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Even the warhammer fantasy crowd at my gaming club are generally massively negative to Warhammer Visions, with a lesser extent to WD: Weekly. And they're usually very, I guess sanguine, is the right word, about GW's hijinks.
I kinda like the Warhammer Visions book, but I do wish they wouldn't have used so much recycled artwork (at least it looks that way) and the pictures that take up two pages, they should have gate-folded them.
But I also think, that at this point, nothing GW does is going to get a good review from anyone. Hating GW is so ingrained in our culture now they'll be hated no matter what.
mechanicalhorizon wrote: I kinda like the Warhammer Visions book, but I do wish they wouldn't have used so much recycled artwork (at least it looks that way) and the pictures that take up two pages, they should have gate-folded them.
But I also think, that at this point, nothing GW does is going to get a good review from anyone. Hating GW is so ingrained in our culture now they'll be hated no matter what.
You realize that doing your job properly doesn't mean you get praise, that is expected. You get praise when you go above and beyond what is expected of you. GW has done nothing to deserve praise, and have actually done more to harm the community then good as of late.
We know they can do better, they just aren't trying or don't care. The worst thing you can do is encourage their lofty 'we can do no wrong' attitude.*
*It's probably why we are in this mess in the first place. Its okay to say something is crap
Rick Priestley said it best:
Bryan always said that if the studio ever had to mix with the manufacturing and sales part of the business it would destroy the studio. And I have to say – he wasn’t wrong there! The modern studio isn’t a studio in the same way; it isn’t a collection of artists and creatives sharing ideas and driving each other on. It’s become the promotions department of a toy company – things move on!
While I do not like what I am hearing about WV... if some folks think that it is worth the money for pretty pictures on a printed page... then more power to 'em.
If nothing else it may be something to hand to folks that want to know what can be done with those oddly shaped bits of metal and plastic that crowd your shelves.
I do expect this new magazine to be short lived, and I very much feel that the decision to convert White Dwarf subscriptions to a completely different freakin' type of magazine! was a terrible choice.
One that means that Warhammer Visions will not be judged on its own merits (or the lack thereof) but instead compared to the magazine that it is replacing.
They really should have just replaced the old White Dwarf with the new White Dwarf Weekly.
As it stands... I think that both magazines may have been doomed.
The Auld Grump
Well said - let's cut EoT some slack.
I know I will - the man correctly sniffed out a Bauhaus reference for cryin' out loud!
Different strokes and all that, but after viewing some of the unreal skills of some painters here on Dakka (jah-Joshua, Winterdyne to name a few) it's kind of hard to PAY for a step back in skill.
Perhaps they should change the name to Warhammer: Smokescreen?
AduroT wrote: Has anyone tried to cancel and get their subscriptions refunded yet?
Quite a few have said they are trying but not many (any?) seem to be having any luck. It looks like GW are saying go through Apple and Apple are saying go through GW.
Fafnir wrote: Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that.
God, is it wrong that I hope this ends in a lawsuit against GW? Lol. Think about it: Apple vs GW over who owes a lot of pissed off customers. Somebody grab the popcorn!
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.
EYEofTERROR wrote: It is page after page of glamour shots of my favorite models painted to a very high standard featuring incredible displays and dioramas.
Which is fine... except that those models being available to look at for free on the internet already makes buying the magazine somewhat redundant, surely?
Just have to comment on that. The pictures in the Vision of the Slayer Sword winner are the first real close-ups of the piece I have found anywhere. Up till now, I felt it didn't deserve the sword. Looking at the pictures, the work on everything except the mask is amazing. Arron Lovejoy stopped posting pictures of his pieces to CMoN and he doesn't have closeups of any of his works on his painting service facebook page. Visions had four pages detailing his Avatar, which is ironic since it didn't win anything .
Also, webpages disappear. Knowing that you still have it sitting on your shelf if far more reassuring that hoping the image stays around on the web.
mechanicalhorizon wrote: But I also think, that at this point, nothing GW does is going to get a good review from anyone. Hating GW is so ingrained in our culture now they'll be hated no matter what.
Look back at the thread on the Dark Eldar release and see how Dakka reacts to a GW release that makes everything right (basically because the managers let someone like Jes do his job properly for once).
Ravenous D wrote: [You realize that doing your job properly doesn't mean you get praise, that is expected. You get praise when you go above and beyond what is expected of you.
And people get angry with me when I never said thank you to the Medics who cared for my family after a car accident...I mean...they were only doing their job! Its not as if they were dealing with three lives at the same time..just the two!
As for Warhammer Visions. I'll see out my sub (another two issues) and that will be it as a regular buy. When it comes out related to an army I collect, I'll consider it as I do like looking at other models for hints, tips, inspiration and so on. And I am fully aware that the internet exists but most of my working day revolves around screens, monitors, keyboards. I still like to sit down and flick through something hence my still reading hard copy SFX, Empire, 2000AD and so on.
mechanicalhorizon wrote: But I also think, that at this point, nothing GW does is going to get a good review from anyone. Hating GW is so ingrained in our culture now they'll be hated no matter what.
People on Dakka regularly praise GW for their minis which bar the odd, "WTF were you thinking?" model, are usually pretty good (though not everyone will like everything). However, nothing else they've done in recent years is deserving of praise.
I don't think most people are saying that paper magazines are rubbish.
They are saying that WH Vizsh is a rubbish magazine because the format, content and layouts are rubbish, and they all could have been done a lot better. Especially for the price.
It's not as bad as I was led to believe. Is it good? Not this issue. Too much stuff I'd already seen before. But I don't mind the format at all. It feels like a Japanese modeling magazine. They have a ton of mags just like this. All eye-candy. I don't mind eye-candy as long as it's tasty. And that's really the only problem I see with this particular issues is that there's too much stuff we've all seen before and it feels like page-filler. When it's stuff that I hadn't seen before I really enjoy looking at the photos. I COULD like this magazine. I think that there's a place for it, but I think that this was not a good first effort.
Dullspork wrote: So, I finally got a look at Warhammer: Visions.
It's not as bad as I was led to believe. Is it good? Not this issue. Too much stuff I'd already seen before. But I don't mind the format at all. It feels like a Japanese modeling magazine. They have a ton of mags just like this. All eye-candy. I don't mind eye-candy as long as it's tasty. And that's really the only problem I see with this particular issues is that there's too much stuff we've all seen before and it feels like page-filler. When it's stuff that I hadn't seen before I really enjoy looking at the photos. I COULD like this magazine. I think that there's a place for it, but I think that this was not a good first effort.
I agree, I find nothing objectionable to the concept of a "showcase" magazine. Not something that I'd pay £7.50 for, but equally not something I think is a bad idea per sé. I think it is just another one to file in the "good idea, poor execution" drawer, which is frankly overflowing from GW in the last year or so.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Every time we have a thread on WD it's full of people saying they're going to cancel their subscription but lo behold, there's still plenty of subscribers left to claim the same in the next thread. If you have a subscription at this moment, it means you willingly gave GW money for WD sometime within the last year. In advance, no less. You're part of the problem.
It depends on what you want from the mag. Up until this change I still looked forward to getting my issue in the mail each month. It was an enjoyable diversion, and had gaming, hobby and painting info along with actual battlereports and details. Now the mag my subscription has been switched to has nothing in it that made me subscribe in the first place. Thus the 'script gets canceled now. Just because you didn't like the mag before this change, doesn't mean others didn't or couldn't. I've been reading White Dwarf well nigh forever, and finally it is done for me. The only people who are part of the problem are those who are moaning loudly about this change on places like Dakka and not doing a thing about it like canceling their subscription. When I talked to them to get mine canceled the CS rep sounded kind of weary as if I was just one more in a long line of people canceling the magazine.
Skriker
Automatically Appended Next Post:
mechanicalhorizon wrote: I kinda like the Warhammer Visions book, but I do wish they wouldn't have used so much recycled artwork (at least it looks that way) and the pictures that take up two pages, they should have gate-folded them.
But I also think, that at this point, nothing GW does is going to get a good review from anyone. Hating GW is so ingrained in our culture now they'll be hated no matter what.
It is hardly that simple. I am not canceling my script out of hate for GW. I am canceling it because they took the product I subscribed to and replaced it with a picture book with no actual gaming content anymore. The reason I am canceling is the exact same reason I don't subscribe to any other magazines that are just full of pretty pictures and zero substance either. I'd do the same thing if I was notified that my Military History mag was being replaced with a magazine called Military Visions that was just a bunch of pictures with none of the actual historical info I pay to read. I am done with White Dwarf since I can't get the weekly shipped to my mail box, and I refuse to make the trek to the nearest GW store only to find it isn't open yet again during the posted hours. It just is too far away to never actually be able to set foot into the store when I get there. Sad because this ends the monthly White Dwarf ritual I've had for close to 30 years...
Skriker
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/04 16:10:29
CSM 6k points CSM 4k points
CSM 4.5k points CSM 3.5k points
and Daemons 4k points each
Renegades 4k points
SM 4k points
SM 2.5k Points
3K 2.3k
EW, MW and LW British in Flames of War
The real question, I think, is not how many people are cancelling their subscriptions, but how many people are going to sign up for a new subscription? I can't see droves of people signing up to receive this publication. If you're targeting a younger crowd (20 and under), then you're targeting a group with the internet at their beck and call - the internet is their milieu, it is where they thrive. They are probably not going to pay for a pictorial that they can get on a handful of sites for free. So, scratch out that demographic. You're not targeting the gaming crowd - you said so yourself in your letter to disgruntled customers, so scratch that demographic out. So, that leaves veteran modelers/collectors. This demographic probably wants to see more than stock photography of studio models. But, to be fair, let's say that there is a small group of people that may like this pictorial.
So, in switching to this two-mag format, you've ostracized much of your fanbase, along with people who had given up on you some time ago, but still enjoyed keeping up with the hobby through your magazine. Now, you've told those people they must come in to the store to catch a glimpse of White Dwarf, something that may or may not appeal to them. If they didn't go into stores before (for any number of reasons), do you think a flimsy reimagining of White Dwarf is going to draw them in?
Cracker-jack job of marketing there, GW.
WH40K Death Guard 5100 pts.
Daemons 3000 pts.
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I imagine that there's enough people cancelling than otherwise by the autoreply email not saying. "Thanks for telling us you love, Warhammer Visions, keep an eye out for next months issue, where it'll be better and better."
puma713 wrote: Now, you've told those people they must come in to the store to catch a glimpse of White Dwarf, something that may or may not appeal to them. If they didn't go into stores before (for any number of reasons), do you think a flimsy reimagining of White Dwarf is going to draw them in?
Cracker-jack job of marketing there, GW.
The thing is though, you have touched on this rather well; GW thinks right now that the stores when managed well should increase sales. If you make the preferred mag the weekly one, you are trying to get the players to enter the store to get the magazine to increase a chance of further sales. From their viewpoint this is genius!
Unfortunately we tend to be lazy so going in weekly is irritating so no; no prescription = no magazines bought.
The added bonus of trying to buy a magazine with a desperate manager trying to up-sale would keep me away on principle.
The magazine will be less than it was, I really cannot justify (increased) cost to content so it is doomed. I had stopped buying the magazine back in November after being a loyal-get-every-issue-for-the-last-8-years. I must admit other than the odd rule article the old articles had great content... know any good searchable index for all WD magazines?
I just cannot understand it, they have systematically destroyed every avenue of dialogue with their fan-base/customers. The only thing saving them is the black library books that have preserved some measure cool imaginings of the 40k universe.
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
Every time we have a thread on WD it's full of people saying they're going to cancel their subscription but lo behold, there's still plenty of subscribers left to claim the same in the next thread. If you have a subscription at this moment, it means you willingly gave GW money for WD sometime within the last year. In advance, no less. You're part of the problem.
It depends on what you want from the mag. Up until this change I still looked forward to getting my issue in the mail each month. It was an enjoyable diversion, and had gaming, hobby and painting info along with actual battlereports and details. Now the mag my subscription has been switched to has nothing in it that made me subscribe in the first place. Thus the 'script gets canceled now. Just because you didn't like the mag before this change, doesn't mean others didn't or couldn't. I've been reading White Dwarf well nigh forever, and finally it is done for me. The only people who are part of the problem are those who are moaning loudly about this change on places like Dakka and not doing a thing about it like canceling their subscription. When I talked to them to get mine canceled the CS rep sounded kind of weary as if I was just one more in a long line of people canceling the magazine.
Skriker
Automatically Appended Next Post:
mechanicalhorizon wrote: I kinda like the Warhammer Visions book, but I do wish they wouldn't have used so much recycled artwork (at least it looks that way) and the pictures that take up two pages, they should have gate-folded them.
But I also think, that at this point, nothing GW does is going to get a good review from anyone. Hating GW is so ingrained in our culture now they'll be hated no matter what.
It is hardly that simple. I am not canceling my script out of hate for GW. I am canceling it because they took the product I subscribed to and replaced it with a picture book with no actual gaming content anymore. The reason I am canceling is the exact same reason I don't subscribe to any other magazines that are just full of pretty pictures and zero substance either. I'd do the same thing if I was notified that my Military History mag was being replaced with a magazine called Military Visions that was just a bunch of pictures with none of the actual historical info I pay to read. I am done with White Dwarf since I can't get the weekly shipped to my mail box, and I refuse to make the trek to the nearest GW store only to find it isn't open yet again during the posted hours. It just is too far away to never actually be able to set foot into the store when I get there. Sad because this ends the monthly White Dwarf ritual I've had for close to 30 years...
Skriker
As for me - I cancelled my subscription once.
Ten years ago and more - and I have not bought a single issue at a news stand in all that time.
It was not a sudden 'Arrrggghhh! I hates the changes!' cancellation, just the slow realization that I was no longer getting anything out of reading the magazine.
And I had been reading White Dwarf since issue 1. (I still know how to calculate a Monster Mark....)
So, Warhammer Visions is not costing them any of my business - they had already lost me as a subscriber, and had done so years ago.
I agree with the idea that the new purpose of White Dwarf is to attract folks to their local GW store - but the truth is that an awful lot of folks will never see a GW store, let alone set foot in one.
The question are:
Will Warhammer Visions bring in more subscriptions than the old White Dwarf?
How about if we add the Warhammer Visions buyers with those that buy the new White Dwarf?
I... think that this is going to cost them more readers than it is going to gain them customers.
I really do miss the old Fat Dwarfs - Sawyer was about the best that White Dwarf had seen since becoming purely a house organ.
I... kind of wish that GW would spin White Dwarf over to FFG.
The Auld Grump
Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.
The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
Ten years ago and more - and I have not bought a single issue at a news stand in all that time.
It was not a sudden 'Arrrggghhh! I hates the changes!' cancellation, just the slow realization that I was no longer getting anything out of reading the magazine.
And I had been reading White Dwarf since issue 1. (I still know how to calculate a Monster Mark....)
I... kind of wish that GW would spin White Dwarf over to FFG.
The Auld Grump
You've got me by about 14 or 15 issues on when you started reading White Dwarf. Talk about old timers. Hahahaha. Would be interesting to see FFG do White Dwarf...would be REALLY awesome to see FFG release a CD/DVD set of the first 300 issues of White Dwarf or some such, like TSR did with Dragon Magazine back in the 90s. Still enjoy trolling through those old issues of Dragon mag on my laptop and still find interesting tidbits to add to my games.
Skriker
Automatically Appended Next Post:
AduroT wrote: Has anyone tried to cancel and get their subscriptions refunded yet?
Been there and done that the day after I got the first Visions in the mail and already have the funds back in my paypal account.
Skriker
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/04 21:32:07
CSM 6k points CSM 4k points
CSM 4.5k points CSM 3.5k points
and Daemons 4k points each
Renegades 4k points
SM 4k points
SM 2.5k Points
3K 2.3k
EW, MW and LW British in Flames of War
Ravenous D wrote: [You realize that doing your job properly doesn't mean you get praise, that is expected. You get praise when you go above and beyond what is expected of you.
And people get angry with me when I never said thank you to the Medics who cared for my family after a car accident...I mean...they were only doing their job! Its not as if they were dealing with three lives at the same time..just the two!
As for Warhammer Visions. I'll see out my sub (another two issues) and that will be it as a regular buy. When it comes out related to an army I collect, I'll consider it as I do like looking at other models for hints, tips, inspiration and so on. And I am fully aware that the internet exists but most of my working day revolves around screens, monitors, keyboards. I still like to sit down and flick through something hence my still reading hard copy SFX, Empire, 2000AD and so on.
You just compared medics, who save lives, to GW....
Kilkrazy wrote: I have thought for years that GW are not interested in veteran customers, they are interested in churning new recruits.
They gave up on that after switching everything to the one man destination stores in the middle of nowhere with no foot traffic format. I don't even they even know who they are selling to anymore.
Rick Priestley said it best:
Bryan always said that if the studio ever had to mix with the manufacturing and sales part of the business it would destroy the studio. And I have to say – he wasn’t wrong there! The modern studio isn’t a studio in the same way; it isn’t a collection of artists and creatives sharing ideas and driving each other on. It’s become the promotions department of a toy company – things move on!
Ravenous D wrote: [You realize that doing your job properly doesn't mean you get praise, that is expected. You get praise when you go above and beyond what is expected of you.
And people get angry with me when I never said thank you to the Medics who cared for my family after a car accident...I mean...they were only doing their job! Its not as if they were dealing with three lives at the same time..just the two!
As for Warhammer Visions. I'll see out my sub (another two issues) and that will be it as a regular buy. When it comes out related to an army I collect, I'll consider it as I do like looking at other models for hints, tips, inspiration and so on. And I am fully aware that the internet exists but most of my working day revolves around screens, monitors, keyboards. I still like to sit down and flick through something hence my still reading hard copy SFX, Empire, 2000AD and so on.
You just compared medics, who save lives, to GW....
Kilkrazy wrote: I have thought for years that GW are not interested in veteran customers, they are interested in churning new recruits.
They gave up on that after switching everything to the one man destination stores in the middle of nowhere with no foot traffic format. I don't even they even know who they are selling to anymore.
They're not thats the problem.
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
I looked through a friend's WV mag, and even though I usually really like the studio models and dioramas, I was pretty disappointed. I'll try it again in 6-9 months or so. They've probably already written photographed the next 3 issues, and then I'll give them another 3-6 months to turn it around. If I'm still not impressed... then never again.
Just recieved my (well the BF's) subscription, I'm speechless ... gutted ... strong letter heading to the HQ (for all the good it will do!) It's like they want to loose business ... Crazy ...
Urtyork
Orkses is never defeated in battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fighting so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!
.
CSM 6k points 
CSM 4k points
CSM 4.5k points 
CSM 3.5k points
Renegades 4k points
SM 4k points
SM 2.5k Points
3K 
2.3k
