Ukraine: Witness the rise of a new Russian Empire, live!

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**loki old fart**

From the bbc. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28961080

pdf for our non british friends.

Russian media report 'invasion of Ukraine'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28965597

Attachments removed. Sorry you need to find a different host for these.
Reds8n

**whembly**

Russia invades, Obama expresses ‘concern’

Russian forces in two armored columns captured a key southeastern coastal town near the Russian border Thursday after Ukrainian forces retreated in the face of superior firepower, a Ukrainian military spokesman said.

The two Russian columns, including tanks and armored fighting vehicles, entered the town of Novoazovsk on the Sea of Azov after a battle in which Ukrainian army positions came under fire from Grad rockets launched from Russian territory, according to the spokesman, Col. Andriy Lysenko.

“Our border servicemen and guardsmen retreated as they did not have heavy equipment,” Lysenko said in a statement.

Ukrainian authorities have denounced the latest fighting as a Russian invasion of their territory, intended to prop up pro-Moscow separatists who have been losing ground to Ukrainian forces and to open a new front in the southeastern corner of Ukraine.

What was the Obama administration’s initial reaction? “These incursions indicate a Russian-directed counteroffensive is likely underway in Donetsk and Luhansk. Clearly, that is of deep concern to us,” a State Department spokeswoman said yesterday. She could not have been more inoffensive. Oh, the administration is also “concerned by the Russian Government’s unwillingness to tell the truth even as its soldiers are found 30 miles inside Ukraine. Russia is sending its young men into Ukraine but are telling – are not telling them where they’re going or telling their parents what they’re doing.” The spokeswoman further indicated that we wouldn’t change our policy of refusing to provide Ukraine with defensive weapons.

Plainly, Russian President Vladimir Putin has taken the measure of President Obama and found him to be no obstacle to re-creation of the Russian empire. Former assistant secretary of state Brian Hook observes: “Putin’s aggression is a direct challenge to the post-Cold War security order in Europe that America largely created. The President doesn’t seem to fully appreciate this, which is both strange and troubling.” But it’s not unexpected, given his track record. Of course, the concern goes beyond Ukraine or even the other former (soon to be current Russian territories?) Soviet states. “Don’t forget that how we handle Ukraine has repercussions outside of Ukraine,” warns Hook. “What conclusion do you think China is drawing as they watch Russia easily outmaneuver the West?” Probably the same one Iran, Syria and other bad actors have come to.

There is no better example of the ruinous Obama foreign policy than Ukraine. The president has issued empty threats, diminished sanctions and refused to allow Ukraine to protect itself. If you are the leader of a Baltic state, you’re probably and justifiably panicked. The president will no doubt issue more empty threats. But that doesn’t do Ukraine any good, and it surely won’t protect other potential victims. Hillary Clinton‘s reset policy, it seems, has been a complete failure. Or is she going to blame others for this one as well?

So... Obama is "concerned" about Russia invading (apparently in order to subjugate) another independent state.

Sound like euphemism for "meh".

**Frazzled**

I share Obama's "meh."

**whembly**

Frazzled wrote:
I share Obama's "meh."

I was at first... but an actual invasion?

I'm not saying we need to to toe-to-toe... but, I think something more than "meh" is needed.

*shrug*

**chaos0xomega**

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/world/ukraine-crisis-russian-tanks-enter-ukraine-fire-missiles-at-border-post-1.2749066

100 years ago that would have been enough to start a world war

**Frazzled**

Nope not at all.

1. We did our bit for fifty years thank you.
2. This is Europe's fight, if even theirs.

**Sigvatr**

I'd welcome our new American Overlords taking over Europe. All it takes to get rid of the enemy in the East!

Seriously, though, just put on the big-boy pants and really hurt Putin and his BFFs by extremely severe sanctions.

**Ensis Ferrae**

Sigvatr wrote:
I'd welcome our new American Overlords taking over Europe. All it takes to get rid of the enemy in the East!

Well, all you guys would need is a strong leader with good public speaking skills, and to open up a few Boy Scout "camps"

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

chaos0xomega wrote:
http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/world/ukraine-crisis-russian-tanks-enter-ukraine-fire-missiles-at-border-post-1.2749066

100 years ago that would have been enough to start a world war

Good. Our leaders are finally learning the lessons of history.

**Jihadin**

Sigvatr wrote:
I'd welcome our new American Overlords taking over Europe. All it takes to get rid of the enemy in the East!

Seriously, though, just put on the big-boy pants and really hurt Putin and his BFFs by extremely severe sanctions.

SIGVATR!!!....actually wait...Germany has quite a few combat experience units...same as Poland, Romania, Finland, French Foreign Legion, Italy...to name a few..think Germany need to crank up a few hardcore Panzer Divisions...

Edit

What are we really going to do eh? Putin snags Ukraine but then we need their vote in the UN to deal with ISIS in Iraq and Syria. Keyword "Syria"

**Sigvatr**

Yeah, but Germany just as all of Europe learned their lesson.

Let the US fight a war, when it's over, blame them for being warmongers and when there's a new fire heating up...call them in to do the dirty work again! Ze clever German strategiz.

**Jihadin**

Sigvatr wrote:
Yeah, but Germany just as all of Europe learned their lesson.

Let the US fight a war, when it's over, blame them for being warmongers and when there's a new fire heating up...call them in to do the dirty work again! Ze clever German strategiz.

Negative. We're not getting involve being your flow of natural gas from Russia is flowing.......and Winter is Coming

**Frazzled**

Exactly.

No thanks. I'm down with Obama pulling a Europe and doing nothing on it.

Frankly NATO itself is dead.

**A Town Called Malus**

The crisis is mainly mentioned in commentaries about Tuesday's talks in Minsk between the Russian and Ukrainian presidents, with Konstantin Bondarenko writing in Nezavisimaya Gazeta that "Vladimir Putin… showed he is not a bully and not a dictator" because "aggressors and dictators refuse to negotiate".

Strange, I seem to remember reading about certain negotiations between two moustachio'd men... something about dividing up Poland, Romania, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and Finland...

Must be imagining it, I suppose....

**Jihadin**

A Town Called Malus wrote:
The crisis is mainly mentioned in commentaries about Tuesday's talks in Minsk between the Russian and Ukrainian presidents, with Konstantin Bondarenko writing in Nezavisimaya Gazeta that "Vladimir Putin… showed he is not a bully and not a dictator" because "aggressors and dictators refuse to negotiate".

Strange, I seem to remember reading about certain negotiations between two moustachio'd men... something about dividing up Poland, Romania, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and Finland...

Must be imagining it, I suppose....

Brush up on that time period

**Sigvatr**

Jihadin wrote:

Negative. We're not getting involve being your flow of natural gas from Russia is flowing.......and Winter is Coming

Hah, joke's on you, we're just making our holiday home in Calinfornia our primary home!

**Frazzled**

Hah jokes right back on you. You're going to be living in Florida.

HAHAHAHAHAHA

**Sigvatr**

Ehem, California.

I have no idea how I mixed them up. Had the image of California in my mind. Wrote Florida. The biggest swamp of the US. Mush, mush.

**Frazzled**

Thats even worse!

**Sigvatr**

Frazzled wrote:
Thats even worse!

No way. We love it D: Nice weather, good infrastructure.

Better zan ze east coast. We're going to run in the NYC Marathon again and will stay for a week, but...well...we're not liking it :(

**Frazzled**

Southern California? Ever sat in traffic for two hours one way EVERY DAY OF YOUR LIFE????

**Sigvatr**

We got stuck in a traffic jam really badly a few years ago...iirc, the second year after buying the house. Meh, happens. Quality of living makes up for it

**Jihadin**

Let's not forget the tax's in Cali

**Sigvatr**

Live in Germany for a few years as a couple with a large income and you will never ever complain about taxes

**Jihadin**

What you pay for in a liter of gas is what we pay for in a gallon

**Sigvatr**

Jihadin wrote:
What you pay for in a liter of gas is what we pay for in a gallon

Yarrrr. We have actually considered moving to the US quite a few times already. Still got a few good reasons to stay here though. Maybe when our daughter is older. Or a war breaks loose

F3 / E1 ftw!

**xole**

Southern California has gone from being only mostly a desert to being a full blown desert over the last few years

I share the 'meh' about Europe. It's someone else's problem. Not someone who can stand up to Russia, probably, but that's their problem too.

**Soladrin**

Way to drag this off topic.

**BaronIveagh**

I find it hilarious that Putin accuses Kiev of being Neo-Nazis and at the same time has been copying Hitler's playbook..

Crimea = Sudetenland
Ukraine = Czechoslovakia but using the same strategy Hitler used in Spain, ala the Condor Legion.

The problem is that if he follows true, next he snags something people actually care about (Poland for Big Irony!) and we get WW3.

Followed by years later Frazz bitching that they weren't stopped back when they grabbed Crimea, before Texas was bombed and all the Dachshunds rounded up in camps and made into borscht.

BTW" It's nice to read a BBC article on some of the stuff I've been taking about for weeks now.

Doing some quick math between several reports I've read, assuming that the Rebels are not shooting the gak re how many Russians are in the Ukraine, and that Estonian estimates about Russian casualties are not similarly BS, the Russians have taken 10% casualties so far. Over 100 wounded have mysteriously turned up at a military Hospital in Saint Petersburg with secret funerals and 'killed while training' have been seeing a massive spike, including the CO of the same unit those paratroopers came from, apparently.

Also,. apparently Comrade Putin isn't too keen on Russian press reporting on what's going on:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28949582

**Co'tor Shas**

Yeah, there totally aren't Russian troops in Ukraine *wink* *wink*.