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 Wyrmalla wrote:


I guess someone's never watched talk show exerts on Youtube where politicians literally leap over the table each other and slap their opponent about with a shoe? Hmn, does the Ukrainian parliament do that thing the British one does where every start's saying "haw haw haw" loudly when they disagree with the speaker? Frankly if the politicians here quit acting like children and started nutting each other they might actually get a bit more respect. =P

Find a parliament where people aren't acting like asshats. Its a biased opinion which makes you think that the Ukrainian one is any worse than others, though like I've said the bar is set rather low.

Do the German parliament act like asshats? I saw a politician on tv about a year ago and he seemed to be making reasonable comments and actually be concerned with solving the problem he was talking about. It kind of blew my mind, I mean politicians trying to fix things instead of making political capital, that's just crazy.

ANd Iron_captain I appreciate the dry wit.

 Wyrmalla wrote:
Let me link you to the Wikipedia page defining political corruption as you seem to not be aware of just what it is. You may need to turn down the State Anthem a bit in order to focus on it fully. =P

Spoiler:

I tried to read the page you linked, but as soon as I turn down volume on State Anthem, the FSB burst into the roam and started playing patriotic music very loudly. They also plastered my screen with motivational posters and Pravda articles that say there be of no corruptions in Russia. The FSB then proceeded to paint a large, motivational slogan on my wall that says "No corruption in Russia!", so that means it is true. There is no corruption in Russia. Corruption is decadent invention of liberast West that does not affect glorious Russian peoples. Glory to the Motherland! Glory to Putin! Glory to the FSB!

When Iron Captain's being facetious he kind of sounds the same as when he's not.....so it's hard to tell...

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
When Iron Captain's being facetious he kind of sounds the same as when he's not.....so it's hard to tell...

This.

However, i must disagree, after all, if there was no corruption, what could we charge Putin's rivals with? Homosexuality?

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
When Iron Captain's being facetious he kind of sounds the same as when he's not.....so it's hard to tell...

This.

However, i must disagree, after all, if there was no corruption, what could we charge Putin's rivals with? Homosexuality?

Haven't you heard? Homosexuality is corruption in Russia, just of minds rather than policies.

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
When Iron Captain's being facetious he kind of sounds the same as when he's not.....so it's hard to tell...

I have the same thing with you guys...

There has been some action going on in Mariupol lately.
There has been a rocket strike that killed 30 people, Ukrainian government says rebels did it, rebels say it was government false flag operation. The government also claims the rebels want to launch an offensive on Mariupol, but the rebels deny that:


http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/10-reported-killed-rocket-fire-mariupol-ukraine-28447614
http://rt.com/news/225955-mariupol-ukraine-shelling-kiev/

 Iron_Captain wrote:

There has been some action going on in Mariupol lately.
There has been a rocket strike that killed 30 people, Ukrainian government says rebels did it, rebels say it was government false flag operation. The government also claims the rebels want to launch an offensive on Mariupol, but the rebels deny that:]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30967949

In other news, the rebel mayor of Pervomaysk, one Yevhen Ischchenko, was gunned down in fighting between rival rebel groups.


They're also denying they're on an offensive in the region, despite Alexander Zakharchenko calling it 'the best possible monument to all our dead".

So ive been out of the loop on this...is Russia leaving Ukraine, or are they sticking around?

 Supertony51 wrote:
So ive been out of the loop on this...is Russia leaving Ukraine, or are they sticking around?

Some pals beyond the Putin Curtain provide a handy identification list for you to spot the Russian units involved. Play along at home, kids!

https://informnapalm.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/tactical-marking-ENGLISH-updated-13.01.15.pdf

 Supertony51 wrote:
So ive been out of the loop on this...is Russia leaving Ukraine, or are they sticking around?

Russia leaving Ukraine?
Now that would be a really strange world... Russia will never leave Ukraine, it would be impossible.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Supertony51 wrote:
So ive been out of the loop on this...is Russia leaving Ukraine, or are they sticking around?

Russia leaving Ukraine?
Now that would be a really strange world... Russia will never leave Ukraine, it would be impossible.

Hope they like their new neighbors

 loki old fart wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Supertony51 wrote:
So ive been out of the loop on this...is Russia leaving Ukraine, or are they sticking around?

Russia leaving Ukraine?
Now that would be a really strange world... Russia will never leave Ukraine, it would be impossible.

Hope they like their new neighbors

While the presence of American volunteers in Ukraine has already been proven, that video does not really prove anything. It is just a bit of footage of a guy in a vaguely Western-looking uniform who speaks English.
He does not have to be a mercenary.

I know there was an earlier US volunteer there, that has since been killed. http://gawker.com/middle-aged-american-volunteer-dies-fighting-pro-russia-1627000066

They seem to be relatively far and few between however if there are any others over there, and certainly nothing like the indications of actual Russian troops that have been seen (e.g. the guys with Russian pattern fatigues with Russian Marine insignia on their arms as shown in the ruins of the Donetsk airport shot by Rossiya Odin).

The Donetsk guys make it increasingly difficult to be sympathetic, publicly parading, abusing, and beating prisoners and graphically displaying dead Ukrainian troops on a playground in a recent video (I won't link it for now since it's extremely graphic, but it's on Reddit's WTF board currently).

 Vaktathi wrote:
I know there was an earlier US volunteer there, that has since been killed. http://gawker.com/middle-aged-american-volunteer-dies-fighting-pro-russia-1627000066

They seem to be relatively far and few between however if there are any others over there, and certainly nothing like the indications of actual Russian troops that have been seen (e.g. the guys with Russian pattern fatigues with Russian Marine insignia on their arms as shown in the ruins of the Donetsk airport shot by Rossiya Odin).

The Donetsk guys make it increasingly difficult to be sympathetic, publicly parading, abusing, and beating prisoners and graphically displaying dead Ukrainian troops on a playground in a recent video (I won't link it for now since it's extremely graphic, but it's on Reddit's WTF board currently).

As if the Ukrainian government does not commit any warcrimes. The Ukrainian Army also makes it difficult to be sympathetic, bombing densely populated cities and blowing up schools with artillery. You can find pictures and videos of street full of dead civilians killed in Ukrainian bombing runs/artillery strikes. And that is before mentioning torture of prisoners, dissapearance of pro-Russian journalists and opposition politicians, the massacre of protesters in Odessa etc. But the US media probably chooses not to report on those things.
Also, guys in Russian uniform doesn't mean Russian army is involved. You can just buy those uniforms on the internet if you'd like. If actual Russian soldiers are involved, they would probably not be so stupid to go running around in their official uniforms and insignia.

I would posit there is a difference between collateral damage, and intentionally abusing prisoners and allowing members of the public to attack them and videotaping it. Besides, it's not like the Russians and the seperatists aren't also bombing densely populated areas on their own, as in Mariupol at this very moment.

Also, lets not get into US media. I don't watch US media because its mostly garbage (though it's also not owned and operated by the state as in Russia), hell I don't even have cable. Everything I've mentioned has come from videos aired on actual Russian TV, or uploaded by the parties themselves or independent organizations (such as the VICE video in the gawker link above).

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
I know there was an earlier US volunteer there, that has since been killed. http://gawker.com/middle-aged-american-volunteer-dies-fighting-pro-russia-1627000066

They seem to be relatively far and few between however if there are any others over there, and certainly nothing like the indications of actual Russian troops that have been seen (e.g. the guys with Russian pattern fatigues with Russian Marine insignia on their arms as shown in the ruins of the Donetsk airport shot by Rossiya Odin).

The Donetsk guys make it increasingly difficult to be sympathetic, publicly parading, abusing, and beating prisoners and graphically displaying dead Ukrainian troops on a playground in a recent video (I won't link it for now since it's extremely graphic, but it's on Reddit's WTF board currently).

As if the Ukrainian government does not commit any warcrimes. The Ukrainian Army also makes it difficult to be sympathetic, bombing densely populated cities and blowing up schools with artillery. You can find pictures and videos of street full of dead civilians killed in Ukrainian bombing runs/artillery strikes. And that is before mentioning torture of prisoners, dissapearance of pro-Russian journalists and opposition politicians, the massacre of protesters in Odessa etc. But the US media probably chooses not to report on those things.
Also, guys in Russian uniform doesn't mean Russian army is involved. You can just buy those uniforms on the internet if you'd like. If actual Russian soldiers are involved, they would probably not be so stupid to go running around in their official uniforms and insignia.

In regards to the media, it's not so much that they don't report it out of some pro-US thing, but that they only report what Americans find interesting. Cable new at the very least. I have heard about some of this stuff on NPR though. They aren't really as bound to the wants of their veiwers.

 loki old fart wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Supertony51 wrote:
So ive been out of the loop on this...is Russia leaving Ukraine, or are they sticking around?

Russia leaving Ukraine?
Now that would be a really strange world... Russia will never leave Ukraine, it would be impossible.

Hope they like their new neighbors

He sounds Brit or Aussie. Still, Russian "mercs" and "volunteers" have been found in Ukraine along with supplied equipment and vehicles.

I wish we could do more for the Ukrainians besides slap more sanctions on the Russian state, whose upper echelons have been lying through their teeth for the past eight or so months -- and who have been prolonging this conflict.

Like what exactly? Declare war on Russia?

There's not much to be done really.

Russia will eventually have the Ukraine back. Once that's done they'll start destabilising Kazakhstan then they'll go rescue them. Repeat till Putin dies of old age.

 obsidianaura wrote:
There's not much to be done really.

Russia will eventually have the Ukraine back. Once that's done they'll start destabilising Kazakhstan then they'll go rescue them. Repeat till Putin dies of old age.

No need for Russia to destabilise Kazakhstan. They are smart enough not to make Putin mad, especially after he is done with Ukraine. Besides, why bother with them? There is nothing there, and they are really friendly with Russia anyways. Much more value to be had from destabilising Armenia/Azerbaidzhan

Putin recently started questioning the legitimacy of Kazakhstan being a post-soviet state. Plus a lot of ethnic Russians there.

Maybe it wont be the first thing he does but if Kazakhstan keeps seeking closer ties with "the west" it may change.

If the oil prices don't start rising again soon, Putin won't have enough money left to conquer a game of Risk, let alone the rest of the Ukraine.

He is finished, all that he has left is bluster so he will keep that up for a few more months, but I highly doubt that he will last to the end of the year.

 obsidianaura wrote:
Putin recently started questioning the legitimacy of Kazakhstan being a post-soviet state. Plus a lot of ethnic Russians there.

Maybe it wont be the first thing he does but if Kazakhstan keeps seeking closer ties with "the west" it may change.

Someone's been reading a particular piece of speculative fiction...



Love that series. ^^

Based on that novel it'd be a raw deal for the electronics industry if Kazakhstan went under given the natural resources available, even if they're sitting idle at the moment (some of the mines are just guys digging holes randomly in the ground with spades). The Russians would exploit the mining industry to hell if they owned that place, though there's already plenty of foreign investors as it is.

Hmn, my wargaming tastes seem to be erring closer to this conflict it would seem. Beyond the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. stuff I think I'm now delving into making models based on this conflict directly for some modern conflict games. Naturally, primarily to avoid offence, the scenarios involving the Little Green Men will have them invading a country known as Uchechistan of course. Eugh, its just a damm shame how difficult it is to find modern Russian and Eastern European miniatures (I'm fine with the infantry mostly as I can make them myself or Empress do them, but I'm holding out on someone making a bloody Gaz Tigr model).

Nah, I know what this is going to turn into.

Someone needs to read the Germline series ...though I couldn't say things are going too fine for the rest of the world beyond Russia either (want to know what happens when a war with Russia happens, well there's that novel ...ah, if in a couple of decades we happen to have flechette guns and we've strip mind the planet into nothing ...So youknow 50/50 on that happening).

Hey I'd be fine if the Russians got off their butts, nuked Chernobyl and gave us this.

Wyrmalla wrote:
Hmn, my wargaming tastes seem to be erring closer to this conflict it would seem. Beyond the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. stuff I think I'm now delving into making models based on this conflict directly for some modern conflict games. Naturally, primarily to avoid offence, the scenarios involving the Little Green Men will have them invading a country known as Uchechistan of course. Eugh, its just a damm shame how difficult it is to find modern Russian and Eastern European miniatures (I'm fine with the infantry mostly as I can make them myself or Empress do them, but I'm holding out on someone making a bloody Gaz Tigr model).

I don't know what scale you are looking into, but Zvezda makes a lot of modern Russians in 1/35 scale. There is even a Gaz-2330 Tigr model around in that scale. There is also plenty of modern Russians in 28mm, but no Tigr.

Co'tor Shas wrote:Nah, I know what this is going to turn into.

I am just playing through that game again. It never loses its epicness.

The redux version is even better.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

Wyrmalla wrote:
Hmn, my wargaming tastes seem to be erring closer to this conflict it would seem. Beyond the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. stuff I think I'm now delving into making models based on this conflict directly for some modern conflict games. Naturally, primarily to avoid offence, the scenarios involving the Little Green Men will have them invading a country known as Uchechistan of course. Eugh, its just a damm shame how difficult it is to find modern Russian and Eastern European miniatures (I'm fine with the infantry mostly as I can make them myself or Empress do them, but I'm holding out on someone making a bloody Gaz Tigr model).

I don't know what scale you are looking into, but Zvezda makes a lot of modern Russians in 1/35 scale. There is even a Gaz-2330 Tigr model around in that scale. There is also plenty of modern Russians in 28mm, but no Tigr.

Oh hell don't talk to me about 1/35th scale. You can find anything in that. Jump over to 1/48th and you're scraping the barrel. As far as modern miniatures go the US seems to be covered half decently, but if its not a tank you're stuck a lot of the time for the other countries. Well at least Russia is covered due to Cold War models, but there's nout in regards to the newer equipment, which yes is all right most of the time as a lot of countries as still using the gear that they were twenty years ago, but it would be nice to have modern workhorses like the Tigr (which oddly enough I can find the civilian version of, but not the military). Ack, I'll probably have to do with a tank and an APC, but if I want any of the support vehicles like trucks I'm screwed (1/48th Urals go for £50+). Empress Miniatures have just released modern Russian miniatures in 28mm (with more specialised stuff to come, even if Spetnaz for the most part have the same kit as the regulars), and they also sell Chechen war Russians as well. As far as vehicles go there's a decent range of armoured vehicles in the £20-30 range in resin (which I hate spending on a single model unless its something interesting like a crashed Hind or Aral Sea ship), though Kitech also do some tanks in plastic as well. ...But yeah certainly it doesn't seem like there's nearly as much interest in Russian models are there is the US. I'm just lucky I'm not starting PLA (Empress do some which I've been eyeing up for S.T.A.L.K.E.R. a bit as they turn up in the sequel ...because yeah when something like the zone happens its not just NATO and Russia that want a finger in it).

As for the Ukrainians and pro-Russians that aren't using Russian gear, well they're well covered. Want an armoured transport vehicle? Just find a diecast UAZ Van and stick on some armour (albeit such vehicles aren't actually that common, but I managed to get my hands on loads of diecast Soviet civilian vehicles a while back). Hopefully I'll be picking up a Humvee next week and turning it into one of those ones with the enclosed rear compartment the Ukrainians have been using. (which I'm sort of wondering how the Ukrainians got their hands on. They road regular Humvees in Afghanistan so maybe they transported those back and altered them for the climate. Alternatively they were picked up on the cheap from somewhere, though who has a couple of Humvees to spare?).

Ack, but yeah, anyway that'll all wind up finding a use for the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. and other settings if they're not doing for modern games (not necessarily war in Ukraine stuff, the guys I know have the UK and US IIRC). The kit that's been used in this war naturally would do for the fictional Stalker setting, particularly the mix of high tech and ad-hoc gear. The reverse would be true to an extent, ah, just not the exo-skeletons and magical artifact carrying models so much. =P

Ah, hmn, this talking about miniatures based on the war in Ukraine isn't OT is it?

 Wyrmalla wrote:

Oh hell don't talk to me about 1/35th scale. You can find anything in that. Jump over to 1/48th and you're scraping the barrel. As far as modern miniatures go the US seems to be covered half decently, but if its not a tank you're stuck a lot of the time for the other countries. Well at least Russia is covered due to Cold War models, but there's nout in regards to the newer equipment, which yes is all right most of the time as a lot of countries as still using the gear that they were twenty years ago, but it would be nice to have modern workhorses like the Tigr (which oddly enough I can find the civilian version of, but not the military). Ack, I'll probably have to do with a tank and an APC, but if I want any of the support vehicles like trucks I'm screwed (1/48th Urals go for £50+). Empress Miniatures have just released modern Russian miniatures in 28mm (with more specialised stuff to come, even if Spetnaz for the most part have the same kit as the regulars), and they also sell Chechen war Russians as well. As far as vehicles go there's a decent range of armoured vehicles in the £20-30 range in resin (which I hate spending on a single model unless its something interesting like a crashed Hind or Aral Sea ship), though Kitech also do some tanks in plastic as well. ...But yeah certainly it doesn't seem like there's nearly as much interest in Russian models are there is the US. I'm just lucky I'm not starting PLA (Empress do some which I've been eyeing up for S.T.A.L.K.E.R. a bit as they turn up in the sequel ...because yeah when something like the zone happens its not just NATO and Russia that want a finger in it).

Yeah... I don't get why military vehicles are generally 1/35 scale, racing cars/street cars are 1/24 scale, F-1 cars are generally 1/20 scale, and model aircraft are equally in either 1/48 or 1/72 scale..... Don't those people realize that I want to make a Diorama of an M-1 Abrams driving over a Mitsubishi Eclipse, but can't due to scale issues!?

Things might not be going too well in the Ukraine.

Leaked document. Image from http://www.cyber-berkut.org/
SEE THE TRANSLATION BELOW]

“Order by the first deputy head of the Anti-Terrorist center of the Ukraine's Security Service (SBU)

on anti-terrorist operation

Relating to orders by Defense Ministry, General Staff of Ukrainian Defense Forces and Head of anti-terrorist center of the Ukrainian Security Service to restrict from 26 Jan 2015 the presentation of data on real losses in the area of anti-terrorist operation.

Order:

1. Commanders of the military units shall present reports only to the anti-terrorist center

2. Deputy head of the Anti-Terrorist HQ shall instruct via Military Medical Department of the Ukrainian Defense Ministry head of the Dnepropetrovsk Military Hospital, Southern Military Medical Center (Odessa) and Northern Military Medical Center (Kharkov) to stop until further notice make reports through official channels on real losses in the area of anti-terrorist operation.”

The documents the hacktivists claim they have obtained paint a grim picture of the Ukrainian warfare: discipline of the troops is undermined, troops are running out of reserves, mobilization is stalled as army draftees are escaping the country, mostly running to Russia and other neighboring states.

With the lack of the hardened troops, Ukrainian military leaders order recruits into meaningless attacks on multi-layered defenses of the separatists, which results in havoc and vast casualties.

The Ukrainian military have even employed barrier troops who fired at their fellow servicemen in order to prevent their retreat, as could be learnt from the documents.