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So I have a chance to pick up a Strike Team (or possibly two, even). Also, the pledge manager closes this week, so it's pretty much time for me to make a final decision as to whether I'm going to buy and ever play this game or not.

I've obviously not played the game yet, and disregarding any comments, criticism, etc about the models or the way that Mantic handles it's pledge managers - I'm wanting to know what people here think of the rules and gameplay, now that some time has been had to muck around with it.


As a secondary consideration, if I go in, should I get one Strike team or the two of them? If I play, I'll mostly be using GW models for the appropriate factions, so the benefit of a second strike team is pretty much another mousepad mat, more scenery, more plastic enforcers, possibly more forge fathers, and that one cool looking large Strain model. So.. hmm.. I've probably just answered my own question there.

Good game but still feels very much beta. Some of the glaring issues that I had have been rectified with NexusPsi release. Still not Necromunda but that's not necessarily a bad thing. The rulebook isn't laid out any better than a GW book in that you'll be flipping back and forth trying to puzzle out some things.

I've found it to be one of the better tabletop mini games that I've played. It's not quite X-Wing good, but I prefer it over Warhammer. Less models, shorter games, and with less models comes more strategy: you really can't risk throwing away a model at all. Take a 5-man Enforcer team. Lose a single model and you're down 20%. Buildings for cover and model placement are key. Bad judgement will lose you the game-it really does come down to skill.

Hmmm, I am judging it in part by the way that I was horribly, horribly beaten in my first game....

Two big thumbs up!

Very quick play - and the tide of battle can turn fast.

The first three or four games will be a bit of 'Hunt Through The Book' - but then you will find that you don't even look through the book much.

I do not like it quite as much as Necromunda - which I consider the second best game that GW ever produced (Mordheim is the best by far.)

But I do like it a great deal more than any of the recent editions of WH40K.

We have not yet started a real campaign - still waiting on folks to get their factions (yes, Que - I am looking at you), but we already have an Enforcer, two Rebs (including me), two Orx, one Plague (sadly this is because other people just gave them theirs from the starter box - so he does not have all that much variety).

The terrain that we intend to use is a mix of the buildings from the Deadzone box and World Works Platform Command PDFs. (Not a recent build - this PDF set has been around for a while, and it has seen the death of many a Necromunda ganger.)

A few of the parts that I find nifty:
Neither side knows what the other's victory conditions are - and the missions are tailored to the factions. - So Plague get missions that involve getting in and killing folks, and the Rebs (my faction!) have missions that involve going in, fulfilling their objective, then getting back out!

Cover makes it harder to wound your models, but also makes it easier to pin them. A a result their are multiple types of fire - normal fire, and Blaze Away, Blazing away is more for keeping folks pinned than for doing damage.

Overwatch is chancy - the overwatching model may not reeact in time to shoot... or may get lucky, pop off a shot, then go back into overwatch and be ready to fre if another target presents itself.

The Auld Grump

The rules are, to me, nothing short of amazing. The oposed rolling means you are never not involved, the cards mean you have the ability to counteract poor luck but also add an element of resource management. The abstractions for cover are very simple, and on the whole the models are very balanced.

As a ruleset, it's possibly the best I've played, its awesomeness only bettered by the great minis and terrain.

Easily the best ruleset I've seen in the last 5 years (and I even buy indie games off Wargames Vault!) but still has some issues that IMHO stem from lack of properly playtesting specific models.

The core rules are excellent but the developer has a poor grasp of which abilities are actually useful, so model pricing can be off by a fair bit. Stay away from the broken stuff (Guntracks, Mortar Team, Missile Launcher, Nastanza, Hulk) and you have a fantastic game.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Easily the best ruleset I've seen in the last 5 years (and I even buy indie games off Wargames Vault!) but still has some issues that IMHO stem from lack of properly playtesting specific models.

The core rules are excellent but the developer has a poor grasp of which abilities are actually useful, so model pricing can be off by a fair bit. Stay away from the broken stuff (Guntracks, Mortar Team, Missile Launcher, Nastanza, Hulk) and you have a fantastic game.

The track and mortar team have been pretty well nerfed with the nexus psi book with the addition of the crew served weapons rule. If the rules hadn't been rushed into production, a greater period of play testing done and Jake actually playing the game or not forcing the way he thought it should be played into it, we'd have a much tighter ruleset. It's fine as is but also suffers a bit from the expectation that you're going to be playing larger games across multiple mats at some point thus the internal balance issues (I.e.frag and massive frag locking down your opponent the whole game because deployment was per force too scrunched).

Excellent game, but needs a lot of polish with the rules, points values are really odd overall and the campaign rules have a lot of stuff that needs ironing out.

Keep in mind that there's a bit of a CCG metagame attached to it as well. The cards are very powerful.

 Azazelx wrote:


As a secondary consideration, if I go in, should I get one Strike team or the two of them? If I play, I'll mostly be using GW models for the appropriate factions, so the benefit of a second strike team is pretty much another mousepad mat, more scenery, more plastic enforcers, possibly more forge fathers, and that one cool looking large Strain model. So.. hmm.. I've probably just answered my own question there.

Can't you add the things you want to the second survey?

Three games in and I'm loving it and can't wait to play more.

Definitely worth the price of admission.

And of course use whatever models you want, Azazelx. The only think you really need are the faction cards, rulebook, tokens, game mat, a giant pile of d8's (we've found at least 10 per person) and piles of terrain (be sure to get the Antenociti's Workshop terrain, it's very useful for scatter/cube cover)

One of my gaming buddies was watching one of the games I was playing and then went and bought the main Deadzone box the next day, hahah.

It is genuinely the best tabletop game I've played.

For gameplay, I'd just say simply: "Imagine X-Com: Enemy Unknown on the tabletop" - it's that awesome.

 scarletsquig wrote:
Excellent game, but needs a lot of polish with the rules, points values are really odd overall and the campaign rules have a lot of stuff that needs ironing out.
Keep in mind that there's a bit of a CCG metagame attached to it as well. The cards are very powerful.

Aren't all of the cards readily available in the PM, though in the decks? I think the only ones I'd be missing out on are the MA ones, which I forgot to add to my PM.

 CptJake wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:


As a secondary consideration, if I go in, should I get one Strike team or the two of them? If I play, I'll mostly be using GW models for the appropriate factions, so the benefit of a second strike team is pretty much another mousepad mat, more scenery, more plastic enforcers, possibly more forge fathers, and that one cool looking large Strain model. So.. hmm.. I've probably just answered my own question there.

Can't you add the things you want to the second survey?

Oh, of course. I was wondering if I should get the second ST level that I have the option for or just get the one. ST of course has another mat, terrain, and lots of figures, but the thing I guess is how much I'd want another set of the ST figures, characters, rulebooks, etc vs just picking up a couple of things in the survey.

 judgedoug wrote:
Three games in and I'm loving it and can't wait to play more.

And of course use whatever models you want, Azazelx. The only think you really need are the faction cards, rulebook, tokens, game mat, a giant pile of d8's (we've found at least 10 per person) and piles of terrain (be sure to get the Antenociti's Workshop terrain, it's very useful for scatter/cube cover)

Yeah, Eldar for Asterians, Orks for Orx, Necromunda Gangers and random Hasslefree/Grenadier/Judge Dredd/etc figures for Rebs, IG for MA infantry (if I get the decks), etc. Enforcers might stay as Enforcers, perhaps with Space Marines as a second faction - and a mix of the official figures and other greeblies (like the SW models) for the Strain. And Forgefathers + Squats for Forgefathers.

 Compel wrote:
It is genuinely the best tabletop game I've played.

For gameplay, I'd just say simply: "Imagine X-Com: Enemy Unknown on the tabletop" - it's that awesome.

I dunno if it can be that good...

It really does feel heavily inspired by X-Com, in my opinion. I pretty much directly lifted my tactics from the game onto the tabletop for it.

Have you looked at the *basic* demo game for it that the Beasts of War guys did?




There should be a proper full game demo out at some point too.

It's very good - not my favorite tabletop game of all time. that honor would be, and still is, Space Hulk 1st edition. Best memories ever of being a kid and playing through the entire campaign one summer night with my brother while we listened to Metallica. But, err, yeah, the three games I've played so far have all been excellent. I'm hoping to get another two in this next weekend. Honestly both this and Dreadball have been the best board-style games I've played in the last few years. Mantic may be super hit or miss with minis and service but they keep churning out excellent rulesets.

OK you guys have sold me on it. I'll pick up a strike team. Now, is there any compelling reason to get a second ST that anyone can think of before I discount that entirely?

Probably worth getting one strike team the. A scenery bundle rather than two strike teams.m

I think you'd get more minis, and a greater variety of minis, if you go for 4 booster bundles and 2 battlezones for the same price as the second strike team.

If you do that, you miss:

1 different faction starter (if you choose so).
1 extra map. And 1 paper map.
Duplicates of the Mercenaries
Duplicate rulebook.
More Dice


The booster bundles effectively give you the vasty majority of another faction starter again, plus 2 packs of the 'booster' troops.

Plus, of course, with the 2 extra battlezones, they can be any ones you choose, not just more core worlds.

Yeah, I have buckets of scenery coming from the MA survey, so that's already covered. Probably won't spring for the AW resin scenery though. It's nice, but not cheap and I have too much else to pay for.

I'm thinking just some FFs, Enforcers and Peacekeepers and Zombies. I may only end up with the one mousepad mat, but then, if SWM ever delivers on their KS, the squares there are 1" or 1.5" (from memory), so should be mildly-cross-compatible with DZ anyway.

Unless people think it would really be worthwhile buying 3 additional mats (for a total of 4?) I don't want to burn money, but if it seems like it would actually be useful and realistic to play on 4x4, then I won't mind shelling out so much.

 Azazelx wrote:
Yeah, I have buckets of scenery coming from the MA survey, so that's already covered. Probably won't spring for the AW resin scenery though. It's nice, but not cheap and I have too much else to pay for.

I'm thinking just some FFs, Enforcers and Peacekeepers and Zombies. I may only end up with the one mousepad mat, but then, if SWM ever delivers on their KS, the squares there are 1" or 1.5" (from memory), so should be mildly-cross-compatible with DZ anyway.

Unless people think it would really be worthwhile buying 3 additional mats (for a total of 4?) I don't want to burn money, but if it seems like it would actually be useful and realistic to play on 4x4, then I won't mind shelling out so much.

I bought four on the initial survey and while I've only used one playing Deadzone so far, all four together do make a nice urban 4' x 4' mat for our games of Judge Dredd. You don't feel bad when a metal figure falls over by accident, haha.
I'm looking forward to playing DZ on larger playfields too (I mean the sniper has a range of 10 - so long range of 20 - and the mat is only 8 squares long)

You get the paper at in the kickstarter too, so you can get away with only two more. I think more mats might be worth it though, as, due to the Nexus Psi new rules, the big mortars and the like are only really useful on the huge games.

Personally, I am not impressed with the AW stuff much at all. You're far better off getting more accessory sprues in my mind. The only thing I rate for them is the item crates.

$50 for 3 extra mats is a bit harsh, I plan on getting a 4x4' MDF board and just airbrushing the grid. That should cost me under $10 total.

I'd second Compel's advice for getting BOGOF booster bundles and more battlezones over a second Strike Team for sure.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Compel wrote:
It really does feel heavily inspired by X-Com, in my opinion.

And X-Com (the new one) is heavily inspired by Necromunda, so we've almost come full circle

I like it in concept, but as people have said it lacks polish. I just can't get behind it as of yet; I find it far too fast and confusing, and the rulebook is laid out quite oddly. Hopefully Nexus Psi will relieve this when I pick it up, but I feel Mantic shoved it a bit out of the door, pants or not.

However, I do see potential, and the models are lovely, so I'll keep a close watch.

Lacks polish seems to spread to almost everything mantic do.m

Hmm, I didn't have any problems, but I have been experiencing Myth recently, which has the worst rulebook in the history of mankind.

OK, so I got me a Strike Team coming. Thanks for the feedback guys. Now I just need to hope it's as good as y'all claim.

 Compel wrote:
It is genuinely the best tabletop game I've played.

For gameplay, I'd just say simply: "Imagine X-Com: Enemy Unknown on the tabletop" - it's that awesome.

It would be pretty easy to do an X-Com game using these rules....

I might need to come up with rules for Chrysalids.... *shudder*

The Auld Grump - who still plays the original X-Com....

It's a very good game and one of the few I've seen that actually gets across how suppression-heavy modern skirmishes are (the only other games that tend toward this are ones that come from modern-simulationist families like Stargrunt II and FoF/Tomorrow's War) while also making more sci-fi staples (like horrible gribbly close combat abominations) useful (if not downright frightening).

I also like love how weapon roles and niches are done in the game using a more hard-emulation style rather than trying to perfectly simulate things. It is fairly abstract, but I think that works in its favour. Basic small-arms, sniper rifles, SAWs, and BFGs all have their own distinct battlefield role and you never feel silly for bringing them along (for the most part). Rather than turning a SAW in to a better rifle, it becomes a suppression-king that can force almost anything to keep its head down. Basic rifles get to double-dip in to focused fire and suppression (but seldom excel at either). Snipers definitely feel ultra-deadly once you get them situated (but they are easily stunlocked by suppression, so they need support of their own to get going).

I also love how tightly integrated the card mechanics are, they don't feel like an afterthought as they often can. The game was 100% designed with their use in mind and proper use of cards can get a force really humming along. Having every card be dual-use was quite inspired, actually. You will almost never have a truly dead draw that wont be useful for something. And the way it interacts with the command and control mechanics in general is great. The game as a whole is a definite contender for being my favourite small-squad skirmish game.

It still has some hiccups here and there (and honestly, I have yet to play a single small-squad game that doesn't have at least several glaring ones), but it still seems like a rule set in flux and it had a very strong start. I'll be interested to see how it is once the full compendium is out and all the extra playtesting has been put in to effect. I'll have to go back over Nexus Psi to see how the indirect fix went since the guntrack was a bit of an issue in the original rules.

Either way, my group adored it (though our campaign has been on hiatus for the last little while).

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 Compel wrote:
It is genuinely the best tabletop game I've played.

For gameplay, I'd just say simply: "Imagine X-Com: Enemy Unknown on the tabletop" - it's that awesome.

It would be pretty easy to do an X-Com game using these rules....

I might need to come up with rules for Chrysalids.... *shudder*

The Auld Grump - who still plays the original X-Com....

Never played the original. How does it hold up?

 carlos13th wrote:
Never played the original. How does it hold up?

It's a much more in-depth and less gamey experience.

You're not artificially limited to responding to only 1 of 3 terror sites, for example. They pop up individually, and even if you have several going on at once you can respond to them all if you have enough soldiers and enough Skyrangers. Cause you can actually buy extra Skyrangers. And extra X-Com bases, too. You can even build alien-human hybrid aircraft. Which can fly to Mars. It's awesome. Eventually you can detect and shoot down alien transports before they even launch a terror attack. If you can stomach VGA graphics, the original is still the better game.

Oh, but there is one area where the old graphics beat the new - bullet trajectories. You know how in XCOM there's just an animation of a soldier firing vaguely in the direction of the alien (or sometimes backwards, or out of his arse, or whatever), and then there's an animation of the alien either getting hit or not, with nothing actually in between? In the original, you can actually see bullets fly and if you have a good eye you will be able to tell whether they're going to hit or not, even from several screen away, and you can actually see on the screen which body part is hit (and the game does track individual body part damage).

May have to pick up a copy.