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sharkticon wrote: Got another couple for you Petre, both Codex: Dark Angels and Codex: Dark Eldar received second editions with some minor errata added in. Can't remember what Dark Angels got, the second edition for Dark Eldar had the Wych Cult rules.
I wasn't counting those, although I probably should have.
And then did the Crimson Slaughter enter the Eye
In fear of the Inquisition at their heels.
‘No!’ said the horned red one. ‘None shall enter unto my halls!’
‘Please, oh mighty Khorne!’ said the former Chapter master.
‘We run not from our enemies but to your embrace.’
‘Then a toll is asked, before you can pass.’
‘Name it, oh murderous one.’
‘Your Thunder Hammers. Your Storm Shields. Your Cyclones.’
‘These are the cowards weapons, and none that walk my path will have them’
‘It is done, my lord Khorne’
And Khorne was satisfied.
But again the Crimson Slaughter were barred.
‘No!’ said the giant green one. ‘None shall enter unto my halls!’
‘Please, oh mighty Nurgle!’ said the former Chapter master.
‘We run not from our enemies but to your embrace.’
‘Then a toll is asked, before you can pass.’
‘Name it, oh gluttonous one.’
‘Your Attack Bikes. Your Land Raider Variants.’
‘These are weakling weapons, and none that walk my path will have them’
‘It is done, my lord Nurgle’
And Nurgle was satisfied.
But again the Crimson Slaughter were once again barred.
‘No!’ said the lithe purple one. ‘None shall enter unto my halls!’
‘Please, oh mighty Slaanesh!’ said the former Chapter master.
‘We run not from our enemies but to your embrace.’
‘Then a toll is asked, before you can pass.’
‘Name it, oh lascivious one.’
‘Your Razorbacks. Your Thunderfire Cannons. You Whirlwinds.’
‘These are pathetic weapons, and none that walk my path will have them’
‘It is done, my lord Slaanesh’
And Slaanesh was satisfied.
But the Crimson Slaughter were barred for a final time.
‘No!’ said the winged blue one. ‘None shall enter unto my halls!’
‘Please, oh mighty Tzeentch!’ said the former Chapter master.
‘We run not from our enemies but to your embrace.’
‘Then a toll is asked, before you can pass.’
‘Name it, oh wise one.’
‘You Storm Ravens. Your Storm Talons. Your Land Speeders.’
‘Only that which has wings may soar, and fly along my path’
‘It is done, my lord Tzeentch’
And Tzeentch was satisfied.
With heavy heart the Crimson Slaughter left their weapons of war behind.
Yet unto the Crimson Slaughter did the Warp deliver a bounty.
Daemon Engines, in seemingly unlimited quantities.
And Possessed Marines in abundance… for some reason…
Their Terminators smiled at their new Reaper Autocannons
And their Havocs did cavort with their new Autocannons.
They were real Traitor Marines at last.
– Excerpt from ‘Sable & Slaughter’, by Arch-Heretic Jervisius Johnsonius
Really clever, exalted!
DO:70S++G++M+B++I+Pw40k93/f#++D++++A++++/eWD-R++++T(D)DM+ Note: Records since 2010, lists kept current (W-D-L) Blue DP Crusade 126-11-6 Biel-Tan Aspect Waves 2-0-2 Looted Green Horde smash your face in 32-7-8 Broadside/Shield Drone/Kroot blitz goodness 23-3-4 Grey Hunters galore 17-5-5 Khan Bikes Win 63-1-1 Tanith with Pardus Armor 11-0-0 Crimson Tide 59-4-0 Green/Raven/Deathwing 18-0-0 Jumping GK force with Inq. 4-0-0 BTemplars w LRs 7-1-2 IH Legion with Automata 8-0-0 RG Legion w Adepticon medal 6-0-0 Primaris and Little Buddies 7-0-0
QM Templates here, HH army builder app for both v1 and v2 One Page 40k Ruleset for Game Beginners
Motograter wrote: How many kids do you know that can buy dark vengeance, codex csm, codex crimson slaughter and the battle force. That's a lot of cash just to start
The same ones that can buy five Imperial Knights...
sharkticon wrote: Got another couple for you Petre, both Codex: Dark Angels and Codex: Dark Eldar received second editions with some minor errata added in. Can't remember what Dark Angels got, the second edition for Dark Eldar had the Wych Cult rules.
I wasn't counting those, although I probably should have.
That's where I got my list, thanks though! I still wasn't counting the re-releases of DE/DA though.
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if loyalists can get umpteen books chaos marines could have 2
I would rather see all of the loyalists combined into one book, to be honest. There is no reason that something akin to the 4th edition traits system couldn't be used to represent Chapter variation.
That's just as lazy as shoving Chaos, Chaos Daemons, and Chaos Guard into one book.
Four books for Loyalists, four for Traitors.
One "baseline" book covering things like the Ultramarines and the "least divergent" Chapters(and/or Founding Legions) like Imperial/ Crimson Fists. A baseline book for traitors covering the Black Legion and the "least broken" of the Legions, so like the Word Bearers and Iron Warriors. Have this book having access to lots of "Undivided" stuff...but with a smattering of Marked units, like Berzerkers and Plague Marines and access to Daemons.
One "divergent" book covering the more "radical" FOC differentiating Chapters. Dark Angels, Raven Guard, and White Scars in addition to their Successors that follow their examples go in here. This book ideally would have the option for all Biker armies, all Terminator armies, Scout heavy armies, and some "unique" options for Captains/Chapter Masters and some "signature units" to go with. Imagine a unit of Raven Guard "veterans" stripped down to Scout Armor and organized as a kill team--and the equipment to match, or a White Scar "hunting party" of bikers with power spears.
Chaos gets a similar book with Alpha Legion, Night Lords, and Red Corsairs with rules for "renegades" in the book as well. Lots of "scavenged" Imperial equipment with the potential for Marks and Daemon summoning. Cultists of course make an appearance here as well.
Another "divergent" book covering the Space Wolves, Iron Hands, and Black Templars. The ability for mixed units of Terminators leading Tactical Marine squads, lots of "Champion" styled characters and a heavy focus on the infantry rather than the vehicles if that makes sense.
Chaos gets a similar book focusing on the World Eaters/Khornate warbands and Emperor's Children/Slaaneshi warbands. Signature units of Noise Marines for Slaaneshi warbands and Berzerkers for Khornate warbands, but with unique options and them being made Troops rather than Elites in the main book. Marked cultists in the book and give them the ability to summon in the appropriate Daemons. Make sure there are rules within the book detailing the "rivalries" of Khorne and Slaanesh allowing for an animosity styled potential--wacky fun!
Final divergent book would be something like the Blood Angels and the Chapters which are closer to the "renegade" edge here. This is the one I've given the least amount of thought to so forgive me on that. Final Chaos book would be Thousand Sons/Tzeentchian Cults and Death Guard/Nurgle warbands. Pretty easy here.
2014/03/06 20:40:37
Subject: Re:New Chaos Space Marines Release- March 6 Update
Well, whatever might be the case, there are currently 8 main books for the imperials: 5 books for SM (C:SM, BA, DA, SW, GK), 3 of other humans (IG, SoB, Inquisition). Additionally there are 4 Supplements: Raukaan, Sentinels, LotD, Knights and several Dataslates (Tyranic veterans, Centurion Cohort, Reclusiam).
Forgeworld adds 5 additional Lists (2 Krieg Regiments, Elysians, SM Siege Vanguard, Armored Fist).
Chaos has 2 Books - CSM, Demons. There are two supplements (Black Legion, Crimson Slaughter), one Dataslate (Be'Lakor, Cypher can be seen as a unit for both somehow) and Forge adds two Lists - Lost and the damned and Tyrants Legion.
Score without slates: 15:6
That reads like tons of stuff for Loyalists and a [MOD EDIT - Please find a different way to express yourself. Thanks - Alpharius] Do not approve.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/14 12:41:55
Waaagh an' a 'alf
1500 Pts WIP
2014/03/06 21:17:28
Subject: New Chaos Space Marines Release- March 6 Update
Kosake wrote: Well, whatever might be the case, there are currently 8 main books for the imperials: 5 books for SM (C:SM, BA, DA, SW, GK), 3 of other humans (IG, SoB, Inquisition). Additionally there are 4 Supplements: Raukaan, Sentinels, LotD, Knights and several Dataslates (Tyranic veterans, Centurion Cohort, Reclusiam).
Forgeworld adds 5 additional Lists (2 Krieg Regiments, Elysians, SM Siege Vanguard, Armored Fist).
Chaos has 2 Books - CSM, Demons. There are two supplements (Black Legion, Crimson Slaughter), one Dataslate (Be'Lakor, Cypher can be seen as a unit for both somehow) and Forge adds two Lists - Lost and the damned and Tyrants Legion.
Forge World technically adds three lists just for "Lost and the Damned" alone, unless the various "Vraksian Renegade" lists have been invalidated. There was a "basic" list, a Khorne list, and a Nurgle list.
Yeaaah...you remember it as "good", I remember it as "horribly abused".
And as we all know, it's the only Codex that's ever been horribly abused ever. Every other Codex ever release has been a paragon of non-abusive balance.
Chaos has 2 Books - CSM, Demons. There are two supplements (Black Legion, Crimson Slaughter), one Dataslate (Be'Lakor, Cypher can be seen as a unit for both somehow) and Forge adds two Lists - Lost and the damned and Tyrants Legion.
I'm not sure Tyrant's Legion should even count as a Chaos faction. Hell, the only allies they are allowed to take are Space Marines and Imperial Guard (IE, they can't ally with Chaos. At all), and they use Imperium super heavies for Escalation. All of their units for the most part are Imperium units.
Sure, fluff-wise, this was Huron giving the illusion that it was the Imperium that was in the wrong for attacking them, but still, anyone looking for a Chaos flavor should go look elsewhere, cause for the most part in terms of units and allies Tyrant's Legion is actually more like an Imperium faction. It's only the fluff background to it that's renegade (and even then, it's unclear if they were aligned to Chaos back then).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/06 22:11:20
2014/03/06 20:48:44
Subject: New Chaos Space Marines Release- March 6 Update
TiamatRoar wrote: I'm not sure Tyrant's Legion should even count as a Chaos faction. Hell, the only allies they are allowed to take are Space Marines and Imperial Guard (IE, they can't ally with Chaos. At all), and they use Imperium super heavies for Escalation. All of their units for the most part are Imperium units.
That's because Huron's switch to chaos was extremely recent and not having access to the Eye means Imperial equipment is pretty much all that he has access to. Had Huron's actions happened a thousand years or so ago, then chaos cults would have had tome to establish and build all sorts of familiar chaos war engines.
2014/03/06 23:24:04
Subject: Re:New Chaos Space Marines Release- March 6 Update
Yeaaah...you remember it as "good", I remember it as "horribly abused".
I also remember BA as horribly abused, 4th Edition Eldar/Tau as horribly abused, 5th edition GK/Necrons/SW, 6th tau/eldar...
I don't hear anyone clamoring to rip 3/4ths of their codex away and split part of it into another codex...
When were Basilisks part of the Chaos Codex?
They weren't, you needed Codex: Imperial Guard to use its rules.
Exactly.
That has got to be the weakest argument I've ever seen you make. You running your shields on aux power or something?
A book referencing a unit from a different Codex isn't anywhere near the same thing as entire unit entries being ripped from an existing Codex, and you damn. Well. Know. It.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/03/06 23:25:06
A book referencing a unit from a different Codex isn't anywhere near the same thing as entire unit entries being ripped from an existing Codex, and you damn. Well. Know. It.
By that same vein, you of all people should know that blasting one Codex does not mean that someone thinks they're "all balanced".
What is kind of amusing as well is the fact that when Codex: Iron Warriors...I mean, the 3.5 Codex: Chaos Space Marines was "revised", most of the complaints were centered around "We lost X, Y, and Z!" when at the same time other armies were losing similar things.
Doctrines are gone, the Traits system is gone, Codex: Craftworld Eldar is gone and most of the things that were published in the same timeframe as the 3.5 CSM book have gone the way of the dodo.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/06 23:49:43
2014/03/06 23:55:43
Subject: New Chaos Space Marines Release- March 6 Update
Kosake wrote: Well, whatever might be the case, there are currently 8 main books for the imperials: 5 books for SM (C:SM, BA, DA, SW, GK), 3 of other humans (IG, SoB, Inquisition). Additionally there are 4 Supplements: Raukaan, Sentinels, LotD, Knights and several Dataslates (Tyranic veterans, Centurion Cohort, Reclusiam).
Forgeworld adds 5 additional Lists (2 Krieg Regiments, Elysians, SM Siege Vanguard, Armored Fist).
Chaos has 2 Books - CSM, Demons. There are two supplements (Black Legion, Crimson Slaughter), one Dataslate (Be'Lakor, Cypher can be seen as a unit for both somehow) and Forge adds two Lists - Lost and the damned and Tyrants Legion.
Forge World technically adds three lists just for "Lost and the Damned" alone, unless the various "Vraksian Renegade" lists have been invalidated. There was a "basic" list, a Khorne list, and a Nurgle list.
That's just as lazy as shoving Chaos, Chaos Daemons, and Chaos Guard into one book.
Four books for Loyalists, four for Traitors.
Man, you havn't played long have you? That describes the 3.5 codex for chaos! The one that's actually good.
Yeaaah...you remember it as "good", I remember it as "horribly abused".
To be fair this makes Imperial factions even more dramatic. Just think of all the Imperial factions and the smattering of SM (heck, there's at least 12 new chapter tactics for marines)
I think the main grievance comes down to the fact that we have had two bland/sub-par codices in a row that entirely tried to hide up the legions which are honestly probably one of the most prominent selling points of chaos at this point for many. Along with that, the update from 3.5 to 4th wasn't that simple. It literally tore out every chaos daemon unit and chunked it into its own codex. From there, we lost any synergy for an entire 2 editions only to return in 6th vaguely. Still, all it really means is that you can ally them together and you can cast spells on one another. You can't mix them together, there's no rules to synergize them together. Then, there's the other grievance. No matter what, we are still a mirror to SM. Space Marines have the same number of "legions" (chapters and warbands nowadays) and both have a prominent future army (Corsairs and Black Templars). Now then, we've always had to share a codex whilst SM have 4 codices for SM and for a while even 5. When the 5th SM codex came out, for many individuals, this probably seemed like hope that Chaos too would have rules such as that. It was a perfect representation. From there, 6th edition came and chaos received another buggy, bland, and uninspired codex. But many were content as long as GW tried to balance around CSM and DA levels. Well they didn't. And then they came out with Sm who got a new troop model (which honestly is one of the most important parts sense you will be stuck deploying them every game) and had a codex which managed to capture the basic element of almost every army extremely well. Chaos though? We have several legions that don't even have characters to represent them. Many of the legions can't even truly be fielded in any real distinctive manner. We look to our mirror image and discover a codex more inspired, more balanced, more reliable, and just more loved even though Chaos has been bitter sense 4th edition's codex came out they continued the same cycle of mediocrity.
To rub salt in the wound, SM supplements are a joke. Three of them are just a company of marines within a chapter that already gets representation. It's a joke. They could have done so much, they could have even made it (using UM as an example) Supplement: Ultramarine. From there, give a selection of Ultramarine only relics, a warlord trait specifically to them, no dataslate for the experts against tyranids, put the rules for them in here. Then do this for other factions. It could go into what makes them unique, describe them, give some unique traits to make them appealing. Really, anything.
Anyways, as to the lost and the damned. I'm still waiting and hoping they might do it for Tzeentch and Slaanesh (my favorite two gods )!
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/03/07 00:15:30
Kanluwen wrote: Four books for Loyalists, four for Traitors.
No. Five books for the Imperium (Astartes, Militarium, Sororitas, Inquisition and Mechanicum. Also need to rename Inquisition into Inquisitium or something…) and three books for Chaos (Lost-and-damned, marines, daemons). Done.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
Kanluwen wrote: Four books for Loyalists, four for Traitors.
No. Five books for the Imperium (Astartes, Militarium, Sororitas, Inquisition and Mechanicum. Also need to rename Inquisition into Inquisitium or something…) and three books for Chaos (Lost-and-damned, marines, daemons). Done.
Is it wrong if sometimes I wish Sororitas could become Ecclesiarchy? Then have a troop choice that is just raving floggers and devoted members with pitchforks and cobbled autoguns that charge onwards for faith?
If one wished to stretch it, I could see 6 books (one that is codex adherent and one that is not) for the Imperium and 4 for chaos (undivided/renegades and gods or legions and renegades). Really though, the supplements are largely just disappointments. Farsight is probably the only one I regard as really worth it and even then it is more because of the fluff of farsight. The battlesuits as troops seems like something that could easily fit in the codex itself and almost feels yanked out.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/07 00:12:40
StarTrotter wrote: Is it wrong if sometimes I wish Sororitas could become Ecclesiarchy?
No, it is not wrong. But but but we still need latin names ! Codex: Astra Ecclesiarchium. Latin + Greek make no sense, but whatever .
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
StarTrotter wrote: Is it wrong if sometimes I wish Sororitas could become Ecclesiarchy?
No, it is not wrong. But but but we still need latin names ! Codex: Astra Ecclesiarchium. Latin + Greek make no sense, but whatever .
Don't forget random tables! Roll d6 to discover why the hordes of faithful are so frothy. Along with that, the priest rolls a d3. On a 1, he is actually corrupt and him dying gives no slay the warlord, a 2 means nothing happens, a 3 means that he is worth 2 points but gives stubborn and zealous to all around him. If he dies, all within 12" take a leadership test. On a fail, remove that many units to represent their devote sacrifice of their souls in shame. On a pass, all of them gain preferred enemy (enemy) and hatred (all)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/07 00:19:16
Does anyone have any actual news on the rumored Havoc release supposedly coming next week?
It is the 3rd Millennium. For more than a hundred months Games Workshop has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Nottingham. It is the foremost of wargames by the will of the neckbeards, and master of a million tabletops by the might of their inexhaustible wallets. It is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with business strategies from the early Industrial Revolution Age. It is the Carrion Lord of the wargaming scene for whom a thousand veteran players are sacrificed every day, so that it may never truly die. Yet even in its deathless state, GW continues its eternal vigilance. Mighty battleforce starter-sets cross the online-store-infested miasma of the internet, the only route between distant countries, their way lit by a draconian retail trade-agreement, the legal manifestation of the GW's will. Vast armies of lawyers give battle in GW's name on uncounted websites. Greatest amongst its soldiers are the Guardians of the IP, the Legal Team, bio-engineered super-donkey-caves. Their comrades in arms are legion: the writing team and countless untested rulebooks, the ever vigilant redshirts, and the writers of White Dwarf, to name only a few. But for all their multitudes, they are barely enough to hold off the ever-present threat from other games, their own incompetence, Based Chinaman - and worse. To support Games Workshop in such times is to spend untold billions. It is to support the cruelest and most dickish company imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of sales discounts and Warhammer Fantasy Battle, for so much has been dropped, never to be re-published again. Forget the promise of cheaper digital content and caring about the fanbase, for in the GW HQ there is only profit-seeking, Space Marines and Sigmarines. There is no fun amongst the hobby shops, only an eternity of raging and spending, and the laughter of former employees who left GW to join better companies.
2014/03/07 00:34:29
Subject: New Chaos Space Marines Release- March 6 Update
For you Warlord trait, roll a dice. On a 1, you get no warlord traits. On a 2, roll for the trait on the First Table. On a 2, roll for the trait on the Second Table. On a 3, roll a d3 : this will tell you on which one of the table from the main rulebook you will roll. On a 4, congratulation, you get Fear ! On a 5, every objective has the booby-traped effect in addition to the normal effect of mysterious objective. If you also get booby-traped as the normal mysterious objective effect, roll twice each turn to see if the objective explode once, twice or not at all this turn. Also, every piece of terrain now use the mysterious terrain rule. Roll to see which random table you will use for each terrain. On a 6, you get two warlord traits ! Reroll twice on this table. If you get twice the same warlord trait, you get Fear instead. If you get Fear twice, congratulation ! You are now really frightening.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2014/03/07 00:47:56
Subject: New Chaos Space Marines Release- March 6 Update
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
2014/03/07 01:24:24
Subject: Re:New Chaos Space Marines Release- March 6 Update
JSF wrote:... this is really quite an audacious move by GW, throwing out any pretext that this is a game and that its customers exist to do anything other than buy their overpriced products for the sake of it. The naked arrogance, greed and contempt for their audience is shocking.
= Epic First Post.
2014/03/07 01:29:20
Subject: Re:New Chaos Space Marines Release- March 6 Update
sub-zero wrote: Does anyone have any actual news on the rumored Havoc release supposedly coming next week?
What havoc release?
Original rumours had the Hellbrute model being released alongside new boxes of Chosen and Havocs, as well as a Supplement allowing CSM armies to distribute Veteran skills like candy. When the Hellbrute got confirmed without any accompanying new models and the supplement was revealed to be nothing like rumoured, people started clutching at straws that maybe the original rumours were only slightly made up instead of mostly, and that maybe the other new models were coming next week.
Blue DP Crusade 126-11-6 
Biel-Tan Aspect Waves 2-0-2 
Looted Green Horde smash your face in 32-7-8 
Broadside/Shield Drone/Kroot blitz goodness 23-3-4 
Grey Hunters galore 17-5-5 
Khan Bikes Win 63-1-1 
Tanith with Pardus Armor 11-0-0 
Crimson Tide 59-4-0 
Green/Raven/Deathwing 18-0-0 
Jumping GK force with Inq. 4-0-0 
BTemplars w LRs 7-1-2 
IH Legion with Automata 8-0-0 
RG Legion w Adepticon medal 6-0-0 
2375
/ 
1690
WIP (1875)
1300
760
WIP (350)
WIP (150) 
Waaagh an' a 'alf
