Ukraine: Witness the rise of a new Russian Empire, live!

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**whembly**

dereksatkinson wrote:
The farce is now complete...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-14/white-house-bidens-son-joining-ukraine-gas-giant-no-ethical-issues-here

Keep in mind that if it wasn't for the coup (which we supported) there was no way it would have been deemed economical or necessary to construct this pipeline. Whatever it takes to line the pockets of the US oligarchy...

erm... I gotta research that... zerohedge isn't a site that I hold high in esteem. But, if true... man... that's changes things.

o.O

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
It has everything to do with the USA, because the US government is trying to block the sale.

Indeed.. And Russia is much more important to the EU than the US government cares to admit. France is 3rd or 4th in the world in arms exports IIRC.. Their economy is in shambles and there is no way their very unpopular president is going to strangle his own economy further just to help Joe Biden get richer.

*shrugs*
Then deliver the damned ships.

We ain't scared... 'cuz... 'Murrica (and friends).

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

Frazzled wrote:

squidhills wrote:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

Then why is the US Government "pressuring" the French Government to block the sale?

Because Frazzled isn't the President.

Admit it, you know A Frazzled administration would be way more interesting.

"In other news, at today's daily Ode to Bacon, President Frazzled accused Canada of looking at him funny, and stated that if it doesn't stop he's going to punch Canada right in the kisser."

Sounds about right.

**Frazzled**

A Frazzled administration would also immediately rip off its shirt and challenge Putin to a Chest Off.

"Bring it Roosky. These pecs are made of FREEDOM."

**Gentleman_Jellyfish**

whembly wrote:
dereksatkinson wrote:
The farce is now complete...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-14/white-house-bidens-son-joining-ukraine-gas-giant-no-ethical-issues-here

Keep in mind that if it wasn't for the coup (which we supported) there was no way it would have been deemed economical or necessary to construct this pipeline. Whatever it takes to line the pockets of the US oligarchy...

erm... I gotta research that... zerohedge isn't a site that I hold high in esteem. But, if true... man... that's changes things.

o.O

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/5/14/ukraine-biden-gas.html

The White House brushed aside questions this week about whether the involvement of Vice President Joe Biden's son in a Ukrainian natural gas company raised ethical issues at a time when the Obama administration is promoting energy diversity in the country, which is also currently mired in a gas-price spat with Moscow.

R. Hunter Biden, an attorney and chairman of the board of the World Food Program USA, was named this week to the board of directors of Burisma Holdings, a private company that has drilled for natural gas in Ukraine since 2002.

"I believe that my assistance in consulting the company on matters of transparency, corporate governance and responsibility, international expansion and other priorities will contribute to the economy and benefit the people of Ukraine," Biden said, according to a statement released by the company.

The announcement comes as Ukraine and the U.S. are looking to decrease Ukraine's reliance on Russian energy amid threats from Moscow to cut Ukraine off if it doesn't pay massive debts. Western countries believe Russia would have less leverage over Ukraine if Europe were less dependent on Russian gas.

Amid the push to make Ukraine less dependent on Moscow, Kyiv is also mired in a conflict with pro-Russian rebels in its eastern region who voted Sunday for wider autonomy. The U.S. has placed sanctions on Russia for its alleged support of the rebels, but the pressure has done little to stop activists in the region from seeking more independence.

In April, Vice President Biden traveled to Kyiv to discuss how the U.S. could help provide technical expertise for expanding domestic production of natural gas.

Asked by a reporter Tuesday whether Hunter Biden's appointment to the company presented a conflict of interest, White House spokesman Jay Carney said it did not.

"Hunter Biden and other members of the Biden family are obviously private citizens, and where they work does not reflect an endorsement by the administration or by the vice president or president," Carney said.

Kendra Barkoff, a spokeswoman for Vice President Biden, said he "does not endorse any particular company and has no involvement with this company."

Ukraine-Russia gas spat

Ukraine, which depends on Russia for most of its natural gas, has accused Moscow of hiking natural gas prices as punishment for Kyiv's moving closer to the European Union.

On Tuesday, Russia's state-run natural gas company Gazprom demanded a $1.7 billion prepayment from Ukraine for June gas deliveries, heightening a dispute over price that is pushing the two countries closer to another gas war that could cut supplies.

Ukraine also wants to change the conditions of a 2009 contract that locked Kyiv into buying a set volume, whether it needs it or not, at $485 per 1,000 cubic meters — the highest price paid by any client in Europe.

Moscow dropped the price to $268.50 after then-president Viktor Yanukovych turned his back on a trade and association agreement with the European Union last year, but reinstated the original price after Yanukovych was ousted in February.

Kyiv has so far refused to pay the higher price, saying gas is being used as a political tool by Moscow to punish Ukraine's new leaders for moving closer to the European Union.

As for the involvement in Burisma Holdings, Melanie Sloan, the head of Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, a watchdog group on government ethics, told Reuters there was no inherent conflict in the younger Biden's job.

"It can't be that because your dad is the vice president, you can't do anything," Sloan said. "The most important thing is for Biden not to be speaking about these issues with his dad, and for them to try and draw the lines."

**loki old fart**

dereksatkinson wrote:
The farce is now complete...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-14/white-house-bidens-son-joining-ukraine-gas-giant-no-ethical-issues-here

Keep in mind that if it wasn't for the coup (which we supported) there was no way it would have been deemed economical or necessary to construct this pipeline. Whatever it takes to line the pockets of the US oligarchy...

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
It has everything to do with the USA, because the US government is trying to block the sale.

Indeed.. And Russia is much more important to the EU than the US government cares to admit. France is 3rd or 4th in the world in arms exports IIRC.. Their economy is in shambles and there is no way their very unpopular president is going to strangle his own economy further just to help Joe Biden get richer.

Well spotted that.

**Jihadin**

Frazz Admin

Bromsy Minister of Strip Clubs..

On Topic

France is going to deliver. Unless the US come up with a billion dollar economy package that puts France shipyard workers and feeder manufacturing workers to work. Wait. That sounds unproductive to American workers

Imagine if Obama does something like that

**Ketara**

There's some precedent for removing the ships. For example, Britain seized Turkey's Reshadieh class battleships prior to the general outbreak of WW1.

It wont happen here though, because it would severely damage France's capacity to to gain warship contracts from foreign powers. What country would want to take the risk of commissioning warships from a power that demonstrates a willingness to take your money and keep the ships whenever a matter of conflicting foreign policy comes up? Better to order from Britain or South Korea and know you'll get what you pay for.

**dereksatkinson**

So the Ukraine military poses as the UN and opens fire on separatists. Ooops

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/helicopter-may-land-ukraines-military-hot-water-u-n-n105041

The United Nations expressed concern Wednesday over footage purporting to show Ukrainian troops using a helicopter painted with the organization's colors and insignia.

Russian news website Life News reported that three U.N.-painted Mil Mi-24 combat helicopters and one Mi-8 transport helicopter had been spotted assisting government troops in eastern Ukraine.

So I guess that's one way to get the Cossacks to stop shooting down your helicopters. Imagine if you will what the story would be is separatists shot down "peace keepers".

Needless to say the UN is pissed since they aren't supposed to be there.

**Frazzled**

I'll be honest. I really really don't care about these guys. if the Russians want them, send Putin a meme with "hey your funeral," and have Obama drink a shot of Russian Vodka via vidphone with Putin in salute.

**d-usa**

Interesting:

http://www.vox.com/2014/5/16/5717674/obamas-plan-to-let-putin-hang-himself-is-working

**Frazzled**

Wait this article says he's backing off yet:
1) troops still in Crimea
2) tens of thousands of troops still on border with rest of Ukraine despite his statement otherwise.
3) Gazprom just ratcheted up gas costs.

East Ukraine is in Russian hands by October, you heard it here first.

**whembly**

Frazzled wrote:
Wait this article says he's backing off yet:
1) troops still in Crimea
2) tens of thousands of troops still on border with rest of Ukraine despite his statement otherwise.
3) Gazprom just ratcheted up gas costs.

East Ukraine is in Russian hands by October, you heard it here first.

It's "vox-speak"...

Good luck deciphering it.

**Iron_Captain**

d-usa wrote:
Interesting:

http://www.vox.com/2014/5/16/5717674/obamas-plan-to-let-putin-hang-himself-is-working

Backing down? Putin hasn't been backing down for a second. In fact, he has deployed even more troops at the border for 'military excercise'.
Putin is not as stupid as that article depicts him. He knew that a crisis and threatening war would damage the Russian economy. And seeing that the damage so far hasn't been that serious, it is probably an acceptable risk to him. Capturing strategic Crimea and maybe the wealthy Donbass is worth it in the long term.

**Jihadin**

Putin IMHO has outdid Obama

**-Shrike-**

Ho-hum. Things are getting interesting over in Ukraine... I really want to see what this guy secretly recorded.

From the BBC.

British journalist Graham Phillips held in Ukraine
8 minutes ago

Russia Today reports that Graham Phillips was detained at a Mariupol check point
A British national has been detained in Ukraine, the Foreign Office has confirmed.

Graham Phillips is a journalist working for Russian TV station Russia Today.

The station said he had been detained in Mariupol, eastern Ukraine, on Tuesday. The National Guard later said it intended to transport him to Kiev.

The Foreign Office said it was "in contact with the Ukrainian authorities" and was ready to provide "consular assistance".

Mr Phillips, 35, who grew up in Nottingham before moving to Scotland, works as a freelance journalist and had been a stringer for Russia Today.

In a statement, the organisation said he had not been in contact with anyone via phone, email or Twitter since 15:20 Moscow time on Tuesday.

It said he had been detained that morning and was believed to have been taken for "interrogation" by the Security Service of Ukraine, known as the SBU.

Ukraine's National Guard confirmed the journalist had been detained and passed to the SBU. It told the BBC he would be transported to Kiev and passed to British embassy officials, after which he should go free.

'Extremely worried'

Russia Today said its repeated attempts to speak to representatives of the Ukrainian security service had been rebuffed.

It appealed to the British consulates in Russia and Ukraine, as well as to the UK Foreign Office, requesting their help with Mr Phillips's release.

Russia Today said he had called to tell them of his detention but they had since lost all contact with him.

The English language TV network claimed a source had told them Mr Phillips would be released if he deleted footage he had recorded near a roadblock.

Alexey Kuznetsov, deputy head of Russia Today's English department, said: "We still cannot get in touch with Graham, we are extremely worried what could happen to him."

On Monday Mr Phillips tweeted about growing calls for him to be arrested and deported from Ukraine.

His last tweet on Tuesday said that he had been "secretly filming" with a senior doctor at a morgue in Mariupol.

According to RT, during his last phone call with the station, Mr Phillips said he had been asked if he was a spy. He also told the station his car had been searched and his laptop confiscated.

The authorities checked his documentation, looked at his reports and clips, and asked him his position on Crimea, RT reported.

'Absolute rubbish'

Meanwhile, MPs in the Russian parliament have expressed outrage following the detention of two Russian journalists.

Marat Saichenko and Oleg Sidyakin, from the pro-Kremlin news channel LifeNews, were detained by soldiers in eastern Ukraine.

They were accused of being armed and involved in "terrorism".

Speaking on Wednesday during his visit to China, President Vladimir Putin described the allegations against the reporters as "nonsense, absolute rubbish".

An online campaign is under way to secure their release - using images of people holding signs declaring "Save Our Guys".

There has been unrest in Ukraine as government forces continue to clash with pro-Russia separatists, who have taken over government buildings in southern and south-eastern parts of the country.

It comes after pro-Kremlin Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych was overthrown in February, following months of street protests.

A revolt in the east of Ukraine gained momentum after Russia annexed the country's mainly ethnic Russian region of Crimea in March.

**dereksatkinson**

d-usa wrote:
Interesting:

http://www.vox.com/2014/5/16/5717674/obamas-plan-to-let-putin-hang-himself-is-working

Was Putin taking over $1 trillion in fuel reserves part of Obama's plan too?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/18/world/europe/in-taking-crimea-putin-gains-a-sea-of-fuel-reserves.html?smid=tw-share&_r=4

This whole thing was designed to break Europe's dependence on Russian Natural Gas based on the ridiculous assumption that the US could fill the void. An assumption that was just plain wrong. http://ourfiniteworld.com/2014/03/31/the-absurdity-of-us-natural-gas-exports/

The problem with Obama is he believes his own propaganda and thinks he can treat the world like he's treated Republicans. He acts like he is the ruler of the world and the response from China, Russia, India, Brazil and now the EU hasn't gone as planned. Europe isn't going to break ties with Russia. France isn't going to stop trading military equipment. Germany isn't happy about being spied on. China isn't happy with how we have accused them of cyber crimes. The world is tired of the holier than thou attitude from our administration and it's starting to cost us. If the situation escalates much more we will have a much bigger problem on our hands.

**sebster**

dereksatkinson wrote:
Indeed.. And Russia is much more important to the EU than the US government cares to admit. France is 3rd or 4th in the world in arms exports IIRC.. Their economy is in shambles and there is no way their very unpopular president is going to strangle his own economy further just to help Joe Biden get richer.

I'm sorry, it isn't quite clear from what you wrote but did you say the French economy is in a shambles?

**easysauce**

Russia and china have been signing deals left and right, while sino-US relations have continued to tank, ESP in regards to all the us proxies at chinas door...

I hope we all noticed martial law being declared in thailand.

all the protests in the Philippines along the lines of this due to all the US troops over there, I hope we all noticed these too.

There has been a distinct pattern of the US deploying more and more military assets near china and russias borders over the past while, that whole disputed island chain between china and japan hasnt gone away, neither have the US forces deployed there, same with disputed japanese/russian islands to the north.

All this coupled with the withdrawal from the anti ballistic missile treaty, and deploying devices as close as possible to russia, and its almost like someones trying to restart the cold war on purpose, but this time, with more china.

**Frazzled**

What troops in the Phillipines? We abandoned the last bases after the volcano. Linkies?

**Ensis Ferrae**

Frazzled wrote:
What troops in the Phillipines? We abandoned the last bases after the volcano. Linkies?

They're finally getting around to protesting Pershing

**-Shrike-**

In terms of troops in the Philippines, aren't the US sending a load of troops back over there in the near future?

**Gentleman_Jellyfish**

easysauce wrote:
All this coupled with the withdrawal from the anti ballistic missile treaty, and deploying devices as close as possible to russia, and its almost like someones trying to restart the cold war on purpose, but this time, with more china.

How do tensions like this affect international plans like the China-US railway in the works?

**Jihadin**

Missile range

**Frazzled**

Ensis Ferrae wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
What troops in the Phillipines? We abandoned the last bases after the volcano. Linkies?

They're finally getting around to protesting Pershing

If it aint Black it aint Jack!

Automatically Appended Next Post:

All this coupled with the withdrawal from the anti ballistic missile treaty, and deploying devices as close as possible to russia, and its almost like someones trying to restart the cold war on purpose, but this time, with more china.

You must have forgotten about that whole Korean War, Vietnam War things...

**Easy E**

This thread is so full of spin and misinformation from all sides that I have no idea what is actually going on in the Ukraine. Does it have something to do with FIFA Soccer?

**whembly**

Easy E wrote:
This thread is so full of spin and misinformation from all sides that I have no idea what is actually going on in the Ukraine. Does it have something to do with FIFA Soccer?

Don't forget... Darth Vader is running for office. I hear he's pro military too!

**-Shrike-**

Easy E wrote:
This thread is so full of spin and misinformation from all sides that I have no idea what is actually going on in the Ukraine. Does it have something to do with FIFA Soccer?

You live in 'Merica, all you're going to hear is "Russia is the evils!". I live in the UK, I get mostly "Russia is bad!" with the occasional "Ukraine did something not very nice...". Obviously, in Russia, the news consists entirely of "Glory to Putin, he who fights against the scum of the West!".

... Good luck finding a balanced news source.

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

Try Truthloader on Youtube. They seem pretty even handed to me - they're against Russia's annexation of Crimea and interference in East Ukraine, but they've also reported a lot on the fascist elements in the Kiev faction(s). Their overall opinion seems to be that all involved, Russia & the pro Russia separatists, Ukraine, and The West are all up to no good and using dirty tricks. Young Turks too.

**Frazzled**

Easy E wrote:
This thread is so full of spin and misinformation from all sides that I have no idea what is actually going on in the Ukraine. Does it have something to do with FIFA Soccer?

I think we've established:
1. Ukraine probably doesn't border Bolivia.
2. Putin likes to go shirtless an inordinant amount of time considering the temperature zones he hangs around in. An inordinant amount of time.

**Sigvatr**

Easy E wrote:
This thread is so full of spin and misinformation from all sides that I have no idea what is actually going on in the Ukraine. Does it have something to do with FIFA Soccer?

No.

tl;dr: Russia militarily invaded another country and annected parts of it, the new government in Ukraine partly consists of fascists and there's a borderline civil war going on with terrorists seizing parts of the country, supported by Russia, whereas the government is supported by the west. Russia does what Putin wants because the EU is dependant on the gas / oil and is afraid of taking any severe actions.