Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2014/07/28 19:43:13
Subject: Ukraine: Witness the rise of a new Russian Empire, live!
There was a show that has showcased the plumbing profession (I know it was on "Undercover Boss" once, and also Dirty Jobs probably more than once in different ways)
2014/07/30 07:18:39
Subject: Ukraine: Witness the rise of a new Russian Empire, live!
What are you expecting? The swimsuit issue's photographer incognito deep into the Russian border?
Seems legit.
Guess I was under the impression that American spy satellites are more advanced and provide better photos than that.
Note to self: stop watching 24.
Or they are, it's just that it's not in the interest of the US to reveal just how good their best stuff is. If they think the grainy photographs are good enough, they might not see a reason to reveal further images, if such exist, just yet.
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
2014/07/30 11:13:57
Subject: Ukraine: Witness the rise of a new Russian Empire, live!
Ketara wrote: He wouldn't do it. The second he started seizing foreign assets, the sound of all foreign companies divesting themselves of all Russian holdings and money would be well nigh deafening (and would most likely send the Russian economy back to the dark ages). It shows that he feels he's being driven into a corner though, if he's threatening it.
At the end of the day, which is more important to him, a good economy or Russian Empire II? Remember they are actively trading with China now. They are China's energy company.
Are the French still selling them aircraft carriers?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ketara wrote: Correct. And if he's not even threatening to turn off the gas, but instead jumps to the biggest challenge he can give, it tells you that it's a bluff. If he was seriously considering action along those lines, he would have been willing to take the economic hit from turning off the gas (as it would be a lesser hit than seizing foreign holdings) as a first step. The twenty to ninety approach just indicates an attempt to intimidate Europe from any further action.
of course the Europeans haven't quit buying gas either. Its a bluff on both sides.
If I were Poland I would be ramping up big time and trying to find nukes pronto. Same to same for the Baltic countries.
Team Frazzled likes the Russkies odds on this one. For Mother Russia!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/30 11:16:08
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2014/07/30 11:52:00
Subject: Re:Ukraine: Witness the rise of a new Russian Empire, live!
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
2014/07/30 12:09:38
Subject: Re:Ukraine: Witness the rise of a new Russian Empire, live!
Jihadin wrote: France was paid in full to deliver two ships.
And? Refund the money. Europe has no will and we should not be involved when they are the ones this matters for, NOT US.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2014/07/30 18:56:05
Subject: Re:Ukraine: Witness the rise of a new Russian Empire, live!
Notice we're kind of pulling out of the world stage....
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
2014/07/30 20:32:11
Subject: Re:Ukraine: Witness the rise of a new Russian Empire, live!
Ketara wrote: He wouldn't do it. The second he started seizing foreign assets, the sound of all foreign companies divesting themselves of all Russian holdings and money would be well nigh deafening (and would most likely send the Russian economy back to the dark ages). It shows that he feels he's being driven into a corner though, if he's threatening it.
At the end of the day, which is more important to him, a good economy or Russian Empire II? Remember they are actively trading with China now. They are China's energy company.
UK at least would pay a price for heavier sanctions. We import about 90% of the coal we use from Russia, a good proportion of the gas too (although mostly from Norway I believe for the latter). And, fossil fuels are still the major energy producers - it will start getting expensive for us if things 'escalate' much beyond stopping Russian politicans from opening bank accounts.
Russia knows this too, they also have a lot to lose. Although, arguably less now than before thanks to their new deals with China.
Frazzled wrote: Europe has no will and we should not be involved when they are the ones this matters for, NOT US.
Because the "distant island" mentality has served the US so well in the past, right?
It did indeed for centuries. A nice neutral only policy seems to have served the Swiss quite well.
If its good enough for Germany, its good enough for us.
I have two friends with sons who have been broken by these wars. Enough.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2014/08/02 17:41:39
Subject: Re:Ukraine: Witness the rise of a new Russian Empire, live!
Naziism raises it's head again. Watch with subtitles on.
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
2014/08/02 17:57:02
Subject: Re:Ukraine: Witness the rise of a new Russian Empire, live!
This can be possible because Donbass at all is a region which is...this is not just depressive region you understand.
There is a huge complex of problems, the most important is that there a huge number of absolutely needless people.
Believe me, I'm fully aware to say this. For example when speaking only about Donetsk region, there are appropriately 4 million people. Around 1.5 million people are just needless and excessive.
What I want to say, is that we don't need to understand Donbass, we need to fully understand Ukrainian national interest, and Donbass must be used as a resource. So, as for understanding of Donbass, I think that...I don't have any recipe for what can be done quickly , but...the most important thing to do at the precise moment, no matter how cruel it will sound, there is a certain category of people who must be killed.
Feth me.
Apparently he thinks that 1.5 million people in the Donetsk region are superfluous to requirements and must be liquidated. And "Donbass is a resource".
Who is this prick? Is he really in government?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/02 17:58:58
2014/08/02 18:09:03
Subject: Ukraine: Witness the rise of a new Russian Empire, live!
Prestor Jon wrote: Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
2014/08/02 18:16:30
Subject: Ukraine: Witness the rise of a new Russian Empire, live!
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Its quite frightening that some people in government hold these sorts of views. The guys a bloodthirsty, raving lunatic.
Anyone know who he is? Does he have any real political power e.g. a government minister?
It was the governor of Kherson
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
2014/08/02 18:28:54
Subject: Ukraine: Witness the rise of a new Russian Empire, live!
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Its quite frightening that some people in government hold these sorts of views. The guys a bloodthirsty, raving lunatic.
Anyone know who he is? Does he have any real political power e.g. a government minister?
It was the governor of Kherson
The governor of Kherson is Yuri Odarchenko isn't it?
Edit:
This is apparently Bogdan Butkevich, a Ukrainian "journalist".
There's enough crap going around without trying to make gak up, thanks!
Edit 2: Apparently this is an edited video which is cut to make it look like he is suggesting the cleansing of 1.5 million people. Here is the full interview:
You can use Youtube translate options for captions.
And here is what the man himself said in the comments of that video:
I want to finally arrange the record straight in this crappy story with video editing my interview hromadske.tv .
1) Distributed by Russian Ukrainian propahandonamy and their yes-men video editing is false. I never suggested killing the residents of Donbass. Here's the original interview Bogdan Butkevych: the Slavic want to thank the wonderful Party of Regions - Redefine not be lazy. My words are blinded in the right way for rashkinskyh vylupkiv and now used as an ideological weapon. An important point - the interview was recorded on April 29. Feykovyy installation was at the end of June. But he began to unwind now that Russia has once again makes whipping up hysteria campaign Donbas - the people who work for the interests of the same Kremlin or "colleagues" tasty for personal PR by slander others.
2) As for the kill. I said that we must kill terrorists. Which is not perehovorozdatnymy and who took arms in their hands. And development has shown that this is the case, and thus is involved in the Ukrainian army in the East. The only thing I regret - not clearly arytkulyuvav whom it must be destroyed, and that made it possible katsapskiy scum distort my words. Speaking specifically about who exactly are these terrorists - it is direct Russian mercenaries and volunteers, as well as lyumpensko-bandit stratum Donbass, which became the main base for the Russian aggression. These words are ready to repeat many times - for terrorists have only one argument - the ball.
3) As for the extra people. When people redundant meant numerous workers unskilled labor, which brought mass at Donbass in the 1970s-1980s and who are accustomed to working life in the mines and factories mehaarhayichnyh that still exist only because of government support and system dohovornyakiv Donbass nomenclature of Kyiv. Like you we bashlyayete for the maintenance of all this junk and prefer feeding on the ground, and in return we guarantee at least some loyalty lumpen. This lyumpensko-oligarchic model is now hopelessly broken. In Ukraine no longer of 14-15 billion. annually to maintain nekonkurentnozdatnyh mines and infrastructure - and this is not only the mine but also, for example, universities that produce specialists Computing business, lots of companies that issue only sharpened by the equipment for mines, appropriate social infrastructure. I am sure that soon we will see the collapse of the Donbas economic system - and I've seen it dozens of dying and napivzakynutyh mining towns. Millions of people who can not do anything else and be around blaming Ukraine, vykydatymutsya outside. Do you think that Akhmetov ZVIAHILSKY, legal Enakievskaya or state will take care of them? However, a considerable number of these people do not want to do something else, even if they provide such an opportunity, because they are living in vtovkmachuvaly head of Mourne "heroic miners' work 'and' glory steelmakers." Think about what happens to these people after 80% of permanent closure of existing loss-making enterprises. Who they are not extra people? Not in terms of all the hype, and the economic and social terms. The question of what to do with these people will be very soon - especially given the very difficult economic situation. Just tomorrow. And if the question does not ask today, tomorrow we will get even worse revolt in Donbass - social rebellion, it is of local origin.
4) I absolutely do not regret that he said what he said. Yes, very sharp, politically incorrect, even brutal. But then I realized that we are on the verge of full-scale war. I cried about it as I could. When many of those who now moralizatorstvuye and throwing gak at me rejoice beeps Akhmetov, I expected shoot a "city". Used to call a spade a spade, even when someone does not like and sounded awful. Job is, you know? And do not tell me what I supposedly violate the unity of the country. Violate the unity of the country idiots who pereposchuyut outright fake - I am a real interview just said what he thinks about a considerable number of appropriate people in this country. I wrote a bunch of people from the East and in particular, are grateful for the bitter truth.
5) Most of all, I worry about the ease with which katsapnya zmanipulyuvala public opinion. To do this, it was so little - zvarhanenyy primitive assembly, and went to heat. A number of Ukrainian, even among those who consider themselves the intellectual elite, never learned to check the information and have no immunity against rashkovanskyh manipulation.
6) This interview (real) has nothing to do with publishing week in which I have the honor to work. This is my personal position, which was made entirely on my own.
7) Thank you very much to all people of good will and a sober mind, who understood the nature of this dirty provocation. What are trying to spread the truth and support me.
8) I absolutely FSUs what people think about me and my words in Russian channels and cotton in the broadest sense. They are - enemies, and enemies thought I was not interested. The only thing that worried - many zazombovanyh menshkantsiv East stverdyatsya only one in the entire criminal nonsense, which they throw on matskvy. Well, that's not what I wanted - but if even one person opens his eyes, will assume his task accomplished.
Make of this what you will.
To add, originally posted on facebook but since deleted, I viewed this using google cache:
Ukrainian journalist Bogdan Butkevich did not urge for killing 1,5 mln civilians in Donbas as recent Kremlin's propaganda sources present in the fake news.
LifeNews, Russian media company, cut pieces from an old Bogdan Butkevich's interview with gromadske.tv from April 29th and fabricated a forged interview in order to pass it off as a revelation of a bloody fascist. 24СМИ published an article "Ukrainian journalist suggested to kill 1.5mln extra people in Donbass" with counterfeit news and referring to another article by Вести: "Ukrainian journalist. Too many people live in Donbas, some of them just have to be killed." Kremlin propaganda sources and many FB users are happily spreading the bogus sensational news while the original gromadske,tv interview is readily available on youtube.com. It is easy to see how the fake news were fabricated; obvious when you are aware to watch for the cuts.
In the first part of his original interview, Butkevitch explained the situation with unemployment in Donbas region and mentioned that 1,5 mln people cannot find something to do. They are feeling like extras.
As for "appeals to the murder", the journalist was talking about terrorist leaders, those who abducted journalists, tortured and killed civilians, who photographed the corpses of our soldiers. Words were pulled out of the context in which he spoke about the militants, criminals with guns, bandits formations with whom Ukrainian government should not negotiate.
So, the first part of the original interview was about desperation of people in Donbas region from unemployment situation and second - about uncivilized cruelty of terrorists. LifeNews assembled a forged montage taking 1,5 mln excessive population out of context of the first part and the phrase referring to unacceptable negotiations with the terrorists from the second part. Then fabricated fake news.
But can you explain this to the victims of Russian propaganda?
The original gromadske.tv interview from April 29th:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCD4RS9LsTI
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2014/08/02 18:50:35
Prestor Jon wrote: Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
2014/08/02 18:54:49
Subject: Re:Ukraine: Witness the rise of a new Russian Empire, live!
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Its quite frightening that some people in government hold these sorts of views. The guys a bloodthirsty, raving lunatic.
Anyone know who he is? Does he have any real political power e.g. a government minister?
It was the governor of Kherson
The governor of Kherson is Yuri Odarchenko isn't it?
Edit:
This is apparently Bogdan Butkevich, a Ukrainian "journalist".
There's enough crap going around without trying to make gak up, thanks!
I asked somebody who said the name I gave you.
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
2014/08/02 18:55:37
Subject: Ukraine: Witness the rise of a new Russian Empire, live!
You were wrong, apologise for trying to spread bs and getting caught and move on.
Edit: actually, don't move on, realise that this is fething pathetic and stop fething doing it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/02 18:57:42
Prestor Jon wrote: Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
2014/08/02 18:57:33
Subject: Ukraine: Witness the rise of a new Russian Empire, live!
You were wrong, apologise for trying to spread bs and getting caught and move on.
In your dreams
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
2014/08/02 18:58:47
Subject: Ukraine: Witness the rise of a new Russian Empire, live!
Trust me, you ain't in my dreams. But at the very least you've shown yourself to be completely untrustworthy and happy to peddle pathetic propaganda, so hopefully in future no-one will bother listening to you.
I mean, they shouldn't after the infowars crap, but this should cement that.
Enjoy!
Prestor Jon wrote: Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
