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Standard Taurox is pretty gak from the looks of it.

A Taurox Prime with TL Gatling, Heavy Stubber TL Volley Gun is 95 points, and puts out 17 S4 shots, 14 of which are TL, 4 of which are AP3, and all of which are BS4. That's a great anti-infantry vehicle, there, but we should also remember it can move 12'' and fire 14 TL shots at full BS, take far less risk going over terrain and carry 10 dudes inside.

The Scion Command is a bit iffy, and the power weapon/plasma pistol/power fist pricing is moronic, but having the ability to buy a 145 pt 4x Plasma deepstriking squad of Stormies is great.

Standard Scion rules aren't particularly astounding but I see them working in small units with special weapons.

The increased cost of the power weapon and power fist is appalling. Why should Imperials pay the same cost as Marines when the power fist has such a Strength disparity?

 Smashotron wrote:
The increased cost of the power weapon and power fist is appalling. Why should Imperials pay the same cost as Marines when the power fist has such a Strength disparity?

Because GW is gak when it comes to pricing melee weapons for units that don't start with them. Look at price disparity between honour guard/terminators and units like vanguard vets/chosen set up with power weapons, they really, REALLY have no clue.

I have a hard time stomaching the fact that they actually gave the Taurox prime worse armor than a rhino. . . true it is great anti infantry, that also happens to be extremely vulnerable to infantry.

Also how much for the switch to TL Autocannon?

 astro_nomicon wrote:

Also how much for the switch to TL Autocannon?

It's free.

4 deepstriking Meltaguns for 125 ain't terrible, but LOTD do the same thing for 145 and they get ignores cover and a 3++.

I don't see them being played competitively. Maybe as Knight hunters?

 Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
4 deepstriking Meltaguns for 125 ain't terrible, but LOTD do the same thing for 145 and they get ignores cover and a 3++.

I don't see them being played competitively. Maybe as Knight hunters?

That's one full BS melta shot and one snap firing MM, vs 4 full BS melta shots. Ignores cover means jack.

The 3++ is nice but eh, not needed and doesn't justify the loss of firepower.

4 plasmas is good, even having midfield fire with VG's is pretty good. An Inquisitor is cheap as chips and considerably buffs the Scions as well.

Actually for 30pts (i.e. 155) more you get 1 Combi-Melta shot, 1 Melta shot, and 1 SnP MM shot and the reroll on the scatter. and the 3++. The LotD win that one.

However! 2-3 deepstriking 90pt squads all coming in together if GW doesn't change the wording for platoon reserves is pretty nice.

The unit looks better.. at 12 pts a model to be sure. It's frustrating that GW is stuck on set point values for specific items REGARDLESS of circumstance (such as plasma pistols being 15pts on 1 wound models with 4+ save, or 15 pts on 3 wound models with 2+ saves.).. oh well.

Really depends on if Veteran squads get changed.. 12pts is a decent price for AP3 guns, especially if they're S4 like the hotshot volley gun (/facepalm at another salvo weapon on infantry)

Well, that WD article where it showed them all having a commando dagger..was bull? because really, now it seems the best of the best don't even bother carrying even a knife into battle?
Small image at the bottom, #2.



So, back to being normal guardsmen with +1BS, +1Sv, and with one special weapon of each type in each box, got to have 2 to get those 2 plasmagun/meltagun/GL/flamer/volleygun!

I would need to see the new codex of course, but right now, it seems you will have outflanking rhinos with pseudo SM scouts riding in them with AP3 bolters.

Hot shot lasguns seem pretty bad despite being AP3. At Str 3, you're looking for a 5+ to wound a marine, and if they have any kind of cover...

Against bikers you're about even with a bolter, at shorter range (and worse if they get +1 to their jink saves) :(

The volley hotshot lasgun isn't terrible on a vehicle at least or if you have a means to force them to come at you, I could see 16 s4 AP3 shots being a pain to deal with.

I don't know, maybe it's just that the last few armies I've faced haven't had any models below T4 in them. I'm having trouble seeing these guys as worth their base costs.

I can't take the Taurox Prime seriously.

So many points for such a very frail vehicle.

At least the base Taurox is cheap.

Based on how bad both of these vehicles are, I hope the Chimera has not increased in point cost, at least not drastically. I mean really, 50 pt. would be reasonable if the main Taurox was also Fast but there is no sane reason to pay 80+ pt. on an 11/10/10 Fast Transport.

 Grimskul wrote:

 Smashotron wrote:
The increased cost of the power weapon and power fist is appalling. Why should Imperials pay the same cost as Marines when the power fist has such a Strength disparity?

Because GW is gak when it comes to pricing melee weapons for units that don't start with them. Look at price disparity between honour guard/terminators and units like vanguard vets/chosen set up with power weapons, they really, REALLY have no clue.

Perhaps is it meant to be a fluffy thing? Guard tend to have less access to power weapons don't they?
Then again, scions aren't guard...

People seem to miss a important part about the prime. Its a god damn fast veichle that comes with good guns and inbuilt dozer blades! Having the ability to move 12 and fire at full BS is big. Then again... This seems like the new way of transporting ogryns and that fast.

 phatonic wrote:
People seem to miss a important part about the prime. Its a god damn fast veichle that comes with good guns and inbuilt dozer blades! Having the ability to move 12 and fire at full BS is big. Then again... This seems like the new way of transporting ogryns and that fast.

Which does nothing to fix that its made of tissue paper, dreams, and tears.

It also costs a lot. Which makes my first point that much more relevant.

Tissue paper bah, good ser my trukks are even thinner paper!

People have to stop looking at 40k as a competive game as its a long shot from not as its way unbalanced compared to other systems out there now just enjoy a game with beer and pals and get this competive mindset out of the game... Or am i the only one who thinks like thiz cuz ima ork?

 phatonic wrote:
Tissue paper bah, good ser my trukks are even thinner paper!

People have to stop looking at 40k as a competive game as its a long shot from not as its way unbalanced compared to other systems out there now just enjoy a game with beer and pals and get this competive mindset out of the game... Or am i the only one who thinks like thiz cuz ima ork?

To be fair this is the tactics section of the forum, so while playing for fun is all well and good (since I do that myself as an Ork player), in the context that we're in right now it's all about efficiency and ability which the Taurox seems to be lacking in several areas. Especially with competition like the Chimera which already has heavier front armour, decent guns, more fire points and even greater transport space.

 Grimskul wrote:

 phatonic wrote:
Tissue paper bah, good ser my trukks are even thinner paper!

People have to stop looking at 40k as a competive game as its a long shot from not as its way unbalanced compared to other systems out there now just enjoy a game with beer and pals and get this competive mindset out of the game... Or am i the only one who thinks like thiz cuz ima ork?

To be fair this is the tactics section of the forum, so while playing for fun is all well and good (since I do that myself as an Ork player), in the context that we're in right now it's all about efficiency and ability which the Taurox seems to be lacking in several areas. Especially with competition like the Chimera which already has heavier front armour, decent guns, more fire points and even greater transport space.

Still being in the tactics section doesnt stop you thinking of ways to use it to it's best
Then again this being from the white dwarf rules migth be changed or things like special rules are yet to be mentiond.

 phatonic wrote:
Tissue paper bah, good ser my trukks are even thinner paper!

People have to stop looking at 40k as a competive game as its a long shot from not as its way unbalanced compared to other systems out there now just enjoy a game with beer and pals and get this competive mindset out of the game... Or am i the only one who thinks like thiz cuz ima ork?

I'm out there to have fun and all that, but it doesn't stop me from wanting GW to put the effort into their game to make a game that has a semblance of balance, where unit choices are different, rather than more or less powerful.

Its not about being competitive, its about wanting a game that actually caters to both playstyles universally better; where every model is as viable as the next; where army are focused on themes rather than deathstars; where picking your favourite units from the book will make a list on the same relative playing field as someone who went though and min/maxed theirs.

That's all I want and hope for.

 Blacksails wrote:

 phatonic wrote:
Tissue paper bah, good ser my trukks are even thinner paper!

People have to stop looking at 40k as a competive game as its a long shot from not as its way unbalanced compared to other systems out there now just enjoy a game with beer and pals and get this competive mindset out of the game... Or am i the only one who thinks like thiz cuz ima ork?

I'm out there to have fun and all that, but it doesn't stop me from wanting GW to put the effort into their game to make a game that has a semblance of balance, where unit choices are different, rather than more or less powerful.

Its not about being competitive, its about wanting a game that actually caters to both playstyles universally better; where every model is as viable as the next; where army are focused on themes rather than deathstars; where picking your favourite units from the book will make a list on the same relative playing field as someone who went though and min/maxed theirs.

That's all I want and hope for.

Hear hear. And back to topic what do you guys think of the salvo hotlasguns with str4? Would it be used instead of the old plasma spam?

Is it the same cost as plasma?

If so, it'd be a tough sell. If it was cheaper, eh, I could see it in a dedicated squad, but I think plasma is more useful against more targets.

Granted, if the rumours about FRFSRF applying to hot shot guns is true, then it could be decent.

 Blacksails wrote:
Is it the same cost as plasma?

If so, it'd be a tough sell. If it was cheaper, eh, I could see it in a dedicated squad, but I think plasma is more useful against more targets.

Granted, if the rumours about FRFSRF applying to hot shot guns is true, then it could be decent.

Its 5p cheaper. And with orders geeze *drools* never tougth that migth happen

 phatonic wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:

 phatonic wrote:
Tissue paper bah, good ser my trukks are even thinner paper!

People have to stop looking at 40k as a competive game as its a long shot from not as its way unbalanced compared to other systems out there now just enjoy a game with beer and pals and get this competive mindset out of the game... Or am i the only one who thinks like thiz cuz ima ork?

I'm out there to have fun and all that, but it doesn't stop me from wanting GW to put the effort into their game to make a game that has a semblance of balance, where unit choices are different, rather than more or less powerful.

Its not about being competitive, its about wanting a game that actually caters to both playstyles universally better; where every model is as viable as the next; where army are focused on themes rather than deathstars; where picking your favourite units from the book will make a list on the same relative playing field as someone who went though and min/maxed theirs.

That's all I want and hope for.

Hear hear. And back to topic what do you guys think of the salvo hotlasguns with str4? Would it be used instead of the old plasma spam?

Honestly, I think they'll be used mainly in the command squads for volume of fire and not in the normal Scion squads. With the command squad you can take 4 of them cheap as chips and have the options for orders to boost them more directly whereas other scion squads may not be in range of orders if they're deep striking and are more likely to use plasma to better threaten rear armour or MC.

I read the salvo rule; turns out, if you move you can only fire it at half range, so if you move (since hot-shots are 18' only) you got 2 shots at Str4 AP3 at 12 inches, so it somewhat is compatible with the hot-shots...of course we'll need to see if hot-shots are str4 now or still a pitiful Str3.

Also, Phatonic, if the Taurox IS the new fancy way to carry Ogryns, I might still use a chimera, as it is not an assault vehicle, so still suffer from the disembark-and-wait-next-turn-to-assault problem.

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
I read the salvo rule; turns out, if you move you can only fire it at half range, so if you move (since hot-shots are 18' only) you got 2 shots at Str4 AP3 at 12 inches, so it somewhat is compatible with the hot-shots...of course we'll need to see if hot-shots are str4 now or still a pitiful Str3.

Also, Phatonic, if the Taurox IS the new fancy way to carry Ogryns, I might still use a chimera, as it is not an assault vehicle, so still suffer from the disembark-and-wait-next-turn-to-assault problem.

true at that but being a fast veichle move 12 and turboboost 12 and ur close enough! It draws fire and thats what ogryns are for.
As in the rules mentiond above the hotshot volley gun got 24 inches range, but i really hope normal hotshot get str 4, then with point decrease and a str 4 i guess we will see tons of these guys.

True, 24 inches is close, but that would mean that taurox may well get shot, blow up and then your Ogryns can end up pinned if their vehicle explode around them...and personally, at the price Orgyns are, I do not considered them a good investment to soak up fire, but that's me.

24 inch range yes, but it is a salvo weapon; salvo weapon rules states that if you move, you can fire up to half the listed range; so 2 shots at 12 inches, but 4 at 24-but that would mean having only a single shot for the hot-shots in your squad-if none at all if your target is between 18-24 inch range...

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
True, 24 inches is close, but that would mean that taurox may well get shot, blow up and then your Ogryns can end up pinned if their vehicle explode around them...and personally, at the price Orgyns are, I do not considered them a good investment to soak up fire, but that's me.

24 inch range yes, but it is a salvo weapon; salvo weapon rules states that if you move, you can fire up to half the listed range; so 2 shots at 12 inches, but 4 at 24-but that would mean having only a single shot for the hot-shots in your squad-if none at all if your target is between 18-24 inch range...

we are yet to see rules for the rest including new ogryns and orders that migth give the unit relentless and so on.

True, but it is a rather long shot to expect them to cover every disadvantage with the new stuff with something as 'simple' as orders.

It can happen, but I'm cynical about it.

I just can't see the lasgun being Str4. Not with the Volley gun already being Str4.

Sad times