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Well what do you want from Blood Angels in 6th Edition?

Well I ma starting this mostly because of my Space Wolf thread of a Similar thread and I want to head off the How to fix the Blood Angels discussion that is trying to start up.
Now I am a Space Wolf Player mostly, but I do play Blood Angels here and there. This is what I would like to see.

>All of the units get brought in line with Codex Space Marines.
>Giving Missile Launchers Flakk Missiles
>Assault Squads getting the option taking a Special Melee Weapon or Special Ranged Weapons per 5 Models.

That is about it right now, now I want to hear what you think.

An almost unilateral points drop.

Something to give their AS a small edge in CC with other MEQ

Some sort of new shiny, but then that's a given, so let's go for a new shiny that is worth taking, but not so good as to have people throwing me dirty looks when I do.

I would even be ok with Tactical Squads getting a CCW.

As I have stated before, I don't even know what would be a) fair and b) balanced in a game of Taudar. Sure, I could wish for +1 init again, but Taudar don't care.

It's bad, but I want two models DROPPED from BA. Sanguinary priests and the Sanguinor. Priests are a tax on the army and the Sanguinor is just stupid.

Tacs won't get CC weapons because BA foolishly follow codex Astartes. They'll be as useless as ever.

I would sugest ignoring the Taudar for this. This should be about what you want to make this a fair ballance Codex, not one to beat Taudar.

Balanced against what, then, if not Taudar? Necrons? C:SM? Sisters?

Dropping the priest tax and getting an HQ choice in place of Sanguinor that does something would be a good start. I can better articulate what needs to go than what needs to stay.

And make the DC usable. Maybe give them..........counterattack! And not have 15 pt jump packs.

I would like to see an overall points drop.

I would like new models for dante, and mephiston, as I hate the old ones ( just a personal thing )

And something to either protect or get arriving assault troops into combat, without being butchered first.

Martel732 wrote:
Balanced against what, then, if not Taudar? Necrons? C:SM? Sisters?

Your choices are to honest to either have one balanced against every other Codex or something really overpowered.
And yes I agree the Taudar is very OP, Tau or Eldar by them selves are very Powerful.

Dropping the priest tax and getting an HQ choice in place of Sanguinor that does something would be a good start. I can better articulate what needs to go than what needs to stay.

Priest Tax? They are Requred like 1 HQ and 2 Troop Choices?

And make the DC usable. Maybe give them..........counterattack! And not have 15 pt jump packs.

I was thinking something like Rending myself.
And of course a points drop.

No, not rending. Not yet another unit that makes armor pointless. If you don't fix the spoiling assault problem with DC, you don't fix them. Oh, and get them out of the troop slot. They don't belong there b/c they don't score. Might as well be honest about them.

I call it the priest tax if you want to get access to FNP and FC. If you aren't using FNP for your infantry lists, why play BA at all? I'd like for BA to have it built in like IH.

I don't see them dropping a unit because it's "bad" because they reintroduced an old character who hadn't been in the game since 3rd Ed for Dark Angels who is just an abysmally awful HQ. Sometimes they like leaving in bad, but fluffy HQs. And it's a cool model, so whatever.

Besides all the stuff you guys have mentioned (I agree with all of it), I hope they get some sort of flyer that's Blood Angels only, and it's total beastmode. They are supposed to be the chapter that's all about air superiority and high-flying shenanigans so I'd like to see that reflected in the table-top now that Storm Ravens are a ubiquitous Space Marine unit.

Less wargear with Blood in it.

Ability for an elite assault based unit that can assault flyers.

 SRSFACE wrote:
I don't see them dropping a unit because it's "bad" because they reintroduced an old character who hadn't been in the game since 3rd Ed for Dark Angels who is just an abysmally awful HQ. Sometimes they like leaving in bad, but fluffy HQs. And it's a cool model, so whatever.

Besides all the stuff you guys have mentioned (I agree with all of it), I hope they get some sort of flyer that's Blood Angels only, and it's total beastmode. They are supposed to be the chapter that's all about air superiority and high-flying shenanigans so I'd like to see that reflected in the table-top now that Storm Ravens are a ubiquitous Space Marine unit.

If it's like the 5th ed Stormraven, I'll pass.

Well so far ever Codex has changed the Death Company and what they are, so I am expecting another change.
Take them out of FOC in some way:
>One per HQ
>One per Priest

I am going just throw some things out there:
>Make them Cheaper
>Leave the Black Rage alone
>Relentless
>Feel No Pain
All of there I feel would be appropriate as other posiblities:
>Counter Attack?
>Crusader?
>Flesh Bane on the Assault?
>Hammer of Wrath even without Jump Packs?
>Hatred?
>Replace Rage with Rampage?
>Shred?
>Zealot?

How about giving Death Company Jump Packs standard? Considering Vanguard Veterans aren't that good at 22 PPM, Death Company with Jump Packs at 20 PPM might actually achieve something.

This thread just can not evade the Taudar. If you make an assault element capable of withstanding their firepower, it's not fair against other lists. If you can't withstand their firepower, you aren't an effective assault element if you need to assault them.

I suspect BA will be the latter.

If you absolutely don't want to discuss Taudar, just insert "grav cents". Or "flying croissant spam". Or "GK shenanigans".

My issue with making this about TauDar is that They are the problem, not the Blood Angels and for that fact any MEQ.
The only fixes would make the Blood Angles the next TauDar army.

Invulnerable Saves: Dark Angels tan take them like no tomorrow and it has not saved them.
Psychic Powers: I have not heard of Space Wolves or Grey Knights Shutting them down.
Feel No Pain: Is not working for Blood Angels so that is not the answer.

So I am not saying don’t bring them up, just don’t make them the focus for everything.

Let's narrow it down, then. How to make BA competitive against say, SW and Necrons. These two lists provide very different problems to overcome.

Martel732 wrote:
Let's narrow it down, then. How to make BA competitive against say, SW and Necrons. These two lists provide very different problems to overcome.

Exactly what I am try to get to.

The other thing I has found is to focus on one or two units at a time, Death Company came up and some sugestions were made. Let's go from there.

What I want to see BA get: a chapter tactics entry and special character or two in C:SM, and no more BA codex. Now you've instantly made BA as competitive as any other marine army, and removed yet another redundant codex from the game.

A bit late for that. GW passed on the chance so they can sell a boat load more $60 books.

Martel732 wrote:
A bit late for that. GW passed on the chance so they can sell a boat load more $60 books.

Well yeah, but this is a thread about what we want to see, not what we expect GW to do.

I'm still having quantifying want I even want. Line between "no better than BA currently are" and "TFG wishlight" seems very thin with the current meta.

As above, I want them and all other marine variant codices rolled into the C:SM book so that all marine armies are updated at once. Rules wise... I don't play Blood Angels but here are some changes I think need to happen.

They need to be cheaper, Tac squads need some sort of buff, Jump infantry need to be able to assault after deep striking/coming from reserves, their assault units need to have better FNP or higher toughness and they need better choppy options.

As I posted here:http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/579432.page

We can make a few logical conclusion about the new BA codex.

FIrst of all. We can expect them to get a point cost reduction. (( Why? Because it was done in both the DA and C:SM codex))
Second: They will probably get Flak missiles (( again because both DA and C:SM got it))
Third: They probably will gain access to the Hunter/Stalker

Anything else I could say would be pure guesses on my part.

 Peregrine wrote:
What I want to see BA get: a chapter tactics entry and special character or two in C:SM, and no more BA codex. Now you've instantly made BA as competitive as any other marine army, and removed yet another redundant codex from the game.

Came here to say this, but I was beaten to the punch.

 Blacksails wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
What I want to see BA get: a chapter tactics entry and special character or two in C:SM, and no more BA codex. Now you've instantly made BA as competitive as any other marine army, and removed yet another redundant codex from the game.

Came here to say this, but I was beaten to the punch.

well I am in the opposite Camp. I think Every Army Faction should get their own Codex.

Unless 6.5 ed makes some pretty sweeping changes to make assault more viable, Blood Angels are kind of screwed, no matter what changes we can realistically expect... y'know, unless they get some sort of combo that gives everyone 2+ rerollable FNP or something.

 Anpu42 wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
What I want to see BA get: a chapter tactics entry and special character or two in C:SM, and no more BA codex. Now you've instantly made BA as competitive as any other marine army, and removed yet another redundant codex from the game.

Came here to say this, but I was beaten to the punch.

well I am in the opposite Camp. I think Every Army Faction should get their own Codex.

Codex Cadians
Codex Mordians
Codex Catachan
Codex Steel Legion
Codex Death Korps
Codex Tallarn
Codex Praetorian

Which is only scratching the surface for 'factions' in the IG.

Codex Every Individual Craftworld (over half a dozen)
Codex Evil Suns
Codex Goffs
Codex Bad Moons
Codex Death Skulls
Codex Snakebites
Codex Blood Axes

Codex Every single Tyranid Hivefleet (another half dozen?)

Codex Every first founding Legion
Codex every second founding legion

Is that what you meant by every faction? Because if BA count as a faction, then every single other marine chapter (of renown) should have their own codex, as well as the codices I list above.

 Blacksails wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
What I want to see BA get: a chapter tactics entry and special character or two in C:SM, and no more BA codex. Now you've instantly made BA as competitive as any other marine army, and removed yet another redundant codex from the game.

Came here to say this, but I was beaten to the punch.

well I am in the opposite Camp. I think Every Army Faction should get their own Codex.

Codex Cadians
Codex Mordians
Codex Catachan
Codex Steel Legion
Codex Death Korps
Codex Tallarn
Codex Praetorian

Which is only scratching the surface for 'factions' in the IG.

Codex Every Individual Craftworld (over half a dozen)
Codex Evil Suns
Codex Goffs
Codex Bad Moons
Codex Death Skulls
Codex Snakebites
Codex Blood Axes

Codex Every single Tyranid Hivefleet (another half dozen?)

Codex Every first founding Legion
Codex every second founding legion

Is that what you meant by every faction? Because if BA count as a faction, then every single other marine chapter (of renown) should have their own codex, as well as the codices I list above.

Yeup

 Anpu42 wrote:

Yeup

Well I'll at least applaud your consistency, but not your concept of game design.

That list above would far too crazy and over the top to ever function.

But that's why I support molding all the marine codices (that all play fundamentally the same anyways and share the overwhelming majority of identical units anyways) into one so that more time and effort are spent balancing the game than a dozen marine codices.