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I agree there is that, but I'm just a bit leery of how often we will see lists with double and triple mix and match of 1300's and 2400's together y'know? I'm just more in love with the dogfight aspect of the game. Dumb as it sounds, I've seriously only played my Falcon once so far because I just like using small, linear fire, fighter ships more. I guess I'm going to have to fix that.

I fly the Falcon pretty often and just love pushing that tank into TIEs.

 Peregrine wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Attack Wing has 6 already (I believe) with more on the way. A third faction would be good, a fourth would be awesome (Yuuzhan Vong starships? There is actually enough source material to make it work).

Strongly disagree with this. One of the reasons why X-Wing is such a good game is that it has two factions with their own clear identities. Adding more factions just for the sake of having more factions, especially when they're drawn from awful EU sources, would probably blur those lines and make the game a lot less interesting. I'd much rather see FFG focus on making its two core factions as good as they can be.

I agree with timetowaste85. I dislike playing against the faction I'm playing as. I always hated it in tournaments when I'd come across another Dark Elf or Dark Eldar player... even if their list was very different from mine.

If they just had a 3rd faction, I'd probably choose X-Wing over Star Trek. I'm much more a SW fan than a ST one. However, my hatred of mirror matches overpowers my universe preference. I recognize and appreciate the game design FF is doing, but the game just doesn't interest me yet.

I'll probably eventually get some X-Wing stuff (I really like the Tie Interceptors), but it's low on my list.

While it may not be an issue for Peregrine, I think it's a common one for gaming groups. In any discussion about X-Wing for STAW, it's pretty much the main advantage everyone says STAW has. In some groups it's more important than others. I don't claim to know the best way to implement a new faction, or what the best choice would even be... it's just something I would like to see.

As you yourself mention, having multiple factions does not eliminate mirror matches. Certainly adding one more faction is not going to dramatically reduce your chances of a mirror match especially given that Imps and Rebs would likely be more popular over time than a Fringer faction.

That said, my gaming is 90% thematics and 10% competitive. If my opponent wants to fly Rebs then I will fly Imps, and vice versa, because I don't care for mirror matches purely as a matter of narrative. Mechanically, however, I think mirror matches are pretty interesting.

I am strongly against CW ships in this game.

If they released a new faction now, and if it was balanced, then everyone would hop to it. The mirroring would happen even more often. If they expand I would like to see two factions pop up. That way any ship hopping would at least survive a while longer.

Alternatively I'd like to see a different scenario for winning with one of the factions. Maybe they start with less points, but earn points for duration they survive. I'm no game designer so I'll leave it up to FFG to bring the a game.

 Manchu wrote:
I don't know if you were counting me or not but I agree with Peregrine about strongly opposing including it or any other CW-era military ship. I'm just being realistic about my own attitude toward collecting when I admit that I'd buy one or two if it did come out, as I'm sure other SW fans would. There is a big difference, however, between thinking about this as a toy collector and thinking about it as a gamer or someone interested in game design or someone interested in the success of the game's design in terms of product line development.

I would also like to ensure that I'm in the "Strongly against the ARC" category. My theoryhammer stats were simply created in an attempt to have a concept for the ship that wasn't an accidental strawman.

 Theophony wrote:
If they released a new faction now, and if it was balanced, then everyone would hop to it. The mirroring would happen even more often. If they expand I would like to see two factions pop up. That way any ship hopping would at least survive a while longer.

As long as FF can maintain the quality of models and balance of rules, then I think the more factions the better. However, figuring out what those factions could be would be hard. Especially if they are planning on keeping the timeline relatively narrow. I trust FF though. I'm a casual (meaning havn't expanded much from the starter sets) fan of both Netrunner and AGoT. I know they have very good games designers.

I'm still watching this game and may pick up 2 starter sets to play with my family... where I know I'm the only one that would want to play Empire. It looks like my friends are going for Star Trek though.

I'm not as much an expert on the EU as some of y'all seem to be, but is there a more natural third faction than the Yuuzhan Vong? And if they did expand that way (which, I think introducing a third faction is much more natural and wise than splitting the game to accommodate different eras) what kind of design space would we expect that to explore?

By the way, if you are counting votes, I am neutral/don't care about the ARC-170, but I am 100% opposed to splitting the game into eras, which would essentially kill the whole thing.

Oh man! There's an upset! I think that flipped the vote but I'm about to head out the door so I'll re-tab it fully later. I don't know what to count tomjoads vote as, I think you were tabbed as neutral initially any way bro but we might want to redefine the poll question as something less specific as just the ARC to make sure your counted. 3-1-4 is the tally now at least if not 2-1-4. Now it's getting interesting. Wish we could put it up as a poll on dakka. But I don't want to derail this from the new/revisit topic of Factions. Which could be another poll all together. I am a little sad that it flipped but hey, I'm learning a lot of us nerd/geeks just dont want to be happy in this game and many others. Gak damn we're an oppinionated bunch

KnuckleWolf wrote:
Wish we could put it up as a poll on dakka.

By all means, start a new thread with a poll. I would do it but I refuse to endure the abuse over how the question and answers are phrased.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 tomjoad wrote:
I am 100% opposed to splitting the game into eras, which would essentially kill the whole thing.

How so?

 Manchu wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 tomjoad wrote:
I am 100% opposed to splitting the game into eras, which would essentially kill the whole thing.

How so?

At this point, at the size X-Wing currently is, it would split the player base too much. If I went to my LFGS and tried to get a game using some Interceptors and a Firespray, but the only other player there wanted a game using his Jedi Starfighters...what, no game? I'd prefer to just toss the fluff out and let CW-era ships fight evenly with GCW ships if it came to that and leave it be as a single game (I'm not saying I WANT that to happen, just that it's preferable to making them two separate games).

At some point down the road, if this keeps growing the way it has, I think adding a capital ship version of the game along the lines of BFG would make sense, and making a Warmahordes style split where all the ships CAN fight each other all using the same rules makes sense. But a split a la WHFB/WH40K where it's two distinct rules sets would be tantamount to suicide by FFG.

I totally disagree except to the extent that a CW game needs to be substantially different from X-Wing, as in completely non-interchangeable.

Well then, now I'm curious to hear your reasoning. Is it due to wanting to stay true to the fluff? Do you think the community is big enough to handle that split? Are there some circumstances/conditions that would need to occur before that happened, or would you be in favor of FFG doing that as soon as they were able?

Well, I basically think it should be a different game. In fact, I think any CW miniatures game should either focus on capital ship combat or ground combat. Fighter-based space superiority seems like more of a GCW-era thing.

Ok... Here's my list of ships and a ranking (1= least, 10=dead certainty) of how likely I feel that FFG will make them for the X-Wing Game:
*Note... I have some casual knowledge of the EU, but stopped keeping up after the number of authors bloomed out of control in the late 90's. If your favorite ship isn't listed, it's most likely because I don't know much about it and can't judge.

Assumptions:
#1. FFG will keep with the current level of tech and ships usable during the Galactic Civil War.
#2. FFG will keep the fighter level ships to scale with each other... capital ships will not be to scale, but will be the smaller ones... in their 'epic' games

Star Destroyers (of all varieties) 2
SD's are just too big to play with... even with the reduced scale of the capital ships seen so far.

Mon Calmari Cruisers 2
Same as SD's above.

Nebula B Frigates 8
These smaller frigates are roughly (very roughly) the same size as the capital ships we've seen. They are also served many roles, and thus would have interesting game play.

Vanity Ships, such as Wild Karrde, Lady Luck, or Outrider 6
While all of these are cool, they don't offer significantly different game play than the YT-1300... and are less iconic.

Bounty Hunter Ships 6
Like the Vanity ships above, they don't offer different game play than the Firespray... and are less iconic.

Arc 170 8
I'd like to imagine the Arc 170 as a 2 seat X-Wing for the Imperials... There is design space for a 2 seat fighter, or as some has said... a capitol ship killer.

Skipray Blast Boat 8
If we see an Arc 170, we should see Skipray Blast Boats as well for very much the same reasons.

Jedi Starfighter, Naboo N-1, Clone Ships, and Droid Fighters 2
I only think that these will come if they release it as a separate game or era... I don't see them playable against X-Wings and Ties.

Y-Tie Uglies 1
They are ugly. They don't open new play styles, and they are ugly.


I do see them releasing additional factions.
First... I think that it is likely that they will introduce a neutral faction... in the form of pilot cards for planetary defense forces, smugglers, and merchants who use current ship models. Z-95's, HWK-290's, YT-1300, and Firespray's are primed for that treatment. I can imagine these being introduced as repaints... like the Imperial Aces and Rebel Aces packs.

Secondly, I'd really like them to introduce the Vong forces. Not only are their ships completely different than the machines that we know, but they have battles with both the New Republic and the Imperial Remnant. There would be totally new technologies and upgrade cards. It could even introduce a different pilot mechanic. Possibly, very very cool.

Thank you. I'm glad I'm not the only one pushing for Vong ships. Plus, bio-weapons would be fun to add in.

Add in "hit by a moon" as a damage card-the only critical that Chewie can suffer.

I'd vote for alternate large imperial ships just because while I like the firespray on a gameplay level, it's as ugly as sin so I will never own it. Some people may also feel that way about the YT, so an alternative would not be totally unwarranted on both sides.

 tomjoad wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 tomjoad wrote:
I am 100% opposed to splitting the game into eras, which would essentially kill the whole thing.

How so?

At this point, at the size X-Wing currently is, it would split the player base too much. If I went to my LFGS and tried to get a game using some Interceptors and a Firespray, but the only other player there wanted a game using his Jedi Starfighters...what, no game? I'd prefer to just toss the fluff out and let CW-era ships fight evenly with GCW ships if it came to that and leave it be as a single game (I'm not saying I WANT that to happen, just that it's preferable to making them two separate games).

At some point down the road, if this keeps growing the way it has, I think adding a capital ship version of the game along the lines of BFG would make sense, and making a Warmahordes style split where all the ships CAN fight each other all using the same rules makes sense. But a split a la WHFB/WH40K where it's two distinct rules sets would be tantamount to suicide by FFG.

I watched a game of Klingons versus imperial for about three seconds, wasn't as fun as I thought. A cw versus gcw game would be the same to me.

Naboo N-1? Adding the single fighter from a single world used in a single conflict before the Clone wars even started would be kinda strange.

There are at least 4 types of Clone fighters that I can think of off the top of my head. The N-1 needn't be there.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Naboo N-1? Adding the single fighter from a single world used in a single conflict before the Clone wars even started would be kinda strange.

There are at least 4 types of Clone fighters that I can think of off the top of my head. The N-1 needn't be there.

Normally, I'd agree with you but what people remember of star-fighters in the first movie was Anakin in the N-1. If they do a Clone Wars installment (I still think it will not be fully compatible with X-Wing) we will get them.

Just thinking out loud - for adding different 'factions', they could always do themed boxes - Naboo planetary defence force, tatooine security patrol etc. a bit like the infinity sectoral boxes. Not saying I want them to go down that route, but it'd be a way of scratching that faction itch, while introducing some of the more obscure stuff.

Eeeeww, Vong, gross. Count me out. How do you even do upgrades for those? They are bio-tech right? Can I put them on an X-wing or TIE? This makes about as much sense to me as adding CW era pieces did to the rest of you. Have to say they(the Vong) are the worst thing that ever happened to the EU. Wait...You'll agree to go an entire era FORWARD in EU, but the actual canon era BACKWARD is out? I'm lost right?

I have to say I really like the Naboo ships. All of them. A little retro, sleek, nice to look at. A "Queens Gambit" box that had two N-1's would be pretty swank.

P.S. I would start a poll but A.) Can't figure out how to punch it in, haven't played with the thing yet, and B.) After this gak storm I don't see what a whole new thread is going to accomplish by putting all the same gak through the fan again. Haha

KnuckleWolf,
Here's my rational for the Vong: Both the Empire and New Republic fight them with the ships that are in game already... X-Wings, E-Wings and Tie Interceptors (ie, basically the same level of tech, which can't be said for the ships of CW).. They would help the game reach the Walkin Mandate of 4 factions in a wargame.
Would Vong ships present a problem? Yes... how do you have named characters? Everything about them would be faction specific, bio-weapons and elite pilot talents included.

I'm not against CW ships in the game... I like the idea of Arc-170's for instance. But how many of the basic Droid fighters do you want to buy to play at 100? If Academy Tie's are 12 points, wouldn't droid fighters be 6 or 8 points? How would the game play if you had 12-16 ships on your side? You lose so much maneuver room. I'm sure that I would throw up my hands in the air with frustration playing such a list. If they do go to the CW, it almost has to be with a point system that makes it non-comparable with the current game.

PS... I would totally buy your 'A Queen's Gambit" box that has two N-1's and a J-Type 327 Nubian... just for all the shiny, shiny ships.

The Vong... I have to agree with KnuckleWolf. I would rather see clone wars stuff.

Same here, it's the lesser of two evil. Happily, FFG is unlikely to do either if their current release choices are anything to go by.

True... I fully expect FFG to tap into whichever ships appear in the new trilogy. That will probably trump either CW or Vong War.

And, again, SW Rebels will be out soon.

Looks like a modified YT-2000... cool.

Take a look at those larger ships behind it (in the second pic), too. Maybe a large Imp ship for X-Wing?