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So I think I've decided to settle down and play Imperial Fists. As most of you know, they excel at castling up and tearing through enemy lines.
Where I'm stuck is designing a 2k list on how to properly utilize these traits.

Things that must be in the list: (I'm short on funds and already have the models)
5 man sniper scouts
10 man tactical squad
Sternguard in a pod.

I was thinking of putting all of my troops in pods (save the scouts of course), maybe getting a fort, then a tank or two (looking at the Achilles since it's fluffy and my club allows it)

What would you all go for?

Also, please no CM on bike lists

You have made the right choice in starting down the path of the humble, no gimmicks, Space Marine army.

The 5 man Sniper Scouts, Tactical Squad, and Sternguard are all solid units that I use regularly. I would suggest that you consider using the drop pod for something other than a suicide Sternguard unit, but that is because I prefer using my Sternguard to shoot their special issue ammo and live for multiple rounds. The suicide pod is a battle proven tactic, however, if you choose that route.

I would disagree with you that the Imperial Fists are designed only for castling up. I think they are designed to be a no frills type army. One that puts Bolter weapons to good use and doesn't shy away from the fact that Space Marines excel at going head to head and grinding opponents into dust. The re-roll on Bolter weapons and Tank Hunters kind of reflects that they plan on blowing up the enemy armor and treating the enemy infantry to a healthy dose of holy Bolter rounds.

Now, as a player who started as a fluffhammer player, if you tell what it is about the fluff that really draws you in and what you can get excited about, I can be more helpful in suggesting a list that would perform on the field and still be fun for you.

Some basic tactical concepts to consider for a standard Space Marine:

-Tactical squads really benefit from mobility and transportation. Rhinos are as good as it gets for this purpose. Your Rhino might spend some games just driving around and shooting its Storm Bolter, but other games it will be worth its weight in gold and get your squad where it needs to go in a hurry, it is an indispensable tool for a Marine and ubiquitous to Tactical Marines from a fluff standpoint. I always, always, always take these; 35pts well spent.

-Troops are important, but are only really effective at fighting other troops. Your Tactical Marines and Scouts are not the great fighters that fluff would have you believe (this was very hard for me to accept when I changed from fluff fan to tabletop player). The majority of 40k game scenarios are objective based so you need to have an adequate number of troops on the board. Don't make the mistake of thinking that you can give Troops anti armor weapons and sending them after tanks. They are meant to hold objectives and shoot other troops. End of story. Weapon choices will vary with the composition of your list, but generally expect to give them a Plasma Gun and maybe a heavy weapon and have them shoot at other infantry. Don't forget that their number one job is to survive and get you objective points.. I really cannot stress that enough.

-Your troops need support. Heavy Support, Fast Attack, and Elite slots are where you can expect your major killing power to come from.

-We (Space Marines) generally are no good in melee. Assault Marines, Vanguard Vets, and Jump Pack Independent Characters (HQ's) can work in a list if you account for their weaknesses and play them with tactical proficiency, but generally TH/SS Terminators are the most foolproof melee unit we have. Non-Terminator assault troops require a greater level of tactics and are harder to implement effectively. (I can expound on this if you are interested in melee combat, I use Assault Marines and Jump Pack Characters to great effect)

-Armor is something that Space Marines kind of need. Our greatest defense is presenting an enemy with 10+ units that can do them great harm. They just won't know what to shoot at. Armor saturation is one of you greatest friends if you venture down the armor route (which you should).

-On Heavy Support: You can either run Predators or Vindicators. End of Story. These two tanks perform very different tasks and fit into a very different army scheme and strategy.

-Vindicators are the Gladiators of the tabletop. They own the 6-24 inch bubble. Strength 10 AP2 Large Blasts are something very rare in Warhammer 40k. There is nothing in the game (aside from flyers and Monstrous Creatures) who will not loathe the thought of entering that 24 inch bubble. They have their weaknesses (24" range, AV13/11/10), but then again, no unit in 40k is perfect and their weaknesses can be overcome by a quality commander. If you like the idea of psychological warfare and being able to exercise the most quintessential of Space Marine virtues (The virtue of: .....Here I am......I have come to kill you......), then Vindicators are for you.

-Predators. I don't use them, so other players might give better advice on them, but they are a great unit for what they can provide. Give them a TL-LC main turret and LC sponsons and you have an anti-armor/elite beast. Give them and AC and HB sponsons and you have a strong anti-horde unit. Give them an AC turret and LC sponsons and you have a good multipurpose unit. Predators are for the commander who wants to pump maximum long ranged firepower.

I feel like I have already begun to ramble so I will cut this (relatively) short.

Think about how you want to play the game.

Do you want to sit back and shoot your enemies, or get into close range and fight them hand to hand, or maybe get into medium range and shoot them to bits while having a mix of units able to fight in close combat or send rounds down range?

Let me know what strikes a chord with you and we can go from there.

I must say, an IF list without Lysander in a hammernators squad would be disapointing. He kind of embodies the chapter.

 Seb wrote:
I must say, an IF list without Lysander in a hammernators squad would be disapointing. He kind of embodies the chapter.

While he embodies the stubborn and tough as nails aspects of the ‘fists, he runs counter to their iconic playstyle. Imperial Fists are a siege gunline army. While having a CC counter-charge or spearhead -can- be part of that, it is not required. Now that we don’t need to use special characters to define who we are, I think we can ease back on the big guy.

In the nature of full discloser, I’m not a fan of special characters in general. A lot of them are massive point sinks, and I’d rather people make their own stories with their own characters. YMMV.

I have been thinking and planning through how to get maximum effectiveness out of the models I have and like you, focus heavily on the troops. Right now I am leaning towards 4-6 8 man tactical squads, half mounted in rhinos. Meltaguns in the rhinos, plasma guns on foot. I've done 10 man squads with special/heavy and combat squaded, but I think a few extra marines on a objective can hold a little longer. 5x8= 40, 4x10=40, but with the 5 tactical squads I have more flexibility and if the squad gets wiped there is another waiting to go.

Honestly if your planning on going a full drop pod army you can do it with imperial fists but salamanders are a much better choice.

vulkan (attached to a sternguard squad)

2 sternguard squads in pods (mix of combi-flamers/meltas & heavy flamers)

4 tactical squads in pods (combi-melta, melta gun, mutli-melta)

and 1-2 support units of your choice (stormtalons / ironclad dreads in pods / maybe that unit of scouts for backfield scoring)

Its a pretty solid army and fun to play, make sure every sgt has a combi for the mastercrafted and your good to go.

You could do something similar with drop pods and imperial fists but sallies do it better.


If not full drop pods you could go rhino rush tacticals (around 4 tactical squads with MG/MM) backed by 3 vindicators, a sternguard squad in a drop pod (for first blood), and maybe 1-2 stormtalons for anti-air.

 UltraTacSgt wrote:

You have made the right choice in starting down the path of the humble, no gimmicks, Space Marine army.

The 5 man Sniper Scouts, Tactical Squad, and Sternguard are all solid units that I use regularly. I would suggest that you consider using the drop pod for something other than a suicide Sternguard unit, but that is because I prefer using my Sternguard to shoot their special issue ammo and live for multiple rounds. The suicide pod is a battle proven tactic, however, if you choose that route.

I would disagree with you that the Imperial Fists are designed only for castling up. I think they are designed to be a no frills type army. One that puts Bolter weapons to good use and doesn't shy away from the fact that Space Marines excel at going head to head and grinding opponents into dust. The re-roll on Bolter weapons and Tank Hunters kind of reflects that they plan on blowing up the enemy armor and treating the enemy infantry to a healthy dose of holy Bolter rounds.

Now, as a player who started as a fluffhammer player, if you tell what it is about the fluff that really draws you in and what you can get excited about, I can be more helpful in suggesting a list that would perform on the field and still be fun for you.

Some basic tactical concepts to consider for a standard Space Marine:

-Tactical squads really benefit from mobility and transportation. Rhinos are as good as it gets for this purpose. Your Rhino might spend some games just driving around and shooting its Storm Bolter, but other games it will be worth its weight in gold and get your squad where it needs to go in a hurry, it is an indispensable tool for a Marine and ubiquitous to Tactical Marines from a fluff standpoint. I always, always, always take these; 35pts well spent.

-Troops are important, but are only really effective at fighting other troops. Your Tactical Marines and Scouts are not the great fighters that fluff would have you believe (this was very hard for me to accept when I changed from fluff fan to tabletop player). The majority of 40k game scenarios are objective based so you need to have an adequate number of troops on the board. Don't make the mistake of thinking that you can give Troops anti armor weapons and sending them after tanks. They are meant to hold objectives and shoot other troops. End of story. Weapon choices will vary with the composition of your list, but generally expect to give them a Plasma Gun and maybe a heavy weapon and have them shoot at other infantry. Don't forget that their number one job is to survive and get you objective points.. I really cannot stress that enough.

-Your troops need support. Heavy Support, Fast Attack, and Elite slots are where you can expect your major killing power to come from.

-We (Space Marines) generally are no good in melee. Assault Marines, Vanguard Vets, and Jump Pack Independent Characters (HQ's) can work in a list if you account for their weaknesses and play them with tactical proficiency, but generally TH/SS Terminators are the most foolproof melee unit we have. Non-Terminator assault troops require a greater level of tactics and are harder to implement effectively. (I can expound on this if you are interested in melee combat, I use Assault Marines and Jump Pack Characters to great effect)

-Armor is something that Space Marines kind of need. Our greatest defense is presenting an enemy with 10+ units that can do them great harm. They just won't know what to shoot at. Armor saturation is one of you greatest friends if you venture down the armor route (which you should).

-On Heavy Support: You can either run Predators or Vindicators. End of Story. These two tanks perform very different tasks and fit into a very different army scheme and strategy.

-Vindicators are the Gladiators of the tabletop. They own the 6-24 inch bubble. Strength 10 AP2 Large Blasts are something very rare in Warhammer 40k. There is nothing in the game (aside from flyers and Monstrous Creatures) who will not loathe the thought of entering that 24 inch bubble. They have their weaknesses (24" range, AV13/11/10), but then again, no unit in 40k is perfect and their weaknesses can be overcome by a quality commander. If you like the idea of psychological warfare and being able to exercise the most quintessential of Space Marine virtues (The virtue of: .....Here I am......I have come to kill you......), then Vindicators are for you.

-Predators. I don't use them, so other players might give better advice on them, but they are a great unit for what they can provide. Give them a TL-LC main turret and LC sponsons and you have an anti-armor/elite beast. Give them and AC and HB sponsons and you have a strong anti-horde unit. Give them an AC turret and LC sponsons and you have a good multipurpose unit. Predators are for the commander who wants to pump maximum long ranged firepower.

I feel like I have already begun to ramble so I will cut this (relatively) short.

Think about how you want to play the game.

Do you want to sit back and shoot your enemies, or get into close range and fight them hand to hand, or maybe get into medium range and shoot them to bits while having a mix of units able to fight in close combat or send rounds down range?

Let me know what strikes a chord with you and we can go from there.

You forgot about the incredibly awesome tank hunter devastators of the fists! As an ultramarine player I love running devastators for their Swiss army approach to ranged death and with fists it gets even better. You can take lascannons for guaranteed armor destruction or you can even opt out for a balanced missile variety. Normally missiles are meh against tanks but tank hunters really allows you more flexibility. Heck you can even field heavy bolter devs for extreme rate of fire and even some light vehicle or flyer killing (rerolling 1s AND armor pen!) But wait theres more. Plasma cannons are guaranteed to murder everything on the board barring AV 14. Devs behind a defence line are far more resilient than any tank these days and you can take extra bodies to soak up wounds. Plus to top it off what's more imperial fists then a bunch of marines with heavy weapons in cover blasting anything that moves?

 Whereswaldo wrote:
Honestly if your planning on going a full drop pod army you can do it with imperial fists but salamanders are a much better choice.

vulkan (attached to a sternguard squad)

2 sternguard squads in pods (mix of combi-flamers/meltas & heavy flamers)

4 tactical squads in pods (combi-melta, melta gun, mutli-melta)

and 1-2 support units of your choice (stormtalons / ironclad dreads in pods / maybe that unit of scouts for backfield scoring)

Its a pretty solid army and fun to play, make sure every sgt has a combi for the mastercrafted and your good to go.

You could do something similar with drop pods and imperial fists but sallies do it better.


If not full drop pods you could go rhino rush tacticals (around 4 tactical squads with MG/MM) backed by 3 vindicators, a sternguard squad in a drop pod (for first blood), and maybe 1-2 stormtalons for anti-air.

I like the look of this. But how would you fit Vulkan in pod with sternguard? Pods are only 10 models, or are you talking a 9 man SG + Vulkan?

To expand on some of the above points:

The advice to use Preds or Vindis for HS is good, but don't discount the TFC. They ruin hordes, the techmarine can bolster a ruin in your deployment zone (great for the scouts to hide in) and they are also pretty cheap in the grand scheme of things.

With tactical squads, I'd advise going with the full 10 men, and either a Rhino or a Pod. Pods are more aggressive, Rhinos excel at playing a more reactive role as you can quickly redeploy. A mix of both can work (I'm using a 3:2 Rhino-pod list at the moment to great effect) if you want a more rounded army, but in general focus is better than versatility. In terms of armament, I'd give each Tac squad a special and heavy weapon. You can combat squad if needed, or keep them whole, depending on whether you want to force target priority issues and have greater scoring power, or keep them whole to better concentrate force and deny Kill Points. Make sure the special and heavy have the same role (ie Melta+Lascannon for AT, Flamer+HB for anti-infantry) for the occasions where you do want to keep them whole. If you've got the points, throwing a Combi on the Sgt is always handy.

For some fluffy IF choices, Hammernators are great as a siege-themed line-breacher unit, and do work well with Lysander or any other CC character. Chaplains greatly improve their efficiency. Ironclad Dreadnaughts work very well as a Drop Pod Alpha-strike, able to use a melta or a Heavy Flamer on the drop, and after that can cut open any tank with ease. Just watch out for hidden power fists and meltaguns.

If you're looking for a super-fluffy idea, then perhaps it's worth looking at the Siege Assault Vanguard list from Forge World: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/S/Siege_Assault_Van.pdf

This list has a few restrictions (no bikes, have to take a compulsory HS slot, limited Drop Pod usage) but you get a bunch of options that would suit IF, like Siege Mantlets for Tactical Squads (shields that let you re-roll saves- makes a Tac squad tough as nails), squadroned Dreads and vehicles, and a don't lose the ability to take any of the Codex: SM special characters like Lysander should you want to. I've not played this myself, but it looks fun and would suit a Siege-themed IF list very nicely I think. It's free as well, so there's nothing to lose in trying it once or twice.

Since you want to use podded sternguards anyway, consider using Pedro Kantor as your HQ. Just paint him yellow and call him Vladimir Pugh. Get a second sternguard pod and an Honor Guard in a pod and you've got a scary alpha strike that is mostly scoring. Add in some devastators behind an aegis for anti-tank support. The devs' tankhunter works with the quad gun so it'll help you deal with the dreaded Heldrake as well as being fluffy.

ya 1 sternguard pod with 9 guys and vulkan for the sally list (instead of taking the extra heavy flamer take him), if your going full drop pods I would suggest salamanders for the twin-link alpha strike over the other chapters (although IF could make it work with bolter drill and tank hunters)

pedro is good but for a majority sternguard list not majority tactical

 Whereswaldo wrote:
ya 1 sternguard pod with 9 guys and vulkan for the sally list (instead of taking the extra heavy flamer take him), if your going full drop pods I would suggest salamanders for the twin-link alpha strike over the other chapters (although IF could make it work with bolter drill and tank hunters)

pedro is good but for a majority sternguard list not majority tactical

So that pod of Vulkan + 9 SG would be a single squad running flamers? So the melta pod guys fire first, popping the transports and then the Vulkan squad roasts the troops that were inside?

Can you have Vulkan+4 SG as one unit and the other 5 man SG unit as separate combat squads? its just nice being able to split the fire sometimes.

Sorry for the nooby questions^^

You could go different ways

I would go

vulkan + 9 sg kitted out with combi flamers and 1 heavy flamer for one squad (to protect your warlord with bodies)

10 sg with all combimeltas, a mix of combis, and possibly heavy flamers just depends on what your looking at doing ... 10 melta or 5 melta and 5 plasma as separate combat squads (since you can split them as they come out of the drop pod) works pretty well and can net you first blood

as far as deployment order it really just depends on what your facing and how the enemy deploys.

I run a custom chapter so I swap around different chapter tactics (mostly white scars or salamanders - they started off a dark angels) its fairly easy to convert a "counts as" special characters and it doesnt limit you if you want to try different army strategies because of paint color.