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Hi everyone, we decided to cancel the campaign and come back in a reasonable time period with a better product plus some casts done. It was hard to lead it back at that point because of the stretch goals structure that we created which forced the whole campaign from the start to be a 'nothing or everything' project which scared many people to back us. We want to come back with a fresh campaign with a better deal to everyone, from more accessible rewards to a wider variety of products and freebies.

We also want to encourage to all of you to follow us on facebook if you have not done it yet for further updates since the project remains completly alive.

There were a lot of kickstarters running at the moment, It is very tough for a little guy to compete when other companies are running theirs.

I still want hard plastic as an option.

My advice.

Layout your rules and make them available ASAP prior to the KS.

Label freebies clearly on your kickstarter on various goals.

More fluff and background, perhaps an introduction of other races.

Presentation of your models - It's ok to show them individually, but when you showed them as a group shop on round bases people make get the wrong impression. Position them in rank and file as they would be in the game.

Hold off for several months. I wouldn't restart this any where near the next Zombicide cook mini or not kickstarter preorder.

My contribution also, as I was a backer too.

Yes, there were several "big" KS around but this is possible to be the case in the future also. If your product is good the chances to be successful are also high. I think that you have a good product here, therefore it was a matter of scheduling the KS.

As mentioned before the collecting amount was huge for this kind of a product. Mierce, after two very successful KS put as their collecting amount the 20k pounds and in their first one 5k, where they were also offering minis already existing and known for their quality. The reason I started with Mierce was just because I always wanted their Chimera model and now I have the 70% of their line.
Reaper is an even better example, as it is an well known large company.What did they do in their first Bones KS? The initial amount for the project to be funded was 30k $. And they had already realeased some figures made of the new material, therefore customers had an idea before the KS.
This could be an idea to consider if you can afford.

Ant then it was the huge pledge levels and the way the new units were unlocked, which made it very difficult to unlock all the units you showed from the beginning. Everyone who would support this KS would go for an as possible as complete army. Otherwise would be less interested.
The point is that you have to secure that someone who pledges won't reduce his pledge out of project acomplishment reasons. The approach you followed didn't guarantee that.

I really want to see your next effort soon. All the best!

If you want to succeed next time around, I would tell you to start with the most interesting unit you have, in hard plastic. That is not the pseudohistorical mooks (who only become interesting once you've unlocked 5-9 of them), it is your best special unit. Look at Mark's Eisenkarn campaign: did he start with a bunch of armoured men with rifles? No, he started with an eight inch tall articulated mech.

Ideally, this would be a unit that people would be willing to buy on its own - one that could successfully be integrated into other armies even if the rest of your campaign does not fund (you don't want the rest to not fund, but you don't want to create a catch-22 where people are not pledging to unlock the rest of your stuff because the rest of your stuff is not unlocked). If the angels in an Empire army or cervitaurs in a Wood Elf army are aesthetically different, that is more forgivable than if the swordmen stand out from the riflemen in the same way.

Alex brings up a VERY good point - and that sounds like good advice to me!

Bring the Sexy first, and then the rest will follow...

I'd be tempted to check out the sexy.

I'm not a collector of the historical type figures, but am always swayed by the lure of interesting fantasy figures.

I know Barzam and I were discussing this one over the weekend, and Barzam is just as particular about steering clear of historical figures as I am.

The fact that we'd both be willing to give things a fair shake the second time around is a good sign.

Hard plastic, unique designs... sounds like a good recipe for success. Will go hunt down the facebook page this afternoon.

I do think Alex has the right of it. Start with the model that makes everyone say "I don't know for certain what I'll use it for, but I WANT THAT NOW ANYWAY."

As I see it the problems you faced were:
1. Running a campaign for a single fantasy-based army. Fantasy isn't as big as sci-fi, so less of a customer pool available for it, especially with only a single army on offer.
2. Running a campaign for a single army, without the entire army unlocked at the start. This automatically reduces initial pledges, as many people will want to wait for more units to become unlocked before pledging, as almost nobody really wants an army with only three units available in the same aesthetic and having to fill out with different looking models.
3. The high cost. Not the cost for the models themselves ($20-something for a box is very reasonable), but how much money you would have needed to unlock even half of the whole army.

Alex already mentioned, above, the Dreamforge campaign. Mark was able to offer two giant robots, smaller scale versions, and an entire scifi army with a total pledge amount of $205,971. How much would $200,000 have unlocked in your campaign? I ask this, because Mark was able to accomplish that because he had a very good partner for the plastics production: Wargames Factory. How many plastics companies did you shop around for before making your final selection? I know plastics production isn't cheap to get off the ground, but I can't help but think there could have been a better deal out there for you.

I loved the love of the Empire army, had enough grittyness without being covered in skulls. One thing I'd suggest is to bulk out the background of your world.

Thinking about the ks last night, one thought was why not aim for a starter set launch? Aim for maybe 3 units from two forces, multi sprued like the 40k box to maximise sprue use and once that funds add on extra units as addons.

You'd only need 3 pledge levels. One for addons only, one for the basic box game and one higher pledge that would gain some of the extra units as they unlocked.

I'd keep it simple and break up the big stretch goals with resin figure addons unlocked inbetween.

You wouldn't even need to include a big glossy rulebook just a glossy magazine like book with the current rules for ks backers to playtest your rules before a full launch.

This is just how I'd launch a new game, and I'm sure many would disagree. However if you want people using your figures for more than wfb proxies it maybe worth considering.

Oh and if you could team up with Wargames Factory I'm sure it would be worth the wait for the goods. Their experience and good reputation add alot to a kickstarter campaign.

If I am might add another bit of helpful advice, get some resin masters, send them to some reputable game review site, and ask them to post up comparison photos of your models and the models you claim they scale with. A single photo lets people understand instantly how they will look next to their existing models.

Again, I would echo Alex's advice, find a unit that people will want to buy on its own, and fund that first.

Your pseudo historical models were nice, but you would need a whole bunch of units in order for them to become a viable alternative for massed battles, and no single unit was so spectacular that people would want to buy it on their own.

Here are some ideas of types of units that in my opinion would pique the interest of the community:
1)Monstrous cavalry in hard plastic. Horse sized creatures in hard plastic will always be a hit because they can be shoehorned into many different armies by swapping out riders (make sure you have generic leg options and add on saddles preferably). They are currently popular in WFB. Look at how many warhammer players have converted cavalry riding Cold Ones and White Lions.
2) Scenery. Barrels, fences, ruined walls, small animals, a wagon, buildings not covered in skulls. GW discontinued selling all of their injection plastic scenery, so the field is wide open.
3) Dinosaurs/Dragons The fantasy equivalent of giant stompy robots in sci-fi.

Additionally, some good ideas for stretch goals would be adding neat little bits to already funded sprues. For example, "If we hit $X we will include an arm holding a lantern, a backpack, and this head with a characterful scar on the swordmen sprue" Or even better, make a series of stretch goals that funds tooling an accessory sprue that is an optional add on to pledges. Each goal adds another interesting piece to the sprue. This could pull in people who are more interested in the skirmish scene, without dampening the enthusiasm of the "I just want tons of troops" crowd.

 Gallahad wrote:
3) Dinosaurs/Dragons The fantasy equivalent of giant stompy robots in sci-fi.

Not really. Mechs and tanks are both far better suited for HIPS kits than dinosaurs and dragons because they have mechanical joints. That means that you can change the pose without worrying about the musculature getting screwed up, which means you can buy half a dozen of them without having half a dozen dragons all in the exact same pose. For fantasy, you're more likely to end up with this.

There are a ton of things you could make that could more credibly be fielded in multiples, while still being interesting. Some of them could even work for your Empire faction.

The key is that it has to be hard plastic... that's a major major selling point at the moment. There's resin everywhere, metal too, but hard plastic is something almost everyone prefers, and if you can do it, do it.

 AlexHolker wrote:

 Gallahad wrote:
3) Dinosaurs/Dragons The fantasy equivalent of giant stompy robots in sci-fi.

Not really. Mechs and tanks are both far better suited for HIPS kits than dinosaurs and dragons because they have mechanical joints. That means that you can change the pose without worrying about the musculature getting screwed up, which means you can buy half a dozen of them without having half a dozen dragons all in the exact same pose. For fantasy, you're more likely to end up with this.

There are a ton of things you could make that could more credibly be fielded in multiples, while still being interesting. Some of them could even work for your Empire faction.

My comment was about which units are likely to bring in pledges, not the difficulties of manufacturing. I agree that dragons are harder to tool than robots.

What do you think are some of the tons of things they could make that could more credibly be fielded in multiples? Specifics will be very helpful to Haste Games.

I think one thing they could possibly look at is weapon swap options for their units - people might be willing to pick up 5 boxes of swordsmen if, for example, there was the option for hatchets or flails, or replacing the handgunner's muskets with, say, crossbows. Adding that extra versitility (an extra sprue in each box?) seems to me like it would increase their appeal a lot.

 Micky wrote:
I think one thing they could possibly look at is weapon swap options for their units - people might be willing to pick up 5 boxes of swordsmen if, for example, there was the option for hatchets or flails, or replacing the handgunner's muskets with, say, crossbows. Adding that extra versitility (an extra sprue in each box?) seems to me like it would increase their appeal a lot.

This sounds like a very good idea too.

Never mind the old standby of beating the competition in terms of quality AND quantity!

I would not force us to take 5 from choice A, 5 from choice B, and 5 form choice C. Just do number of boxes. I did not want to join in this KS because I did not care for some of the models but would have to buy them if I wanted to make a large purchase. I also agree with adding weapon choices. Being able to swap a crossbow with a handgun allow more choices and time periods.

I really, really hope this comes back. The aesthetic was brilliant and I loved the look of the models. I was down for $300 and ready to grab some of the extra hero stuff... this would make such a great Empire army, and frankly better (my opinion) than any of the stuff from GW.

 agnosto wrote:
Hi Howie. The renders in this thread look great, don't get me wrong but if I wanted a WFB empire army, I'd probably go Perry Brothers' hard plastics or Warlord historical for the rank and file, artillery and cavalry. Avatars of war if I wanted them to have a chaos feel. They all scale well with WFB as does wargames factory's vikings. There was a polish company making some damn sex vikings in heroic 28mm as well but I can't recall the company name.

You must have eyesite problems. Teh Perry stuff and Wargames Factory stuff is tiny next to WFB figures. They look almost laughably bad on the same table.


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And I clicked on this threadd to get the link to join in the KS :( I sooo want these figures!

re the Dreamforge campaign, wasn't that also because WGF was fronting a portion of the costs? Basically credit? Otherwise it would have been significantly more expensive...

 Gallahad wrote:
My comment was about which units are likely to bring in pledges, not the difficulties of manufacturing. I agree that dragons are harder to tool than robots.

And I'm saying those manufacturing difficulties make it less likely for a single customer to buy 2+ dragons than 2+ mechs or 2+ tanks. Even if you have a ruleset that allows squadrons of dragonriders, you don't want all your dragons in one pose.

What do you think are some of the tons of things they could make that could more credibly be fielded in multiples? Specifics will be very helpful to Haste Games.

The best example I can think of, and the one I would consider if I were in charge of a new fantasy HIPS manufacturer, is cervitaurs - like Warcraft's dryads and Keepers of the Grove - as my first kit. Mechanically they're similar to the various types of elf cavalry in the game, including Core, so they could find a place in Warhammer, while aesthetically they're something unique in plastic yet well known, and being a different race could be passed off as allies to a bunch of wood elves even if the art style is a bit different. Plus, centaurs and cervitaurs look better if there's a better balance in the size of the two parts, so they could be done with smaller sprues than proper cavalry.

What do you think are some of the tons of things they could make that could more credibly be fielded in multiples? Specifics will be very helpful to Haste Games.

The best example I can think of, and the one I would consider if I were in charge of a new fantasy HIPS manufacturer, is cervitaurs - like Warcraft's dryads and Keepers of the Grove - as my first kit. Mechanically they're similar to the various types of elf cavalry in the game, including Core, so they could find a place in Warhammer, while aesthetically they're something unique in plastic yet well known, and being a different race could be passed off as allies to a bunch of wood elves even if the art style is a bit different. Plus, centaurs and cervitaurs look better if there's a better balance in the size of the two parts, so they could be done with smaller sprues than proper cavalry.

Since this discussion is less specifically about Haste Games, I've created a new thread here.

Can't believe I missed this.

The minis are gorgeous and would love to buy loads. They are superior sculpts to both GW and Mantic and they are just plain wonderful.

Only in hard plastic though, no interest in expensive resin.

Would rather have one kit released in hard plastic than 8 released in resin.

Stick with the basic infantry first as a priority, try to include a few alt weapon options if possible... a kit that is primarily swordsmen, but has a few spear and halberd arms on as well would be great.

Their facebook page is pretty quiet, so not sure what they're up to... but I really want these guys

Hopefully they are taking their time to correct all problems. Working on releasing the rules and perhaps a working on a unique faction.

Ideally it would have been great if they were able to release ample product.

Either way, I will be ready when or if they are. No Hurry.

Its too bad this company quited

ATXMILEY wrote:
Its too bad this company quited

Out of curiosity why did you bump this out of no where?

At any rate, I can't guarantee they quite... yet.

What I can say is they they have been slowly working on making and releasing a single box set of miniatures made in HIPs. It will be a slower progress as the funds are coming out of their own pocket. They want to release a product, show what they can do and achieve then start another *possible* kickstarter but at a much smaller scale and funding goal.

That is all assuming they don't get burned out, lose motivation and/or get side tracked from other work. Which is possible IMO. The artist have done work in the video game industry, one of their more notable titles they worked for was the Elder Scrolls games.

 Piston Honda wrote:

ATXMILEY wrote:
Its too bad this company quited

What I can say is they they have been slowly working on making and releasing a single box set of miniatures made in HIPs. It will be a slower progress as the funds are coming out of their own pocket. They want to release a product, show what they can do and achieve then start another *possible* kickstarter but at a much smaller scale and funding goal.

That is all assuming they don't get burned out, lose motivation and/or get side tracked from other work. Which is possible IMO. The artist have done work in the video game industry, one of their more notable titles they worked for was the Elder Scrolls games.

That is good news! Id definitely by a few boxes of the basic infantry when released.

PM Sent to ya edlowe

 Piston Honda wrote:
PM Sent to ya edlowe

Cheers for the info Piston, sounds like their going down the right route, im hoping they can make an announcement soon.

So keen for said announcement