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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/16 18:05:43
Subject: Deep striking order confusion
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Rampaging Carnifex
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When multiple units deep strike in one turn, are they done in an order to where units placed before other units can effect future units? Meaning, as an example, if one deep striking unit has a homing beacon, can the homing beacon unit be placed first, and then the second deep striking unit use the homing beacon to land without scattering?
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Armies I play:
-5000 pts
-2500 pts
Mechanicus -1850 pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/16 18:06:55
Subject: Re:Deep striking order confusion
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Jealous that Horus is Warmaster
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To be able to use the beacon it must be on the board at the start of the turn. You cannot DS it down then use it for further placements that same turn.
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Revilers 6,000pts
Dark Eldar 4,000pts
Cadian 229 regiment 3,000pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/16 19:13:05
Subject: Re:Deep striking order confusion
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Rampaging Carnifex
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wildboar wrote:To be able to use the beacon it must be on the board at the start of the turn. You cannot DS it down then use it for further placements that same turn.
My problem with this, is that there is no such restriction in the Tau homing beacon rules. It states " Friendly units arriving by deep strike do not scatter as long as the first model is placed within 6" of a model with a homing beacon"
This does not require it to already be on the board...
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Armies I play:
-5000 pts
-2500 pts
Mechanicus -1850 pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/16 19:36:14
Subject: Deep striking order confusion
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Cowboy Wannabe
London
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For the Tau homing beacon, that is perfectly allowable.
It's the Space marine (and possibly others) homing beacons that have to be present at the start of the turn.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/16 19:40:55
Subject: Re:Deep striking order confusion
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Lieutenant General
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gameandwatch wrote: wildboar wrote:To be able to use the beacon it must be on the board at the start of the turn. You cannot DS it down then use it for further placements that same turn.
My problem with this, is that there is no such restriction in the Tau homing beacon rules. It states " Friendly units arriving by deep strike do not scatter as long as the first model is placed within 6" of a model with a homing beacon"
This does not require it to already be on the board...
The main rulebook requires it to already be on the board...
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'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/16 19:42:51
Subject: Re:Deep striking order confusion
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Jealous that Horus is Warmaster
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Ignorance being bliss and all that, I have no knowledge of the new Tau book and was referring to the Marines ones sorry.
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Revilers 6,000pts
Dark Eldar 4,000pts
Cadian 229 regiment 3,000pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/16 20:38:11
Subject: Deep striking order confusion
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Bounding Dark Angels Assault Marine
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You live somewhere where nobody plays Tau? Can I come with you where it's safe...??
But yeah to reiterate the point, homing beacons other than tau have to be on the board when you start rolling reserve rolls to have any effect, tau ones work as soon as they're deployed.
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Dark Angels 1st, 2nd, 5th, 10th Companies,
~14,000 points
36-21-4
~ 4500 points of Tau
5-5-1
~2500 points of Admech 40k
~6500 points of Tyranids: Hive Fleet Niadra
1-2-0 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/16 21:03:28
Subject: Re:Deep striking order confusion
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Auspicious Daemonic Herald
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Ghaz wrote: gameandwatch wrote: wildboar wrote:To be able to use the beacon it must be on the board at the start of the turn. You cannot DS it down then use it for further placements that same turn.
My problem with this, is that there is no such restriction in the Tau homing beacon rules. It states " Friendly units arriving by deep strike do not scatter as long as the first model is placed within 6" of a model with a homing beacon"
This does not require it to already be on the board...
The main rulebook requires it to already be on the board...
No it doesn't
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/16 21:07:03
Subject: Deep striking order confusion
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Lieutenant General
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Page 125, first bolded paragraph says otherwise.
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'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/16 21:40:44
Subject: Deep striking order confusion
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Fixture of Dakka
Vanished Completely
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Homing Beacons are not limited to just the Start of the Turn/Movement Phase, so page 125 does not apply as only Special Rules that must be used during this time are restricted. If we apply page 125 to prevent all Special Rules from triggering during this point in the timeline, unless they specifically state otherwise, then all sorts of strange things go on. Monstrous Creatures will take wounds from dangerous terrain tests, even though they are meant to be immune to them. Beasts will be forced to move only 6 inches as they come in from reserve, as it is a Ability granting 12 inch movement. Not to mention that a few 'reserve specific' Special Rules will also be null and void completely, such as Acute Senses, simply because they don't mention being able to trigger the turn a model comes in from reserves. The argument could even be extended to include even the Outflanking and Deep Striking rules themselves, because these Special Rules do not mention page 125 or address the restriction that would prevent them from being evoked. After all, instructions to carry out X are not permission to overcome restriction against X. Must cleaner to limit it to just Abilities and Special Rules that specifically state they must be used during the Start of the movement phase/turn.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/16 21:44:30
8th made it so I can no longer sway Tau onto the side of Chaos, but they will eventually turn aside from their idea of the Greater Good to embrace the Greatest of pleasures. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/16 21:53:59
Subject: Deep striking order confusion
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Gavin Thorpe
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Daemons are the best example of this, combining multiple opportunities for Deep Strike with an Icon that specifies nothing about being on the start of the table. EDIT: Expanding on my argument, Reserves absolutely happen in an order where you reserve one arrival before moving onto the next. Otherwise you could Deep Strike 2 squads, have them scatter into each other, and the resulting headache stops the game. The second would Mishap because it arrives on the previously-arrived dudes. In exactly the same way, the first unit brings the beacon down and subsequent units are now landing within 6" of a beacon.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/16 22:04:51
WarOne wrote:
At the very peak of his power, Mat Ward stood at the top echelons of the GW hierarchy, second only to Satan in terms of personal power within the company. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/16 21:59:14
Subject: Deep striking order confusion
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Lieutenant General
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And 'must be' doesn't necessarily mean 'can only be'. If you want to use the Homing Beacon to bring in reserves, then at the beginning of the turn is when you must use it to do so.
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'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/16 22:29:58
Subject: Deep striking order confusion
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The Hive Mind
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Ghaz wrote:And 'must be' doesn't necessarily mean 'can only be'. If you want to use the Homing Beacon to bring in reserves, then at the beginning of the turn is when you must use it to do so.
So the Homing Beacon can't be used to control Deep Strikes other than from Reserves?
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/16 23:13:46
Subject: Deep striking order confusion
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Fixture of Dakka
Vanished Completely
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Ghaz, Two quick questions: Which Special Rules specifically address the Restriction in question, in order to state they can be used even when coming in from reserves? Which unit is evoking the Beacon Special Rule: The unit arriving from reserves or the unit already on the table?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/16 23:17:24
8th made it so I can no longer sway Tau onto the side of Chaos, but they will eventually turn aside from their idea of the Greater Good to embrace the Greatest of pleasures. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/17 05:02:24
Subject: Deep striking order confusion
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Ghaz wrote:Page 125, first bolded paragraph says otherwise.
This states that the ability must include "at the start of the turn" in their rules / abilities to be denied usage when DSing.
An example would be, I can't DS Nemesor Zahndrekh onto the field and then use his Adaptive Tactics and Counter Tactics ability. However, I still have access to Phased Reinforcements (even if I might not use it).
I see no issue with the tau homing beacon being used in the same turn it was deep striked since it does not say it is used at the start of the turn.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/17 05:14:18
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