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This isn't a game of who's contry has done the least/most fethed up gak. You really want to stat that one? :-)

This is a game of who shot down the Malasian Airliner.

Answer: The Russians.

 kronk wrote:
This isn't a game of who's contry has done the least/most fethed up gak. You really want to stat that one? :-)

This is a game of who shot down the Malasian Airliner.

Answer: The Russians.

Russian Rebels, potentially supplied by the Russians.*

You really think that Putin ordered the thing to be shot down? No.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
You missed have missed that Malaysian Airliner thing.

Which has been conclusively attributed to Ukrainian rebels, who may or may not have been supplied by the Russians, not Russia itself.

Russian proxies.

Don't ever forget that. That blood is on Putin's hands.

So has America.

if you're going to start moralising, perhaps you should look inwards and consider your own country's many crimes.

So has UK... wanna start this game?

 thenoobbomb wrote:

 kronk wrote:
This isn't a game of who's contry has done the least/most fethed up gak. You really want to stat that one? :-)

This is a game of who shot down the Malasian Airliner.

Answer: The Russians.

Russian Rebels, potentially supplied by the Russians.*

You really think that Putin ordered the thing to be shot down? No.

If a man gives his 5 year old a loaded gun, is he not responsible when that 5 year old shoots something?

I thought not.

Also, you honestly believe that there aren't Russian military among the rebels? The guys manning these AA rockets aren't actual Russians? Really? Really, really? OK then.

He certainly didn't.

To me, the most plausible reason is that the rebels shot the plane down because they are idiots, with anti-air supplied by Russia. Which makes the latter just as responsible as the former. It's like giving a small child a handgun to play with and when an accident happens, you're all like "Nonono, that was not myyyyy fault!".

And just btw: Russia driving in Ukraine with those trucks without permission is similar to them driving over the border with a tank. They are breaking international law. Again.

/e: http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/news_112089.htm

Russia turning up the heat.

 kronk wrote:

 thenoobbomb wrote:

 kronk wrote:
This isn't a game of who's contry has done the least/most fethed up gak. You really want to stat that one? :-)

This is a game of who shot down the Malasian Airliner.

Answer: The Russians.

Russian Rebels, potentially supplied by the Russians.*

You really think that Putin ordered the thing to be shot down? No.

If a man gives his 5 year old a loaded gun, is he not responsible when that 5 year old shoots something?

I thought not.

Also, you honestly believe that there aren't Russian military among the rebels? The guys manning these AA rockets aren't actual Russians? Really? Really, really? OK then.

Yeah, I don't think it was shot down by evil anti-American commies (hurr). Because they'd have recognized the civilian transmissions/codes/thingiegummwhatnots the plane was broadcasting.

I'll be going now. Internet arguments aren't very good for my health

 thenoobbomb wrote:

 kronk wrote:
This isn't a game of who's contry has done the least/most fethed up gak. You really want to stat that one? :-)

This is a game of who shot down the Malasian Airliner.

Answer: The Russians.

Russian Rebels, potentially supplied by the Russians.*

You really think that Putin ordered the thing to be shot down? No.

Do I really think Putin gave advanced antiaircraft weaponry to the rebels, operated by Russian crews? You betcha. All over the internet they had the selfie of the Russian soldier, where they tracked the selfie was taken on the Ukrainian side of the border. OOPS!

This ain't a simple Black & White case of "Russia = BAD. West & Friends = GOOD" like some people here seem to think. I see a nasty conflict in which both sides are guilty of despicable acts. Yet all we ever hear about in this thread is Russia's crimes.

[MOD EDIT: preview imagine is rather gory. Spoilered now. - Alpharius]


How the feth can you people side with a government that does this to its own people??

You moralise, and condemn Russia for supposedly shooting down a civilian airliner (when the evidence suggests that it was Ukrainian Rebels who shot it down, not Russians).

But THIS is why the Rebels are operating AA systems, and shooting down aircraft. To fight back, and defend themselves against airstrikes, that seem to be killing as many Ukrainian civilians as Ukrainian Rebels.

This is a fething war. Bad things happen in war, including accidental shoot downs of civilian aircraft like MH170. If you don't want accidents like this to happen, then don't start a war, or don't cheer on the belligerents in a War.

 whembly wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
You missed have missed that Malaysian Airliner thing.

Which has been conclusively attributed to Ukrainian rebels, who may or may not have been supplied by the Russians, not Russia itself.

Russian proxies.

Don't ever forget that. That blood is on Putin's hands.

So has America.

if you're going to start moralising, perhaps you should look inwards and consider your own country's many crimes.

So has UK... wanna start this game?

Oh, I agree absolutely. My country has quite a lot of blood on its hands too. I quite frequently condemn my own country and government on this forum, not just the USA.

Point is, there are a lot of hypocrites in this thread, condemning Russia for supplying arms to Rebels (something the West also does when it suits us). Yet they cheer on the Government in Kiev, as it bombs its own people, with airstrikes and artillery.

The West really isn't all that different to Russia when it comes to stoking up violent conflicts to pursue our agenda's and national interests. We just disguise our motives better and dress it up as liberal interventionism and all that BS.

 thenoobbomb wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 thenoobbomb wrote:

 kronk wrote:
This isn't a game of who's contry has done the least/most fethed up gak. You really want to stat that one? :-)

This is a game of who shot down the Malasian Airliner.

Answer: The Russians.

Russian Rebels, potentially supplied by the Russians.*

You really think that Putin ordered the thing to be shot down? No.

If a man gives his 5 year old a loaded gun, is he not responsible when that 5 year old shoots something?

I thought not.

Also, you honestly believe that there aren't Russian military among the rebels? The guys manning these AA rockets aren't actual Russians? Really? Really, really? OK then.

Yeah, I don't think it was shot down by evil anti-American commies (hurr).

No one said it was on purpose. But that doesn't mean Russia isn't responsible.

 Frazzled wrote:

 thenoobbomb wrote:

 kronk wrote:
This isn't a game of who's contry has done the least/most fethed up gak. You really want to stat that one? :-)

This is a game of who shot down the Malasian Airliner.

Answer: The Russians.

Russian Rebels, potentially supplied by the Russians.*

You really think that Putin ordered the thing to be shot down? No.

Do I really think Putin gave advanced antiaircraft weaponry to the rebels, operated by Russian crews? You betcha. All over the internet they had the selfie of the Russian soldier, where they tracked the selfie was taken on the Ukrainian side of the border. OOPS!

*Citation needed.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
This ain't a simple Black & White case of "Russia = BAD. West & Friends = GOOD" like some people here seem to think. I see a nasty conflict in which both sides are guilty of despicable acts. Yet all we ever hear about in this thread is Russia's crimes.

First of all, I do hope for the mods to immediately react and remove that video of yours.

Secondly: the Russia-supported rebels CHOSE this war, not Ukraine. The rebels armed themselves with the help of Russia after the latter invaded the Krim. They then occupied public buildings and took control of large regions. They refused to take part in ANY diplomatic undertaking suggested by the Ukraine, the EU and US. They did not let Ukraine any choice but to use military force. The rebels have zero legimitation, they are a root that must be uprooted with an iron fist. The sooner the last of them is killed, the better for the world. It is a pity that they hide among civilians, else eradicating them would be much easier.

/e: Thanks Alphie :*

 kronk wrote:

If a man gives his 5 year old a loaded gun, is he not responsible when that 5 year old shoots something?

I thought not.

If that kid is defending himself against someone trying to kill him, No.

Stop taking MH170 out of context, its disingenuous. The reason why the Rebels are shooting down aircraft in the first place is to defend against the Ukraine Government's brutal bombing campaign.

What the feth do you expect? That the Rebels just not shoot back at the aircraft raining down bombs all over East Ukraine?

Also, you honestly believe that there aren't Russian military among the rebels? The guys manning these AA rockets aren't actual Russians? Really? Really, really? OK then.

You honestly believe the CIA and other Western intelligence agencies aren't covertly providing aid and intelligence to the Ukraine Government?

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

Spoiler:

This ain't a simple Black & White case of "Russia = BAD. West & Friends = GOOD" like some people here seem to think. I see a nasty conflict in which both sides are guilty of despicable acts. Yet all we ever hear about in this thread is Russia's crimes.

[MOD EDIT: preview imagine is rather gory. Spoilered now. - Alpharius]
[spoiler]

How the feth can you people side with a government that does this to its own people??

You moralise, and condemn Russia for supposedly shooting down a civilian airliner (when the evidence suggests that it was Ukrainian Rebels who shot it down, not Russians).

But THIS is why the Rebels are operating AA systems, and shooting down aircraft. To fight back, and defend themselves against airstrikes, that seem to be killing as many Ukrainian civilians as Ukrainian Rebels.

This is a fething war. Bad things happen in war, including accidental shoot downs of civilian aircraft like MH170. If you don't want accidents like this to happen, then don't start a war, or don't cheer on the belligerents in a War.

 whembly wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
You missed have missed that Malaysian Airliner thing.

Which has been conclusively attributed to Ukrainian rebels, who may or may not have been supplied by the Russians, not Russia itself.

Russian proxies.

Don't ever forget that. That blood is on Putin's hands.

So has America.

if you're going to start moralising, perhaps you should look inwards and consider your own country's many crimes.

So has UK... wanna start this game?

[/spoiler]

Oh, I agree absolutely. My country has quite a lot of blood on its hands too. I quite frequently condemn my own country and government on this forum, not just the USA.

Point is, there are a lot of hypocrites in this thread, condemning Russia for supplying arms to Rebels (something the West also does when it suits us). Yet they cheer on the Government in Kiev, as it bombs its own people, with airstrikes and artillery.

The West really isn't all that different to Russia when it comes to stoking up violent conflicts to pursue our agenda's and national interests. We just disguise our motives better and dress it up as liberal interventionism and all that BS.

Well... that's just it.

Sometimes it doesn't matter. In War™, it can simply boils down to who do you want to win and lose. That's it.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 thenoobbomb wrote:

 kronk wrote:
This isn't a game of who's contry has done the least/most fethed up gak. You really want to stat that one? :-)

This is a game of who shot down the Malasian Airliner.

Answer: The Russians.

Russian Rebels, potentially supplied by the Russians.*

You really think that Putin ordered the thing to be shot down? No.

Do I really think Putin gave advanced antiaircraft weaponry to the rebels, operated by Russian crews? You betcha. All over the internet they had the selfie of the Russian soldier, where they tracked the selfie was taken on the Ukrainian side of the border. OOPS!

*Citation needed.

http://nypost.com/2014/07/31/soldiers-selfies-might-prove-russias-role-in-ukraine/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2711722/The-Russian-soldier-selfie-obsession-prove-Putin-operating-Ukraine-Comms-officer-operates-kit-like-used-MH17-accidentally-reveals-border.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/08/01/selfie-russian-soldier-ukraine_n_5640779.html

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:


You honestly believe the CIA and other Western intelligence agencies aren't covertly providing aid and intelligence to the Ukraine Government?

a) There's quite a difference between providing intel and SHOOTING AT A COUNTRY WITH ARTILLERY along with providing rebels with arms and breaking international law by invading a country TWICE.

b) EU / USA are helping a country fight off rebels. That's a legimitate case. It doesn't work the other way around.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 kronk wrote:

If a man gives his 5 year old a loaded gun, is he not responsible when that 5 year old shoots something?

I thought not.

If that kid is defending himself against someone trying to kill him, No.

Stop taking MH170 out of context, its disingenuous. The reason why the Rebels are shooting down aircraft in the first place is to defend against the Ukraine Government's brutal bombing campaign.

What the feth do you expect? That the Rebels just not shoot back at the aircraft raining down bombs all over East Ukraine?

So, the "rebels", which are NOT actually Russian military AT ALL, started a war to leave the Ukraine and join Russia, and we're supposed to feel sorry for them?

Who is the one with the fethed up morals here?

 kronk wrote:


Who is the one with the fethed up morals here?

Uh, uh, take me, I know it! I know it!

Saying "Oh the poor rebels were attacked!" is the same as supporting any African warlord because he is just "defending himself" against the country. Poor, poor African warlords :(

 Sigvatr wrote:

 kronk wrote:


Who is the one with the fethed up morals here?

Uh, uh, take me, I know it! I know it!

Saying "Oh the poor rebels were attacked!" is the same as supporting any African warlord because he is just "defending himself" against the country. Poor, poor African warlords :(

I am Spartacus!

That cat looks slightly annoyed. Slightly!

 Sigvatr wrote:
First of all, I do hope for the mods to immediately react and remove that video of yours.

Why? Doesn't suit your narrative?

Whilst I regret omitting the spoilers (lots of copy & pasting between multiple tags, must have missed the spoiler tags), I don't think we should be trying to hide just how brutal both sides in this conflict are.

This is War. This is what happens to victims in War. To all the people up in arms about Russia supposedly shooting down MH170 and killing all those Western citizens. Well this is what the Ukraine Government is doing to East Ukrainians.

Also, it was Iron Captain's video not mine.

Secondly: the Russia-supported rebels CHOSE this war, not Ukraine.

In response to west Ukrainians overthrowing a Government and President who was popular in the East, encouraged and explicitly condoned and supported by us.

They then occupied public buildings and took control of large regions.

Just like Kiev.

They refused to take part in ANY diplomatic undertaking suggested by the Ukraine, the EU and US. They did not let Ukraine any choice but to use military force.

Just like Kiev.

The rebels have zero legimitation,

Just like Kiev.

they are a root that must be uprooted with an iron fist. The sooner the last of them is killed, the better for the world. It is a pity that they hide among civilians, else eradicating them would be much easier.

No matter how many people are killed in the process?

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
This ain't a simple Black & White case of "Russia = BAD. West & Friends = GOOD" like some people here seem to think. I see a nasty conflict in which both sides are guilty of despicable acts. Yet all we ever hear about in this thread is Russia's crimes.

First of all, I do hope for the mods to immediately react and remove that video of yours.

Secondly: the Russia-supported rebels CHOSE this war, not Ukraine. The rebels armed themselves with the help of Russia after the latter invaded the Krim. They then occupied public buildings and took control of large regions. They refused to take part in ANY diplomatic undertaking suggested by the Ukraine, the EU and US. They did not let Ukraine any choice but to use military force. The rebels have zero legimitation, they are a root that must be uprooted with an iron fist. The sooner the last of them is killed, the better for the world. It is a pity that they hide among civilians, else eradicating them would be much easier.

Ow, what is problem? Reality too harsh for you?
Your beloved Ukrainian government not the heroes they claim to be?
The pro-Russian protesters did not start this war. The pro-Western protesters did when they staged an illegal coup against the democratic government of Ukraine. The illegitimate interim-government did when they sent police, tanks and soldiers against what up to that point had been peaceful protesters. Peacefully occupying a government building is a sign of protest and an attempt to force negotiations, not an official declaration of war as you seem to think.

 kronk wrote:


So, the "rebels", which are NOT actually Russian military AT ALL, started a war to leave the Ukraine and join Russia, and we're supposed to feel sorry for them?

Who is the one with the fethed up morals here?

They did not start a war to join Russia. They started protests against the pro-Western coup in Kiev, to secure the rights of ethnic minorites and for more autonomy for their region. It was not until Kiev started a war against them that they wanted to join Russia.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
First of all, I do hope for the mods to immediately react and remove that video of yours.

Why? Doesn't suit your narrative?

It violates forum rules, that's because.

Also, it was Iron Captain's video not mine.

Ignored him a long time ago so I just saw you posting it.

"just like Kiev",

You're definitely going to back dis up, aren't ya?

No matter how many people are killed in the process?

I recall someone saying "It's war". It's a war Ukraine did not choose, but was forced into. It's a war that is only going on because Russia is secretly supporting rebels hiding among civilians.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 kronk wrote:


Who is the one with the fethed up morals here?

Uh, uh, take me, I know it! I know it!

Saying "Oh the poor rebels were attacked!" is the same as supporting any African warlord because he is just "defending himself" against the country. Poor, poor African warlords :(

I am Spartacus!

Frazz is that you holding a wiener dog that is wearing catoflauge?

Ow, what is problem? Reality too harsh for you?

Because we are, after all, on a website dedicated to extremely expensive toy soldiers, and not 4Chan.

 kronk wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 kronk wrote:

If a man gives his 5 year old a loaded gun, is he not responsible when that 5 year old shoots something?

I thought not.

If that kid is defending himself against someone trying to kill him, No.

Stop taking MH170 out of context, its disingenuous. The reason why the Rebels are shooting down aircraft in the first place is to defend against the Ukraine Government's brutal bombing campaign.

What the feth do you expect? That the Rebels just not shoot back at the aircraft raining down bombs all over East Ukraine?

So, the "rebels", which are NOT actually Russian military AT ALL, started a war to leave the Ukraine and join Russia, and we're supposed to feel sorry for them?

No, we're supposed to condemn BOTH sides and coerce them by economic sanctions and diplomatic pressure to come to a negotiating table.

Not pour gasoline on the fire by encouraging the side we happen to like the most, to kill the side we like the least.

Who is the one with the fethed up morals here?

Anybody who condemns one side for acts of murder, whilst cheering on the other equally murderous side. Which appears to be 3/4 of the people posting in this thread.

 Frazzled wrote:

Ow, what is problem? Reality too harsh for you?

Because we are, after all, on a website dedicated to extremely expensive toy soldiers, and not 4Chan.

But hey, this is the off topic forum is it not?
In a thread about a real war, in which real people like you and me are killed. This is not about toy soldiers.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 thenoobbomb wrote:

 kronk wrote:
This isn't a game of who's contry has done the least/most fethed up gak. You really want to stat that one? :-)

This is a game of who shot down the Malasian Airliner.

Answer: The Russians.

Russian Rebels, potentially supplied by the Russians.*

You really think that Putin ordered the thing to be shot down? No.

Do I really think Putin gave advanced antiaircraft weaponry to the rebels, operated by Russian crews? You betcha. All over the internet they had the selfie of the Russian soldier, where they tracked the selfie was taken on the Ukrainian side of the border. OOPS!

*Citation needed.

http://nypost.com/2014/07/31/soldiers-selfies-might-prove-russias-role-in-ukraine/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2711722/The-Russian-soldier-selfie-obsession-prove-Putin-operating-Ukraine-Comms-officer-operates-kit-like-used-MH17-accidentally-reveals-border.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/08/01/selfie-russian-soldier-ukraine_n_5640779.html

Thankyou.

Curse me, but I tend to be on the side of a country defending itself against rebels hiding among civilians, covertly supported by a freedom-hating and fully corrupt country that aims for the destabilization of a large region and purposefully violates international law. Weird. Shooting down a civilian airplane and / or supporting shooting it down is another downer :(

Who is the one with the fethed up morals here?

Anybody who condemns one side for acts of murder, whilst cheering on the other equally murderous side. Which appears to be 3/4 of the people posting in this thread.

Exactly. It's absolutely disgusting.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:


No, we're supposed to condemn BOTH sides and coerce them by economic sanctions and diplomatic pressure to come to a negotiating table.

Not pour gasoline on the fire by encouraging the side we happen to like the most, to kill the side we like the least.

Meh... the fields of battle are a negotiating table of sorts, I neither support nor despise any one side in this thing