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I know we've all seen it, that army that someone is working on that makes you make the 'sucking on lemons' face when you see it.

But a lot of this isn't even about the quality of the paint jobs... you have some good painters that make choices that just don't work out. I even have good friends who do this, despite me explaining why it is a bad idea. And it isn't just saying, “Naw man, your paint job sucks.” I have books and charts and graphs galore showing color theory, explaining contrasting colors, and how to pick tones of colors that compliment each other and the whole thing.

I'm preaching to the choir I know.

Yet the next person who thinks purple and green are gonna look awesome together... I just want to throttle them. Unless you're The Joker, The Hulk, or Nurgle... stop that.

There's always exceptions, where people make things that shouldn't work... work. But I know I can't be the only guy out there thinking this. It was worse when I worked for GW, and people are explaining their paint schemes to you, and all I had in my head was internal screaming.

No Little Timmy... I don't think it is a great idea to paint all of your marines Red and Yellow... unless you'd like fries with that. (Or painting Gryphons... but I don't think Little Timmy is there yet.

To compound matters, you have other people who are the pinnacle of lazy. The Primer Is Paint guys. The chaps who paint Ravenwing and Black Templars for the wrong reasons.

I'm ranting... hold on a second.

Alright.

So to be productive, I'm trying to see how anyone else here deals with this. We've all had these friends... how can I get through to them? I know they have the talent to do better, but despite being constantly asked for advice, the advice I give gets ignored.

No damnit, just because the model is a Ninja does not give you the excuse to paint a silver stripe on the sword and call it done!

-ahem-

Help?

I just try and subtly nudge them towards a color palette that makes more sense. Fortunately I play against other artists with some regularity, so it hasn't really been much of a problem lately. As with all suggestions, you've just gotta do it tactfully and maybe show them an example of what you're talking about.

I don't. If somebody is happy with their paint scheme and they aren't looking for feedback, who the hell am I to tell them that their color choices are wrong? I can feel it all I want - doesn't mean I should say it.

I'm not bothered. Any pait job is 10x better than no paint job.

I have seen an army painted intentionally to looke like the NY Knicks uniforms...to each his own.

I have, of course, seen some stuff on ebay that I wonder if it will ever sell.

Eh, I find miniature painting is more about painting well than picking a good colour palette up until you get far beyond most peoples' skill levels. You can pick colours that compliment each other well but end up painting one too bright or one with less depth than the other and it will look worse than colours that "clash" but are better matched in how they are actually painted.

Also, miniatures aren't the same as interior design or clothing, clashing colours can look fine on many armies.

That said, I'm not a great artist, I always struggle to find colours that work well together and often get half way through an army before I decide I don't like something. I think it's less of an issue of finding colours that compliment each other than finding ways of painting them that compliment each other.

Under the assumption that they are either asking for your opinion or your critique on what they've been working on.

I'm not saying to belittle someone who has a paint scheme you don't like, I mean to say if they ask you your thoughts on what they're doing, or go as far as to ask advice.

 Chemical Cutthroat wrote:
But a lot of this isn't even about the quality of the paint jobs... you have some good painters that make choices that just don't work out. I even have good friends who do this, despite me explaining why it is a bad idea.

I'm sure they really enjoy you explaining why the colors they choose to paint the miniatures they purchased aren't up to your standard. Not that my friends would do this, but if they did, I'd suggest they keep their opinion about my color choices to themselves.

 Chemical Cutthroat wrote:

I'm preaching to the choir I know.

No, you are not.

 Chemical Cutthroat wrote:

Yet the next person who thinks purple and green are gonna look awesome together... I just want to throttle them. Unless you're The Joker, The Hulk, or Nurgle... stop that.

I happen to like purple and green together and I'm not the Joker, Hulk, or Nurgle.

 Chemical Cutthroat wrote:

There's always exceptions, where people make things that shouldn't work... work. But I know I can't be the only guy out there thinking this. It was worse when I worked for GW, and people are explaining their paint schemes to you, and all I had in my head was internal screaming.

Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but you really come off as arrogant. Who are you to criticize other peoples paint schemes? Why do you even care?

 Chemical Cutthroat wrote:

No Little Timmy... I don't think it is a great idea to paint all of your marines Red and Yellow... unless you'd like fries with that. (Or painting Gryphons... but I don't think Little Timmy is there yet.

I'm assuming that you also hate the Imperial Fists since their scheme is red and yellow.

 Chemical Cutthroat wrote:


So to be productive, I'm trying to see how anyone else here deals with this. We've all had these friends... how can I get through to them? I know they have the talent to do better, but despite being constantly asked for advice, the advice I give gets ignored.

Deals with what? Again, people are free to paint their miniatures how they see fit. Too bad if their chosen colors don't fit your ideals. It's not their problem, it's yours. Maybe you can't 'get through to them' because they are tired of listening to your unwanted opinions on color theory.

You know what would look a lot better than bad color combinations? Unpainted plastic!

Every time someone complains about unpainted armies and asks "Why can't people just paint their armies?", you should link them to a thread like this one. Apparently it doesn't matter if it's painted or not, if it's not "good enough" you'll still get ridiculed for even trying.

Asking for critique means that you are willing to listen. Color theory is hard to explain to most people but advice like replacing "that color" with "this color" is kinda of easy to follow... If they choose to ignore simple staff like that then there isn't much you can do.

Duly noted.

It wasn't about belittling people, it was about trying to get through to people that are asking for advice in the first place. Comments for humor weren't taken well. My apologies.

Just give constructive criticism then? Such as, "I like your idea/attempt at this, maybe next time you can consider trying this technique or color out..." If people choose to ignore your advice, there's nothing you can do, just deal with it.

You don't want to crush someone's spirits and turn them off from the hobby. That's the absolute worst thing you can do in my opinion. Not everyone is a master painter, and painting is an acquired skill. You don't just start painting masterpieces from day 1, it takes years and years to improve and refine your skills. With time people learn. My first ever mini is an embarrassment compared to how I paint now, and I still have room for improvement.

 Chemical Cutthroat wrote:

Yet the next person who thinks purple and green are gonna look awesome together... I just want to throttle them. Unless you're The Joker, The Hulk, or Nurgle... stop that.

Purple and green look good together, they are complementary.







Now that being said, I think something people dont experiment with enough when it comes to complimentary colors is the value and tone of the colors. As in my example above I am pairing a fairly bright purple with a dull green.

Consider red white and blue. When used together you get Capt. America, but if you shift the values and the shades slightly you get something pretty cool;





Before shooting down a scheme simply based on what might be loud and annoying colors, try playing with the shades and values and you might be surprised what you get.

A.

 Chemical Cutthroat wrote:

No Little Timmy... I don't think it is a great idea to paint all of your marines Red and Yellow... unless you'd like fries with that.

Or Timmy really likes the Games Workshop logo...

Tim

Generally I don't say anything about it. They'll figure it out eventually and they're not mine so it really shouldn't irk me.

Colour theory is useful and all but even that is worthless if they're lazy and don't want to improve.

 Redfinger wrote:

Now that being said, I think something people dont experiment with enough when it comes to complimentary colors is the value and tone of the colors. As in my example above I am pairing a fairly bright purple with a dull green.

Consider red white and blue. When used together you get Capt. America, but if you shift the values and the shades slightly you get something pretty cool;

Before shooting down a scheme simply based on what might be loud and annoying colors, try playing with the shades and values and you might be surprised what you get.

A.

Yeah, this is what I struggle with. Picking complementary colours and putting them down on colour swatches in image editing software... that I can do. But that's not what's going to appear on the model. Picking the right shades and highlights and just varying the tone or even just slightly varying the hue to actually get a scheme that works on a model, that's more what I can't do very well at all.

Then even if I do get something I like, finding those exact colours in the plethora of paint ranges. Yeah, I can mix my own, but I'm not going to mix my own for an entire army. I think my Warboss came out quite well largely because I custom mixed every colour on him to get where I wanted, but even then the colour I picked for his pants look a bit odd.

I...I am one of those guys that plays with an unpainted army.
I just suck at painting so I'm just not going to try because I know they'll look even dumber.

In truth why does it matter? It's not your work or models. It's a hobby. Constructive criticism is always a 2 way street. Art is different to everyone on how they see it. What you might see as a bad color palette others may see as different and beautiful. Giving advices is one thing. Trying to tell people what you think or is the right way to do things is your opinion. In truthfulness just be happy and paint /model your way. Life is to short to worry about frivolous things.

So try teaching them about colour theory yet you clearly dont know how to use a colour wheel. Purple and green are opposite on the colour wheel therefore will work as will the colours on either side of it. My wife did art at uni and i work in a decorators merchants so colour theory and colour choices are part of a training course we are sent on. My wife has no interest in painting minis but even she just read what you posted and said what you wrote was farsicle.

You cant slate people for their colour choice, as it is their choice and as for people who ask for advice, they have pretry much made up their mind but want a little help with shade and tone.

Try being positive it will get better results.

cakington wrote:
So try teaching them about colour theory yet you clearly dont know how to use a colour wheel. Purple and green are opposite on the colour wheel therefore will work as will the colours on either side of it. My wife did art at uni and i work in a decorators merchants so colour theory and colour choices are part of a training course we are sent on. My wife has no interest in painting minis but even she just read what you posted and said what you wrote was farsicle.

You cant slate people for their colour choice, as it is their choice and as for people who ask for advice, they have pretry much made up their mind but want a little help with shade and tone.

Try being positive it will get better results.

I think he knows purple and green work together, as he said the joker has a perfectly fine scheme. I just think he makes a difference between something like


vs. the troll a bit further up. It all comes down to the tones you pick. And I think this tyranid isn't as bad as it could be, but it'll need a lot of extra shades and highlights not to look like chewing gum or comic character, unless that's what you want to, and do it decently:




I don't think Chemical Cutthroat is ranting about specific colour combinations, but rather that people ignore advice if they ask for it :p And that's also what you said, if people ask for advice you expect them to have made up their mind but would like 'advice'. And as Chemical Cutthroat stated if little timmy wants an all yellow red army, either it's going to look odd, or he puts some effort in it, and will need some experience, which he hasn't apparently, so Chems advice would be to start with something easier I imagine.

 soulcow wrote:
but rather that people ignore advice if they ask for it :p And that's also what you said, if people ask for advice you expect them to have made up their mind but would like 'advice'. And as Chemical Cutthroat stated if little timmy wants an all yellow red army, either it's going to look odd, or he puts some effort in it, and will need some experience, which he hasn't apparently, so Chems advice would be to start with something easier I imagine.

I think if people are asking advice like "what do you think of this red and yellow army", they're probably more looking for advice on how to paint it rather than "red and yellow are stupid mcdonalds colours, pick something else". I'm not an expert on colour theory, but to me the key thing in miniature painting seems less about what hues you pick and more about getting tones and shades that work well together, which is something a lot more advanced than simply saying "red and yellow don't go together, use blah and blah".

Newbies to painting might not realise but they're probably asking you a much more advanced question than simply whether the colours they want are complimentary on a basic colour wheel or not.

So we have an OP who complains about people not understanding color theory and who then complains about people using complimentary colors and analogous colors?

If you don't like certain color combinations then you can always make a post saying "I don't like green/purple or red/yellow armies", but it seems like trying to justify yourself by using "color therory" isn't very correct considering that both your examples are actually examples of correct application of such.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 soulcow wrote:
but rather that people ignore advice if they ask for it :p And that's also what you said, if people ask for advice you expect them to have made up their mind but would like 'advice'. And as Chemical Cutthroat stated if little timmy wants an all yellow red army, either it's going to look odd, or he puts some effort in it, and will need some experience, which he hasn't apparently, so Chems advice would be to start with something easier I imagine.

I think if people are asking advice like "what do you think of this red and yellow army", they're probably more looking for advice on how to paint it rather than "red and yellow are stupid mcdonalds colours, pick something else". I'm not an expert on colour theory, but to me the key thing in miniature painting seems less about what hues you pick and more about getting tones and shades that work well together, which is something a lot more advanced than simply saying "red and yellow don't go together, use blah and blah".

Newbies to painting might not realise but they're probably asking you a much more advanced question than simply whether the colours they want are complimentary on a basic colour wheel or not.

Yes that's exactly what I meant :p But I can imagine it can be difficult sometimes to explain to relatively new painters (the ones that ask advice and don't use it) that they should try to mix a yellow that stands out, but won't look like they came from McDonalds ^^ (Again, unless you want to) So I don't think he's complaining about the colors themselves, but rather that those people will just slap on any red or yellow and expect it to be good, not listening to his advice (because they ask for it, he says ^^). Or if something should be black they will paint it black straight away. I'm relatively new too, and I discovered I shouldn't paint something entirely black in many cases, but maybe start with dark grey, black wash.. anything that makes the 'colour' more interesting. I noticed right away the first time I painted black it contrasted way too much with the other colours of my mini, so I asked other people, and they told me how I could fix it, and I did
I do think 'little Timmy' can't help it, he just has to learn how to paint and how he can fix his colours, so I do think it's not a shame at all if your first minis look horrible, or still do after several years, but you don't care. However, if you're asking advice from experienced people, I do think you should listen to it :p

So painting purple and green is awful unless painting nurgle and it is bad to paint red and yellow unless you are painting the howling griffons.

So only colour schemes done by GW are allowed. I dont get it.

Sorry op but, you're coming off as a bit arrogant. Again why do you care if they listen or not? Advice is given doesn't mean they have to do it. They either learn or don't. Its not your place to worry if they do or not. Someone gives me advice I listen doesn't mean im going to do it that way. Isn't the whole idea behind this is using your imagination to be creative ? Simple solution don't give advice if it bothers you.

We face many unpainted armies in our time.

Only primed armies are almost worse since it is so hard to see the detail (especially black primed).

ANY attempt to paint the various weapons give a hope of easy identification of the weapons being used.

At this stage I can be "happy" with what my opponent has done.

There are so many options to "color theory" that I think the only thing that could be painful is just messy execution or what appears to be zero attempt at even trying to paint well.

Oh yes and the Testors enamel painted armies have a certain amount of shock and awe in my books.

If you feel you MUST give some direction, first wait to be asked by them, point out at least one thing you think they did was good and then say your piece after that.

I cannot with clear conscience find offence with people putting out effort, you could be surprised with the results as they get some practice in.

 Chemical Cutthroat wrote:
Under the assumption that they are either asking for your opinion or your critique on what they've been working on.

I'm not saying to belittle someone who has a paint scheme you don't like, I mean to say if they ask you your thoughts on what they're doing, or go as far as to ask advice.

Well, if you really want to discuss ways to help somebody improve their painting I always recommend staying positive. You never want to discourage somebody from doing something that they really enjoy.

You could do it something like this:

(Pretend that you're them and I'm you)

"Hey, CC. I was just noticing that you put a lot of effort into your painting but you don't seem to put quite as much effort into your photos. If you were to just take a few extra steps before you shoot you could really make your paint jobs shine in your photos."

See how I critiqued you by still staying generally positive? It's encouraging, right?

Then you can give them specific help:

i would say it's a matter of catching flies with honey instead of vinegar.

purple and green CAN go together, but that scheme tends to clash when the colors are over-saturated (i.e, the Joker).

Whenever I get a new model assembled, I immediately prime it and give it a light dry brushing to make the highlights stick out. It takes about 30 minutes (not counting drying time) to get 20+ models ready to go. My advice would be to work on those "primer is paint" guys and show them how to cheat with a dry brush.

Some people just want to play a game and don't care if they put bare metal or plastic down.

I find picking colors to be the hardest part when painting.

I would just say if someone asks for your help / opinion give it in a nice helpful way. Otherwise probably better to leave it alone so you don't alienate anyone or be subtle about it.

Yellow and fray, for instance, might be bad colours for an army. It may look damnably awful, but it has one advantage. Everyone knows where that. Model came from and who owns it. Nobody has ever suggested to me that I swiped their model, nobody has suggested that that mix of yellow and gray was in fact their. Property...

Ah the internet! where people can complain about what ever they what. A safe haven for arrogance and stupidity. OP why did you even bring this up? it is an unspoken thing that some people wont like other peoples armies solely for the look. It happens and is unavoidable. I look at my own armies and sometimes think 'why why did i do this?' then i remember. ITS MY HOBBY. what i do with my army is for my own spoken judgement. when it comes to giving advice. Well there is a tact which you sir lack greatly. Kids will do what they want.. so little timmy will do what he wants. but they always seek admiration from those they respect... so youve just insulted someone who respects you BIG THUMBS UP!! dude please just take this down cos it really doesnt reflect well on you.. youve just insulted a whole forum