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Well, I found that the GW plastic sprues have a much better quality than the PP ones. Currently, I'm collecting a Cyriss army and their resin sprues (consider Reductors) do not have the quality of that of Tactical Marines or Necron Warriors for instance.

What's your opinion?

My only experience with PP was a starter set and I found the quality pretty bad.

I'd never sad GW quality is good but I was quite put off by what I got from PP.

First off, you do not have resin Reductors, you have plastic Reductors. It's a different kind of plastic than what GW uses yes, but it's still just plastic. It's not a resin, nor is it some restic or plastic resin hybrid. It's just PVC plastic.

Secondly, yes, PP plastic is quite subpar when compared to GWs. I used to excuse that by PP being a smaller company not able to afford the big fancy machines that GW uses, but then Malifaux started making plastic figs of GWs level. PP really needs to upgrade their plastic technology and stop outsourcing it to china.

Zero problems with PPs metal though.

If it can't be glued with plastic cement, it isn't plastic for me. PP stuff can't be glued with plastic cement.

For all of GWs problems, I don't think many would complain about the quality of their plastic kits (aside from a few fiddly bits which don't quite work).

No experience of PP stuff.

 Kroothawk wrote:
If it can't be glued with plastic cement, it isn't plastic for me. PP stuff can't be glued with plastic cement.

Right. The material is some kind of resin. It cannot be glued with the normal plastic glue.

You get different kinds of plastic. Plastic glue only works on one type.

I've worked with quite a few PP "plastic" kits, and to be brutally honest, I'm 100% NOT a fan. They all have poor/shallow detaisl, with a good dose of misaligned casting, warped parts, and moldlines on the worst places possible.

The Wyrd Games hard plastics are, on the other hand, stellar. They're as good as GW plastics - crisp detail, easy to clean, and fairly strong. Plus they can be glued with super glue OR plastic cement.

The fact is that PP, a company that's AFAIK much bigger than Wyrd, is producing subpar work with a terrible material. It's really frustrating - PP metal kits are lovely. It would be nothing but a good thing if PP switched to hard plastic kits.

~Tim?

You can quite happily glue the PP stuff with plastic cement it's called PVC cement as it is most definitely a plastic. Not being able to use polystyrene cement to glue something in no way makes it resin.

As for the quality PVC is just not as good as material as styrene but it can be pretty close. The problem with the PP plastics is the implementation is poor which leads to misalignment and horrendous placed mold lines. Combined with PVC being slightly harder makes it very difficult to clean up well.

morkian wrote:
You can quite happily glue the PP stuff with plastic cement it's called PVC cement as it is most definitely a plastic. Not being able to use polystyrene cement to glue something in no way makes it resin.

You must be the first person on the internet to claim that one can glue PP "plastic" models with plastic cement.

You can, you just need to use the PVC cement plumbers do like this



not as easy to use as they come in big industrial tubs (and the fumes are nastier than many polystyrene cements) but certainly possible

 AduroT wrote:
Secondly, yes, PP plastic is quite subpar when compared to GWs. I used to excuse that by PP being a smaller company not able to afford the big fancy machines that GW uses, but then Malifaux started making plastic figs of GWs level. PP really needs to upgrade their plastic technology and stop outsourcing it to china.

The staggering irony in this statement is that Malifaux's plastics are, indeed, made in China. Wargames Factory produced the plastics (along with the plastics for Dreamforge Games and Kingdom Death).
So, the problem is not that PP outsourced their plastics to China, the problem is that they didn't outsource it to the best Chinese company (WGF).

that's not to say I don't prefer polystyrene it has several advantages

1.It's used by more of the industry (so more compatible bits that can be glued with polystyrene cement)

2. It's a much more mature technology (for mini companies), whereas trying to use PVC for sharp detail is new so not so good (whether it can improve who knows)

3. At the moment the kits are better

4 cleanup is easier (but there's not as much difference as many think once you know how to work with polystyrene)

GW is by far the better. The problem with PP is their minatures, sometimes even the old metal ones, have been hit with the ugly stick. An they are Mono-posed boor.
Here is what a think, I picked up a WG infantrymen and it looked like something the belonged in a board game, not on a Table Top wargame

 Kroothawk wrote:

morkian wrote:
You can quite happily glue the PP stuff with plastic cement it's called PVC cement as it is most definitely a plastic. Not being able to use polystyrene cement to glue something in no way makes it resin.

You must be the first person on the internet to claim that one can glue PP "plastic" models with plastic cement.

Actually the plastic glue most people are familiar with is called "polystyrene cement". Which, as the name might suggest only works on polystyrene.

Honestly, you would not be the first to complain, nor be the last about PP's plastic (hell, I get annoyed with them at times, and I prefer their metal over the plastic). While that being said, it seems that they are slowly getting better (save for the Cyriss models, which was a nightmare from what I heard) and I am fan of some of the multi-part kits (the two Menoth jacks I actually liked), but it is no near where the quality of GWs at all (even if I dropped their games). HonestluI think they need to switch the material or get a new person to make the kits.

Well, nothing more to add, really.

PP's PVC is rather terrible, I'm glad I quit Warmachine because when I look at my friend's deformed, crappy Cyriss models, I can't but pity him.

GW has great plastic tech, although some of the designs can be pretty ridiculous (Heldrake).

I am a bit reluctant to praise a company for reaching the plastic quality of Airfix models of the 70s.
Look at some Gundam models of the last 10-20 years to see what is possible.

 Kroothawk wrote:
I am a bit reluctant to praise a company for reaching the plastic quality of Airfix models of the 70s.
Look at some Gundam models of the last 10-20 years to see what is possible.

I don't necessarily disagree, although I've never owned an Airfix kit to my knowledge. I know that Revell and Italeri kits I had as a kid were pretty terrible. But I do have a few Japanese kits with wizardry such as multi-coloured sprues, and sprues with undercuts.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Look at some Gundam models of the last 10-20 years to see what is possible.

Its a shame that a GW kit can easily cost twice of much as a Bandai kit, and the Bandai kit will outshine it quite easily.

Dreamforge's mechs are pretty close in quality and features to some of Bandai's offerings, it wouldn't surprise me if there were a few ex-Bandai employees at WGF.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Well, nothing more to add, really.

PP's PVC is rather terrible, I'm glad I quit Warmachine because when I look at my friend's deformed, crappy Cyriss models, I can't but pity him.

GW has great plastic tech, although some of the designs can be pretty ridiculous (Heldrake).

To be fair, the CoC models are a pretty egregious example. Though I'm not gonna lie that experience of cleaning them has made me reluctant with PP's plastics.

 Eggs wrote:
You get different kinds of plastic. Plastic glue only works on one type.

Right, which is why the industry uses the term "plastic" as jargon to identify the specific types of plastic that work with plastic glue. Everything else is called "restic" or [something else], since they feel a bit like "plastic" but don't satisfy the most important condition.

PP's non-metal minis, whatever you want to call the material, have none of the advantages of plastic or metal, except for being light and having (softly detailed, mold line-riddled) undercuts.

The only material referred to as restic is resin/plastic hybrid material which PP is most certainly not. It's plastic, more accurately PVC. Most other companies use polystyrene, I different type of plastic.

When you buy some plastic cement, or if you have some now, look at the label. It will specifically say polystyrene cement. It's NOT what you need when bonding something not polystyrene. But that doesn't make those non polystyrene plastics and less plastic.

PP's plastic is indeed lacking quite a bit. I was happy with the end result of my cleaning, but not happy with the ridiculous amount of effort to get to that point.

A few months ago they did advertise a job opening for a new head of quality control with a list of duties that seemed to make it pretty clear the idea was to improve their plastics. No idea if the job has been filled or not yet - and even it has I'm sure it will take a good few months to really start seeing results.

Also - plastic glue is for suckers. Use super glue, on EVERYTHING.

Again, we are talking terminology in a specific field. In the context of miniatures, plastic refers to polystyrene or any other theoretical material that bonds with the most common plastic (polystyrene) cements on the market. People use the word as a shorthand because it is easy to say and conceptualize, and the meaning is crystal clear in context. Think of it as a nickname if you have to, but that's how the rest of humanity seems to work.

Now, as for PP's material... it feels a lot to me like the material Mantic calls restic. Is it actually different? Or is this just another case of sensible people coming up with an instantly-understandable catchall term to describe the class of nonmetal materials that are not traditional resin* yet won't work with plastic glue? Because, there should be a term for that.



*Yes, I know resin is technically a plastic, too, yet people keep calling it resin just because everyone across the industry can agree on that word.

 Flashman wrote:
For all of GWs problems, I don't think many would complain about the quality of their plastic kits (aside from a few fiddly bits which don't quite work).

I guess it depends on whether or not you consider the design of the model itself as part of the overall quality of the kit. I do, personally, so I often do complain about it.

PP's plastics are pretty bad though, I have to admit. I didn't used to think so but when I bought the plastic Retribution starter I was kinda put-off by how bad the warcaster looked in comparison to the photo on the box art. The studio model seemed to have much sharper detail than the one I was holding. I hesitate to say I felt "ripped off" but I was still kind of disappointed, and eventually just stored the box away somewhere and haven't touched it since.

Yeah bought the starter set but the models put me off, horrid mold lines, difficulty to clean up soft detail, and horrid posing and nearly impossible to pose individually.

not worth what they charge for what you get, yes GW is expensive but the kits and models are for the most part exceptional

Privateer Press quality is fairly low for what you pay for their models, and you generally have a choice between nightmarish-to-assemble metals or lackluster and ill-designed plastics. I can only suppose they've given up on trying to compete on terms of sculpt quality. Even most of their colossals are a pale imitation of the quality and detail of a similarly costed if not cheaper Dreamforge Leviathan.

Of course, since manyWarmachine players are hardcore tournament types, the aesthetic qualities of the game pieces becomes meaningless for an important subset of the hobby. I've known a fellow who would have gladly substituted his miniatures for featureless plastic pogs simply because they had nothing but contempt for the miniatures half of the game. He was just in it for the ruleset and competitive aspects.

Plastic mini's are the last thing of quality from GW. GW overall has worse quality than PP though since the Finecast fiasco.

 Harriticus wrote:
Plastic mini's are the last thing of quality from GW. GW overall has worse quality than PP though since the Finecast fiasco.

Besides the initial disaster of release, finecast for the most part was really good, the resin was much better than metal, but to say that GW has worse quality OVERALL due to a small part of their range being fine-cast, compared to PP which almost their entire range suffers from poor quality, is quite frankly silly