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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/26 16:50:40
Subject: Are Tau overpowered?
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Fixture of Dakka
Temple Prime
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OzTeG8ndPwRfl wrote:They have 5 wounds, and if 40 guard fire with first rank fire second rank fire at one riptide, that amounts to 120 dice. 60 hit, 10 wound. on average. And this does not include their lascannon... it is just stupid devastating. He hides his tanks behind the guard which are in turn behind the defense line, so I can't get close enough to use melta, and I am glancing him on 5's and they get a 4+ cover save... it is hard to beat. Especially considering those 30 man guard blobs are intended to take down monstrous creatures like my riptides, and my broadsides get wiped by the plasma tanks so fast it makes me sad. Guard are one of the better matches for Tau in this edition from what I have seen. Guard and Daemons... I hate Daemons... Invulnerable saves on everything and they always get to melee... Takes a lot of work to beat them.
150 shots from 50 guardsmen (assuming you get within 12'' by some miracle, like your opponent having an IQ somewhere between a creationist and a particularly dull witted rock)
75 will hit.
Only a sixth of these wound.
12.5 wounds.
Only a sixth of these get by the armor save.
2.08333333333 wounds.
Only 2/3rds of this get by feel no pain.
1.38888888889 wounds.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/26 16:55:24
Midnightdeathblade wrote:Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/26 16:52:08
Subject: Are Tau overpowered?
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Ferocious Black Templar Castellan
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OzTeG8ndPwRfl wrote:They have 5 wounds, and if 40 guard fire with first rank fire second rank fire at one riptide, that amounts to 120 dice. 60 hit, 10 wound. on average. And this does not include their lascannon... it is just stupid devastating.
10 wounds after 2+ armour and FNP is 1.111... wounds. Your 40 Guardsmen who are somehow magically all in Rapid Fire range of a Riptide and Order range simultaneously did a little more than a fifth of that Riptide's wounds.
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For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/26 16:55:28
Subject: Are Tau overpowered?
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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And that is why MC's shouldn't have 2+ armor. It's multplicatively more useful for them than for T4 models.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/26 17:16:07
Subject: Are Tau overpowered?
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Fixture of Dakka
Temple Prime
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Martel732 wrote:And that is why MC's shouldn't have 2+ armor. It's multplicatively more useful for them than for T4 models.
What is dumb is them rocking a great invulnerable save and FNP in addition to having a bucket load of wounds that can only really by ID'd by the rapidly shrinking number of weapons that dish out instant death without needing to roll for it while still being able to reliably get a wound in the first place.
You don't see anyone complaining about the Tyrannofex or Armored Shell Tyrants (before they were removed to force you to join the flyrant master race as part of a nerfing of literally any other tyranid HQ option).
What makes the Riptide so aggravating is that it has a pinpoint accurate large blast that instant deaths most infantry models and ignores their saves unless they're lucky enough to have an invulnerable save or have T5+ and FNP. This gun has incredible range on a highly maneuverable model that has five wounds, standard MC toughness, a two plus armor save, a five plus invulnerable save it can turn into a three plus save, the option for ablative wounds in missile drones, and the option for FNP. All for a price that is reasonably affordable, whereas say, Be'Lakor breaks the bank at 350 points.
A monstrous creature with a 2+ save and a lot of wounds isn't particularly problematic. Especially as there are a boat-load of options to spam enough AP2 to reliably gut most MCs these days, with the major limitation being range.
Hell, even a fortuned wraithknight with a shield or conceal isn't too awful. But that's mostly because the Wraith-knight has comparatively dinkier guns and isn't quite as good at getting out of combats it doesn't want to be in. The Riptide though can keep away from most AP2+ save for bikes and lascannons, and if it can't flee, it can just nova it's shield and laugh all day long because a 3++ on a five wound model with FNP is still capable of weathering most onslaughts. If it's a Taudar list, it may even have fortune/that other reroll your saves power from divination because actually taking wounds is for suckers.
To my knowledge, the only other MCs that have access to invulnerable saves of that caliber without needing to hope for a good BRB roll are Tzeentch Daemons, and Tzeentch Daemon shooting is curtailed by the mediocrity of their psyker power options.
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Midnightdeathblade wrote:Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/26 17:30:15
Subject: Are Tau overpowered?
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Dakka Veteran
Reading - UK
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Tau are overpowered because other armies had to look at stupidness like Screamerstar to even get close to a Tau gunline.
Little else could do it apart from Drop Pods and then you still potentially had to deal with Intercept.
Someone in play testing really liked Tau which is unfortunate because now 40k is a little on the broken side to the point of trying to include super heavies to fix glaring obvious mistakes.
Now all of the other codices suffer because of 2 over powered dex's.
I still like the challenge though. I have a game against a friend this week and I'll take my Nids to his Tau just for funz.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/03/26 17:30:38
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/26 17:58:58
Subject: Re:Are Tau overpowered?
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Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard
Catskills in NYS
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If we got rid of overwatch altogether, and got rid of riptides, would tau be OP in your mind?
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Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote:Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote:Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens BaronIveagh wrote:Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/26 18:18:57
Subject: Re:Are Tau overpowered?
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Fixture of Dakka
Temple Prime
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Co'tor Shas wrote:If we got rid of overwatch altogether, and got rid of riptides, would tau be OP in your mind?
I dislike paying for cover saves only for BS5 scrubs to ignore them and gun down my troops with a ridiculous bucket load of S5 shots and jetpacking plasma/melta shots while any attempt to get into the air gets no-sold by dozens if not more than a hundred S7 AP4 hits.
Or having to deal with AV13 tanks that get a 4+ cover save because they moved a millimeter this turn.
Or a farsight bomb dropping right in my face.
Or the soul crushing monstrosity that is Taudar.
Now mind you, even Taudar isn't as bad as 7e Daemons of Chaos were in WHFB, but it's easily the new Grey Knights.
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Midnightdeathblade wrote:Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/26 18:22:36
Subject: Re:Are Tau overpowered?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Being able to do that with the ion accelerator isn't part of the riptides stats. In order to be able to have a riptide that ignores cover and is super accurate you need to add a further 100pt squad of very vulnerable pathfinders to the cost of the unit. These have to remain stationary to fire, need good placement to get line of sight to match that of the riptide and because they have a shorter range than the ion accelerator at only 36'', half that of the ion. This is close enough for the pathfinder squad to be neutralized or pinned by light small arms fire. Only losing two guys forces a morale check and at ld8 they have a good chance of failing assuming they even have a shasui. So its not a perfect fit and a few things have to come together in order to be able to do that.
Basically, synergy where you have to have an entire vulnerable unit dedicated to support should give you powerful benefits greater than simply saving the points to buy more killing units. You're paying more than half the value of another riptide in order to simply boost the abilities of a single unit; which is a gamble based on that units sheer vulnerability to even modest counter fire.
Plus, again, Tau battlesuits have always been able to fire two weapons. This is not new so complaining about a rule that was around when the army was considered borderline unusable make no sense.
Feel no pain is an expensive 35 pts upgrade and not part of the basic riptides stats.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/26 18:25:22
Starting Sons of Horus Legion
Starting Daughters of Khaine
2000pts Sisters of Silence
4000pts Fists Legion
Sylvaneth A forest
III Legion 5000pts
XIII Legion 9000pts
Hive Fleet Khadrim 5000pts
Kabal of the Torn Lotus .4000pts
Coalition of neo Sacea 5000pts
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/26 18:23:29
Subject: Re:Are Tau overpowered?
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Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard
Catskills in NYS
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Kain wrote: Co'tor Shas wrote:If we got rid of overwatch altogether, and got rid of riptides, would tau be OP in your mind?
I dislike paying for cover saves only for BS5 scrubs to ignore them and gun down my troops with a ridiculous bucket load of S5 shots and jetpacking plasma/melta shots while any attempt to get into the air gets no-sold by dozens if not more than a hundred S7 AP4 hits.
Or having to deal with AV13 tanks that get a 4+ cover save because they moved a millimeter this turn.
Or a farsight bomb dropping right in my face.
Or the soul crushing monstrosity that is Taudar.
Now mind you, even Taudar isn't as bad as 7e Daemons of Chaos were in WHFB, but it's easily the new Grey Knights.
Lets see.... almost nothing we couldn't do with the old codex other than the taudar, but that's not a problem with the tau codex, that's a problem with the eldar codex and the rulebook.
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Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote:Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote:Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens BaronIveagh wrote:Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/26 18:25:46
Subject: Are Tau overpowered?
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Member of the Ethereal Council
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One Word, Tetras. Those things are evil. They seem Impossible to kill for some reason. I mean, put them behind a ruin where you can still SEE the unit your shooting those ML only need to hit.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/26 18:28:13
Subject: Re:Are Tau overpowered?
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Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard
Catskills in NYS
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Well, tretas wer defetly overpowerd with the 4 shot markerlight and free disruption pod  . They we evil fun. They did get nerfed though, ML changed from heavy 4 to heavy 2 TL, loss of free disruption pod, and I think they are more expensive now.
It's also not part of the tau codex, but still.
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Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote:Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote:Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens BaronIveagh wrote:Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/26 18:29:53
Subject: Re:Are Tau overpowered?
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Fixture of Dakka
Temple Prime
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Totalwar1402 wrote:Being able to do that with the ion accelerator isn't part of the riptides stats. In order to be able to have a riptide that ignores cover and is super accurate you need to add a further 100pt squad of very vulnerable pathfinders to the cost of the unit. These have to remain stationary to fire, need good placement to get line of sight to match that of the riptide and because they have a shorter range than the ion accelerator at only 36'', half that of the ion. This is close enough for the pathfinder squad to be neutralized or pinned by light small arms fire. Only losing two guys forces a morale check and at ld8 they have a good chance of failing assuming they even have a shasui. So its not a perfect fit and a few things have to come together in order to be able to do that.
Basically, synergy where you have to have an entire vulnerable unit dedicated to support should give you powerful benefits greater than simply saving the points to buy more killing units. You're paying more than half the value of another riptide in order to simply boost the abilities of a single unit; which is a gamble based on that units sheer vulnerability to even modest counter fire.
Plus, again, Tau battlesuits have always been able to fire two weapons. This is not new so complaining about a rule that was around when the army was considered borderline unusable make no sense.
Pathfinders are far from the only unit with markerlights, and in Taudar, markerlights aren't as needed to increase accuracy because they get guide for free.
Drone squads are expendable and tough enough with shield drones, Tetras spew out markerlights all over the place, Remoras give you flying markerlights,
And again, neither the Tau nor the Eldar alone are the most griped about army, it's Taudar. But far be it from me to question the Gue'ves'a public relations defence cadre. Automatically Appended Next Post: Co'tor Shas wrote: Kain wrote: Co'tor Shas wrote:If we got rid of overwatch altogether, and got rid of riptides, would tau be OP in your mind?
I dislike paying for cover saves only for BS5 scrubs to ignore them and gun down my troops with a ridiculous bucket load of S5 shots and jetpacking plasma/melta shots while any attempt to get into the air gets no-sold by dozens if not more than a hundred S7 AP4 hits.
Or having to deal with AV13 tanks that get a 4+ cover save because they moved a millimeter this turn.
Or a farsight bomb dropping right in my face.
Or the soul crushing monstrosity that is Taudar.
Now mind you, even Taudar isn't as bad as 7e Daemons of Chaos were in WHFB, but it's easily the new Grey Knights.
Lets see.... almost nothing we couldn't do with the old codex other than the taudar, but that's not a problem with the tau codex, that's a problem with the eldar codex and the rulebook.
Pfft, as if Old Tau could dump out several dozen shots from a cheap as chips squad of fire-warriors.
Or had Ethereals who did something other than give your enemy an easy thing to headshot and run your entire army off the table.
But again, the GLORIOUS GUE'VES'A PR DEFENCE CADRE must never be questioned;
Automatically Appended Next Post: Co'tor Shas wrote:Well, tretas wer defetly overpowerd with the 4 shot markerlight and free disruption pod  . They we evil fun. They did get nerfed though, ML changed from heavy 4 to heavy 2 TL, loss of free disruption pod, and I think they are more expensive now.
It's also not part of the tau codex, but still.
Lol no, they're cheaper now.
Three of them are only twelve points away from being as cheap as a pathfinder and devilfish.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/03/26 18:32:54
Midnightdeathblade wrote:Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/26 18:33:35
Subject: Re:Are Tau overpowered?
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Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard
Catskills in NYS
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Taudar is not a problem with tau, but a problem with the rulebook and eldar. Remoras and tetras are FW. Drones are more expensive than FWs or Pathfinders, in fact they cost as much as SMs in the drone teams.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/26 18:33:38
Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote:Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote:Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens BaronIveagh wrote:Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/26 18:35:29
Subject: Are Tau overpowered?
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Mighty Vampire Count
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Like Eldar - the Tau are not OP - several units are and make other units in their own codex laughable.
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I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page
A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/26 18:36:13
Subject: Are Tau overpowered?
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Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard
Catskills in NYS
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Mr Morden wrote:Like Eldar - the Tau are not OP - several units are and make other units in their own codex laughable.
Exactly.
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Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote:Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote:Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens BaronIveagh wrote:Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/26 18:38:24
Subject: Are Tau overpowered?
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Infiltrating Broodlord
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Mr Morden wrote:Like Eldar - the Tau are not OP - several units are and make other units in their own codex laughable.
If a codex has several units that are OP then that codex is also OP.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/26 18:40:40
Subject: Re:Are Tau overpowered?
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Fixture of Dakka
Temple Prime
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test removed.
Reds8n
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/03/28 11:11:00
Midnightdeathblade wrote:Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/26 18:45:45
Subject: Are Tau overpowered?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Aren't the tetra and remora forge world units?
Markerlight drones are mobile but they're more expensive than a pathfinder and only BS2. So you need more of them in order to compensate for reduced accuracy. They also can't claim cover due to being on flying bases. With the limited range this still leaves them vulnerable to counter fire.
This can of course be circumvented by giving a tau commander a drone controller. However, this can mean putting all of your eggs in one basket and its a very particular niche strategy to use. The assumption is always that most marker lights should come from footbound pathfinders. Hence why they sell models for plastic pathfinders and the only way to get access to a single marker drone model is if you buy a stealth team (might be some in the newer broadside box I think). This only came through digging through the rules and isn't about the army being inherently in-balanced or markerlights being inherently inbalanced.
Incidently, I have countered this markerlight drone spam before. Basically by focusing fire on the drone commander unit until the commander died. This broke a lot of the synergy of the rival tau players army as his remaining drones couldn't reliably support the rest of his army.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/26 18:51:15
Starting Sons of Horus Legion
Starting Daughters of Khaine
2000pts Sisters of Silence
4000pts Fists Legion
Sylvaneth A forest
III Legion 5000pts
XIII Legion 9000pts
Hive Fleet Khadrim 5000pts
Kabal of the Torn Lotus .4000pts
Coalition of neo Sacea 5000pts
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/26 18:56:47
Subject: Are Tau overpowered?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I don't play taudar, this topic regards the tau (singular), at my club the allies, fortification and escalation matrix's are frowned on and banned in official games. They're not accepted as part of the official rules. Nor is use of forge world models. To all intents and purposes, the use of such models is illegal and they are not part of the tau 6th edition codex.
Nothing I said in my post was about taudar or that combo. So quoting yourself bitching about the taudar is nonsensical as I was discussing markerlights.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/26 18:57:39
Starting Sons of Horus Legion
Starting Daughters of Khaine
2000pts Sisters of Silence
4000pts Fists Legion
Sylvaneth A forest
III Legion 5000pts
XIII Legion 9000pts
Hive Fleet Khadrim 5000pts
Kabal of the Torn Lotus .4000pts
Coalition of neo Sacea 5000pts
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/26 19:05:20
Subject: Are Tau overpowered?
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Fixture of Dakka
Temple Prime
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Totalwar1402 wrote:I don't play taudar, this topic regards the tau (singular), at my club the allies, fortification and escalation matrix's are frowned on and banned in official games. They're not accepted as part of the official rules. Nor is use of forge world models. To all intents and purposes, the use of such models is illegal and they are not part of the tau 6th edition codex.
Nothing I said in my post was about taudar or that combo. So quoting yourself bitching about the taudar is nonsensical as I was discussing markerlights.
Then your club is playing with arbitrary house-rules and is about as relevant to a discussion of why the Tau are part of the problem with current 40k as Dawn of War 2 Retribution.
You are dismissed.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/26 19:05:38
Midnightdeathblade wrote:Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/26 19:17:54
Subject: Are Tau overpowered?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I am sorry, you've clearly misread the title of my OP.
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Starting Sons of Horus Legion
Starting Daughters of Khaine
2000pts Sisters of Silence
4000pts Fists Legion
Sylvaneth A forest
III Legion 5000pts
XIII Legion 9000pts
Hive Fleet Khadrim 5000pts
Kabal of the Torn Lotus .4000pts
Coalition of neo Sacea 5000pts
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/26 19:22:26
Subject: Are Tau overpowered?
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Mighty Vampire Count
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Totalwar1402 wrote:I don't play taudar, this topic regards the tau (singular), at my club the allies, fortification and escalation matrix's are frowned on and banned in official games. They're not accepted as part of the official rules. Nor is use of forge world models. To all intents and purposes, the use of such models is illegal and they are not part of the tau 6th edition codex.
Nothing I said in my post was about taudar or that combo. So quoting yourself bitching about the taudar is nonsensical as I was discussing markerlights.
So you have all banned lots of things that you see as broken or simply don't like (no matter how actually official or benign they are) but are happy to use all the "broken" Codex units - well that sounds like fun..................I wonder why people think the Tau are OP - maybe because you have helped make any in game problems worse and of coruse as Tau player are quite happy to enjoy this?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/26 19:23:52
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page
A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/26 19:31:13
Subject: Are Tau overpowered?
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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If the Tau player can bubblewrap skillfully, markerlights become very difficult for TAC marine lists to eliminate in time. By in time, I mean before the Tau have crippled your list.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/26 19:34:45
Subject: Are Tau overpowered?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Mr Morden wrote: Totalwar1402 wrote:I don't play taudar, this topic regards the tau (singular), at my club the allies, fortification and escalation matrix's are frowned on and banned in official games. They're not accepted as part of the official rules. Nor is use of forge world models. To all intents and purposes, the use of such models is illegal and they are not part of the tau 6th edition codex.
Nothing I said in my post was about taudar or that combo. So quoting yourself bitching about the taudar is nonsensical as I was discussing markerlights.
So you have all banned lots of things that you see as broken or simply don't like (no matter how actually official or benign they are) but are happy to use all the "broken" Codex units - well that sounds like fun..................I wonder why people think the Tau are OP - maybe because you have helped make any in game problems worse and of coruse as Tau player are quite happy to enjoy this?
I do not make the tournie rules or define the general culture at my wargames club. They have their reasons for disliking the allies system, forge world models and escalation supplements; a lot of which has to do with a dislike of GW as a company. Nor do I particularly ascribe to their opinion; but a distinction needs to be made between the core tau army and the unrelated things like allies.
If you read my OP these people do argue that the tau are over powered. However, banning an entire army would be going too far; even for them. They just don't like it and have an obnoxious, in your face attitude if you are playing tau or suggest you would like to use a wraithknight in your dark eldar army for instance. Its bizarre because they've been asking me pay to enter the new tournie for weeks on the basis of "you came second last time; you could win this time"; but still bitch and complain about me using tau.
Frankly most of them play horus heresy now anyway.
Sorry, if I am paying to enter a tournie for prizes or doing a themed campaign where I have an incentive to win why on earth would I not build my list to win within the constraints?
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/03/26 19:39:17
Starting Sons of Horus Legion
Starting Daughters of Khaine
2000pts Sisters of Silence
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Sylvaneth A forest
III Legion 5000pts
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Hive Fleet Khadrim 5000pts
Kabal of the Torn Lotus .4000pts
Coalition of neo Sacea 5000pts
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/26 19:45:12
Subject: Re:Are Tau overpowered?
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Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard
Catskills in NYS
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Kain wrote: Co'tor Shas wrote:Taudar is not a problem with tau, but a problem with the rulebook and eldar. Remoras and tetras are FW. Drones are more expensive than FWs or Pathfinders, in fact they cost as much as SMs in the drone teams. Persistent are you? If the Tau are so awful like you say, they wouldn't be an integral part of the single most dominating army in the meta now would they? Taudar is as powerful as it is because it is mixing the Tau and the Eldar. If the Tau were so bad, the dominating list would just be Eldar or Eldyanden, why weaken themselves with the Tau? Pretending it's all the Eldar or the rulebook's fault is seriously dumb and you should feel dumb just for suggesting that's the case. The real explanation for why the combo is so broken is simple. Everyone in GW is criminally incompetent and would be sent out in the streets to live in a cardboard box in a less pants on head idiotic company. Hence you get codex after codex made by people who cannot into internal or external balance. And IDGAF if something is forgeworld or not, it's a legal and valid option for the army just as Knights are legal and valid things for a Guard player to throw at you or how someone is perfectly entitled to show up to a game with Aetaeos'Rau'Keres. But of course, the Gue'ves'a PR defence brigade won't hear a word against their precious army.
I never said that the tau codex was bad. What I said was that it is not all OP. The tau codex, for the large part, has not changed. Taudar has nothing to do with tau OPness. And I would be greatful if you knocked off all the personal and non-directed personal attacks. What we are talking about is the Tau Codex. Not FW. Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just to get this out of the way. I think that Codex: Tau Empire is OP. This does not however mean the everything in it is OP. We could easily take out the OP things and make tau relatively balanced (about as balanced as anything is these days). You can easily play without those things, riptides for example. I have found that just not using riptides makes the codex much better to play with and against.
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/03/26 19:53:02
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/27 06:52:40
Subject: Are Tau overpowered?
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Trustworthy Shas'vre
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L0rdF1end wrote:Tau are overpowered because other armies had to look at stupidness like Screamerstar to even get close to a Tau gunline.
Little else could do it apart from Drop Pods and then you still potentially had to deal with Intercept.
Someone in play testing really liked Tau which is unfortunate because now 40k is a little on the broken side to the point of trying to include super heavies to fix glaring obvious mistakes.
Now all of the other codices suffer because of 2 over powered dex's.
I still like the challenge though. I have a game against a friend this week and I'll take my Nids to his Tau just for funz.
I have not lost a game to the new tau yet, even with nids.
Seriously people, unless they are running riptide spam, tau are not hard to beat - I hate to say it, it just comes down to the basics.
play the mission
leverage your strengths against their weakness
you don't have to kill a unit, you just have to make it ineffective.
My last game against tau (necrons) I did not even bother to kill the riptide. Its only going to kill one thing a turn, maybe. Big deal. Sure, he contested one objective with it....but had no troops for any of the others.
Kill the markerlights, then kill the troops.
Tau troops die like flies in a bonfire. A t3 troop with a 4 up save? Yes please.
Worried about overwatch? Unless its suits with twin linked burst cannons and the counter fire upgrade, I usually lose only a model or two.
hit them with two units, let them declare overwatch on your garbage unit, or your unit with better saves. Gee, look. My scrabs declare first. Overwatch way. Here come the wraiths.
(actually, you don't even need wraiths, against tau troops...even crappy necron warriors are better than tau troops in assault, I used my wraiths to quickly catch the puretide buff commander - he never had a chance).
A few army specific tactics.
Eldar:
The wave serpent mocks tau infantry. Cover save, oh, you are so cute. Here shasowsun, make 27 saves. What? you are t3 and only need to fail one? Aww....
Oh, a riptide...meet my D scythes, lances, and psychic powers.
Nids:
Say hello to an acid spray or crone. byebye firewarriors or pathfinders
Biovores LOVE pathfinders and warriors. Kroot are just tissue.
Look, a riptide? my 80 points of gargoyles will tie you up for the game.
Dont have gargoyles?, hit the riptide with paroxysm too...ws1 is just fun. Flying tyrant, go kill him now.
Hello mr crisis suit, can you say vector strike is ap3 no cover? I knew you could. Oh, was that shadowsun, your 2+ cover save in a ruin? aww...so sad.
Hey, look, and ethereal, wow, free victory points, biovores...fire!
Wait, you thought I was going to charge your firewarriors with my 30man gant squad? naa...here are 90 devourers....make 40 saves you 4+ models you.
Hey pathfindrers - wait, finally something I can pin!! see how well your markerlights work at BS1.
SM
Can you say grav guns or an auspex? I knew you could.
How about a thunderfire cannon for those pathfdiners relying on that ruin for cover. See ya.
Riptides love snipers and grav guns.
Look a riptide, send in the assualt marines. Wait, he will kill one of us a turn...oh, wait, that means we tie him up for the game for a 100 point unit. um...ok.
Necrons
Wow, finally something worse in CC than a necron warrior....amazing.
Tie up that riptide with a squad of warriors...it will take him a week to kill them all.
CSM
Sonic weapons = dead pathfinders and scoring units.
Assault the riptide - he is terrible in CC
Helldrakes love roasting tau just as much as roasting marines. See those pathfinders in the ruins....not any more.
Guard:
Hey crisis suits, like my battle cannon?
Broadsides are vaporized by vendettas....kill the 4+ save shield drones with mortars first.
Riptide? Yeah, thats nice. here are my conscripts. have fun, you will kill one a round. Mr commisar says so.
Oh, those pathfinders (without whom the riptide is almost useless) back there...every hear the sound of a colossus shell? You will....
Or wait, you put a drone with your riptide? Meet my psykers and weaken resolve...look, I killed your drone...wait? you failed your morale test because of a toaster? thats cute, have a nice day.
Dark Angels
Riptides love plasma, plasma on bikes are even better. Or put azrael in a squad of even basic marines, they will own him.
Overwatch? I am assaulting you with three bike squads, and some termies. You get to fire once. Look...I declared the termies first....enjoy my 2+ saves. You have plasma, or I declared my other unit first. Aww...you killed a tac marine. How nice. Now die.
Gee too bad you don't have cheap librarians...oh, wait, you do! Tau have psychic defense right? oh, wait.
Look, its farsight! Bummer he is T4, and the strength of my power fist is....oh? So sad.
Hey look, we have blind attacks...what was the init on those pathfinders again? Gee, they can't hit anything with their markers now? Cry me a river of blue skinned tears.
etc.
I saw a guy with two riptides the other day....he only had 24 firewarriors. I would have owned him.
The guy he played - yep, focused on the riptides, did not even shoot at the pathfinders, and forgot the eteheral has NO SAVE, and is worth an extra VP.
He lost, complained tau were " OP".
The tau guy, had horrible deployment - I would have erased his pathfinders on turn one, and the firewarriors by turn two, and made him cry for his momma.
Most games i see lost to tau (or almost ANY game) are due to the basics;
- poor target priority
- not playing to the mission
- getting distracted by an annoying unit.
- not taking advantage of their weakness.
Really, not trying to be a jerk, or use the usual "L2play" here. The new tau codex is indeed a strong book, and yeah, riptide spam is quite annoying I admit.
(so is dreadknight spam, or wave serpent spam, or white scars counts as, or DCA+crusaders+priest+ read grenade inquisitor, etc.).
Are the new tau strong? Yes, yes they are. Do they have their weaknesses a good player can take advantage of them? Sure, once they actually pay attention to the game.
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DavePak
"Remember, in life, the only thing you absolutely control is your own attitude - do not squander that power."
Fully Painted armies:
TAU: 10k Nids: 9600 Marines: 4000 Crons: 7600
Actor, Gamer, Comic, Corporate Nerd
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/27 08:16:03
Subject: Are Tau overpowered?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Oh wait you did. Can you tell me how to get conscripts in to melee range with tau against a model that is faster then them and has 2-3 friends and not get killed while crossing the board ?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/27 08:17:58
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/27 08:20:13
Subject: Are Tau overpowered?
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Focused Fire Warrior
New Zealand
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Yes. Yes they are.
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6000pts
3000pts
1500pts
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/27 08:22:08
Subject: Are Tau overpowered?
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Dakka Veteran
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Wasn't an article published on reddit/BoLS/Faeit 212 a few months that interviewed a GW exec that more or less came out & said:
"The Tau/Eldar codices are far more effective than we intended"
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"Riptide/Wraithknight were mistakes"
Does anyone else remember this article or have a link? I just attempted to find it again but wasn't able to locate it.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/03/27 08:22:41
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/27 08:30:07
Subject: Are Tau overpowered?
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
The best State-Texas
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Commissar Benny wrote:Wasn't an article published on reddit/ BoLS/Faeit 212 a few months that interviewed a GW exec that more or less came out & said:
" The Tau/Eldar codices are far more effective than we intended"
&
" Riptide/Wraithknight were mistakes"
Does anyone else remember this article or have a link? I just attempted to find it again but wasn't able to locate it.
The Wraithknight is actually pretty fairly balanced.
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