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 Azazelx wrote:
I wonder if anyone thinks this has the slightest chance in hell of shipping in October 2014? It looks good on the surface, but then it seems to be another awesome looking boardgame selling based on renders only that's a wee bit too ambitious for it's own good and creators who overestimate their ability to fulfil their promises. (I also note they're trying to "Mine Cart" as well.)

Just added in the comments:
So does anyone have any idea when this project might actually ship? I look at October 2014 and based on everything else I've backed, I can only say "no chance in hell."
When the inevitable delays occur, will the project be split into wave shipping with backers receiving the core box first and the extra stuff later?

Will international backers be told that all their stuff will ship together with the second wave?

Not being a troll - these are things that typically happen, and as I said, there's no chance of this shipping in 2014, let alone in 6 months.

I hear you on this one. Fat chance you'll get any sort of response around it though. Last thing this project needs is a further slip backwards, which I think would happen for sure if the creators brought up a realistic timeline. I'm in for a buck and hopefully they'll allow upping with a pledge manager. I may just drop completely, just because I need another miniatures game like I need a hole in the head.

I ended up backing out of this one after their last gameplay video. This was going to be a family game with my two teenagers and 8 year old. Between the random abilities from drawing cards and the intensive nature of just picking where you move your characters, this is almost an "elite" level game, where any misstep is magnified and the game runs on the live or die every turn feel. This would be great if I had a regular gaming group of friends that wanted an intense game, where every action carries consequences, but this isn't a "fun family night" game.

While the mini's only pledge looks good, the look of the monsters in the gameplay video, with their boardgame base, pretty much turned me off. They show the boss monsters on sculpted bases, but haven't seen any of the other gribblies on those. So not a need for me. Hope this turns out to be a great game for all you other backers though!

Aeneades wrote:
They addressed the estimated release date on the first day of the campaign -

Emergent Games wrote:
@Manchu: Sorry about missing the update comments! You raise a good point. We are doing a lot on the backend to pre-stage, but this date may simply be too optimistic. We have been in planning with our manufacturer (we're using Panda if you guys are curious), since we funded, so if it looks like we need to make changes we'll update everyone right away.

However! No matter what happens with the date, we will move mountains to ship as early as possible!

That's not "addressed" so much as admitted there's no chance at it

I hear you on this one. Fat chance you'll get any sort of response around it though. Last thing this project needs is a further slip backwards, which I think would happen for sure if the creators brought up a realistic timeline. I'm in for a buck and hopefully they'll allow upping with a pledge manager. I may just drop completely, just because I need another miniatures game like I need a hole in the head.

They've said that you can add after via pledge manager, but I don't think it will unlock stretch goals.

So here's the base game, for a decent price. You're getting a fair amount of plastic there.

However, for ten more dollars, you get the doggie and all the stretch goals.



I'm kind of in the same spot as Salacious Greed. There's no way this is seeing play with the family. It's probably going to be all me, myself, and I playing. It does seem pretty hardcore, and I'm okay with that, but I'm not sure how willing my wife will be to let me get another game like this to clutter up our dining room table.

At least I can mull it over this weekend.

Aeneades wrote:
They addressed the estimated release date on the first day of the campaign -

Emergent Games wrote:
@Manchu: Sorry about missing the update comments! You raise a good point. We are doing a lot on the backend to pre-stage, but this date may simply be too optimistic. We have been in planning with our manufacturer (we're using Panda if you guys are curious), since we funded, so if it looks like we need to make changes we'll update everyone right away.

However! No matter what happens with the date, we will move mountains to ship as early as possible!

Hm, Panda. The same guys that are doing Incursion's stuff and have quoted 6-8 months starting from now. And those guys are already working with Panda. Incursion was supposed to be fulfilling now, and it now looks like anywhere from Christmas or more likely next March/April.

Admitting that their ship date "might be optimistic" - and on the first day - is also a BIG[/b] red flag as well. So they're basically bullshitting from day 1. Expect this to hit around Christmas 2015 at best in that case. And no, that's [i]not snark.

Thanks very much for the info, though. It does help me to make an informed choice on this one. Much appreciated.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Salacious Greed wrote:
I ended up backing out of this one after their last gameplay video. This was going to be a family game with my two teenagers and 8 year old. Between the random abilities from drawing cards and the intensive nature of just picking where you move your characters, this is almost an "elite" level game, where any misstep is magnified and the game runs on the live or die every turn feel. This would be great if I had a regular gaming group of friends that wanted an intense game, where every action carries consequences, but this isn't a "fun family night" game.

While the mini's only pledge looks good, the look of the monsters in the gameplay video, with their boardgame base, pretty much turned me off. They show the boss monsters on sculpted bases, but haven't seen any of the other gribblies on those. So not a need for me. Hope this turns out to be a great game for all you other backers though!

The minis only pledge looks good on the surface, and if it weren't a year or more away I'd go for it (or even for the whole game, if I thought it might actually ship in October). But there's so much more I could do with $140-odd bucks (minis-only + shipping roughly translated to AU$) right now, so I'll have to pull my pledge here.

 Azazelx wrote:

Aeneades wrote:
They addressed the estimated release date on the first day of the campaign -

Emergent Games wrote:
@Manchu: Sorry about missing the update comments! You raise a good point. We are doing a lot on the backend to pre-stage, but this date may simply be too optimistic. We have been in planning with our manufacturer (we're using Panda if you guys are curious), since we funded, so if it looks like we need to make changes we'll update everyone right away.

However! No matter what happens with the date, we will move mountains to ship as early as possible!

Hm, Panda. The same guys that are doing Incursion's stuff and have quoted 6-8 months starting from now. And those guys are already working with Panda. Incursion was supposed to be fulfilling now, and it now looks like anywhere from Christmas or more likely next March/April.

Admitting that their ship date "might be optimistic" - and on the first day - is also a BIG[/b] red flag as well. So they're basically bullshitting from day 1. Expect this to hit around Christmas 2015 at best in that case. And no, that's [i]not snark.

Thanks very much for the info, though. It does help me to make an informed choice on this one. Much appreciated.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Salacious Greed wrote:
I ended up backing out of this one after their last gameplay video. This was going to be a family game with my two teenagers and 8 year old. Between the random abilities from drawing cards and the intensive nature of just picking where you move your characters, this is almost an "elite" level game, where any misstep is magnified and the game runs on the live or die every turn feel. This would be great if I had a regular gaming group of friends that wanted an intense game, where every action carries consequences, but this isn't a "fun family night" game.

While the mini's only pledge looks good, the look of the monsters in the gameplay video, with their boardgame base, pretty much turned me off. They show the boss monsters on sculpted bases, but haven't seen any of the other gribblies on those. So not a need for me. Hope this turns out to be a great game for all you other backers though!

The minis only pledge looks good on the surface, and if it weren't a year or more away I'd go for it (or even for the whole game, if I thought it might actually ship in October). But there's so much more I could do with $140-odd bucks (minis-only + shipping roughly translated to AU$) right now, so I'll have to pull my pledge here.

I hear you about the shipping date. It's really frustrating how few Kickstarters are even close to accurate. One of these days I'm going to draw the line on campaigns with overly optimistic dates, but for me it isn't going to be this one. I find it far less acceptable from established designers.

Went with Early Bird Heavy Assault and a bit extra for the two extra locations as add-ons. This looks like a great game for my usual gaming group, but we often have up to 6 people so getting the extra locations with multi-team stuff was a must!

Long time lurker - First time poster.
How come the minis only pledge isn't selling like hot cakes? Am I missing something or has this project got such a low profile nobody knows about it?
I have some Panda miniatures incoming from the earlier Incursion Kickstarter so I thought these might look good against them.

Probably because it's a big mixed bag so many will have uses for some but not all of them

which put the cost per mini up to where it doesn't make it a must have deal

(but it's not a bad thing for the campaign, allowing pick and choose of individual minis creates a fulfilment nightmare)

I suppose it's a weird mix but at ~$1.09 each I'm surprised it hasn't drummed up more attention, perhaps amongst the Cthulhu Wars and Achtung Cthulhu folks.
Am I right that this pledge is, one of each, which includes the kickstarter exclusives? I don't like the idea of hunting down proxies if they're not.

from the KS Faqs
The short answer is...one of everything! The longer answer is:



Children of Typhon
8 x Corrupted Animals
3 x Corrupted Humans
1 x Cupbearer



Infested
8 x Baitbags
3 x Consumed Baitbags
1 x Mother of Worms



The Fetch
8 x Bone Fetches
3 x Skin Fetches
1 x Harvester



Bloodless
8 x Spore Children
3 x Saprophyte Soldiers
1 x Black Tooth



Thornspawn
8 x Scavengers
3 x Wooden Men
1 x Prime



Heroes
7 x core set heroes (6 male plus Maxine)
6 x Male hero variants
6 x Female hero variants
1 x Folklorist Minsk
1 x "Herc" War Dog



Unique Minions (Stretch Goal Unlocks)
3 x Marrow Fetch
3 x Thorn Skulks



Unique Elites
1 x Eldrivore
1 x Artifact Wraith
1 x Eater of the Dead
1 x Daughter of Typhon
1 x Grim Imposter
1 x Whispering Fetch
1 x Flensing Tree
1 x Infesting Queen
1 x Lunger (Stretch Goal Unlock)



Unique Bosses
1 x Aether Husk
1 x Commander Geitz

Whew! That's 98 in all, plus we will add any Stretch Goal figures that unlock!

PomWallaby wrote:
Long time lurker - First time poster.
How come the minis only pledge isn't selling like hot cakes? Am I missing something or has this project got such a low profile nobody knows about it?
I have some Panda miniatures incoming from the earlier Incursion Kickstarter so I thought these might look good against them.

Because Incursion is already going to be ridiculously late and this campaign, from a first time publisher, is also using Panda.

So basically, anyone that's backed a KS by a well established company knows this thing may not ship for 12-18 months.

Those are fair points. As a Relic Knights backer I've got used to ignoring estimated completion dates!
Ultimately I'm okay with dates slipping, quality is different. I haven't seen any of panda's miniatures, so that's still a bit of a gamble to me. If the quality is there though that bucket o' minis would be quite the haul.

PomWallaby wrote:
Those are fair points. As a Relic Knights backer I've got used to ignoring estimated completion dates!

You shouldn't, though. That's sort of the problem with lots of people that back projects. They hold the companies to very little accountability.

Ultimately I'm okay with dates slipping, quality is different. I haven't seen any of panda's miniatures, so that's still a bit of a gamble to me. If the quality is there though that bucket o' minis would be quite the haul.

Why are you okay with dates slipping? Especially if they weren't realistic in the first place?

]

 cincydooley wrote:

PomWallaby wrote:
Those are fair points. As a Relic Knights backer I've got used to ignoring estimated completion dates!

You shouldn't, though. That's sort of the problem with lots of people that back projects. They hold the companies to very little accountability.

Yeah. It's even more annoying when they tell you oh that's how KS is, you're not buying a product, you're funding a dream. Ugh

Anyway, dropped my pledge for this after checking up on the incursion incident. I so do NOT need another KS that's going to be delayed till god knows when.

 cincydooley wrote:

PomWallaby wrote:
Those are fair points. As a Relic Knights backer I've got used to ignoring estimated completion dates!

You shouldn't, though. That's sort of the problem with lots of people that back projects. They hold the companies to very little accountability.

Ultimately I'm okay with dates slipping, quality is different. I haven't seen any of panda's miniatures, so that's still a bit of a gamble to me. If the quality is there though that bucket o' minis would be quite the haul.

Why are you okay with dates slipping? Especially if they weren't realistic in the first place?

]

I'm happy if the date slips to maintain quality. IMHO the worst thing bar non delivery is delivery of a rushed poor product. (I'm in this for the minis only at this stage)
Kingdom Death is a prime example as I'm very happy each time I hear of delays/improvements being made, i.e additional artwork, larger monsters.

I interpret the estimated completion date of any KS project as a best case scenario. That is, everything goes right first time and no additional products are produced.

I think that there is a growing trend of backers being much more careful with their dollars,.....

I think the days of unknowns throwing up great 3d renders of cool looking minis and getting hundreds of thousands of dollars may be numbered.

This particular one never really caught my interest,... I think mostly the theme, for me though.

 yamato wrote:


I think the days of unknowns throwing up great 3d renders of cool looking minis and getting hundreds of thousands of dollars may be numbered.

Take a look at Guardians Chronicles.

Go on.

I dare you.

What started as nice handcrafted sculpts have been turned in to lumps of plastic. It's very sad. Take a look at their latest updates.

And it's from an established company too.

I am certainly not expecting the Oct 2014 release. To be fair the only KS I have backed to come in this year is probably Mars Attacks, Robotech seems beset with problems and I already feel Incursion at best will be 4th quarter2014 or more likely just into 2015

However, this is something we all know and have come to expect from miniature KS's so what is the beef? If you play the KS lottery you should know the game, if not just wait on retail.

This has the feel of a good game and looks potentially a real winner, so I am happy to gamble a little investment their way, as a new emerging compnay rather than on SDE etc that all seem to be feeding the major KS players who although "big" companies seem reluctant to gamble their own cash for new products.

Damnit, its got an hour left and I could just... pick up... the wallet....

I wish I didn't own on taxes damnit. This looks like a lot of fun with a crew and some beers on a Saturday night.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:

 yamato wrote:


I think the days of unknowns throwing up great 3d renders of cool looking minis and getting hundreds of thousands of dollars may be numbered.

Take a look at Guardians Chronicles.

Go on.

I dare you.

What started as nice handcrafted sculpts have been turned in to lumps of plastic. It's very sad. Take a look at their latest updates.

And it's from an established company too.

Challenge accepted,.... Oh my word,.....!!!!!

There are some way pissed off folks over there too!

This one, ironically, was an easy, easy, pledge for me. I asked myself, "If this game had zero minis... hypothetically... would I want it?" which, I find myself asking not nearly enough of KS'ers I back.

Moreso than Mercs Recon (which I mostly want for Mercs Table-top value), moreso than Arcadia Quest, which I happily backed for the minis alone... I felt like this one just really clicked for me.

It looks like a fun, middle-weight, game with a theme I love, just enough customizability, and the lure of random mission generators, and open-source modability.

Had no qualms about throwing $250 at this one, and wish I could play it in October... which surely is a massive pipe-dream on their parts. :-p

PomWallaby wrote:
Long time lurker - First time poster.
How come the minis only pledge isn't selling like hot cakes? Am I missing something or has this project got such a low profile nobody knows about it?
I have some Panda miniatures incoming from the earlier Incursion Kickstarter so I thought these might look good against them.

For me:

1) Time issue. It could easily be a year late. They are unproven and their fulfilment date is bs at best.
2) I have Cthulhu Wars coming (hopefully this year) - lots of daemonic greeblies coming already.
3) I have Shadows of Brimstone coming - lots of daemonic and non-daemonic greeblies coming already.

4) If it weren't for 1), I'd probably have gone in anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

wilycoyote wrote:
I am certainly not expecting the Oct 2014 release. To be fair the only KS I have backed to come in this year is probably Mars Attacks, Robotech seems beset with problems and I already feel Incursion at best will be 4th quarter2014 or more likely just into 2015

However, this is something we all know and have come to expect from miniature KS's so what is the beef? If you play the KS lottery you should know the game, if not just wait on retail.

Well, because it's just not fething good enough. There has to be some more responsibility from creators. It's not just free money. Don't give the most optimistic shipping dates. They should work out a realistic shipping date, then add 6-8 months. Maybe then they would only be 1-2 months late or even "early". Unfortunately their egos seem to keep on getting in the way of being willing to be upfront and truthful to their backers.

This has the feel of a good game and looks potentially a real winner, so I am happy to gamble a little investment their way, as a new emerging compnay rather than on SDE etc that all seem to be feeding the major KS players who although "big" companies seem reluctant to gamble their own cash for new products.

Unfortunately, it's too much of a gamble for me these days. I've been in the situation you're in, but I've been burnt a few too many times now. The fact that these guys admit on day 1 that their shipping date is unrealistic simply removes any trust I might be able to work up for unknowns. If it makes it to retail and I remember/care about this project in 2016, I might look at picking it up.

 Azazelx wrote:

Well, because it's just not fething good enough. There has to be some more responsibility from creators. It's not just free money. Don't give the most optimistic shipping dates. They should work out a realistic shipping date, then add 6-8 months. Maybe then they would only be 1-2 months late or even "early". Unfortunately their egos seem to keep on getting in the way of being willing to be upfront and truthful to their backers.

Unfortunately, I think they'd scare away more backers. I've seen plenty of projects not get funded when the comments start with "XX months? Sorry that's way too long to have money tied up". I'm sure creators have to balance not being super optimistic with not scaring away too many backers.

I'm not convinced that essentially lying to backers (which is what this one is) or having the equivalent of your fingers crossed behind your back when stating the fulfilment date is really the best option, though.

Hopefully you'll forgive my clumsy linking skills (or lack thereof), but interesting development on Fireteam Zero's production.

Apparently a 2nd Kickstarter is being launched for alternate-language versions, and all newly hit stretch-goals will be provided for free to backers of the original KS.

Now, I cant' speak to production and such as it isn't my field, but I remember the game looking genuinely interesting to me, and it having flown under the radar around these parts.

The new KS will apparently offer the English version again as a "second chance" but new backers will only get the new set of exclusives, with the first KS exclusives remaining such.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/701653685/fireteam-zero-a-game-of-tactics-horror-and-cool-mi

And they're pushing delivery past Chinese New Year already! Glad they're being upfront about it, but sheesh

Cool!

Did someone run out of money?