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 Grimmor wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Grimmor wrote:

 Yaraton wrote:
It's one thing to vote against/not vote at all for Putin and another to yup on every corner on money that come from abroad. I bet you never heard of CIA paying "dissidents" before. Anywhere.

Back during the Cold War we did more than pay them, we gave them weapons and supplies, a fair chunk of the insurgents in the Middle East back then had weaponry given to them by the CIA.

As a concrete example the Bay of Pigs. Yes it was a horrible disaster, but we trained, armed and freakin transported them.

I don't know why you guys are still bothering with him, he's just insulting you in every thread.

Some of us like poking bears......

But wise men know better than to poke the bear.

If Yaraton is a bear, then he's a de-fanged, de-clawed Bear. Iron Captain is the only dangerous bear here.

And this must feel like a vacation for you IC, with someone else taking over as the resident punching bag.

 Yaraton wrote:

Well first of all, Canada has two official languages, so I could be a Francophone.

I highly doubt it based on how you insulted the French earlier.

 Yaraton wrote:

Second, you just quote me without adding anything of your own. I am done talking to you.

You asked what I was responding to. I posted the quote I was responding to.

If you're not smart enough to work that out on your own, there's not much I can do to help you.


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 Iron_Captain wrote:

But wise men know better than to poke the bear.

Indeed!

Looks like Azov are finally taking their brick out for a ride. ...It weights 41 tonnes.



More to follow when someone shoots with a modern HEAT round. For a T series derived APC, its on the light side actually. The Israeli one weighs 60 tonnes, damn that inferior Ukrainian ERA (must be all the extra swastikas)!

 Yaraton wrote:

Are you allowed to stone American embassy in Baghdad? Anyone wants to go and check for himself?

Well, you run with dogs, you get fleas. You run hilariously obvious show trials, you get protestors.

I admit i missed what was going on that they were protesting until I noticed one had a picture of Nadia Savchenko, who I will happily cheer on.



http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35760985

The dubious legality of the trial and the almost 100% certainty that it won't be a fair trial aside, is the allegation against her credible? Did she kill Russian journalists? Does she deny it?

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
The dubious legality of the trial and the almost 100% certainty that it won't be a fair trial aside, is the allegation against her credible? Did she kill Russian journalists? Does she deny it?

There's this issue where she was already captured before they were killed. She denies involvement.

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
The dubious legality of the trial and the almost 100% certainty that it won't be a fair trial aside, is the allegation against her credible? Did she kill Russian journalists? Does she deny it?

There's this issue where she was already captured before they were killed. She denies involvement.

Actually, the charge against her is not killing the journalists (and 5 other civilians) personally, but rather that she relayed their position to Ukrainian artillery, who then shelled the area with mortars. She was captured only one hour before the bombardment, so she could have very well informed Ukrainian forces before that. It is a strange case because she was actually transferred to Russia. Normally Russia is perfectly fine with letting the seperatists deal with captured war criminals.

In any case, whether guilty or not, Savchenko deserves no symphathy. She fought with the neo-nazis of Aidar battallion. The Aidar Battalion is notorious for committing war crimes (and has been accused of doing so not only by the seperatists or Russia, but also by Amnesty International, the Ukrainian governor of Lugansk Oblast and the Ukrainian Parliament).


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 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
If Yaraton is a bear, then he's a de-fanged, de-clawed Bear. Iron Captain is the only dangerous bear here.

And this must feel like a vacation for you IC, with someone else taking over as the resident punching bag.

I like Yaraton.

 Wyrmalla wrote:
Looks like Azov are finally taking their brick out for a ride. ...It weights 41 tonnes.



More to follow when someone shoots with a modern HEAT round. For a T series derived APC, its on the light side actually. The Israeli one weighs 60 tonnes, damn that inferior Ukrainian ERA (must be all the extra swastikas)!

It looks like they made it out of garbage dumpsters...

 Iron_Captain wrote:
In any case, whether guilty or not, Savchenko deserves no symphathy. She fought with the neo-nazis of Aidar battallion. The Aidar Battalion is notorious for committing war crimes (and has been accused of doing so not only by the seperatists or Russia, but also by Amnesty International, the Ukrainian governor of Lugansk Oblast and the Ukrainian Parliament).

Feth me.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
The Aidar Battalion is notorious for committing war crimes (and has been accused of doing so not only by the seperatists or Russia, but also by Amnesty International, the Ukrainian governor of Lugansk Oblast and the Ukrainian Parliament

Yes, but no evidence has been brought of anything more serious than unlawful detention and racketeering, which, frankly, should come as no surprise at all. Amnesty looked into the accusations of more serious crimes, including the murder accusation, and found that there was little to no proof.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:


Feth me.

A minor detail he's leaving out: the warcrimes Aidar supposedly committed started 3 months after her capture, according to Amnesty. They took on a large number of new recruits after they pushed into Luhansk to replace casualties and it looks like some seriously bad elements got involved.

Russian empire?

Please, I pray every day.

If you are russian and reading this please urge your leaders to destroy the west, we no longer deserve to exist.

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:
Russian empire?

Please, I pray every day.

If you are russian and reading this please urge your leaders to destroy the west, we no longer deserve to exist.

There are three things I find wrong with your statement.

1. No one in Russian wants to build a "Russian Empire". If anything, ordinary people want to build a giant wall to stop the immigrants coming from the tomato republics and ...stans of the former USSR to Russia. I bet if Trump was Russian he would have no problem becoming a president in Russia.
2. No one wants to destroy the West in Russia. In the last 20 years the Russians were so much brainwashed, most of the population wants to live like USA. They don't like USA because they feel they are being treated like eternal enemies no matter how much their government wants to lick the West.
3. Why do you hate freedom?




Stay classy, ukraine!
At 00:29 the sign in the center reads "Death to Russia!" and the next one on the right reads "Russia will fall and freedom will meet you at the entrance". I would pay this bunch just to show them on Russian TV so people in Russia finally stopped that idiotic nonsense about "Slavic brotherhood" and started to see "ukrainians" for what they really are. But why pay when they do it for free?

Well considering russia invaded ukraine and annexed crimea, I am pretty sure their hatred towards russia is pretty understandable.

 Ustrello wrote:
Well considering russia invaded ukraine and annexed crimea, I am pretty sure their hatred towards russia is pretty understandable.

I've missed that part in the world news where "Russia invaded ukraine". Must be the local news on closed-circuit television in an American psychiatric hospital. Coinciding that Crimea was a Russian territory that was illegally and temporary occupied by so-called "ukraine", it wasn't a crime when Russia returned it, since it's population voted not to be under the Nazi government anymore.

So close if you had one more lie in that sentence it would of been a truth, because that is how it works right? Even number of lies and it makes a truth.

 Wyrmalla wrote:
Looks like Azov are finally taking their brick out for a ride. ...It weights 41 tonnes.



More to follow when someone shoots with a modern HEAT round. For a T series derived APC, its on the light side actually. The Israeli one weighs 60 tonnes, damn that inferior Ukrainian ERA (must be all the extra swastikas)!

Now I need a scale model of it for a new Imperial Guard IFV.


And I shouldn't have used Google Translate to read that article:

Development of the Ukrainian military after the presentation praised the deputy chairman of the Russian Government Dmitry Rogozin, who is in charge, in particular, defense contracts and military-technical cooperation. "Military-industrial complex of Ukraine has made innovation a new tank out of dumpsters," - wrote the deputy prime minister on Twitter.

 Ustrello wrote:
So close if you had one more lie in that sentence it would of been a truth, because that is how it works right? Even number of lies and it makes a truth.

Feel free to correct me with facts.

 Yaraton wrote:

 Ustrello wrote:
So close if you had one more lie in that sentence it would of been a truth, because that is how it works right? Even number of lies and it makes a truth.

Feel free to correct me with facts.

There's this detail where Sevastopol was part of Ukraine. I don't care how illegitimate you feel that was, the fact remains that Crimea was a part of Ukraine, then little green men popped up and now it isn't. Hence "invasion".

Further, a referendum organised and performed so rapidly after a foreign power that has a vested interest in the outcome of said referendum shows up has little to no legitimacy. It's entirely possible that everyone did in fact vote to leave Ukraine, but the reliability of the referendum is suspect at best.

Not to drag myself into the bull, but FYI, when it came to what land was annexed from Ukraine by Russia, it had nothing to do with who actually supported the Russians. Ack, need to find a map. Pro-Ukrainian or Pro-Russian sentiments hardly match which areas remained with Ukraine and which were taken.

We'll just ignore that internationally only Russia and its allies acknowledge the results of the vote in Crimea. Ignore too all those little interntional investigations which pulled up vote rigging too.

...But wait, what's the point in mentioning all of this? Its old news and has already been discussed to death and agreed upon in this thread and elsewhere. Its a minority who chose to ignore the facts.

Well, Crimea was the heart of the Pro-Russian sentiment in Ukraine, has a very large Russian population and was oppressed by Ukraine several times since its creation.
While I doubt the veracity of the referendum, I also doubt that the Crimeans felt anything resembling loyalty to Kiev and at worst simply saw it as a "meet the new boss, same as the old boss" situation.
But regardless of how Crimea felt, it still is an invasion followed by an annexation, so I doubt Kiev appreciates it, although they will have to learn to deal with it.

And there is also the issue of the separatists who have a very blatant military support from Russia (although luckily for them Russia never wanted to conquer Ukraine, otherwise there wouldn't be an Ukraine left).

As far as support for Russia there was a poll done a few years before the annexation across Ukraine as to Pro-Russian sentiment. It came out as the edges of Crimea being Pro-Russian, others being Pro-Ukrainian. As for central Ukraine there was a similar split, with some areas having more Russian support than those in the now annexed regions.

Realistically the Russians took the area on a trumped up reason. Of course there was Pro-Russian sentiments, but if the Russians were to use that excuse then Ukraine would have been a patchwork of annexed areas instead of a clear cut line. The whole "there's Russians there who need protecting from the evil Pro-European/ anti-puppet government lot" line was bull though. Given that Moscow has used the same excuse for invasion x number of times before kind of makes it a moot point (great though when it doesn't work out and they have to hang their troops out to dry...).

If countries could just annex each other for having a portion of the population having Pro-X leanings or being of X-nationality then... We'll I think Britain'll be having half its colonies back. Shame not every country's putting on the Reich like Russia has then when it comes to aggressive expansion (ooh, and extra fun to bring back the whole analogy to Germany annexation of Europe circa 1930-40s. They used the same reasoning the Russians have).

Well, Britain has the problem that most of its former colonies are an ocean or more away and have proper military forces defending them. Meanwhile Russia is surrounded by weak states that it can easily bully.

Of course the whole national thing is simply an excuse. Crimea was annexed because its naval base.


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Also a better analogy is the US, which was very unpleasant to plenty of Latin American countries.

Yes, but analogies to the Fascist states I find are more fitting considering the current Russian administration's political ideology and actions. That and we already past the Godwin's Law limit on the first page of this thread years ago.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Yaraton wrote:

 Ustrello wrote:
So close if you had one more lie in that sentence it would of been a truth, because that is how it works right? Even number of lies and it makes a truth.

Feel free to correct me with facts.

There's this detail where Sevastopol was part of Ukraine. I don't care how illegitimate you feel that was, the fact remains that Crimea was a part of Ukraine, then little green men popped up and now it isn't. Hence "invasion".

Further, a referendum organised and performed so rapidly after a foreign power that has a vested interest in the outcome of said referendum shows up has little to no legitimacy. It's entirely possible that everyone did in fact vote to leave Ukraine, but the reliability of the referendum is suspect at best.

Sevastopol was never a part of Ukraine. Never. And no amount of your lies can change that.
I dare you to come to Sevastopol and repeat what you just said in public.


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 Wyrmalla wrote:
Yes, but analogies to the Fascist states I find are more fitting considering the current Russian administration's political ideology and actions. That and we already past the Godwin's Law limit on the first page of this thread years ago.

Oh God... Would you please stop this trolling? As you said, we already had it on page 1. It wasn't funny then, it is even less funny if you just keep on recycling the same stupid jokes for years. Come up with something new please.

Re: Sevastopol

In May 1997, Russia and Ukraine signed the Peace and Friendship Treaty, ruling out Moscow's territorial claims to Ukraine.[18] A separate agreement established the terms of a long-term lease of land, facilities, and resources in Sevastopol and the Crimea by Russia

Transferred to Ukrainian ownership along with the rest of the region. On a state of lease to Russia, which was renewed and extended as per a number of agreements. So realistically if you were to go there you'd think it was Russian, but rather its like saying someone renting out an office block who paints the walls and puts their logo on the front owns the land the building's on.

And ... The calling the Russian government a bunch of fascists was a joke, but its pernickety to argue over the point which I was making.

How is the implication that I would get assaulted for pointing out that Sevastopol de jure was Ukrainian territory before the annexation to Russia's advantage? That'd seem to imply that Russians are violent thugs; are you a Russophobe?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
How is the implication that I would get assaulted for pointing out that Sevastopol de jure was Ukrainian territory before the annexation to Russia's advantage? That'd seem to imply that Russians are violent thugs; are you a Russophobe?

I see Yaraton is having a bad influence on you.

 Yaraton wrote:

 Ustrello wrote:
So close if you had one more lie in that sentence it would of been a truth, because that is how it works right? Even number of lies and it makes a truth.

Feel free to correct me with facts.

Past 150 pages should do it

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Yaraton wrote:

 Ustrello wrote:
So close if you had one more lie in that sentence it would of been a truth, because that is how it works right? Even number of lies and it makes a truth.

Feel free to correct me with facts.

There's this detail where Sevastopol was part of Ukraine. I don't care how illegitimate you feel that was, the fact remains that Crimea was a part of Ukraine, then little green men popped up and now it isn't. Hence "invasion".

Further, a referendum organised and performed so rapidly after a foreign power that has a vested interest in the outcome of said referendum shows up has little to no legitimacy. It's entirely possible that everyone did in fact vote to leave Ukraine, but the reliability of the referendum is suspect at best.

Sevastopol was never a part of Ukraine. Never. And no amount of your lies can change that.
I dare you to come to Sevastopol and repeat what you just said in public.

it was internationally recognized as being part of Urkaine for about 20 years...there's a reason Russia had to sign agreements with Ukraine to *lease* port facilities there...

And with little green men walking about with loaded AK-74's and track-suited local enforcers everywhere...and Russian military border controls in place, I don't think any of us will be going there (or would be easily allowed in) any time soon...

It would be less a problem with Russia and more with the Western powers. I imagine that they wouldn't like us going in a vacation to a place under sanctions.