Ukraine: Witness the rise of a new Russian Empire, live!

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

Caught the headlines on Sky News about half an hour ago, and the guy mentioned a recent attack on a Ukrainian military unit.

"30 Insurgents staged an ambush using rocket propelled grenades and atomic weapons. "

Couldn't help but think the Ukraine Crisis is escalating quickly.

**-Shrike-**

Someone had to.

EDIT: Turns out that this was my 500th post. I consider this a success!

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

-Shrike- wrote:
Someone had to.

I was trying to be subtle.

**-Shrike-**

There's no time for subtlety when you're on the brink of nuclear warfare!

**Frazzled**

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Caught the headlines on Sky News about half an hour ago, and the guy mentioned a recent attack on a Ukrainian military unit.

"30 Insurgents staged an ambush using rocket propelled grenades and atomic weapons. "

Couldn't help but think the Ukraine Crisis is escalating quickly.

I must admit, I now really like the cut of their jib. It takes balls of plutonium to ambush someone with multiple fusion bombs. Thats what I call MAKING A STATEMENT.
In the words of the Immortal Bard: "DAMN!"

**easysauce**

well, all weapons contain atoms,

so therefore all weapons are atomic...

sounds like somone screwed up along the lines of 30 caliber ghost assault magazines that let you shoot 5000 bullets a second

**Jihadin**

The French government is facing pressure from the U.S. over the sale of two warships to the Russian navy, amid reports that Paris plans to push ahead with the controversial deal.

Despite broader efforts by the U.S. and Europe to isolate Moscow over the intervention and unrest in Ukraine, French President Francois Hollande said he plans to go through with a $1.6 billion deal to build warships for Russia, NPR reported.

French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius was scheduled Tuesday morning for a meeting with Secretary of State John Kerry in Washington. He could face pressure from the State Department and others trying to tighten sanctions on Russia.

Pentagon spokesman Col. Steven Warren said the U.S. is addressing this with the French government.

"We have expressed our concerns to the French government over this sale, and we will continue to do so," he said, adding that Kerry and Fabius would "discuss the full range of issues regarding Ukraine."

Ironically, one of the Mistral-class warships the French are looking to build for the Russians would be named "The Sevastopol," after the Crimean port. Russia annexed Crimea in March in a move decried as illegitimate by the international community.

The Hollande government already is facing criticism at home over the proposed deal.

According to NPR, parliament member Bruno Le Maire said Hollande "absolutely" should suspend the contract, which was struck three years ago.

"It's the only way to show Vladimir Putin we're serious," he said.

But according to Russian media, Moscow said back in March -- when the French government was weighing whether to go forward with the contract -- that France should return the money if it does not deliver the ships. The ships reportedly would be deployed as part of Russia's Pacific Fleet.

Amid the contract dispute, Russian officials continue to face growing sanctions.

The European Union expanded sanctions on Monday to include several more Russian and separatist Ukrainian leaders. The move came after separatists in eastern Ukraine held a referendum calling for self-rule, which the United States and its allies again described as illegitimate.

The White House threatened increased sanctions on Russia if it tries to "disrupt" elections scheduled for May 25 in Ukraine.

Money talks BS walks

Edit

Quote mode

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

Well, sounds like the ships have already been bought and paid for.

if the American government is so "concerned" over it, let them buy the ships and reimburse Russia.

**Grey Templar**

easysauce wrote:
well, all weapons contain atoms,

so therefore all weapons are atomic...

sounds like somone screwed up along the lines of 30 caliber ghost assault magazines that let you shoot 5000 magazine clips a second

Sorry, you were a little too correct for the incorrectness of the screwup.

**-Shrike-**

Well, if the French government has the money, then they either build the ships or give the money back. It really is as simple as that.

**Iron_Captain**

-Shrike- wrote:
Well, if the French government has the money, then they either build the ships or give the money back. It really is as simple as that.

The problem for France is that they have signed a contract with Russia and are thus obliged to deliver those ships. If France can't or won't deliver those ships, Russia can sue France for a huge amount of additional money on top of the original price.

**Frazzled**

Iron_Captain wrote:
-Shrike- wrote:
Well, if the French government has the money, then they either build the ships or give the money back. It really is as simple as that.

The problem for France is that they have signed a contract with Russia and are thus obliged to deliver those ships. If France can't or won't deliver those ships, Russia can sue France for a huge amount of additional money on top of the original price.

So what? France can tell Russia to stuff it, or it will break wind in Russia's direction a second time.

**whembly**

Frazzled wrote:
Iron_Captain wrote:
-Shrike- wrote:
Well, if the French government has the money, then they either build the ships or give the money back. It really is as simple as that.

The problem for France is that they have signed a contract with Russia and are thus obliged to deliver those ships. If France can't or won't deliver those ships, Russia can sue France for a huge amount of additional money on top of the original price.

So what? France can tell Russia to stuff it, or it will break wind in Russia's direction a second time.

With the amount of cheese they consume... O.o might not be the wisest course of action.

**Iron_Captain**

Frazzled wrote:
Iron_Captain wrote:
-Shrike- wrote:
Well, if the French government has the money, then they either build the ships or give the money back. It really is as simple as that.

The problem for France is that they have signed a contract with Russia and are thus obliged to deliver those ships. If France can't or won't deliver those ships, Russia can sue France for a huge amount of additional money on top of the original price.

So what? France can tell Russia to stuff it, or it will break wind in Russia's direction a second time.

That would be a breach of international law and could have serious consequences for the French economy as it would damage the image of France as a reliable trading partner and it would be bad for French-Russian relations and French companies operating in Russia.

**whembly**

Iron_Captain wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Iron_Captain wrote:
-Shrike- wrote:
Well, if the French government has the money, then they either build the ships or give the money back. It really is as simple as that.

The problem for France is that they have signed a contract with Russia and are thus obliged to deliver those ships. If France can't or won't deliver those ships, Russia can sue France for a huge amount of additional money on top of the original price.

So what? France can tell Russia to stuff it, or it will break wind in Russia's direction a second time.
That would be a breach of international law and could have serious consequences for the French economy as it would damage the image of France as a reliable trading partner and it would be bad for French-Russian relations and French companies operating in Russia.

nah... happens all the time.

I remember when the F-22 was "talked" about being sold to other NATO countries... then, someone said "nein".

Much hilarity ensured.

EDIT: the distinction is yes, France is under contract. But countries breaking contract isn't all that uncommon.

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

whembly wrote:
Iron_Captain wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Iron_Captain wrote:
-Shrike- wrote:
Well, if the French government has the money, then they either build the ships or give the money back. It really is as simple as that.

The problem for France is that they have signed a contract with Russia and are thus obliged to deliver those ships. If France can't or won't deliver those ships, Russia can sue France for a huge amount of additional money on top of the original price.

So what? France can tell Russia to stuff it, or it will break wind in Russia's direction a second time.
That would be a breach of international law and could have serious consequences for the French economy as it would damage the image of France as a reliable trading partner and it would be bad for French-Russian relations and French companies operating in Russia.

nah... happens all the time.

I remember when the F-22 was "talked" about being sold to other NATO countries... then, someone said "nein".

Much hilarity ensured.

"Talked about " = / = Sold.

Russia has already bought and paid for the ships, and is awaiting delivery.

**whembly**

See my edit..^^^

**Jihadin**

Deal/payment/arrangement was made before sanction right? I can see Russia making up the loss of 1 billion by jacking up natural gas export

**Frazzled**

Iron_Captain wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Iron_Captain wrote:
-Shrike- wrote:
Well, if the French government has the money, then they either build the ships or give the money back. It really is as simple as that.

The problem for France is that they have signed a contract with Russia and are thus obliged to deliver those ships. If France can't or won't deliver those ships, Russia can sue France for a huge amount of additional money on top of the original price.

So what? France can tell Russia to stuff it, or it will break wind in Russia's direction a second time.
That would be a breach of international law and could have serious consequences for the French economy as it would damage the image of France as a reliable trading partner and it would be bad for French-Russian relations and French companies operating in Russia.

I'm sure you mean that seriously, but its pretty funny. Someone defending Russia with...internatonal law. Oh man thats good. Do you do private engagements or just public stand up?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
whembly wrote:
Iron_Captain wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Iron_Captain wrote:
-Shrike- wrote:
Well, if the French government has the money, then they either build the ships or give the money back. It really is as simple as that.

The problem for France is that they have signed a contract with Russia and are thus obliged to deliver those ships. If France can't or won't deliver those ships, Russia can sue France for a huge amount of additional money on top of the original price.

So what? France can tell Russia to stuff it, or it will break wind in Russia's direction a second time.
That would be a breach of international law and could have serious consequences for the French economy as it would damage the image of France as a reliable trading partner and it would be bad for French-Russian relations and French companies operating in Russia.

nah... happens all the time.

I remember when the F-22 was "talked" about being sold to other NATO countries... then, someone said "nein".

Much hilarity ensured.

"Talked about " = / = Sold.

Russia has already bought and paid for the ships, and is awaiting delivery.

SO?

Alternatively, I'm sure France has some bored frogmen. Just tell them whale protesters have boarded the ship. French frogmen + vessel = PROFIT!

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

Frazzled wrote:

SO?

Alternatively, I'm sure France has some bored frogmen. Just tell them whale protesters have boarded the ship. French frogmen + vessel = PROFIT!

SO the ships by right belong to Russia.

Either deliver the ships, or reimburse Russia.

Otherwise, in future the USA has no right to complain when it buys goods, resources etc from another country only for that country to decide not to deliver.

Why is it that so many American's think its OK to be hypocrites?

**Frazzled**

1. This has nothing to do with the USA.
2. Thats happened many times.
3. Whats Russia going to do about it?

Now France won't do any such thing. Europeans like to act snooty and say Americans are just out for the buck, but they are epically mercenary and will throw Ukraine under the bus without a second thought.

Thats why we should leave them to their own devices.

**whembly**

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Frazzled wrote:

SO?

Alternatively, I'm sure France has some bored frogmen. Just tell them whale protesters have boarded the ship. French frogmen + vessel = PROFIT!

SO the ships by right belong to Russia.

Either deliver the ships, or reimburse Russia.

Otherwise, in future the USA has no right to complain when it buys goods, resources etc from another country only for that country to decide not to deliver.

Why is it that so many American's think its OK to be hypocrites?

Um... who suggested not reimbursing the other party? o.O

**Gentleman_Jellyfish**

whembly wrote:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Frazzled wrote:

SO?

Alternatively, I'm sure France has some bored frogmen. Just tell them whale protesters have boarded the ship. French frogmen + vessel = PROFIT!

SO the ships by right belong to Russia.

Either deliver the ships, or reimburse Russia.

Otherwise, in future the USA has no right to complain when it buys goods, resources etc from another country only for that country to decide not to deliver.

Why is it that so many American's think its OK to be hypocrites?

Um... who suggested not reimbursing the other party? o.O

Frazzled, the person he's responding to

**Frazzled**

Actually I suggested sending frogmen to blow them up...

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

Frazzled wrote:

1. This has nothing to do with the USA.
2. Thats happened many times.
3. Whats Russia going to do about it?

Now France won't do any such thing. Europeans like to act snooty and say Americans are just out for the buck, but they are epically mercenary and will throw Ukraine under the bus without a second thought.

Thats why we should leave them to their own devices.

1. Thats not true, because the US government is trying to stop the sale.
2. Thats a pathetic excuse.
3. Sue.
Feth with Ukraine even more, e.g. raising prices on gas.
End cooperation with NASA - how are you going to get your astronauts into space if Russia says "Feth you, do it yourself".

This is a weird case of Double Think.

US Government: "Stop the Sale!"
American: This has nothing to do with the USA.

**squidhills**

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Frazzled wrote:

1. This has nothing to do with the USA.
2. Thats happened many times.
3. Whats Russia going to do about it?

Now France won't do any such thing. Europeans like to act snooty and say Americans are just out for the buck, but they are epically mercenary and will throw Ukraine under the bus without a second thought.

Thats why we should leave them to their own devices.

Then why is the US Government "pressuring" the French Government to block the sale?

Because Frazzled isn't the President.

**Frazzled**

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Frazzled wrote:

1. This has nothing to do with the USA.
2. Thats happened many times.
3. Whats Russia going to do about it?

Now France won't do any such thing. Europeans like to act snooty and say Americans are just out for the buck, but they are epically mercenary and will throw Ukraine under the bus without a second thought.

Thats why we should leave them to their own devices.

Then why is the US Government "pressuring" the French Government to block the sale?

Er...look at the topic of the thread. Don't worry, have faith in France's greed.

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

Frazzled wrote:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Frazzled wrote:

1. This has nothing to do with the USA.
2. Thats happened many times.
3. Whats Russia going to do about it?

Now France won't do any such thing. Europeans like to act snooty and say Americans are just out for the buck, but they are epically mercenary and will throw Ukraine under the bus without a second thought.

Thats why we should leave them to their own devices.

Then why is the US Government "pressuring" the French Government to block the sale?

Er...look at the topic of the thread. Don't worry, have faith in France's greed.

See my edited comment.

It has everything to do with the USA, because the US government is trying to block the sale.

**dereksatkinson**

The farce is now complete...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-14/white-house-bidens-son-joining-ukraine-gas-giant-no-ethical-issues-here

Keep in mind that if it wasn't for the coup (which we supported) there was no way it would have been deemed economical or necessary to construct this pipeline. Whatever it takes to line the pockets of the US oligarchy...

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
It has everything to do with the USA, because the US government is trying to block the sale.

Indeed.. And Russia is much more important to the EU than the US government cares to admit. France is 3rd or 4th in the world in arms exports IIRC.. Their economy is in shambles and there is no way their very unpopular president is going to strangle his own economy further just to help Joe Biden get richer.

**Frazzled**

squidhills wrote:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Frazzled wrote:

1. This has nothing to do with the USA.
2. Thats happened many times.
3. Whats Russia going to do about it?

Now France won't do any such thing. Europeans like to act snooty and say Americans are just out for the buck, but they are epically mercenary and will throw Ukraine under the bus without a second thought.

Thats why we should leave them to their own devices.

Then why is the US Government "pressuring" the French Government to block the sale?

Because Frazzled isn't the President.

Admit it, you know A Frazzled administration would be way more interesting.

"In other news, at today's daily Ode to Bacon, President Frazzled accused Canada of looking at him funny, and stated that if it doesn't stop he's going to punch Canada right in the kisser."