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 Howard A Treesong wrote:
I'm getting fed up of reading that anti-Russian attitudes are due to 'nazi propaganda', especially coming from people not even born until after the collapse of the Soviet Union so have a world view based on what is spooned to them by the Russian state in what passes for education and media. It would be nice to have a serious thread about Ukraine without crackpot claims about the CIA controlling the world with only Russia bravely standing up to them.

Went to the Stazi museum in Berlin yesterday and it was quite shocking the scale of the spying and nasty methods used to keep the population in line. Clearly the form of governing the Soviet Union approved of and consequently no wonder that returning under control by Russia is not popular with many Eastern European countries.

That is the world of propaganda for ya

There's no cop like the one in your own head.

"Who controls the past controls the future; who controls the present controls the past." - George Orwell, 1984.

BaronIveagh wrote:
Trying from photobucket.

Looks like russian T-72B3 with some parts missing. But rough white lines? it means, it used by ukraine army. Strange. If we find serial number, we can track down where this tank came from.

It's a double reference to the decidedly lethal game "Russian Roulette", where one never knows the consequences of a trigger pull, and the fact that there's Russians involved (even if they're not Russian troops, the DNR rebels and the like all claim to be Russsian).

Yes, I know that game. It was popular during revolution and civil war amongst officers, who can't decide to suicide or to live.
If there's a such name, author think it is Russia responsible for Ukraine chaos? No, it's all ukrainian Yanukovich, euromaidan, Poroshenko, oligarchs, UPA, Bandera and whatever

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
Went to the Stazi museum in Berlin yesterday and it was quite shocking the scale of the spying and nasty methods used to keep the population in line. Clearly the form of governing the Soviet Union approved of and consequently no wonder that returning under control by Russia is not popular with many Eastern European countries.

Probably, there will be CIA museum in the future. Where our descendants will see how CIA controlled world

Okay either this guy is serious and I now feel extremely bad for the average russian, or he is spreading misinformation for pay from a certain eastern European government.

 Ustrello wrote:
Okay either this guy is serious and I now feel extremely bad for the average russian, or he is spreading misinformation for pay from a certain eastern European government.

Regardless I reported him for trolling because I personally believe he is doing it to be a troll.

 Ustrello wrote:
Okay either this guy is serious and I now feel extremely bad for the average russian, or he is spreading misinformation for pay from a certain eastern European government.

I'm just spitballing here, maybe he's a CIA agent trying to convince the rest of us the CIA isn't as stupid as they seem to be!

Also;



Also as an example of just how bad the CIA is at being the CIA (which I found while looking for the above picture);

I found some info about that tank.

There was 3 videos on youtube about this tank, made by Ukraine. But all deleted now. KGB work?

It was "found" by Ukrainian army in august 2014.

at the moment they "found" it, tank already was marked with white lines

It means, tank was aready used by ukraine army


Turret number says it was made in 1989 on "Stankomash" factory, Chelyabinsk, USSR/Russia


This number says, turrent was installed on body in 1989 in Uralvagonzavod

Tank looks like modernised T-72B3. But during modernization, they put marking near the serial number. I don't see any.

As "prof" they used some blank card

It's half empty. No dates, no signs, no stamps, no brigade number, no military unit number.

Is it possible, that Ukraine made fake "russian" tank?

For example in Kiev armour factory.

tank was captured by DNR in september 2014.

 Freakazoitt wrote:

Is it possible, that Ukraine made fake "russian" tank?

If they have, they're making a lot of them, here's three more.



I think it's easier to explain this by saying they're Russian tanks that have had their insignias removed or overpainted.

If you look through this thread myself and others have posted before and after images of Russian tanks with and without their insignia. "Oh those aren't the same tanks, see the paintjobs different". ...Yes, yes it is, that's the point. The stowage, wear and uh... crew are the same however.

Posters like that are trolls, but I think people's stance on them is that they're offering a rather curious look on the perspective of "the other side" as it were. As batgak crazy as it is of course.

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 Freakazoitt wrote:

Is it possible, that Ukraine made fake "russian" tank?

If they have, they're making a lot of them, here's three more.



I think it's easier to explain this by saying they're Russian tanks that have had their insignias removed or overpainted.

Oh, Grisha. What are you doing on this tank?

It looks like T-72B3 too. All the same? Sosna tageter, wind detector, Contact-5 armour. But It also might be ukrainian T-72UMG. Or something between them,
Or maybe, it's repaired T-72, captured from ukraine army, using stolen from Rusia upgrade kits.

Which leads to the question: what is the Russian army doing letting so much materiel get "stolen" in the first place?

Heh, que an investigation into corruption in the Russian army and how so many active service men are allowed to just up and leave with millions of top of the line gear. ...Or not, because said investigation would be funded by the Russian government, which is as corrupt, if not more so, than the military.

Yes though, I do question how the people how actually believe this bull are fine with all that state paid for equipment and men just upping and leaving. Then again, I guess they're so used to so much of their money going off into politicians pockets as it is.

Countries that I would hate to live in number #15...

Is it just me, or does that guy look like Nicholas Cage?

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Is it just me, or does that guy look like Nicholas Cage?

Obviously this just means that Nicholas Cage works for the CIA in their dastardly plans to frame Russia for starting a civil war in their country and then invading their country when the civil war didn't go how Russia wanted

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Which leads to the question: what is the Russian army doing letting so much materiel get "stolen" in the first place?

Restructuring.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Which leads to the question: what is the Russian army doing letting so much materiel get "stolen" in the first place?

The better question is how much someone can expect to be paid for doing all this kind of "creative truth interpretation"...

Honestly, the lies are more for the Western Europeans benefit than for Russia, that way their governments have an excuse to do nothing about Ukraine.

This crewman guy on tank is british. No joking.

upd. It appears he's on truck and moving another direction. But still, he's a british (Graham Phillips aka Grisha).

 Freakazoitt wrote:

Oh, Grisha. What are you doing on this tank?

It looks like T-72B3 too. All the same? Sosna tageter, wind detector, Contact-5 armour. But It also might be ukrainian T-72UMG. Or something between them,
Or maybe, it's repaired T-72, captured from ukraine army, using stolen from Rusia upgrade kits.

Yeah, just like in the old days they put the whole tank factory on their backs and carried it back from Russia without getting caught.

These are most likely Russian, possibly 4th or 5th armored, since those crazy Buryats tweeted and facebooked and youtubed their way from Ulan-Ude to Donetsk..

That "base" the drone was recording.
Seems to be a FARP, Bivouac, rest tents, etc etc
Basically a rest and refit site. Saw the six Jersey Barriers they have
Also the reflector are straight lined. Separating armor vehicles from the walking space.. Dress right dress sort of thing.
That towed artillery piece was not deployed into combat configuration. Seem its Prime mover was over at the maintenance tent.

I've a feeling the one parked in the herring bone in prepared positions are ammo carriers.

My Pathfinder side of myself notice the length and width of the straight clearings.
I see enough spaces for at least eight HIPS to land on one section
The other seems to be the same but throw in Hinds to.
Under NOD's IR lights on you can see the guiding lines for aircraft's to move.

I don't think, what they did is legal. Going into other country without order of the high command is impossible. They most likely left from service and went illegally. Participation in any war as the mercenary is a crime in Russia.

 Freakazoitt wrote:
I don't think, what they did is legal. Going into other country without order of the high command is impossible. They most likely left from service and went illegally. Participation in any war as the mercenary is a crime in Russia.

According to one Dorzhi Batomunkuyev, who was interviewed by the Russian press while recovering from burns received when his tank was knocked out (there are pictures of the poor guy, but you'll want to Google them, mods won't let us show that sort of thing), they had orders to cross into the Ukraine. It's been verified that he is/was part of the 5th Tank Brigade of the 36th Army of the Eastern Military Command, military unit 46108 (Ulan-Ude).

He was. But dismissed and went there by his own will. When I first heard about that, there were SO many ukrainian fake, so I didn't even interested in. So many photoshoped pictures, photos from Georgia, Chechnya, Serbia and even Syria, so many insulting and absurd texts on official ukrainian news.
I don't understeand, how few tanks or crew can help DNR. Is it worth to make international scandal?
Still, it's not an "invasion".

Went on his own will. With his tank.

Were the fuelers and ammo haulers that supported his tanks movement to the Ukraine and combat in the Ukraine also crewed by folks who deserted? How about the maintenance assets? How about the comms networks set up for them? Were those established by deserters as well?

Amazing your country can't stop some troop from not only stealing his tank but from traveling all the way to the Ukraine along with the combat support and combat service support required to get there and then fight once there.

Simply amazing.

Yeah sloppiness... where is the Stalin to bring order

 Freakazoitt wrote:
He was. But dismissed and went there by his own will. When I first heard about that, there were SO many ukrainian fake, so I didn't even interested in. So many photoshoped pictures, photos from Georgia, Chechnya, Serbia and even Syria, so many insulting and absurd texts on official ukrainian news.
I don't understeand, how few tanks or crew can help DNR. Is it worth to make international scandal?
Still, it's not an "invasion".

Actually? It IS an "invasion" when those tank crews are saying that they were ordered to go.

You understand, in any case, that you are not the hero in this thread right? You're not "exposing" anything to Westerners who have been lied to or any of the nonsensical ranting you've engaged in.

You are the villain here. An apologist for a government that has a history of engaging in exactly the kinds of activities which you laid at the feet of the Western nations that you claimed are "bullying" the poor Russian government.

More like an Incursion or Foray

 Kanluwen wrote:
Actually? It IS an "invasion" when those tank crews are saying that they were ordered to go.

You understand, in any case, that you are not the hero in this thread right? You're not "exposing" anything to Westerners who have been lied to or any of the nonsensical ranting you've engaged in.

You are the villain here. An apologist for a government that has a history of engaging in exactly the kinds of activities which you laid at the feet of the Western nations that you claimed are "bullying" the poor Russian government.

Oh, so you an american lawbringer, who decide who is evil and should be punished?
Point at some country and saying "they are evil! they are orcs! we shoud make humanitarian bombing on them to purify by fire and turn them into democracy".
You feel yourself a sacred inquisitor, or maybe even God?
I won't speak now about war crimes which committed the USA. but don't forget: Do not judge, or you too will be judged.
Both of us are ordinary citizens who can be not agree with the our governments, but both of us aren't interested in actions against the our countries.
please, no gloating

 CptJake wrote:
Went on his own will. With his tank.

Were the fuelers and ammo haulers that supported his tanks movement to the Ukraine and combat in the Ukraine also crewed by folks who deserted? How about the maintenance assets? How about the comms networks set up for them? Were those established by deserters as well?

Amazing your country can't stop some troop from not only stealing his tank but from traveling all the way to the Ukraine along with the combat support and combat service support required to get there and then fight once there.

Simply amazing.

The refusal to see this is astounding.

If you are so sure that there the Russian troops are at war, go to Donetsk. Not to Kiev, where they will feed you with lie.
you will see that there civilians dying
That humanitarian escorts - the only source of food and medicine there.
not matters, sent from the west of Ukraine or from Russia.
and the militia with volunteers exist there for chasteners didn't kill people whom they hate
and of course, you won't find the Russian troops there