Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

2 x Daemon Prince (wings, armour, ML3)

6 x cultists units of ten

6 x heldrakes

1 vindicator

Competitive or not?

That Vindicator is just chilling there by himself, waiting to get blown up because of no saturation. Not really a place for a Vindicator in this kind of list IMO.

6 Heldrakes is way overboard, they are good at killing MEQ and not nearly as good as everybody says, especially in the new age of AA everywhere. Half of them won't even have anywhere to fly and will get crowded off the table. 3 is plenty, in fact, I'm going to commit some heresy and suggest that one of them could even have a reaper autocannon instead of a baleflamer.

Getting rid of three turkies and the Vindicator frees up you to do all sorts of things.

oh god dude......

Well get rid of the vindicator. Just having 1 of those is not going to do anything. Drop it for more cultists.

Yeah I guess its competitive, just keep ur cultists and DPs out of the way until 3 or so heldrakes get in. Use your DPs to take down tanks and armor with their smash attacks...

No one will play you.

EDIT: I like the name change.

Think this is better:

D Prince (wings, ML 3, armour, Black Mace)
D Prince (wings, ML 3, armour)
D Prince (wings, ML 3, armour)

10 cultists (heavy stubber)
10 cultists (heavy stubber)
10 cultists (heavy stubber)
10 cultists
10 cultists

5 x Heldrakes

I would take 6 DP alll ML3 and nurgle, then take 80 cultists, any points left can be for forge fiends.

My dark eldar list would table this before the heldrakes came on.

New list is better. It will do very well in some games poor in others. You've effectively got an 8 model army so it doesn't take a lot of bad luck to screw you. I ran something similar in a 1250 tournament with 3 Drakes and 2 Princes. In one game the only AA my opponent had was a quadgun. My Drakes appeared 1 a turn and died to the quadgun on interceptor immediately which whilst massively unlikely can happen another game against old WD screamers and flamers Daemons by turn 3 only 1 unit of cultists had come from reaerve and Fateweaver had beaten a DP to death who had a familiar and still failed to cast enfeeble...

Sure those games shouldn't have happened but in a tournament they will happen at least once. So yes its a fairly strong list but 1 bad set of dice can cost you the game.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
My dark eldar list would table this before the heldrakes came on.

I have a 1000pt DE army so I understand DE pretty well, but against 6 FMC with a 3+ CS thats still a problem, in addition to who goes first, psychic powers, and luck of the dice.

 Arbiter wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
My dark eldar list would table this before the heldrakes came on.

I have a 1000pt DE army so I understand DE pretty well, but against 6 FMC with a 3+ CS thats still a problem, in addition to who goes first, psychic powers, and luck of the dice.

There's only 3 FMC, and this is at 2k points so 1k dark eldar experience won't get you very far here. Also, With Vect the DE player is going first 75% of the time. Faced daemons at a tourney last week. Turn 1 wasted 2 daemon princes and a greater unclean one. Turn 2, I'd just focus down the cultists... 6 venoms with 24 shots each at 36" range...

This is certainly a list that some armies will have trouble with, but you will also get heavy resistance from others. Tyranid FMC lists will laugh in the face of this type of build.

Just something to be aware of.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 Arbiter wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
My dark eldar list would table this before the heldrakes came on.

I have a 1000pt DE army so I understand DE pretty well, but against 6 FMC with a 3+ CS thats still a problem, in addition to who goes first, psychic powers, and luck of the dice.

There's only 3 FMC, and this is at 2k points so 1k dark eldar experience won't get you very far here. Also, With Vect the DE player is going first 75% of the time. Faced daemons at a tourney last week. Turn 1 wasted 2 daemon princes and a greater unclean one. Turn 2, I'd just focus down the cultists... 6 venoms with 24 shots each at 36" range...

This is exactly why i don't play Flying Circii. If you're not guarnteed first or enough LOS blocking terrain you're screewwwweD. Yes with the capital D. Went 2nd against eldar with light terrain. Serpents/war walkers kill 3 princes. GG bro.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 Arbiter wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
My dark eldar list would table this before the heldrakes came on.

I have a 1000pt DE army so I understand DE pretty well, but against 6 FMC with a 3+ CS thats still a problem, in addition to who goes first, psychic powers, and luck of the dice.

There's only 3 FMC, and this is at 2k points so 1k dark eldar experience won't get you very far here. Also, With Vect the DE player is going first 75% of the time. Faced daemons at a tourney last week. Turn 1 wasted 2 daemon princes and a greater unclean one. Turn 2, I'd just focus down the cultists... 6 venoms with 24 shots each at 36" range...

I think you misunderstood me, I said "I have a 1000pt DE army" not "I only ever play with just my 1000pt DE army" their is a slight difference.
Also unless you take the voidraven your AA is crap against heldrakes, also with 6 FMC they can cause some damage with ML3 and a 3+ Cs also only getting hit on "6"s
with 1 venom with duel cannons you get 12 shots, 2 hits, 1 wound and they get a 3+ cover save, rinse and repeat till they assault you on turn 2.

5 heldrakes? Good luck maneuvering them all without tripping over yourself.

Its actually a lot easier then you would think thanks to the torrent flamer coming out of anywhere.

I didn't mean it terms of shooting, but rather moving around the board without tripping over you're or you're opponents models. I've seen many a flyer go down due to not being able to make legal moves (mostly due to locked velocity and stunned flyers)

 Arbiter wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 Arbiter wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
My dark eldar list would table this before the heldrakes came on.

I have a 1000pt DE army so I understand DE pretty well, but against 6 FMC with a 3+ CS thats still a problem, in addition to who goes first, psychic powers, and luck of the dice.

There's only 3 FMC, and this is at 2k points so 1k dark eldar experience won't get you very far here. Also, With Vect the DE player is going first 75% of the time. Faced daemons at a tourney last week. Turn 1 wasted 2 daemon princes and a greater unclean one. Turn 2, I'd just focus down the cultists... 6 venoms with 24 shots each at 36" range...

I think you misunderstood me, I said "I have a 1000pt DE army" not "I only ever play with just my 1000pt DE army" their is a slight difference.
Also unless you take the voidraven your AA is crap against heldrakes, also with 6 FMC they can cause some damage with ML3 and a 3+ Cs also only getting hit on "6"s
with 1 venom with duel cannons you get 12 shots, 2 hits, 1 wound and they get a 3+ cover save, rinse and repeat till they assault you on turn 2.

First off, there's only 3 fmc.... secondly, with vect you're pretty much going first. Therefore you're hitting the fmc on 3s not sixes. By the time the drakes come on, the opponent will pretty much be wasted.

Haha, do people honestly play with no tactics at all?

You can start your FMC off the board and have them come on the board turn 2 flying so they come in with heldrakes, also I was referring to my post which I said 6 FMC not 3, perhaps read all the posts?

 Arbiter wrote:
Haha, do people honestly play with no tactics at all?

You can start your FMC off the board and have them come on the board turn 2 flying so they come in with heldrakes, also I was referring to my post which I said 6 FMC not 3, perhaps read all the posts?

Your post isn't what the OP listed... So LERN2STAYONTOPIC. Also, if he starts with the princes off, and just cultists that'll make it even easier to table turn 1. My Dark eldar list has 13 lance shots, 160+ poison shots at 36" threat range turn 1... Should be pretty easy to blow away some cultists.

Are you MAD? You talk about my POST, and I correct you on what my POST said and then you talk about a different POST, so either your trolling or your severely ADD.

36" threat range? So can they shoot the back of the board turn one? The lances aren't great anti- infantry. What is the actual range of your army? I know you're v mobile and all... But 160 poison shots at what BS? To reliably kill 60 cultists in cover it's probably not enough. 160 HITS with 4+ Poison is still only 80 wounds before saves. I've gone to ground in cover too. So, uh... No. I don't think you're killing 60 models.

It all depends on what math you use mate, some people like to use bull **** hammer and others use mathhammer.

Well I am no mad mathematician, but 160 shots at bs4 (if all of his shooting could get within range is 53 hits. At 4+, that's 27 wounds. If I am going to ground in area terrain, that's down to 14 dead cultists. Next turn two DPs and three Heldrakes come in. I'm rounding, obvs, but that seems average, assuming all shooting gets in range of something to shoot at, not allowing for any LoS blocking or ruins, or psychic/warlord traits like stealth/shrouded. Plus lances (they aren't twin linked or ignore cover right? I think I won't let them shoot at my DPs while they are on the deck if I can help it.)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And five fliers isn't that hard to manoeuvre. My current army is a 5 flier Necron list. I've honestly never had a big problem with moving them and they can't shoot 360 degree torrent OR go into hover mode.

Kholzerino all you say is truth, 5 heldrakes are simple to use, in addition to lets day in 2k points double FOC 6 daemon princes (all MON) I for see problems for the DE.

Kholzerino wrote:
Well I am no mad mathematician, but 160 shots at bs4 (if all of his shooting could get within range is 53 hits. At 4+, that's 27 wounds. If I am going to ground in area terrain, that's down to 14 dead cultists. Next turn two DPs and three Heldrakes come in. I'm rounding, obvs, but that seems average, assuming all shooting gets in range of something to shoot at, not allowing for any LoS blocking or ruins, or psychic/warlord traits like stealth/shrouded. Plus lances (they aren't twin linked or ignore cover right? I think I won't let them shoot at my DPs while they are on the deck if I can help it.)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And five fliers isn't that hard to manoeuvre. My current army is a 5 flier Necron list. I've honestly never had a big problem with moving them and they can't shoot 360 degree torrent OR go into hover mode.

I'm not taking a side either way in this argument, but if you're going to talk gak about math hammer...

160 shots at BS4 is ~105 hits... which is ~52 wounds, which is ~17 unsaved wounds on a 3+ cover save.

And seeing that's 20 is 40 less then 60 would be there would be units left on the table.

Some terrible maths here. 160 x 2/3 = 106.67 hits = 53.333 woubds. Going to ground in area terrain nets you a 4+ cover so 26.67 dead. Still a load less than 60 granted but this is assuming all 60 are in cover which is unlikely, as Venoms can move 12" and still fire to full capacity, and is also not taking into account the chance of units fleeing the table. So yeah it is certainly possible to table but not hugely likely.

The truth is that they can move 12" and shoot 24" anyway, so if I deploy in back 12" he can't even shoot me, isn't it? Assuming he can't scout/infiltrate.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also most tables have some LoS blocking terrain, right?

Kholzerino wrote:
2 x Daemon Prince (wings, armour, ML3)

6 x cultists units of ten

6 x heldrakes

1 vindicator

Competitive or not?

lol I like the vindicator, nice touch. double force org 6 heldrake is the perfect combination of sophistication and class, well done.

Move 12" shoot 36" for Venoms

I think all this de stuff is moot...All I'd do is ditch the vindicator take a bastion with a comms relay and put it in the corner with a dp behind it. You can't shoot me because you can't see me. Then next turn most of the stuff I want comes on.