Ukraine: Witness the rise of a new Russian Empire, live!

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**KamikazeCanuck**

Ensis Ferrae wrote:
KamikazeCanuck wrote:
With ISIS grabbing all the headlines Putin can do pretty much whatever he wants now. No one even remembers where Ukraine is anymore.

Isn't that a part of Canada??

Possibly, who knows anymore? Well Putin says he knows what part of Ukraine is part of what. You'd have to ask him I reckon.

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

All your country are belong to us.

Sincerely,

Putin.

**Ashiraya**

ISIS was created by Putin to draw attention away from his conquests in Europe.

/tinfoilhat

**loki old fart**

Ashiraya wrote:
ISIS was created by Putin to draw attention away from his conquests in Europe.

/tinfoilhat

Strange they think its us backed.
Western special services might be behind ISIS terrorists

The leaders of Islamic terrorists could be under the direct influence of NATO and Western powers using their movements to threaten Russia’s territorial integrity, says a former general of Russian military intelligence service.

“There are some grounds to suspect that American and British special services could support the Islamic extremists in order to target the territorial integrity of the Russian Federation,” Lieutenant-General Nikolai Pushkaryov, formerly of the Central Intelligence Directorate of the Russian General Staff said in an interview with the RIA-Novosti news agency. “The top of these movements can be under the influence of NATO agents,” he added.

The general also commented on the statement by the head of the Chechen Republic, Ramzan Kadyrov, who promised to destroy any Islamic terrorist who voiced threats against Russia. Kadyrov also told reporters that Chechen special services intended to hunt down and kill Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi – the head of the Islamic State group (also known as ISIL and ISIS), adding that this man had been recruited to work for the US by General David Petraeus, the former director of the CIA, and former commander of coalition forces in Iraq and Afghanistan. Back then, Kadyrov claimed the Islamic State “was acting on orders from the West and Europe.”

Pushkaryov said in his interview that he took Kadyrov’s words very seriously and believed that the head of the Chechen Republic could bring his plans to fruition. “I have a great respect towards Ramzan Kadyrov. If he and his men want to find this man, they would be capable of doing it,” he stated.

The head of Russia’s Federal Security Service, Aleksandr Bortnikov named the Islamic State as a primary threat at the meeting of the heads of special services of the CIS states on Wednesday.

Bortnikov said that IS terrorists receive combat training and experience in Iraq and Syria and then return to their home countries, including the CIS nations, as instructors, recruiters and experts in the terrorist underground. He added that the Taliban and other radical groups in Afghanistan and Pakistan were ready to adopt these methods and this carried additional threats to the CIS countries.

Russia has acknowledged the threat that comes from the Islamic State and promised to support countries and groups fighting against the organization. However, when in September US Secretary of State John Kerry said that in his view Russia must join the international fight against the IS terrorists, the head of the Russian Foreign Ministry’s Department for New Challenges and Threats, Ilya Rogachev, said that the country “did not expect any invitations and was not going to buy entry tickets,” into the US-led anti-IS coalition. Rogachev added that Russia was ready to help all IS opponents, including members of the coalition being formed by the US, but under the condition that they stop using double standards and remain within the framework of international law.

**AlmightyWalrus**

loki old fart wrote:
Rogachev added that Russia was ready to help all IS opponents, including members of the coalition being formed by the US, but under the condition that they stop using double standards and remain within the framework of international law.

So what they're saying is that they're willing to help, as long as no one accepts Russian help?

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

Well it wouldn't be the first time the USA has financed and supported Islamic groups fighting against Russia. Remember Afghanistan's Mujaheddin?

**easysauce**

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
All your country are belong to us.

Sincerely,

Putin.

lol

the northern arctic shelf might be the next time we hear about mr putin, ukraine is a fast fading memory to most not directly involved at this point.

this reminds me of poland ball

**Iron_Captain**

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
All your country are belong to us.

Sincerely,

Putin.

You do not understand Putin very well. He would never say such a thing.
Ukraine is not a country.

**Ahtman**

Iron_Captain wrote:
He would never say such a thing.

Not out loud probably, and not into microphones ever. He sure thinks it though. He thinks it hard.

Iron_Captain wrote:
Ukraine is not a country.

That is odd, the encyclopedia says it is a country, wiki says it is a country, and the Ukrainians seem to think it is a country. On the other hand some guy on the internet said it isn't so I guess that it isn't.

**George Spiggott**

It is commonly said by Russian nationalists. The idea of 'real' and 'not real' countries is applied liberally to the former satellite states.

That doesn't make it right of course.

**Ketara**

Ahtman wrote:

That is odd, the encyclopedia says it is a country, wiki says it is a country, and the Ukrainians seem to think it is a country. On the other hand some guy on the internet said it isn't so I guess that it isn't.

It was a spot of dry humour made at Putin's expense. I think you got the wrong end of the stick.

**Ahtman**

Ketara wrote:
Ahtman wrote:

That is odd, the encyclopedia says it is a country, wiki says it is a country, and the Ukrainians seem to think it is a country. On the other hand some guy on the internet said it isn't so I guess that it isn't.

It was a spot of dry humour made at Putin's expense. I think you got the wrong end of the stick.

Or Poe's Law in effect. What if they weren't kidding? Where does that leave us?

**BaronIveagh**

Iron_Captain wrote:

Ukraine is not a country.

Neither is the United States, but try and convince them otherwise.

**Ouze**

Ukraine crisis: Russian troops crossed border, Nato says

Nato officials have seen Russian military equipment and Russian combat troops entering Ukraine this week, its top commander says.

"Russian tanks, Russian artillery, Russian air defence systems and Russian combat troops" were sighted, US Gen Philip Breedlove said.

Russia's defence ministry denied that its troops were in eastern Ukraine to help pro-Russian separatists there.

However, the rebels have admitted being helped by "volunteers" from Russia.

Heavy artillery fire rocked the east Ukrainian city of Donetsk, the industrial hub held by pro-Russian separatist rebels, on Wednesday morning.

It was unclear whether the fire came from besieging government forces or the rebels themselves, or both.

There were also reports of fighting near the rebel-held city of Luhansk. One Ukrainian soldier was killed and another injured north of Luhansk, when rebels fired on government positions near the village of Schastya, Ukrainian security forces said.

Events in Ukraine seem to be turning full circle.

Back in August, Nato was warning about the deployment of Russian artillery batteries inside Ukraine, the supply of Russian military equipment to the rebel forces and the build-up of further Russian combat units at the Ukrainian frontier.

Since then many of these units have been withdrawn.

But now with tensions renewed, Nato's Supreme Commander in Europe General Philip Breedlove has confirmed that over the past two days, Nato has seen columns of Russian armour, artillery and crucially - combat troops - entering Ukraine.

The question now is whether this is just a re-run of events in the summer or does a more significant clash beckon, perhaps one where the Kremlin may decide - in its terms - to teach the Ukrainians a military lesson.
General Breedlove also confirmed that Nato believes Russia is deploying nuclear-capable weapons to Crimea - a reference to reports that Russia is deploying short-range Iskander ballistic missiles there that could potentially be equipped with nuclear warheads.

Unmarked convoys

The Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) has reported seeing unmarked convoys in the region in recent days.

Gen Breedlove, talking to reporters on a visit to Bulgaria, was asked about the purpose of the alleged Russian troop deployment.

He replied: "As to their intent, I'm not sure. My strategic team believes that there is a possibility that, as you know, this pocket of separatist Russian-backed forces and Russian forces in the east of Ukraine - it's not a very contiguous pocket. There are lines of communications that are
interrupted. There are airports that are not held by the Russian-backed forces etc.

"And so it is our first guess that these forces will go in to make this a more contiguous, more whole and capable pocket of land in order to then hold on to it long term."

But Russian defence official Maj-Gen Igor Konashenkov said "there was and is no evidence" to support Gen Breedlove's claims.

Russia has consistently denied sending troops and equipment to support the rebels fighting in eastern Ukraine.

More than 4,000 people have died since government forces moved in April to put down an armed insurrection by the rebels in the two regions, which border Russia.

A fragile ceasefire was agreed in Minsk on 5 September, although hundreds of people have been killed since then.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel said on Tuesday her government was "not satisfied" with the progress in implementing the Minsk agreement, but added that there were no plans at present for further economic sanctions against Russia over its involvement in Ukraine.

"Further economic sanctions are not planned at the moment, we are focusing on the winter and the humanitarian situation there and how to get a real ceasefire," she said.

The OSCE said earlier that the conflict could get worse.

"The level of violence in eastern Ukraine and the risk of further escalation remain high and are rising," OSCE representative Michael Bociurkiw told reporters in Kiev.

**whembly**

So... you're saying that Romney was right?

**Ouze**

Man, you really, truly can't help yourself, can you?

**Co'tor Shas**

Just this line:
"Yet, instead of accepting this self-evident fact today after Russia has annexed the territory of another European state, Obama cannot admit to getting it wrong. "

I'm really confused, how has he not shown that he now views Russia as a threat?

**whembly**

Ouze wrote:
Man, you really, truly can't help yourself, can you?

Nope.

To be honest, it's not directed at you. So if it feels like I'm waving my schadenboner right in your face... much apologies.

But, c'mon man... you'd have to admit he was right.

**Co'tor Shas**

I prefer to say Regan was right.

**BaronIveagh**

Go for the Full Monty:

Eisenhower was Right.

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

BaronIveagh wrote:
Go for the Full Monty:

Eisenhower was Right.

I see your Eisenhower and raise you a Churchill.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Unthinkable

**Sining**

The EU is apparently useless

**PhantomViper**

Sining wrote:
The EU is apparently useless

What does the EU have to do with anything that goes on out of its borders?

This is a problem for those countries that signed defence agreements with the Ukraine and now aren't following through on them or at most its NATO's problem (which it also really isn't because the Ukraine isn't a part of NATO).

**Frazzled**

whembly wrote:
So... you're saying that Romney was right?

Well, time for thie Texan to get on the winning team. Go Mother Russia! We'll have alandebridge to Crimea before December! For Russia! For Putin!

Automatically Appended Next Post:

PhantomViper wrote:
Sining wrote:
The EU is apparently useless

What does the EU have to do with anything that goes on out of its borders?

This is a problem for those countries that signed defence agreements with the Ukraine and now aren't following through on them or at most its NATO's problem (which it also really isn't because the Ukraine isn't a part of NATO).

Ukraine is not part of NATO. Even if it was, for all intents and purposes NATO is dead.

**PhantomViper**

Yeah, that is what I said in the last part of my reply.

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

Apparently Russia is claiming a Ukrainian air jet shot down MH17, and have produced satellite images.

Russian media releases satellite image claiming to show MH17 shot down by Ukrainian fighter jet

HOURS before the G20 summit is due to start in Brisbane, Russia’s official media has released satellite images which it claims shows the Malaysia Airline’s flight MH17 was shot down by a Ukrainian fighter jet, not a surface-to-air missile.

The flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur was brought down over the war zone in eastern Ukraine on July 17, killing all 298 people on board including 38 Australian residents and citizens.

Russian media picture ... the image appears to show a fighter jet shooting a missile in t

Russian media picture ... the image appears to show a fighter jet shooting a missile in the direction of a passenger jet. Picture: LiveLeak

Russian President Vladimir Putin has been under increasing pressure to apologise for the tragedy after initial investigations indicated it was a Russian made BUK missile system used by pro-Moscow rebels that was responsible.

In what only could be described as an extraordinary coincidence after Mr Putin was confronted by Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott in Beijing this week, Russia’s state broadcaster aired the images supplied by unnamed sources.

The presenter said they showed how a Mig-29 fighter plane destroyed the Boeing 777 passenger plane.

A Dutch Safety Board preliminary report on the MH17 disaster found the aircraft crashed after being punctured by “high energy objects ... that originated from outside the fuselage”.

The report made no finding on whether the “high energy objects” originated from a surface-to-air missile or some other weapon.

In the spotlight ... Russian President Vladimir Putin arrives in Brisbane to take part in

In the spotlight ... Russian President Vladimir Putin arrives in Brisbane to take part in the G20 summit. Picture: AFP PHOTO / Peter Parks

Mr Abbott’s hard line on the suspected Russian involvement in the tragedy has not gone down well with grieving families.

Paul Guard, who lost his parents Roger and Jill Guard when the aircraft was brought down, told the ABC yesterday he would prefer the Prime Minister worked with Mr Putin in order to ensure complete transparency in the investigation process.

Member countries of the joint investigation team announced this week an extension to the official investigation for another nine months until August 15.

Investigators have had difficulty accessing the crash site because of ongoing fighting between the Ukrainians, and pro-Russian separatists.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/russian-media-releases-satellite-image-claiming-to-show-mh17-shot-down-by-ukrainian-fighter-jet/story-fniztvnh-1227123846130?nk=74faf5164d9d54e5548f6976e57edc77

**Co'tor Shas**

I'll wait until we have confirmation from an agency or new-source before I believe that. I'm sure as hell not trusting Russia.

**Frazzled**

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/russian-media-releases-satellite-image-claiming-to-show-mh17-shot-down-by-ukrainian-fighter-jet/story-fniztvnh-1227123846130?nk=74faf5164d9d54e5548f6976e57edc77

"And here we see the string holding the fighter up er...contrail Da contrail of the missile..."

**Wyrmalla**

If it were that clean cut, and Russia had an image which showed it was at least a jet which shot the thing down and not a surface to air missile, why'd they wait till now to show it? Wouldn't it have been a good time to reveal this whilst everyone was pointing the finger at that missile array the Russians were hastily pulling back to their side of the border? Given the bullgak that's been coming out of Russia since this thing started there's no way in hell I'd be trusting anything the Kremlin came out with. Can we have a proper analyst's view of that image? I'm meaning beyond just saying its a piece of photo manipulation. Rather judging whether that's a realistic distance for a jet to be firing on its target from, the angle of the impact, etc. If this is true then its only going to increase the distrust the West has with Russia given they've held onto this knowledge for who knows how long, not giving over critical information to investigation. If its a fake then that's strengthening the view that the Russian government is full of snakes (woo, bias). In any case you can bet they've spent months planning out how to twist the whole situation to their advantage, and no matter what the Russians own sources tell them, got to blame those Ukrainian Nationalists for everything horrible that goes on in that war.

**Grey Templar**

I'm a little skeptical of that image. For one, the fighter seems to be at a perfect 45 degree angle with the overall image.