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The title says it all really, I have a few lists I'm working towards, But I'm a little bored of proxying stuff. I hate doing it. I'm lucky that my meta is pretty understanding. But I'd like to play with models I own. So, I've thrown all this together, and I want to see what you think as to whether its even remotely viable?

1500 Pts - Codex: Black Legion Roster

Total Roster Cost: 1500

HQ: Kharn the Betrayer (1#, 160 pts, Warlord)
1 Kharn the Betrayer

HQ: Chaos Lord (1#, 200 pts)
1 Chaos Lord + Mark of Nurgle + Lightning Claw x1 + Power Fist x1 + Sigil of Corruption + Veterans of the Long War
1 The Hand of Darkness

Troops: Khorne Berzerkers (8#, 197 pts)
7 Khorne Berzerkers + Veterans of the Long War + Chainaxe x4
1 Berzerker Champion + Lightning Claw x1 + Veterans of the Long War

Troops: Plague Marines (8#, 240 pts)
6 Plague Marines + Veterans of the Long War + Plasma gun x2
1 Plague Champion + Veterans of the Long War
1 Chaos Rhino

Heavy Support: Chaos Land Raider (1#, 235 pts)
1 Chaos Land Raider + Dirge Caster

Heavy Support: Maulerfiend (1#, 125 pts)
1 Maulerfiend

Chaos Space Marine Allies

HQ: Daemon Prince (1#, 265 pts)
1 Daemon Prince (HQ) + Power Armour + Wings + Daemon of Khorne
1 The Black Mace

Troops: Chaos Cultists (17#, 78 pts)
16 Chaos Cultists (Troops)
1 Cultist Champion

This will require me to buy a land raider (Which I'm going to anyway) A rhino, and a box of CSM for my FW deathguard bits (Which I'm going to anyway)

The idea is for the cultists to hold backfield, perhaps even start in reserve. The plague's are to push for the midfield objective, and the bezerkers combined with kharn and the nurgle lord will jump in the land raider, and teamed with the maulerfiend and daemon prince will charge forward and get right in the enemies face!

Well it's definitely a fun looking list, but my general rule is FMC saturation. One DP is gonna get shot out of the sky before he even does anything, and stands a pretty serious chance at getting overwatched to death. If you take a DP, you need to at least take one more, if not three total. DPs are sort of a thing you need to build your list around, because they are points heavy (which is good for your idea of wanting a low model count) and saturation is required IMO.

You could spend the money for the LR on another DP or two instead. Also consider a detachment of daemons because a) it will get you a third FMC and greater daemons are nastier versions of their DP cousins, and b) daemon troops are just all around better than CSM troops, so it will make your list a little stronger, especially if you take daemonettes.

The thing is I'm buying the land raider anyway for a different list, so that's why its included. People seem to have no problem with a single heldrake, and yet do have an issue with a single FMC?

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
The thing is I'm buying the land raider anyway for a different list, so that's why its included. People seem to have no problem with a single heldrake, and yet do have an issue with a single FMC?

Ah, gotcha.

I'm just speaking out of experience, having one DP has always failed me because it dies so fast. FMCs are priority targets and scary unit destroyers. Once I added a bloodthirster things got fun because your opponent is crapping his pants trying to shoot down the two scary things in his face turn 2 and mulching his units turn 3.

Another thing is, axe of blind fury isn't that great on DPs, they only get +2 STR and D6 extra attacks, the AP2 is useless because they are already AP2 all the time no matter what weapon they use. The black mace is the best DP weapon, because of that cursed rule that absolutely annihilates any unit it comes across and it becomes AP2 in a DP's hands.

Being T5 compared to AV12 and having to take grounding checks makes them a lot less durable than a heldrake.

Think about it: S7 wounds you on a 2+, but has to roll a 5 to touch AV12.

Ok, Let me do some editing then...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok, Changed to the mace. My model is armed with an Axe, but it'll have to do for now. I had to lose 2 cultists and a shotgun, but I can live with that sacrifice. I also dropped a single plague marine. It means the plague marines number 7 which is more fluffy and I can give the nurgle lord a power fist making him an uber frightening unit.

If you are trying to field the fewest models for the most points then consider crimson slaughter possesed marines. Or you could do fmc spam.

Primary CD

Hq1: What ever that guy is that unlocks dp as heavy
Hq2:Any dp

2x10 plague bearers

Heavy: 3 dp of what ever

Allies: CSM

Belakor
Maybe blackmace dp

Cultist

Maybe drake

Oblit squad.


When you said hq heavy this is what i thought.

Just read this thread. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/585128.page

Although I love the idea, I pretty much have to buy everything on that list, so it's not going to happen!

You're probably going to have to move that Nurgle Lord over to the Plague Marine unit. Don't think you can join units with differing Marks from your own.

I've heard this before... I've read the codex again to make sure I'm not missing anything, and it seems I'm ok. Those rules seem to only be prevalent in the chaos daemons codex. So I'm pretty sure I'm covered.

If you really want to run a list like this, you want to drop Kharn and your lord and run Typhus. Typhus is in terminator armor so deep strike him with your oblits. replace your cultists with zombies. your halfway to your second DP. now


Automatically Appended Next Post:
deep strike near your plagues while still having your iblits viable. sepearte of typhus and attach to plagues. don't want typhus's need to close combat tying up your oblits

....I don't have any oblits in my original list?

I looked at a suggested list. my bad. IMHO. I don't think what your trying to is doable in a 1500


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To get this to work. I think you might want to consider cultist death balls. multiple 35 man cultist squads.

Yeah, I thought excessive amounts of cultists. But I only own 40.

Can you pick MY list apart for me?

Your main issue is that 1500 points isn't enough to do what you want to do. You have no target saturation. Also your chaos lord isn't legal. He has three weapons and two hands.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
you have no target saturation

Eldarain is right, p.30 of the CSM 'dex right at the start of the "Marks of Chaos" box:
-An Independent Character with a Mark of Chaos may not join a unit with a different Mark of Chaos.

What benefit do you see to kitting out the Lord with a PF AND Hand of Darkness? They're both slow and smashy, and if Serg Rush is right about your Lord having too many pieces of war gear (?) then drop the PF or HoD.

I have literally just read that....and what can I say? I don't know why I didn't see it before!

The argument about weapon numbers has been had before. The chaos dex specifically states that some weapons replace the models close combat weapon. The black legion supplement has no such stipulation written down.

As for why the power fist and the hand of darkness, well it entirely depends. If I'm hitting MEQ's I want the lightning claw. The power fist grants me +1 attack as they're both specialist and the hand isn't. If I'm hitting TEQ's I'm going to want to use the power fist. Still keep the same number of attacks and am flattening them. If however I end up next to a wraithknight, I will be using the hand. Initiative order AND instant death wounding on a 2+.....just ashame I can put him with kharn. That's upset me :-(