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What I've been told using bikes for your command squad is ideal . but, I am opting to take a razorback with lascannon inside of bikes. Any thoughts or suggestions?

Well, bikes are faster, cheaper, and generally more survivable. I dont really see why anybody would take a razorback over bikes....

Well, I am not a fan of bikes That's why I recommended using a razorback

 greenmarine101 wrote:
Well, I am not a fan of bikes That's why I recommended using a razorback

Ok, so what are you kitting the squad out to do? If your going into an enclosed transport, you're going to have to expose them to shoot and you won't have the ability to assault the turn you disembark. I've seen ok results with a 4x plasma gun squad out of a razorback before but if you have any dreams of assaulting then you're better off with a LR or on bike.

4+ Jink, ignores.difficult terrain and +1 toughness or a tin can with TLLC that always gives up first blood... hmmmm

BaalSNAFU wrote:4+ Jink, ignores.difficult terrain and +1 toughness or a tin can with TLLC that always gives up first blood... hmmmm

Not all bikes are White Scars, so keep that in mind when stating the advantage of bike squads. And frankly, the “first blood” argument is getting old. There is always going to be something in your list that can be focused fired of the table if you go second. Unless you are going null-deploymet, something is going to pony up the first blood point. The OP doesn’t want bikes, lets work with that.

(I personally agree that bike command squads are the way to go, but that’s not helpful to the OP)

PanzerLeader wrote:

 greenmarine101 wrote:
Well, I am not a fan of bikes That's why I recommended using a razorback

Ok, so what are you kitting the squad out to do? If your going into an enclosed transport, you're going to have to expose them to shoot and you won't have the ability to assault the turn you disembark. I've seen ok results with a 4x plasma gun squad out of a razorback before but if you have any dreams of assaulting then you're better off with a LR or on bike.

This is useful advice. If you want a CC squad, the razorback is not the ride for you. I would add that a drop pod is also an option in the right lists for assault commands, but in general you shouldn’t be assaulting with deep strike/reserve units.

What HQ are you using? If you have one built to tank wounds, you can go with riskier gambits. A captain with AA and the shield eternal can stand up front and eat a turn of fire, allowing you to charge the next turn.

But for the most part, you are going to want to shoot things if you are hopping out of a razor, and that says to me plasma guns. If you wanted to make the squad more jack-of-all-trades, you could take a pair of plasma guns, and then the champion and another CC marine. This will make it so it can’t excel at any one job, but works as a troubleshooter squad to shore up the battlefield where they are needed. You are trading power for flexibility, and does not work well for every list/playstyle.

My current HQ is Captain with
Grenades
Iron Halo
Relic Blade
Artificer Armor
storm bolter w/ salvo

 greenmarine101 wrote:
Well, I am not a fan of bikes That's why I recommended using a razorback

Why? and if its because you have no other bikes in your army, screw that haha because the same is true for me. The only bikes i have are the command squad, and they are AMAZING

Well he doesn't need to run em if he doesn't want to.

A Razor might be fine in the right build.
It depends on what you give your command squad and what there job is.

Generally speaking you take em to get mass Special weapons as only they can.

5 man plasma with las plas razor might be a very killy thing onces you get in range.

It also protects against hell drake type threats for a turn at least.


But personally as they are non scoring i give em drop pods with mass plasma to get a decent alpha strike in

because i have dark angles bike army.....

I have slapped on the banner of devastation on my command squad and replaced their chainswords for boltguns. They are joined with a librarian equipped with a PFG for 4+ saves and prescience on nearby tactical squads.

It might be a boring way to use them, but they work well with the rest of a gun line army, adding their boltgun salvo/4 spam into the advancing enemy.

I run mine 5 meltas in a drop pod.

I think bikes are the whole reason to run them, if you're not going to use bikes you may as well take Honor Guard for the 2+ and free PWs since they'll need a transport anyways.

I had decent success my last game by putting my Captain and Command Squad in a Rhino (hear me out!) and hiding the Rhino behind a LRC. The Rhino survived for 3 turns (yes!) and the squad survived lots of firepower and combat due to Storm Shields and Apothecary (this guy makes it all worth it). FNP on top of 3++ is no joke.

 More Dakka wrote:
I think bikes are the whole reason to run them, if you're not going to use bikes you may as well take Honor Guard for the 2+ and free PWs since they'll need a transport anyways.

He would have to run a chapter master to get the HG. Depending on the game size, it might not be an option. However, if points DO permit, I agree 100%+ As has been said, they come stock.with artificer armor and a PW. The artificer armor being much more important than the PW to survive that round of shooting after disembarking. Especially being that they are T4 because of being on foot

The rules very clearly allow you to take a command squad and a razorback, you just can't put the command squad in the razorback.

This is a very good way of getting an extra drop pod or a bit of ranged fire support.

The best SM command squad is Jaghati Khan's old mate, Jhaghoti Khan's Command Squad

Captain W/ Bike, Storm Shield and Combi-grav
5 Command Squadsmen on bikes with 5x grav guns

It's about 340 points, plus a farseer. You redeploy using scouts, then get prescience up. You then move 12" (for a 24" move total) towards your enemies riptide, point, click, say boom.

Seriously, this works.

The captain gets 3 hits, no questions. The squad gets 15 shots which is 13 hits (re-rolls) a total of 16 hits adds up to be 14-ish wounds, which is more than the average 11 AP1/2 wounds needed to kill a riptide with Feel no Pain.

Oh how much quad-riptides will hate you if you get this off.

16 hits will kill a wraithknight with about 4 wounds to spare.

Except the Farseer is an ally of convience and can't cast blessings on SM units. You'd have to use a SW, BA, or DA Libby to achieve the same effect.

 Scipio Africanus wrote:
The rules very clearly allow you to take a command squad and a razorback, you just can't put the command squad in the razorback.
But my codex says a command squad can take razorback as a dedicated
transport


My idea is to hide command squad/razorback back of building away from LOS. and towards the end of the game rush to my opponents side of the table to get line breaker.

PanzerLeader wrote:
Except the Farseer is an ally of convience and can't cast blessings on SM units. You'd have to use a SW, BA, or DA Libby to achieve the same effect.

How much is a rune priest on a bike? Because you could take two (for two command squads.) in an ally detachment and that would achieve the same goal, you could even run them with the command squad for best results! (Assuming they can fight on bikes.)

Not sure never played space puppies

Ok, just to clarify. It says the CS can take items from the ranged + melee lists. It also says they can take SS's.

Soooo, could I have them all with SS's, add Stormbolters and also keep the chainswords?

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

PanzerLeader wrote:
Except the Farseer is an ally of convience and can't cast blessings on SM units. You'd have to use a SW, BA, or DA Libby to achieve the same effect.

How much is a rune priest on a bike? Because you could take two (for two command squads.) in an ally detachment and that would achieve the same goal, you could even run them with the command squad for best results! (Assuming they can fight on bikes.)

125 or 135 base on the bike plus upgrades. Starts at ML1 with a runic weapon.

 Scipio Africanus wrote:
The rules very clearly allow you to take a command squad and a razorback, you just can't put the command squad in the razorback.

What? That makes no sense. Command squad and captain is 6 models razorback takes 6 models. Or did you mean "just don't but them in the razorback"

I can see running a las/plas with a plasma squad for a mid range support squad.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Otto Weston wrote:
Ok, just to clarify. It says the CS can take items from the ranged + melee lists. It also says they can take SS's.

Soooo, could I have them all with SS's, add Stormbolters and also keep the chainswords?

Interestingly, yes. That has possiblites with Bolter Drills. Make a nice shooty and counter assault unit for pretty cheap.

barnowl wrote:

 Scipio Africanus wrote:
The rules very clearly allow you to take a command squad and a razorback, you just can't put the command squad in the razorback.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Otto Weston wrote:
Ok, just to clarify. It says the CS can take items from the ranged + melee lists. It also says they can take SS's.

Soooo, could I have them all with SS's, add Stormbolters and also keep the chainswords?

Interestingly, yes. That has possiblites with Bolter Drills. Make a nice shooty and counter assault unit for pretty cheap.

Mmmm Might start an SM army now then xD. Shove one of those Command Squads in a Caestus Ram - ram in, unload, shoot, charge.

Otto Weston wrote:
Ok, just to clarify. It says the CS can take items from the ranged + melee lists. It also says they can take SS's.

Soooo, could I have them all with SS's, add Stormbolters and also keep the chainswords?

IIRC, Storm Shields don't allow +1A for two weapons, so keeping the chainswords means nothing. Unless you are going to upgrade from them on the Melee List. Then you have that.

 Scipio Africanus wrote:
The rules very clearly allow you to take a command squad and a razorback, you just can't put the command squad in the razorback.

.. you most certainly can.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Otto Weston wrote:
Ok, just to clarify. It says the CS can take items from the ranged + melee lists. It also says they can take SS's.

Soooo, could I have them all with SS's, add Stormbolters and also keep the chainswords?

You can, yes. But there are problems with that build;

SS, while you can still take 2 weapons with it, means no additional attack for having 2 CCW's, so Chainswords are pointless. Go with Power Weapons (Mauls and Axes are good choices)
Stormbolters are typically nothing more than a points sink. Take something worthwhile. Melta, Plasma, Grav or even just regular bolters are better options.

Bikes are very good, but realize against a wound-spam strategy, bikes are still 3+ armor models that are wounded on one less pip. And against ST 7, there is NO difference. There is a lot of Xeno S7 out there.......

Martel732 wrote:
Bikes are very good, but realize against a wound-spam strategy, bikes are still 3+ armor models that are wounded on one less pip. And against ST 7, there is NO difference. There is a lot of Xeno S7 out there.......

Bikes are as vulnerable as tac marines and battle sisters to xeno s7 hits, but a great way to handle those xeno units is to charge them in cc with a fast unit like bikes. Command squads on bikes are a pure dakka unit that is sure to be focused by a xeno. The price has gone down a lot, but they are still as expensive with no upgrades on bikes as 5 bikes with 2 grav/plasma guns

 schadenfreude wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Bikes are very good, but realize against a wound-spam strategy, bikes are still 3+ armor models that are wounded on one less pip. And against ST 7, there is NO difference. There is a lot of Xeno S7 out there.......

Bikes are as vulnerable as tac marines and battle sisters to xeno s7 hits, but a great way to handle those xeno units is to charge them in cc with a fast unit like bikes. Command squads on bikes are a pure dakka unit that is sure to be focused by a xeno. The price has gone down a lot, but they are still as expensive with no upgrades on bikes as 5 bikes with 2 grav/plasma guns

Getting into assault is a non-trivial issue unfortunately.