city of Donetsk are reported to have declared a "people's republic".

The rebels have called for a referendum on secession from Ukraine by 11 May.

Ukrainian security officials are being sent to the eastern cities of Donetsk, Luhansk and Kharkiv after pro-Russia groups occupied government buildings.

Interim President Oleksandr Turchynov called the unrest an attempt by Russia to "dismember" Ukraine.

Continue reading the main story
At the scene

image of Steve Rosenberg
Steve Rosenberg
BBC News, Donetsk
When I was in Donetsk three weeks ago, the regional administration building reminded me of a fortress: it was protected by a ring of riot police, barbed wire and water cannon parked in the yard.

Looking at the building this evening, the change couldn't be more dramatic. The police have disappeared. In their place, pro-Russia activists are chanting "Russia! Russia!" Russian flags are flying from flagpoles outside.

The number of protesters on the square isn't large: 1,000 at most. And it was only a few hundred who stormed the building last night. What's more, surveys show that separatist sentiment in Donetsk and other parts of eastern Ukraine is not strong.

But small numbers can achieve big things when there is a power vacuum. And so far, the pro-Kiev authorities in Donetsk appear unable to restore order.

In an address on national TV, he said it was "the second wave" of a Russian operation to destabilise Ukraine, overthrow the government and disrupt planned elections.

Russia's foreign ministry accused Kiev of "blaming" Moscow for all its troubles.

But US Secretary of State John Kerry said that the events "did not appear to be spontaneous".

He called on Russia to "publicly disavow the activities of separatists, saboteurs and provocateurs" in a phone call to his Russian counterpart Sergei Lavrov.

The pair also discussed convening direct talks between Ukraine, Russia, the US and the European Union within ten days, the US state department said.

'War with Russia'
Russia recently annexed Ukraine's Crimean peninsula after a referendum there which Ukraine did not see as valid.

As tensions mounted on Monday, Ukrainian Foreign Minister Andriy Deshchytsya told Russia's Ekho Moskvy news agency that Kiev would go to war with Russia if it sent troops into eastern Ukraine.

Moscow has thousands of troops massed along its border with Ukraine. It says it has no intention of invading but reserves the right to protect the rights of ethnic Russians.

BBC Moscow correspondent Daniel Sandford says Donetsk - an industrial city with a population of about a million - differs from Crimea in that it has many Ukrainian speakers as well as a Russian-speaking majority.

Opinion polls there have shown considerable support for a united Ukraine, he adds.


Footage shows an unnamed delegate addressing the Donetsk Region People's Council, to declare it a "people's republic"
Online footage showed a Russian speaker telling the Donetsk assembly: "I proclaim the creation of the sovereign state of the People's Republic of Donetsk."

Earlier on Monday, protesters seized state security buildings in Donetsk and Luhansk.

Protesters broke into Donetsk's regional government building and another in Kharkiv - Ukraine's second largest city - on Sunday. Ukrainian authorities say protesters have now left the building in Kharkiv.

At an emergency cabinet meeting, interim Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk blamed Russia for the seizures.

"The plan is to destabilise the situation, the plan is for foreign troops to cross the border and seize the country's territory, which we will not allow,'' he said, adding that people engaged in the unrest had distinct Russian accents.

He said Russian troops remain within 30km (19 miles) of the frontier.

Pro-Russian activists who seized the Donetsk regional government building, take part in a meeting
The activists in Donetsk called for Russia to send in "peacekeepers" to protect them from Kiev
Pro-Russia activists vote on the proposal to declare a new "republic"
The activists occupying the Donetsk government building overwhelmingly backed the declaration
Pro-Russia activists guard a barricade set at the Ukrainian regional Security Service building in Donetsk on 7 April
Barricades are also being guarded at Donetsk's Security Service building
Police have blocked roads into Luhansk and armed reinforcements are being sent to the restive cities.

Officials said Ukrainian National Security Secretary Andriy Parubiy and Security Service chief Valentyn Nalyvaychenko have been sent to the city.

Continue reading the main story
Crisis timeline

21 Nov 2013: President Viktor Yanukovych abandons an EU deal
Dec: Pro-EU protesters occupy Kiev city hall and Independence Square
20-21 Feb 2014: At least 88 people killed in Kiev clashes
22 Feb: Mr Yanukovych flees; parliament removes him and calls election
27-28 Feb: Pro-Russian gunmen seize key buildings in Crimea.
16 Mar: Crimea voters choose to secede in disputed referendum
18 Mar: Russian and Crimean leaders sign deal in Moscow to join the region to Russia
In pictures: Eastern Ukraine tense
Interior Minister Arsen Avakov has already arrived in Kharkiv and First Deputy Prime Minister Vitaly Yarema is on his way to Donetsk, a spokeswoman said.

She said the three officials had "all the authority necessary to take action against separatism."

President Turchynov has cancelled a visit to Lithuania to deal with the unfolding events.

Russia's foreign ministry said it was "closely watching" events in eastern Ukraine, "particularly in Donetsk, Luhansk and Kharkiv regions".

It reiterated Moscow's demands for the creation of a federal Ukraine with broader powers for provinces.

"Stop pointing to Russia, blaming it for all of the troubles of today's Ukraine," the statement said.

The crisis has heightened nervousness in many other eastern European states, with Czech President Milos Zeman saying Nato should deploy troops in Ukraine if Russia invades.

"If Russia decides to extend its territorial expansion to eastern Ukraine, the fun is over," he told Czech public radio on Sunday.

In another development on Monday, Nato said it was limiting Russian diplomats' access to its headquarters in Brussels.

It comes days after Nato foreign ministers agreed to suspend all practical co-operation with Moscow over its annexation of Crimea.

Crimea death
The latest developments come as Ukraine's defence ministry said a Russian soldier had killed a Ukrainian military officer still loyal to Kiev in eastern Crimea late on Sunday.

The circumstances are unclear. Russian news agencies said prosecutors had opened a criminal investigation into the death.

BBC map of cities in eastern Ukraine
Also on Monday, Russia's consumer protection agency said it had suspended imports from six Ukrainian dairy producers after finding their products violated regulations.

Last week Kiev temporarily suspended seven Russian food companies from selling products in Ukraine.

Ukraine is facing a tough economic situation after Russia's Gazprom almost doubled the price of gas it supplies to Ukraine.

The country's foreign exchange reserves have fallen to about $15bn (£9bn) from $20.42bn on 1 January, Ukraine's central bank said on Monday. The currency, the hryvnia, has also lost about 30% of its value so far this year.

Eastern Ukraine was the political heartland of Viktor Yanukovych, the pro-Russian president who fled to Russia in February after months of protests.

Russia has branded the new leadership in Kiev illegitimate.
   
Made in nl
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






And it seems Kharkov is following: http://rt.com/news/kharkov-clashes-ukraine-independence-993/
Now protesters in Luhansk, Donyetsk and Kharkov have declared independence from Kiev. Interesting to see how it develops.
I wonder if Odessa will follow or not.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/08 00:29:52


Error 404: Interesting signature not found

 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





I wonder if NATO and the EU will set a new speed record in backpedaling...
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!



Now that's a brawl!

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/04/08/pro-russian-demonstrators-loot-ukraine-buildings-declare-independence/

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions






 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I wonder if NATO and the EU will set a new speed record in backpedaling...

Have we heard the phrase "Red Line" yet?

 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

So, what should the West do if Russia moves into Eastern Ukraine, or Eastern Ukraine wishes to break-away and create a new pro-russian country?

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Made in nl
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






 Easy E wrote:
So, what should the West do if Russia moves into Eastern Ukraine, or Eastern Ukraine wishes to break-away and create a new pro-russian country?
Draw another one of their famous ''red lines'' and impose their feared sanctions on the advisors of the governor of Chuvashia.

Error 404: Interesting signature not found

 
   
Made in us
Steady Space Marine Vet Sergeant





Believeland, OH

I'm going to coin the new phrase "Slavic Spring" TM.

Note to US Foreign policy people. This is how you do it. Wait until there is a uprising, find out if they want your there and come in like Heros. Not "Well the Kurds who don't control anything will support us if we go into Iraq".

"I don't have principles, and I consider any comment otherwise to be both threatening and insulting" - Dogma

"No, sorry, synonymous does not mean same".-Dogma

"If I say "I will hug you" I am threatening you" -Dogma 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I wonder if NATO and the EU will set a new speed record in backpedaling...

Have we heard the phrase "Red Line" yet?


Obama's "Red Lines" look rather colourless to me...
   
Made in nl
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






Things are really going to gak now in Eastern Ukraine.
The interim government in Kiev has announced a 'full-scale military operation' and people have already been killed.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27011605
http://rt.com/news/donetsk-kharkov-protest-ukraine-280/
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/04/13/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/index.html?hpt=hp_t1


http://rt.com/news/yanukovich-ukraine-war-civil-292/

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/13 20:33:40


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Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





The aggressive, threatening rhetoric from the Kiev government seems really silly to me. WTF do they think they're going to do? Invade Russia? Nuke Moscow? If they push things too far, Russia will just make another land grab in the name of "national security" etc.

The only reason that they dare to be so bellicose with a country that could easily crush Ukraine if it came to a war is because they think the West will come to their rescue and fight WW3 on their behalf.
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I wonder if NATO and the EU will set a new speed record in backpedaling...

Have we heard the phrase "Red Line" yet?


Clearly Obama is history's greatest monster for not sending in the entire US army in support of the Freedom™-loving people of Ukraine.

On a slightly less sarcastic note, just what would you prefer the US did?

For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I wonder if NATO and the EU will set a new speed record in backpedaling...

Have we heard the phrase "Red Line" yet?


Clearly Obama is history's greatest monster for not sending in the entire US army in support of the Freedom™-loving people of Ukraine.

On a slightly less sarcastic note, just what would you prefer the US did?

I'd admit the rest of Ukraine into NATO and start investing in large NATO naval/air base there... preferable, right next to Crimea (but not near the Russian border in the east).

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I wonder if NATO and the EU will set a new speed record in backpedaling...

Have we heard the phrase "Red Line" yet?


Clearly Obama is history's greatest monster for not sending in the entire US army in support of the Freedom™-loving people of Ukraine.

On a slightly less sarcastic note, just what would you prefer the US did?


Not put its foot in its mouth.

Obama isn't histories greatest monster, but he's definitely one of the worst Presidents at international relations.

It would have been best to say nothing, or just say Russia and Ukraine are both being horrible. Ukraine for falling apart in an ugly manner, and Russia for attempting to profit from the situation.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

In which case he'd be slammed for being too soft on Russia. There really isn't anything (that I can think of right now at least) that Obama could do that'd let him off the hook, as it were.

For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in us
Steady Space Marine Vet Sergeant





Believeland, OH

 Grey Templar wrote:
 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I wonder if NATO and the EU will set a new speed record in backpedaling...

Have we heard the phrase "Red Line" yet?


Clearly Obama is history's greatest monster for not sending in the entire US army in support of the Freedom™-loving people of Ukraine.

On a slightly less sarcastic note, just what would you prefer the US did?


Not put its foot in its mouth.

Obama isn't histories greatest monster, but he's definitely one of the worst Presidents at international relations.

It would have been best to say nothing, or just say Russia and Ukraine are both being horrible. Ukraine for falling apart in an ugly manner, and Russia for attempting to profit from the situation.


Yeah because Russia is the ONLY country that would try to take advantage of the situation. If anything started this situation it was NATO meddling in areas they shouldn't be.

"I don't have principles, and I consider any comment otherwise to be both threatening and insulting" - Dogma

"No, sorry, synonymous does not mean same".-Dogma

"If I say "I will hug you" I am threatening you" -Dogma 
   
Made in us
Crafty Bray Shaman





NCRP - Humboldt County

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
The aggressive, threatening rhetoric from the Kiev government seems really silly to me. WTF do they think they're going to do? Invade Russia? Nuke Moscow? If they push things too far, Russia will just make another land grab in the name of "national security" etc.

The only reason that they dare to be so bellicose with a country that could easily crush Ukraine if it came to a war is because they think the West will come to their rescue and fight WW3 on their behalf.


Most of the polls conducted so far don't show as much support for joining Russia in the eastern territories. Ukrainian gov't has also captured several Russian intelligence members in the same area. I read an article earlier today about the situation in Donyetsk or whatever and how it is identical to how it started in Crimea.

Jean-luke Pee-card, of thee YOU ES ES Enter-prize

Make it so!

 
   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

Ukraine doesn't meet any of the criteria for admission for NATO and we would be idiots to let them join.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Glasgow, Scotland

Its been reported that the guys actually starting the trouble in those regions were amongst the ones doing so in the Crimea. As far as the reports are going a load of armed (with modern gear, not surplus), apparently military trained rabble rousers went in, took over government locations, then dissipated leaving the regular protesters behind. The same armed protesters were seen in multiple locations, both in the Crimea and now Eastern Ukraine doing the same thing. Of course those fellows aren't in any way linked to the Russian military nor following the orders of the Russian administration.

The Ukrainians threatening these pro Russian protesters are of course just playing into Moscow's hands. Oh the Russians said they wouldn't invade, and maybe they won't, but they're doing their best to bugger up what's left of Ukraine in any case. Can't be saying no to your friends to the North mind. =P
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

 Andrew1975 wrote:
 Grey Templar wrote:
 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I wonder if NATO and the EU will set a new speed record in backpedaling...

Have we heard the phrase "Red Line" yet?


Clearly Obama is history's greatest monster for not sending in the entire US army in support of the Freedom™-loving people of Ukraine.

On a slightly less sarcastic note, just what would you prefer the US did?


Not put its foot in its mouth.

Obama isn't histories greatest monster, but he's definitely one of the worst Presidents at international relations.

It would have been best to say nothing, or just say Russia and Ukraine are both being horrible. Ukraine for falling apart in an ugly manner, and Russia for attempting to profit from the situation.


Yeah because Russia is the ONLY country that would try to take advantage of the situation. If anything started this situation it was NATO meddling in areas they shouldn't be.


Maybe, but we weren't discussing what started it. Only what the reactions to it were.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in ca
Lieutenant Colonel






well what started it is actually quite important as it affects the reactions to it...

you cannot poke the hornets nest, and blame them for being stung.

Im pretty sure russia wouldnt have been so on edge if
the USA hadnt unilaterally withdrawn from the anti-ballistic missle treaty that was a corner stone of de escalation between the two countries

I mean, the states has been pushing missile placement in the area as well, ukraine is a very shot drive from moscow, and now on top of that, they try to make it a NATO country as well.

the USA to this day, has put crippling sanctions on cuba for far less, and again, it was only after the states was pushing towards russia (then the USSR) that the russians pushed back. And of course, then as now, the states acts like russia made the first move.


This whole situation is just more poking the bear until it does something, then blaming the bear when it does.

so far russia's reaction had been very mute, offer sanctuary for the people who are sick and tired of the ukraine not having its act together (crimea) and hold back unless kiev starts shooting russians or something.


not surprisingly, as we see now that kiev and the pro-russians in ukraine are coming to arms, that may be a reality.

and where as when the pro-west revolutionaries violently overthrew the government, that is legitimate,

when the pro-russia groups do it violently, or even democratically, it literally does not matter, as they wont get any correct moves according to our side, anything they do is illegitimate.


we already see in the media, the big bad russia is "increasing" gas prices to the ukraine, and how russia is using gas as a weapon against the ukraine.

in truth, russia is just taking away subsidies and the discount from the price, for completely legitimate reasons. namely that the ukraine hasnt paid the bill in a long time, isnt able to pay it in the future, has had their credit rating downgraded to "default imminent".

The truth, in reality, is that russia is just asking for ukraine to ACTUALLY PAY for gas, and not giving them the 50% discount that good customers get. Why should they sell gas at such a heavy discount when they are not being paid for it? Its as if the expectation is that russia should give away billions worth of gas for free.

But western media and even the BBC write their articles with intentionally deceptive, and misleading language, to assert that russia is raising prices for no reason other then to cripple the ukraine or strike back at them.

their articles always state "russia increased gas prices" when the fact of the matter is "russia asked for the money they were owed, got told to feth off, and stopped subsidizing a country that is actively working against them and their interests"

 
   
Made in us
Steady Space Marine Vet Sergeant





Believeland, OH

 Grey Templar wrote:
 Andrew1975 wrote:
 Grey Templar wrote:
 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I wonder if NATO and the EU will set a new speed record in backpedaling...

Have we heard the phrase "Red Line" yet?


Clearly Obama is history's greatest monster for not sending in the entire US army in support of the Freedom™-loving people of Ukraine.

On a slightly less sarcastic note, just what would you prefer the US did?


Not put its foot in its mouth.

Obama isn't histories greatest monster, but he's definitely one of the worst Presidents at international relations.

It would have been best to say nothing, or just say Russia and Ukraine are both being horrible. Ukraine for falling apart in an ugly manner, and Russia for attempting to profit from the situation.


Yeah because Russia is the ONLY country that would try to take advantage of the situation. If anything started this situation it was NATO meddling in areas they shouldn't be.


Maybe, but we weren't discussing what started it. Only what the reactions to it were.


So Russia is bad for playing the game better than NATO? Seams a little disingenuous.

"I don't have principles, and I consider any comment otherwise to be both threatening and insulting" - Dogma

"No, sorry, synonymous does not mean same".-Dogma

"If I say "I will hug you" I am threatening you" -Dogma 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Being better at the game doesn't make your actions right.

I'll say that Putin has done a marvelous job running rings around everyone, highlighting their incompetence.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in ca
Lieutenant Colonel






 Grey Templar wrote:
Being better at the game doesn't make your actions right.

I'll say that Putin has done a marvelous job running rings around everyone, highlighting their incompetence.


it does when putins way with crimea didnt kill anyone...

the wests way in kiev killed ~100 people so far, and counting.

We will see though, if right sector makes good on their promise to start killing all the ethnic or pro russians in the next few weeks I really dont see how russia cant go in there.

But, you are correct, winning itself does not justify anything. But as of yet, russia doesnt have much to justify, while the other side really does.



 
   
Made in us
Steady Space Marine Vet Sergeant





Believeland, OH

 Grey Templar wrote:
Being better at the game doesn't make your actions right.

I'll say that Putin has done a marvelous job running rings around everyone, highlighting their incompetence.


His actions are right in the context of the conflict. The west keeps trying to move further and further into Eastern Europe, all the way into Russia's back door. If you think the pro western uprising was not driven, organized and funded covertly by the west, well I have some land to sell you.

Russia saw an opportunity and took it, rather peacefully at that. I don't see anything wrong with their actions, or how you can label Russia's actions "Horrible". In fact, we need to study that play book.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/14 02:58:46


"I don't have principles, and I consider any comment otherwise to be both threatening and insulting" - Dogma

"No, sorry, synonymous does not mean same".-Dogma

"If I say "I will hug you" I am threatening you" -Dogma 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





 whembly wrote:

I'd admit the rest of Ukraine into NATO and start investing in large NATO naval/air base there... preferable, right next to Crimea (but not near the Russian border in the east).


Then I think Russia should respond by building a naval base in Cuba.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/14 07:05:34


 
   
 
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