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2015/11/28 02:46:07
Subject: Ukraine: Witness the rise of a new Russian Empire, live!
And it doesn't seem like they're getting anything from the EU either. Like I said, there doesn't seem to be anything to lose by stopping the flow of gas but maybe they can gain by reminding all of Europe their heating needs all go through the Ukraine.
2015/11/29 05:48:21
Subject: Ukraine: Witness the rise of a new Russian Empire, live!
And it doesn't seem like they're getting anything from the EU either. Like I said, there doesn't seem to be anything to lose by stopping the flow of gas but maybe they can gain by reminding all of Europe their heating needs all go through the Ukraine.
And Europe can remind Ukraine that its existence depends on their goodwill.
2015/11/29 14:34:04
Subject: Re:Ukraine: Witness the rise of a new Russian Empire, live!
Interesting article on the Azov Battalion. They refuse to integrate with the regular Ukrainian military, so all equipment the government provides them is on loan. Instead they choose to cannibalize older kit (namely tanks which were converted to tractors - and as far as the paperwork is concerned, are still tractors. They're the makers of Ukraine's "Mad Max" tanks (the only volunteer battalion with its own tank factory - others are using smaller facilities), whilst the government is modernizing the old Soviet vehicles.
Yes, this Azov Battalion...
Spoiler:
They're likening their new tank to the Maus. =P
“The Ukrainian government couldn’t build this tank. Why? Because they steal the money much faster than they can spend it,”
Earlier this week a soldier told Motherboard about how he and his colleagues had “liberated” 40 sets of night vision goggles from government storage. He said the goggles were donated to Ukraine by the US and Canada as part of those countries’ non-lethal assistance programs but, the soldier says, the Ukrainian government locked them in storage around 50km from the frontline. He speculates the government intended to sell the goggles rather than provide them to the troops.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/29 14:35:30
2015/11/29 15:37:48
Subject: Re:Ukraine: Witness the rise of a new Russian Empire, live!
I'm more confused how we define night vision goggles as non-lethal. I mean sure they don't shoot bullets, but the only thing they're really good for is seeing in the dark to know where you're bullets are going...
LordofHats wrote: I'm more confused how we define night vision goggles as non-lethal. I mean sure they don't shoot bullets, but the only thing they're really good for is seeing in the dark to know where you're bullets are going...
NV equipment gets used for search & rescue purposes here in the US by law enforcement, and it also gets used by helicopter pilots who are doing night flights in areas that don't have good visibility/landmarks.
2015/11/29 16:24:39
Subject: Ukraine: Witness the rise of a new Russian Empire, live!
LordofHats wrote: I'm more confused how we define night vision goggles as non-lethal. I mean sure they don't shoot bullets, but the only thing they're really good for is seeing in the dark to know where you're bullets are going...
NV equipment gets used for search & rescue purposes here in the US by law enforcement, and it also gets used by helicopter pilots who are doing night flights in areas that don't have good visibility/landmarks.
Yes, I'm sure that's what we had in mind when we gave them to Ukraine
The Humvees which the US gave to the Ukrainians had machine guns attached to their turrets within the week.
Funny that the US specifically refused to give Azov any aid though, but they're getting it anyway. Given that they're on of the largest battalions that's kind of a given though (similarly the fact that they're Neo-Nazis is perhaps a bit moot when calling its members all nazis given that you'd probably want to be siding with the guys with the best gear instead of some back water unit). I assume their 50,000 members quip refers to all those school kids that they were handling out Azov flags to months ago though.
2015/11/29 17:15:47
Subject: Re:Ukraine: Witness the rise of a new Russian Empire, live!
That would be so typical Ukraine just never changes.
Yes, because Russian officers would never sell off weapons as surplus and then requisition more weapons due to being dangerously under-supplied...
I know of a military base commander in the Far East, who found that it was much more profitable to sell his soldier's meat rations and give them dogfood to eat instead. Here, I even found an English-language version of it: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/19/us-russia-troops-dogfood-idUSTRE74I4TH20110519 Russians are not any different from Ukrainians Altough it must be said that Putin has quite ruthlessly cracked down on this kind of stuff. In the 90's and early 2000's though, it was horrible. The Russian army had to pillage potato fields just to stay alive, much like the Ukrainian army today. There is still a lot of corruption in backwater regions though.
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2015/11/29 19:08:29
Subject: Re:Ukraine: Witness the rise of a new Russian Empire, live!
That would be so typical Ukraine just never changes.
Yes, because Russian officers would never sell off weapons as surplus and then requisition more weapons due to being dangerously under-supplied...
I have a few problems with their ideas of tank design, namely there's no apparent way for the driver to see where he's going...
I posted that APC earlier in the thread. Its designed for protection against snipers, who have been shooting out the topics and through the vision ports. Instead, and this is not a unique concept, they're using cameras hooked up to monitors in the inside for vision. Additionally a pair of twin mortar turrets along with an LMG (IIRC) are stuck on the roof which will be remote controlled.
...Like the article says, a lot of money, but the designer considers the extra cost worth it for the added protection. =P
2015/11/30 00:51:48
Subject: Ukraine: Witness the rise of a new Russian Empire, live!
LordofHats wrote: I'm more confused how we define night vision goggles as non-lethal. I mean sure they don't shoot bullets, but the only thing they're really good for is seeing in the dark to know where you're bullets are going...
We define NVG/NODs as non-lethal because that is exactly what they are
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/30 00:52:13
2015/11/30 02:16:09
Subject: Re:Ukraine: Witness the rise of a new Russian Empire, live!
He speculates the government intended to sell the goggles rather than provide them to the troops.
That would be so typical Ukraine just never changes.
To be fair, it's not like that same thing hasn't also happened en-masse in Russia too, or in fact just about all middle eastern armies, and even sometimes in the US.
But yes, the Ukrainian government is often its own worst enemy.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/30 02:17:39
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
2015/11/30 02:31:51
Subject: Re:Ukraine: Witness the rise of a new Russian Empire, live!
He speculates the government intended to sell the goggles rather than provide them to the troops.
That would be so typical Ukraine just never changes.
To be fair, it's not like that same thing hasn't also happened en-masse in Russia too, or in fact just about all middle eastern armies, and even sometimes in the US.
But yes, the Ukrainian government is often its own worst enemy.
Yeah, the same things have happened (and still happen) in Russia. But where Russia is changing, Ukraine is not. Ukraine is still stuck in the 90's, unlike Russia and Belarus it has never been able to rebuild after the collapse of the Soviet Union.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/30 02:32:38
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2015/11/30 03:54:19
Subject: Ukraine: Witness the rise of a new Russian Empire, live!
Well, sort of. Much like Belarus and Russia, some parts of Ukraine have done very well, other parts have basically fallen off the face of the earth. Ukraine just hasn't had terribly spectacular central government stability to at least channel the corruption the way Belarus and Russia have with their respective perpetual leaders, nobody has managed to stay in power long enough in Ukraine to put a solid lid on things, and I don't think Poroshenko is going to be there forever either. Russia also had the benefit of plugging into massive natural gas reserves right as the market demanded a huge new source, which obviously helped
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
2015/11/30 15:46:45
Subject: Re:Ukraine: Witness the rise of a new Russian Empire, live!
Update, 9:45 a.m., 30 November 2015: An earlier version of this story indicated the police department employee was fired, when in fact he was assigned to a different job in the organization as the investigation into the matter continues.
A Dutch police worker is suspected of offering MH17 related items for sale on online classifieds site Marktplaats. He was reassigned bending the outcome of the investigation. The worker was also arrested on suspicion of embezzlement, the police announced on Sunday.
According to the police, the items offered for sale includes clothes the employee used in the MH17 investigation, a pouch of Malaysia Airlines tissues and “a small piece of unknown material”. RTV Oost reports that a piece of the plane was also offered for sale.
At this stage it is unclear whether these items actually come from flight MH17 and whether the employee sold anything. The police launched an internal investigation into the employee to clarify these matters. The Public Prosecutor’s office in Oost-Nederland is also doing a criminal investigation.
RTV Oost reports that the police worker involved is a man from Apeldoorn.
A spokesperson for Marktplaats told Dutch newspaper AD that the “objectionable and unethical” advertisement was removed from the website last weekend. The site contacted the police and is fully cooperating with the investigation.
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24 years ago today US-backed Ukrainian rebels voted for Ukraine secession from Russia in a staged referendum. Referendum was a direct result of mysterious 'little democratic men' showing up on the streets and taking over government institutions. #NeverForgive #NeverForget
2015/12/01 22:11:49
Subject: Ukraine: Witness the rise of a new Russian Empire, live!
Ukraine is apparently negotiating to get the lights back on in Crimea, while Crimean locals insist that it's all Washington's fault they drove thousands of Tartars from their homes and into the Ukraine, where they realized Crimea's electricity comes from. The rest are blaming Moscow for failing to actually deliver on their promises made when they seceded from the Ukraine, or the Ukraine for not killing the Tartars and repairing the line.
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
2015/12/04 04:23:58
Subject: Ukraine: Witness the rise of a new Russian Empire, live!
I think, those tatars moved into Ukraine after Crimea referendum to join "maidan Ukraine" instead of Russia. Or even already stayed there (outside of peninsula).
All moving between Crimea ond Ukraine are recording documentally and usually appearinf in news, they can't just "go" there because no electricity unnoticed.
Mordant 92nd 'Acid Dogs'
The Lost and Damned
Inquisition
2015/12/04 04:31:52
Subject: Ukraine: Witness the rise of a new Russian Empire, live!
The Tartars returned to Ukraine following the end of the USSR. They had previously fled and been deported from Crimea (starting with the Early Russian Empire, and continuing into the early years of the USSR).
When the USSR ended, a bunch of them decided to go back to Crimea, but neither the Russian Federation nor Ukraine did much to deal with the issue so they ended up squating on unused land. When Crimea was Annexed, the Russian government told them to stop squating on land they didn't own, so they started going to Ukraine, and back to Turkey (most Tartars deported by the Russian Empire ended up in the Ottoman Empire).
Freakazoitt wrote: Yep, as I remembers, they returned in late 1980s or early 1990s from other regions.
Pulling from memory. The last big push to deport Tartars was at the end of the Second World War. The USSR started letting them return in the 60's, during deStalinization. There was something about repatriation/location put into the works in 1989, but then the USSR dissolved in 91 so the plan didn't go through the Tartars just ended up sitting wherever they could find. With all the other stuff going on, everyone just kind of forgot about them.
I don't imagine they're very popular in Russian/Ukrainian cultural memory either. They used to be all about rape, pillage, and plunder (and slavery) back in the day, which is why Russia (EDIT: Back when Russia was Muscovy) invaded their country and started deporting them in the first place.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/04 05:19:09
Ukraine is apparently negotiating to get the lights back on in Crimea, while Crimean locals insist that it's all Washington's fault they drove thousands of Tartars from their homes and into the Ukraine, where they realized Crimea's electricity comes from. The rest are blaming Moscow for failing to actually deliver on their promises made when they seceded from the Ukraine, or the Ukraine for not killing the Tartars and repairing the line.
Outside of a small minority, the Tartars were mostly living in Crimea illegally.
The Tartars should have moved to Tartarstan instead of Crimea. They would actually have been welcome there, seeing as that the Tartarstan government is trying to enhance the 'Tartarness' of Tartarstan. Outside of the Volga Tartars and the Turks, almost everyone dislikes Crimean Tartars.
As LordofHats says it very well, it is mostly a matter of there being a lot of bad history, and that combines with more recent problems.
Regarding electricity, the first power bridge from Krasnodar to Crimea has just been finished yesterday. It is now half operational, and will become fully operational on 20 december, which will cover about 80-90% of Crimea's energy need. A second bridge is already under construction too.
The government also has set up emergency camps where people can get electricity.
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2015/12/04 22:13:42
Subject: Ukraine: Witness the rise of a new Russian Empire, live!
Outside of a small minority, the Tartars were mostly living in Crimea illegally.
and have been pretty much since the Roman Empire. (It was called Taurica in Latin for a reason...)
Iron_Captain wrote: The Tartars should have moved to Tartarstan instead of Crimea.
And the Russians should have moved to Russia instead of Crimea.
Iron_Captain wrote: Outside of the Volga Tartars and the Turks, almost everyone dislikes Crimean Tartars.
Imperial Rome, the Huns, the Goths, and the Kazars didn't like them much either. The Scythians and Greeks thought they were OK though. I think that the Crimeans claiming that Crimea is now forever lost to the Tartars are getting a bit ahead of themselves. After all, Pompey said the same thing.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/04 22:16:40
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
2015/12/05 02:44:50
Subject: Ukraine: Witness the rise of a new Russian Empire, live!
Outside of a small minority, the Tartars were mostly living in Crimea illegally.
and have been pretty much since the Roman Empire. (It was called Taurica in Latin for a reason...)
There were no Tartars back then. Roman Crimea was conquered by the Goths, and later reconquered by the Byzantines. The Russians moved into Crimea at about the same time, when they expanded southwards. Crimea was hugely important for early Russian history, it was where the Russians got into contact with the Byzantine Empire (which had a massive influence on Russian culture and history) and where they converted to Orthodox christianity. The Eastern parts of Crimea and Korsun (Chersonesus) were eventually conquered by the Russians and became part of Kievan Rus'. (Sevastopol was later founded right next to the ruins of ancient Korsun)
This was all before any Tartar ever existed. The Tartars are the result of the merging of several nomadic Turkic peoples who came along with the Mongols (the "Mongol" Empire was actually made up mostly out of non-Mongols). They did not exist until about the 15th century.
Iron_Captain wrote: The Tartars should have moved to Tartarstan instead of Crimea.
And the Russians should have moved to Russia instead of Crimea.
Crimea is Russia. It was so before, it is so right now and it will be so in the future. Russians lived in Crimea before the Tartars came, and Russians will live in Crimea long after the Tartars are gone.
Iron_Captain wrote: Outside of the Volga Tartars and the Turks, almost everyone dislikes Crimean Tartars.
Imperial Rome, the Huns, the Goths, and the Kazars didn't like them much either. The Scythians and Greeks thought they were OK though. I think that the Crimeans claiming that Crimea is now forever lost to the Tartars are getting a bit ahead of themselves. After all, Pompey said the same thing.
No one liked them, except for the Turks. They came along with the Mongols, and conquered and enslaved everyone. It took until the 18th century to finally defeat them and end their vile practices. Of course, you can't blame modern Tartars for the crimes of their ancestors, but it does not do good for their reputation.
Also, I don't think Pompey ever said anything about Tartars, unless he had a time travel device, or you are referring to a different, later Pompey I do not know of.
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2015/12/05 23:11:58
Subject: Ukraine: Witness the rise of a new Russian Empire, live!
There were no Tartars back then. Roman Crimea was conquered by the Goths, and later reconquered by the Byzantines.
Yes there were. They were called the Tauri. They were there since before the Hellenic Colonization of southern Crimea. They were a pain in the ass for both the Greeks and Romans, a remnant of the Cimmerian people.
The Russians moved into Crimea at about the same time, when they expanded southwards.
Vladamir I conquered it in 988, and gave it back as part of the peace deal. He also had to embrace Christianity. In exchange, he got the Emperors sister for his bride. This is considered highly questionable, as no Greek records of it exist.
Crimea was hugely important for early Russian history,
So important, in fact, that no written sources from the period mention it, a fact that's made many wonder if it's a legend based around the actual events of the Byzantine/Rus war of 1040, which involved different but similarly named people.
Iron_Captain wrote: The Eastern parts of Crimea and Korsun (Chersonesus) were eventually conquered by the Russians and became part of Kievan Rus'.
Yes, it was in Kiev Rus. For, depending on which source you buy and what part of the territory you just named we're talking about, between six months and 90 years. around the year 1000 to about 1090 at the latest
Iron_Captain wrote: This was all before any Tartar ever existed. The Tartars are the result of the merging of several nomadic Turkic peoples who came along with the Mongols
Yes, and no. You DO realize that the Kazars were Turkic speaking nomads?
Tauri - Goths - Kazars - Tartars
That help you understand what went on? Layer Cake. The culture evolved and the people on top changed, but it was the same people living in the same place. It wasn't until Catherine's invasion that large numbers of Russians came to live in the area, and they didn't come to absolutely dominate it until Stalin removed everyone else (one way or the other).
Here's something to mull over: the Crimean Tartars named their capitol Qirim (and to this day is known as Stary Krym). It's not what the Kazars called it (they called it Solkhat, or 'Ditch', and made a point not to live outside a small fort there). The Tauri though, in later periods when greek really took hold, called it Κιμμερικόν or 'Cimmerium'.
Also, I don't think Pompey ever said anything about Tartars, unless he had a time travel device, or you are referring to a different, later Pompey I do not know of.
Mordant 92nd 'Acid Dogs'
The Lost and Damned
Inquisition
