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 Grey Templar wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
The problem is that there are military planes that look like airliners.

Military planes don't fly in steady straight lines.

The BUK launcher even has IFF warnings to prevent this happening. The Russians must not have trained the rebels in how to use it properly.

Well, they believed it was a military plane.

They were probably just told to shoot anything moving that isn't explicitly on their side.

 Tyran wrote:
Well, they believed it was a military plane.

And my daughter believes in Santa Claus.

Neither has any bearing on the fact they shot it down and then tried to cover it up/deny it. Or the fact that it clearly was NOT flying a military profile or squawking anything but civilian codes.

 Tyran wrote:
The problem is that there are military planes that look like airliners.

They have IFF transponders however that anti-aircraft units (at least those utilizing missile batteries) should be able to detect and identify. Someone fethed up basically. Both the US and Soviet Union accidentally shot down airliners in the 80's (an Iranian one in the case of the former, South Korean in the latter) that would not have occurred if proper IFF identification had been followed.

I'm guessing that, if it was a land based missile battery operated by, or in support of, the Separatists, the crew are only ever going to be found by someone with a shovel.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
A "division", as it's commonly understood to most of us, is typically 10-20 thousand troops, the Russian army has far more than 5-6 "divisions" in this sense,the modern Russian army is typically described as being roughly 23-30 divisions in strength, though since 2010 they're organized into 43-48 "Brigade" sized groups from what I understand, organized into a total of 11 "Armies" each composed of 3-4 of the new "brigade" sized forces, spread over 4 military districts.

It can get confusing though because they mix them up into tactical battalions these days. So, the above white square might signify that particular battalion.

Indeed, and modern armies seem to, in general, be moving away from "divisional" sized elements, with Russian and NATO armies all fielding lots of brigade and regimental sized independent formations and fewer things running in "divisional" sized elements.

Most was broken down into brigades, but the Russian army still has 6 active divisions. The Taman and Kantemir divisions have even been reactivated again to restore the 1st Tank Army.

Yeah I heard about the reactivation of the 1st tank army, but I don't think the general public has too much information on their composition and deployment

 Grey Templar wrote:
They were probably just told to shoot anything moving that isn't explicitly on their side.

Shame they didn't shoot down Putin's plane down when he was flying over

"Comrade. If you see on this screen a big white blip it means your tracking a aircraft"
"Da Comrade"
"Comrade. If you see this light indicator go steady on it means the system is locked on."
"Da Comrade"
"Comrade. After visually confirming the light indicator is steady on in saying the tracking radar system has locked onto target your next action is to press this button"
"Da Comrade"
"By pressing this button after ensuring you have a steady light indicator the entire vehicle will shake, rattle, and roar as a missile will fly off the rails in back of the vehicle"
"Shake, Rattle, and Roar Comrade?"
"Comrade I am sorry. I made a funny and we're not here for that. Disregard and omit that from your written report later."
"Daaaa Comrade."
"Comrade. After firing the missile your crew will have to immediately move to one of three locations that has been determined for you."
"Da Comrade"
"Any questions?"
"Yes I have one. The can of spray paint Andre...."
"QUIET COMRADE! No names. As for the spray paint its for some discoloration on the vehicle at certain location."

 obsidianaura wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
They were probably just told to shoot anything moving that isn't explicitly on their side.

Shame they didn't shoot down Putin's plane down when he was flying over

That's a good way for Ukraine to cease to exist,

 Tyran wrote:

 obsidianaura wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
They were probably just told to shoot anything moving that isn't explicitly on their side.

Shame they didn't shoot down Putin's plane down when he was flying over

That's a good way for Ukraine to cease to exist,

Haven't had a good international incident in a while.

North Korea been quiet for awhile.
Can have another submarine run aground down South Korea and have a repeat of that mayhem

What is there about Mukachevo?
Russian media presents it as a second front opening. But for me it's just a criminal gang violence.
Also surprised by the Praviy Sector, which also inflates the situation as a "second front".


.

It is good to see the Ukrainian government finally standing up to the Nazis.
Such illegal armed gangs should be destroyed without delay.

I just cannot take that second video seriously with that absurd soundtrack.

Had it my PC on mute

So same convoy which the vehicles looked to damn clean.
Someone should have taken a card from the Somali's and lit the tires on fire

Looks like Russia is getting ready to provide close air support for the 'Separatists'. or, have the pilots 'borrowed' the Backfires that are currently being deployed to Crimea?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33649298

 BaronIveagh wrote:
Looks like Russia is getting ready to provide close air support for the 'Separatists'. or, have the pilots 'borrowed' the Backfires that are currently being deployed to Crimea?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33649298

Nothing new

In the late 1980s, the Tu-22M3 was based in Crimea, at the Vesyoloye base and the now disused airfield at Oktyabrskoye. Both were run by Soviet naval air regiments.

Bombers in Crimea? That is crazy. Why would they station long-range bombers so close to the border? Doesn't that take away the advantage of being "long-range" bomber?

Pretty much makes the Black Sea dangerous for NATO naval forces and can slam NATO airbase in Turkey (Incirlik AB)

Edit

Damn its anti shipping to
Sucker can reach into the Med

Edit II

In January 2013, reports emerged that China had signed a purchase agreement for the production and delivery of 36 Tu-22M3, under the Chinese designation of H-10; many components are to be manufactured domestically in China under a technology transfer agreement with Russia and Tupolev.[21] Sales of the Russian-built Raduga Kh-22 long-range anti-ship missile and the fleet's intended use as a maritime strike platform have also been speculated upon.[22] Rosoboronexport has reportedly denied any sales or negotiations with China regarding the Tu-22M

I wonder why

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Bombers in Crimea? That is crazy. Why would they station long-range bombers so close to the border? Doesn't that take away the advantage of being "long-range" bomber?

Moving your long range bomber closer means it can fly farther. With this honestly, don't look at Ukraine. Look at the surrounding regions and ask where Russia wants to go after the Ukraine that that airfield gives them.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Bombers in Crimea? That is crazy. Why would they station long-range bombers so close to the border? Doesn't that take away the advantage of being "long-range" bomber?

Gives them an even longer range (less distance to travel) and allows threat projection into areas they couldn't previously?

Crimea is also relatively defensible from a conventional standpoint, and having those bombers there would really be taking advantage of that sweet strategic placing.

Political considerations aside, Crimea is a great place for a bomber base.

Did the Russians secure much in the way of hardware from the Ukrainians when they invaded? I'm given to believe that they've just let the Seperatists use a lot of it, but I'm wondering if anythings going back to Russia? Those ships and planes in the bases for instance? IIRC the Ukrainians had some of their armour plants in the area that's now Russian controlled too (one of the reasons why the optics on newer tanks being produced aren't up to scratch). There's quite a few modernizing projects being carried out by the Ukrainians on their old Soviet gear, which I'd be thinking the Russians would be interested in having for themselves, if only to know what the competition's doing (and hey if they wouldn't use it themselves the Ukrainians have been selling them quite well on the foreign market).

If they wanted that I'm sure they could have used some Spies to get that information. Or just bribed a Ukrainian official to give them some of the gear.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Bombers in Crimea? That is crazy. Why would they station long-range bombers so close to the border? Doesn't that take away the advantage of being "long-range" bomber?

Gives them an even longer range (less distance to travel) and allows threat projection into areas they couldn't previously?

It also gives them longer time on station and quicker turn around time for sorties into the Ukraine...

 CptJake wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Bombers in Crimea? That is crazy. Why would they station long-range bombers so close to the border? Doesn't that take away the advantage of being "long-range" bomber?

Gives them an even longer range (less distance to travel) and allows threat projection into areas they couldn't previously?

It also gives them longer time on station and quicker turn around time for sorties into the Ukraine...

From a tactical viewpoint it is very daft to put long range bombers in Crimea.....if your goal is supporting the Ukrainian insurrection. However, if you look at it from a strategic stand point it is incredibly smart. You now have bombers in relatively short range of vast swathes of Europe, the Black Sea and the Med.

Russian humanitarian convoy in East Ukraine.

 Wyrmalla wrote:

Russian humanitarian convoy in East Ukraine.

That picture needs to be used for a Creed strategic genius meme. Or something. Just hilarious.

2 questions.

1) How the hell did they get it in there?

2) How are they gonna get it out?

 Grey Templar wrote:
2 questions.

1) How the hell did they get it in there?

2) How are they gonna get it out?

1) They pushed. Really, REALLY hard.

2) With a little butter.

The semi trailer is sectional. Sides, Support strut, and framing can be removed and placed back in.

 Jihadin wrote:
The semi trailer is sectional. Sides, Support strut, and framing can be removed and placed back in.

I figured that, but they still dumped a tank on its side.