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 Accolade wrote:

AnabisXero wrote:
Knights are NOT titans. They are large one man piloted walkers. Big walkers. Also they don't belong to the Titan legions.

Warhounds are the smallest class of true titans.

This argument has gone on ad-nauseam in the Imperial Knight news thread. Here is the box for the knight:



GW does not seem to mind changing fluff, going back-and-forth on things, or what not. I am not here to continue that argument, I just don't think it is necessary to correct others on interpretation of something GW has always left vague.

Ah, GW. They do like contradicting themselves.
"It's not a titan. Aaaand, *poof* It's a titan! Thank you, thank you very much!"

There's a bit of anecdotal evidence about GW's upper management having contempt for a large portion of the fanbase, particularly the more enthusiastic fans. Perhaps these sort of inconsistencies are their way of getting back at these fans, making them argue over semantics

Also as likely is the general lack of consistency with which lore is approached.

 Accolade wrote:
There's a bit of anecdotal evidence about GW's upper management having contempt for a large portion of the fanbase, particularly the more enthusiastic fans. Perhaps these sort of inconsistencies are their way of getting back at these fans, making them argue over semantics

Also as likely is the general lack of consistency with which lore is approached.

The company retconned Tolkien, I don't think they are above doing it to their own IP.

There seems to be two versions of box design floating around. Either it's a regional/marketing faux pas, or GW really don't know the names of their own products.

Edit: I suspect one is a misprint from an early production run, which has been corrected in later runs.

The image I posted appears to be the back of the box. Here is another image of it (the text is a bit harder to read):

Well its good to know GW is contradicting themselves on their own box!

AnabisXero wrote:
Knights are NOT titans. They are large one man piloted walkers. Big walkers. Also they don't belong to the Titan legions.

Warhounds are the smallest class of true titans.

And that is your opinion, not fact. 20+ years of GW calling them Titans, so rest assured, they are Titans. No retcon has occurred, no contradiction has occurred. Imperial Knights are Knight-class Titan, whether you agree or not.

SJ

Oh the things Dakka finds to argue over...

Front of the box: Imperial knight.
Back of the box: Imperial knight titan.

GW's description of them:

. Piloted by a Noble and crafted utilizing forgotten technology, the Knight suits are the ultimate weapon of war.

Even GW forgot what to call them.



Also, in regards to the wraith knight - WDW states its the new form of the eldar knight.
Just because it does not have a D weapon does not mean it isnt a titan anymore.

IF GW released a new unit for every army that did the same, would there be any point in even playing an army anymore?
They wont release the same units for armies.

And the whole "but this army gets X and that one doesent" really grows annoying by now.
If you want an army with nearly everything in it, play basic marines.

So back to my original question. With mini titans (IE Knight Class Titans) coming out for the imperium of man do you think the other races will start seeing them for their army's in the future?

Most likely not, as there always has been a huge bias towards the Imperium. The rest of us will have to be appeased with the offering we have been given.

This is nothing more than the opinion of a long time GW gamer.

 Xerics wrote:
So back to my original question. With mini titans (IE Knight Class Titans) coming out for the imperium of man do you think the other races will start seeing them for their army's in the future?

Maybe, but I'm doubtful.

 Xerics wrote:
So back to my original question. With mini titans (IE Knight Class Titans) coming out for the imperium of man do you think the other races will start seeing them for their army's in the future?

They've already made plastic giant walkers for the 3 races that have had such contraptions in the past (Stompas, Wraithknights and now Imperial Knights, which covers all Imperial armies), so at the very least you can count on those races not getting something similar in the forseeable future.

Tau and Necrons haven't traditionally had walkers at that scale, so it's unlikely that we'll see something similar...if anything, they'll come out with a 'big' kit for those races that isn't a walker per se...but GW certainly isn't against adding new things to races, so that's certainly a possibility.

But if you're still wondering about Eldar getting another giant walker, it just ain't going to happen anytime soon because they have the Wraithknight.

 yakface wrote:

Yep, they're called WraithKNIGHTS and they already exist in the codex.

And they're somehow not Gargantuan Creatures.




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 Jackal wrote:
Front of the box: Imperial knight.
Back of the box: Imperial knight titan.

Five of six sides of the box mine came in say "Imperial Knight Titan". The remaining side doesn't have any text that indicates the model within at all.

Edit to add:

As far as the constant Titan/NonTitan arguments...well, I don't have a LOT of the old info on hand. I don't have those old WDs. I didn't play 40k or Epic back in the 2nd ed and earlier days, and never really paid much attention to knights at all.

BUT, I do have a bunch of old books given to me by a friend who got out of the hobby, and I found an interesting snippet in Titan Legions: Codex Titanicus, p. 13

The most important innovation that the Tech-Priests brought to the Knight Worlds were the fighting machines also called Knights. These machines were one-man versions of a Titan, much smaller and less powerful than a real Titan, but far better suited to the mobile style of warfare prevalent amongst the nobility of the Knight Worlds.

It's an interesting bit of text for a few reasons. There are phrasings in there which could be interpreted to support either side of the perennial argument. They are "one-man versions of a Titan", which can be interpreted to mean that they ARE a sort of a Titan. But they're also compared to "a real Titan", implying just as much that they are NOT. With just that text, I'd be inclined to describe them as "Knights" OR "Knight Titans", but not to use just the term "Titan" alone. Maybe because it was created to be LIKE a Titan, maybe because they're not a part of the Titan Legions in a formal way, maybe the AM themselves sit around and argue about the proper nomenclature to apply.

But there's a twist. The text is also interesting because it is completely different than the Knight background information we've been given in WD with this new release. NOW, the AM (or at least, not the AM as of the Great Crusade, as described in TL:CT above and in surrounding text) aren't the ones who provided the Knights to the Knight Worlds. NOW, the tech of the Knights is from a far older source, and is a mystery that the AM covets a great deal. The upshot of that is, with so much fluff surrounding the origin of the Knights and the Knight Worlds changing, the formal label of "Imperial Knight Titan" on the box may just reflect a new and updated official stance on this eternal point of contention.

 Jackal wrote:
Front of the box: Imperial knight.
Back of the box: Imperial knight titan.

GW's description of them:

. Piloted by a Noble and crafted utilizing forgotten technology, the Knight suits are the ultimate weapon of war.

Even GW forgot what to call them.

There are two different box designs, it's not front + back. A bunch of people have posted unboxing videos online and it's obvious there's 2 versions.

It'll be interesting to see what the codex says. I'm half expecting it will refer to them as "Knight Carnifexes", making everyone's head double-explode as they argue about how to do Latin plurals properly too.

I really don't understand why it matters so incredibly much whether you call a Knight a titan or not.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I really don't understand why it matters so incredibly much whether you call a Knight a titan or not.

It doesn't make a damn bit of difference, it's just geeks like us enjoy arguing about ridiculous minutiae.

Back in the day when they introduced Knights, they had a whole backstory and heraldry, etc, that set them apart from the Titan legions (even though they now often fight alongside them), so there was some sort of distinction between Knights and Titans based on the fluff of the houses.

In reality, Knights are just single-pilot giant walkers...if you want to call those Titans, then they're titans. Regardless, they're just really big walkers.

At the risk of mentioning something already covered, as a 20-year veteran of the game, a Wraithknight is absolutely, positively the modernized version of the old Epic Knights. How could it be anything different, when it is larger than an Imperial Knight? How it takes damage does not factor into it.

Yeah, I can understand from a nerd perspective why you'd want to separate them from the "titan legions" if that's the fluff, but it just seems pedantry to worry about whether or not they are called titans. I assume something can be called a titan but not be part of the Titan Legions.

If I went and built or bought myself a battleship that doesn't immediately make it part of the Royal Navy. Owning a gun and running around an obstacle course in your backyard doesn't make you part of the Army.


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 Xerics wrote:
Ok so i'll correct my D weapon statement. Only gods made flesh and superheavies have D weaponry. A wraithknight is neither of those. So i'll put it this way. The imperium got a less than 400 point superheavy walker. Where is everyone elses?

Why the IK is a 400pt model I don't really know. But it goes both ways. Where is the Imperial version of a 240pt Monstrous Creature?