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Well, there's also the news that bodies(body parts) have been found up to 15 kilomtres from the crash site. This pretty much confirms it was severely damaged, either by bomb or shot down while in the air.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

Pro-Russian Terrorists stated its forces do not possess such military equipment.

Since when are terrorists a credible source?

RIA NOVOSTI cites a source that claims the Ukrainians deployed Buk missile launchers to the Donetsk regio. Those would have the required range to take down the aircraft. The question is who fired them?

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

Pro-Russian Terrorists stated its forces do not possess such military equipment.

Since when are terrorists a credible source?

Since when are seperatists terrorists? Look up what the word terrorist actually means.

It's like how people think being a traitor automatically makes you a terrible person...

They've got tanks, but they don't have ancient SA-3s?

I doubt.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
RIA NOVOSTI cites a source that claims the Ukrainians used a Buk missile launchers to the Donetsk regio. Those would have the required range to take down the aircraft. The question is who fired them?

Oooh, they went with something almost modern.

Stay away from twitter for your own sake if you don't want to see terrible pictures.

edit:

Apparently this:



soooooo terrible :(

Here is a relatively clean picture of the crash site:

Jesus. My condolences to the families.

Will the UN finally grow some balls and step in now that something like this has happened?

 Somedude593 wrote:
Jesus. My condolences to the families.

Will the UN finally grow some balls and step in now that something like this has happened?

Probably never, Russia has a non-overridable Veto just like the US, China, France and UK.

 Somedude593 wrote:
Jesus. My condolences to the families.

Will the UN finally grow some balls and step in now that something like this has happened?

Ah, yes. The UN Peacekeeping forces. With their blue helmets and unloaded weaponry with their rules of engagement typically preventing them from actually firing on anyone unless they, themselves are fired upon first.

The UN has an incredibly....meh record when it comes to stopping these kinds of disputes.

Saldiven wrote:

 Somedude593 wrote:
Jesus. My condolences to the families.

Will the UN finally grow some balls and step in now that something like this has happened?

Ah, yes. The UN Peacekeeping forces. With their blue helmets and unloaded weaponry with their rules of engagement typically preventing them from actually firing on anyone unless they, themselves are fired upon first.

The UN has an incredibly....meh record when it comes to stopping these kinds of disputes.

To be fair, it was never intended to really be something that physically got stuck into active fighting, that was by design.

If it turns out it was the Ukrainians who shot the airplane down, it would not be the first time:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/1359353/Ukraine-admits-it-shot-down-Russian-airliner.html

Actually, no.

What I'd like to know is, wtf were civilian aircraft doing flying through Ukrainian airspace? Its an active warzone, with GOVERNMENT aircraft being shot down left right and centre.

Think the Sep's just have manpads SAM's

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
What I'd like to know is, wtf were civilian aircraft doing flying through Ukrainian airspace? Its an active warzone, with GOVERNMENT aircraft being shot down left right and centre.

I read it's a popular international flight route. Very common use

That doesn't look good:

Lots of Dutch passengers on board, probably tourists.

 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
What I'd like to know is, wtf were civilian aircraft doing flying through Ukrainian airspace? Its an active warzone, with GOVERNMENT aircraft being shot down left right and centre.

I read it's a popular international flight route. Very common use

Yes, but when missiles are filling the skies and government military aircraft are being shot down, surely it would be wise to close the airspace to civilian aircraft?

Possible 23 Americans to. How tight is airport security in Amstradam? No one mention a possible terror group yet

 Jihadin wrote:
Possible 23 Americans to. How tight is airport security in Amstradam? No one mention a possible terror group yet

Amsterdam is a major flight hub, been there four times, security is pretty good as far as I know. It doesn't feel like there was a bomb on board to me...the coincidence of a bomb going off EXACTLY over Ukrainian airspace? That seems to much like a Tom Clancy novel for me.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
That doesn't look good:

Lots of Dutch passengers on board, probably tourists.

The flight was going to continue on to Jakarta, so yeah, I think there´s already been over 100 Dutch passengers confirmed by travel angencies.

Separatists have at least one BUK mobile SAM launcher. Twitter feeds had pics in last week of BUK in Eastern Ukraine, another shot posted today.

I'd like to note here that this analysis is purely speculative. With that stated....

As things stand, the Ukrainian Government said from the word go that the aircraft was flying at 33,000 feet. As someone else already said, that immediately removes it from the range of anything shoulder mounted. We're talking about vehicle mounted, ground based, or aircraft missiles here. If it's the first two, we'll know who it was soon enough, simply because the US satellites will have picked up the vapour trails, etc. With all that said, we can proceed along the following reasoning:-

-The Ukrainian Government, the Ukrainian Rebels, and Russia all have nothing to gain from shooting down this aircraft. The only even possible reasoning would be to blame the other side, and since missiles that aren't fired from aircraft are more or less traceable, the risk would be too high for Russia or Ukraine to fire off a land based missile deliberately. The Russians meanwhile, wouldn't fly an aircraft into Ukrainian airspace to do the deed in case it was detected. So that more or less rules out Russia

-The Ukrainians wouldn't be able to shoot it down with an air to air missile and blame it on the rebels (as they have no aircraft to speak of). So they wouldn't have done it with a military aircraft deliberately.

This leaves us with the following options:-

1. The Donetsk rebels have had anti-air missiles passed over the border. It wouldn't be S-75's, as they've long since been decommissioned, and even if found wouldn't have any operators in Ukraine, which means it would have to be S-200 rockets or SAM-300's. Using one of the two they've then targeted the first thing they saw and shot it down, not realising (being new to this game), it was a civilian aircraft.

2. A Ukrainian missile or aircraft operator picked up the civilian aircraft on radar, but due to an equipment malfunction, mistook it for a Russian aircraft, and opened fire.

I'd peg it down to a 50/50 at this stage. I'm not entirely seeing the Russians being happy passing SAM-300's over the border when they were cagey about even giving them to Syria, but at the same time, equipment malfunction and trigger-happiness is equally unlikely.

Small posting glitch here has resulted in a post or 2 going, content wise they were fine and can be reposted if so desired.

Apologies for the trouble.

Putin might be dusting off that book on what happen afterwards when Russia shot a South Korean airliner. Sep's have secured the site

Good lord... the debris field is seven miles wide, which certainly makes it more likely that it exploded in the air:

#BREAKING: Emergency Ministry official on site says body parts scattered around up to 15 km from crash site, at least 100 bodies seen

— Reuters Top News (@Reuters) July 17, 2014

 whembly wrote:
Good lord... the debris field is seven miles wide, which certainly makes it more likely that it exploded in the air:

#BREAKING: Emergency Ministry official on site says body parts scattered around up to 15 km from crash site, at least 100 bodies seen

— Reuters Top News (@Reuters) July 17, 2014

Look at the top post on this page.

But yeah, it's pretty much a given at this point that it was shot down. Ukrainian flight control confirms the flight had no trouble prior to disapearing.

 Soladrin wrote:

 whembly wrote:
Good lord... the debris field is seven miles wide, which certainly makes it more likely that it exploded in the air:

#BREAKING: Emergency Ministry official on site says body parts scattered around up to 15 km from crash site, at least 100 bodies seen

— Reuters Top News (@Reuters) July 17, 2014

Look at the top post on this page.

But yeah, it's pretty much a given at this point that it was shot down. Ukrainian flight control confirms the flight had no trouble prior to disapearing.

Sorry bro... I derped on "15 kilomtres" to "15 km".

First world countries- The ones which sided with 'Mur'ca during the cold war
second world countries- Comrades of Mother Russia during the cold war
Third world- the neutral countries during the cold war
I recall this, when some racist kid in high school said the whole 3rd world should be killed with fire, and i passed him the lighter and said, do it, burn the Croatia
BACK TO TOPIC: I am REAAAAAAALLY sure that the USA will intervene, because Ukraine and Russia have lots of gas
20 Years ago, situation in Croatia was exactly like this except 10 times the worse, and because neither Croatia, Serbia nor ANY country in ex-Yugoslavia had oil or gas, no super power gave a flying Please don't bypass the language filter like this when posting in future. Reds8n . about Serbians killing Croatians, Croatians killing Serbians in retaliation, ethnical cleansing, and stuff best left undiscovered, so they just sent observers to see what is the situation(Read: Chill and talk while both sides were butchering each other)

No biggy, I've got a Dutch liveblog open on it so I'm pretty much getting this stuff real time.

Plane confirmed to have been broken in two before crashing.