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 Arbiter wrote:
How will killing a possible 30 cultists cripple scoring capabilities, in addition to any reserves that came in?

Ps: Was not my intention to be "snide" or toxic, when you quoted 5 saying different averages are better then others this didn't make sense as the averages come out the same, Also I think you were trying to say "mode" or modality but it came out as modals which is different. Lastly don't forget cultists LD of 7 or 8 on their leaders so the average dice roll being "7" means you shouldn't be fleeing.

Modals is short for "modal averages" - apologies for confusion. And that's 30 cultists a turn - so two turns of shooting from not all of the army and you have no scoring. And just because a unit is more likely to stay than flee, doesn't mean that every unit will stay strong.

Thanks for the clarification.

But don't forget LOS blocking terrain since its the biggest pain in the neck used by gamers everywhere to screw up plans and gun lines alike (I know it has for me).

I guess that starting all your cultists on the table on turn one is not the optimal deployment for this army.

My awnser to this is three thunder fire cannons. Actually my white scars would love to go against this list at 2k.
Trust me your bale flammers dont scar my bike star unit. All of whom have a 3++ plus 4 grav guns, a apothcary, a chapter master, khan, all on bikes. Plus your five flyers vs my three deicated anti air flyers. I like my chances. Espically since two of mine have it won die. This list will curb stomp any non tau, white scar, eldar, flying circus, flyin nid circus, and possibly some non white scar marine builds. So basically you will probably win your first match in a tourament ( if you dont pull one of the top armies) followed by a complete curb stomp on you followed by you winning.

wpago wrote:
My awnser to this is three thunder fire cannons. Actually my white scars would love to go against this list at 2k.
Trust me your bale flammers dont scar my bike star unit. All of whom have a 3++ plus 4 grav guns, a apothcary, a chapter master, khan, all on bikes. Plus your five flyers vs my three deicated anti air flyers. I like my chances. Espically since two of mine have it won die. This list will curb stomp any non tau, white scar, eldar, flying circus, flyin nid circus, and possibly some non white scar marine builds. So basically you will probably win your first match in a tourament ( if you dont pull one of the top armies) followed by a complete curb stomp on you followed by you winning.

Just curious, where does the invul come from? I know they've got a 3+ cover save from jink, but the baleflamer ignores cover.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:

wpago wrote:
My awnser to this is three thunder fire cannons. Actually my white scars would love to go against this list at 2k.
Trust me your bale flammers dont scar my bike star unit. All of whom have a 3++ plus 4 grav guns, a apothcary, a chapter master, khan, all on bikes. Plus your five flyers vs my three deicated anti air flyers. I like my chances. Espically since two of mine have it won die. This list will curb stomp any non tau, white scar, eldar, flying circus, flyin nid circus, and possibly some non white scar marine builds. So basically you will probably win your first match in a tourament ( if you dont pull one of the top armies) followed by a complete curb stomp on you followed by you winning.

Just curious, where does the invul come from? I know they've got a 3+ cover save from jink, but the baleflamer ignores cover.

I was thinking the same thing.. Heldrakes love fighting bike lists, as for the grav guns bring it because hitting on "6"s then getting an effect on "6"s means low chances.
Also don't forget the FMC who don't care about any of your saves.

10 points a model = storm shield. and with that unit rolling around you wont be able to stop them


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So bring it. As you cant refuse a challenge. My enternal warrior 2+ armor 3++ 4 wound chapter master with it wont die and a thunderhammer awaits your daemon prince.

What are you talking about??? Why would a FDP charge you? he will just vector strike the ever loving **** out of your unit whith the heldrakes doing the same, all the while you can try to snap shot at them don't forget heldrake has 5+ inv and DP with MoN has 3+ cover.

one failed grounding test is all it takes. twin linked bolters on 7 models do a good job of that. Plus, to deal with air i got two storm talons and a storm raven. Oh btw the storm raven and one of the storm talons have it wont die. I am just telling you this list isnt top tier.

Your Bikesander is a problem for DPs thats true. But he can't be everywhere at once and a smart player will fly a DP off the table rather then leave him in potential charge range of your commander.

Also if 2 or 3 of those helldrakes are rocking the Autocannon (which they should) a single round of Daemonforged shots should see your fliers crippled if not destroyed outright.

This list isn't top tier but in no way shape or form does a bike list have anything resembling a chance against this.

The hell drakes with stegnth 7 shots at b.s. 3 (hell forge lets you reroll misses i believe) at 4 shots a peice.

8 shots
4 hit
2 more hit on rerolls
6 hits on either the storm raven (armor 12)
1 glance
1 pen
only 1/6 chance of blowing it up
1/2 of making me only having one weapon at full BS skill
1/6 chance of making my velocity locked
1/6 chance of making me loss a weapon. 4 of which are one shot missles.

Now if he were to shoot all those at a storm talon. Then i possibly loose one sotrm talon. The next turn i shoot 2 storm strike missles a twl lascannon into one, power of the machine spirt into another a multi melta
Then my last storm talon goes after the other hades auto cannon. (if he has one left)


So no i am not scared of 5 hell turkeys. All this is assuming i go first/ get my fliers in first. If mine come in second (which i will try for with scier's gaze hopefully on my bike librain) then i will come in guns blazing and knock out the auto cannon hell turkeys if they are in or they will go after the flammer one's.

Bike lists are very versatile and this isnt a auto win or hard counter. Its just a harder match up than normal

Hades autocannon is 4 shots at str 8 and daemonforge allows you to reroll the pen results.

And as someone who has both a biker list and a Flying MC + heldrake list. I am telling you, this many heldrakes is a hard counter. The only unit you have on the ground that isnt dying outright to vector strikes and baleflamers is the command squad and its not that hard to fail 3+ invuls either.

Well then it depends on whose fliers come in first:
Also my thunder fires will not be dieing outright to them. 2+ armor on tech marine plus toughness 7.

yeah but the gun is 3+ save and the hits from vector strike are randomly distributed...

And even if his fliers come in first, his armor 12 and 5+ invul make it unlikely that you will get both and theres a good chance you will destroy neither. Even if you do, a large # of str 7 vector strikes will hull out even a storm raven in short order.

Though you seem like someone who will remain unconvinced until someone smashes your army on the table with it.

and you seem to be one who thinks that a good bike list will almost always fall to this list. So let us agree to disagree.

That's just it, a good bike list will only have a few problems with this pro tier list, but your has more problems because of the units chosen.

wpago wrote:
Well then it depends on whose fliers come in first:
Also my thunder fires will not be dieing outright to them. 2+ armor on tech marine plus toughness 7.

Not really his flyers come on first you shoot at him. You kill 1 and probably hurt another. He then vector strikes all your flyer and any Hades also shoot at you. Your flyers never get to shoot at his again without going into hover.

You come on first he flies over you vector striking you and then shooting you. You now have 2 choices stay on the board and not shoot his fliers as they're behind you or fly off in which case he flies off and he again comes on after you and you never get to shoot his flyers. 360° Fire arc and vector strikes are a massive paired advantage in a flier battle.