Brunei - The Shining Symbol of Modernity and Leadership in the World.

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Breotan**

A few months ago, President Obama welcomed the Sultan of Brunei to the White House and heaped glowing praise upon this distinguished world leader. I wonder if this will be remembered in the same vein as former President Bush's comment about the sense of Putin's soul.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/30/sultan-brunei-sharia-penal-code-flogging-death-stoning

The Guardian wrote:Sultan of Brunei unveils strict sharia penal code

Fines and jail terms for offences such as indecency and failure to attend Friday prayers, with future penalties to include flogging and death by stoning

The sultan of oil-rich Brunei has announced the introduction of tough Islamic criminal punishments, pushing ahead with plans that have sparked international condemnation and rare domestic criticism of the fabulously wealthy ruler.

"With faith and gratitude to Allah the almighty, I declare that tomorrow, Thursday 1 May 2014, will see the enforcement of sharia law phase one, to be followed by the other phases," the absolute monarch said in a royal decree on Wednesday.

Plans for the sharia penalties – which will eventually include flogging, severing of limbs and death by stoning – triggered condemnation on social media sites in the tiny sultanate earlier this year.

Confusion has swirled around implementation of the punishments following the unexplained postponement of an expected 22 April start date that raised questions over whether the Muslim monarch was hesitating.

But 67-year-old Sultan Hassanal Bolkiah – one of the world's wealthiest men – said in his decree that the move was "a must" under Islam, dismissing "never-ending theories" that sharia punishments were cruel in comments clearly aimed at detractors.

"Theory states that Allah's law is cruel and unfair but Allah himself has said that his law is indeed fair," he said.

The initial phase beginning on Thursday introduces fines or jail terms for offences ranging from indecent behaviour, failure to attend Friday prayers, and out-of-wedlock pregnancies.

A second phase covering crimes such as theft and robbery is to be implemented later this year, involving more stringent penalties such as severing of limbs and flogging.

Late next year, punishments such as death by stoning for offences including sodomy and adultery will be introduced.

The monarch's wealth – estimated three years ago at $20bn by Forbes magazine – has become legendary, with reports of a vast collection of luxury vehicles and huge, gold-bedecked palaces.

The monarchy was deeply embarrassed by a sensational family feud between Hassanal and his younger brother Jefri Bolkiah over the latter's alleged embezzlement of $15bn during his tenure as finance minister in the 1990s.

Court battles and exposés revealed salacious details of Jefri's jetset lifestyle, including allegations of a harem of western paramours and a luxury yacht he owned called "Tits".

Bruneians enjoy among the highest standards of living in Asia due to the country's energy wealth, with education, medicine and other social services heavily subsidised.

The sultan first proposed the sharia penal code in 1990s, and in recent years has increasingly warned of rising crime and pernicious outside influences including the internet. He has called Islam a "firewall" against globalisation.

He announced the implementation plans in October.

Brunei is the first country in east or south-east Asia to introduce a sharia penal code on a national level.

Situated on Borneo island, which it shares with Malaysia and Indonesia, the small state already practised a relatively conservative form of Islam compared with its Muslim-majority neighbours, banning the sale of alcohol and restricting other religions.

Muslim ethnic Malays, who make up about 70% of the population, are broadly supportive of the move by their revered father-figure.

But some Malays and non-Muslim citizens privately express unease. About 15% of Brunei's people are non-Muslim ethnic Chinese.

Earlier this year, many users of Brunei's active social media – the only avenue for public criticism of authorities – denounced the penal code as barbaric and out of step with the gentle Bruneian national character.

The move could indicate the sultan is becoming more conservative as he ages, said Joseph Chinyong Liow, a Singapore-based professor of Muslim politics.

"The sultan himself is at a point where there is a need to come to terms with religious identity, both personally and for the country," he said.

Liow said the sultan may have viewed sharia as a popular step, as support grows among some Muslims in south-east Asia for a post-colonial return to Islamic roots.

Brunei's legal system currently features civil courts along with sharia-compliant chambers handling non-criminal issues such as marital and inheritance cases.

The UN's human rights office said this month it was deeply concerned about the changes, adding that women typically bore the brunt of punishment for crimes involving sex.

"It's a return to medieval punishment," said Phil Robertson, deputy Asia director for Human Rights Watch. "It's a huge step back for human rights in Brunei and totally out of step with the 21st century."

Officials have said judges will face high burdens of proof, and will have wide discretion to avoid sharia punishments.

**daedalus**

Well, that sounds 100% correct in a world where either everything is a hilarious joke or the ramifications of how horrible literally every single one of us is too terrible to even begin to fully comprehend.

What's the problem?

**DarkTraveler777**

"Theory states that Allah's law is cruel and unfair but Allah himself has said that his law is indeed fair," he said.

Nuff said for me! How can you debate someone with such a unassailable counter point?

**easysauce**

No other president gets questioned like this...
why are you so racist against obama?

(que thanks obama trope troopers)

**Alex Kolodotschko**

I read the title as Brunel.

**Breotan**

Here's the video of President Obama praising our ally.

**Frazzled**

Well in his defense, the Sultan of Brunei, was just following the Sultan of Burnett (Texas) who had recently declared that a fatwa against Austin (for taking all the water).. LALALALALA

**feeder**

The only people who have something to fear from this are those who are breaking the law. Don't want to get flogged? Don't break the law. What's the problem here, exactly?

**dementedwombat**

feeder wrote:
The only people who have something to fear from this are those who are breaking the law. Don't want to get flogged? Don't break the law. What's the problem here, exactly?

Not really sure if you're serious about this, but that is the kind of statement I am tempted to go along with. Don't want to get in trouble with the law? Don't do anything illegal. We're fine here.

**Jihadin**

Wow. This is like a first. As in a Asian country going all out Islamic.

**Desubot**

Id like a yacht called "tits"

**H.B.M.C.**

I was reading the thread title and saying "Please don't be facetious! Please don't be facetious!"… but it was. I was hoping for an article showing Brunei as a paragon of modernity and progress despite having a supreme (if benevolent) dictator. But no, we have a country who isn’t just taking a step back but instead has actually turned around and leaps head-first towards the stone age.

Shame.

**AlmightyWalrus**

Jihadin wrote:
Wow. This is like a first. As in a Asian country going all out Islamic.

What definition of "Asia" are you using?

**Allod**

dementedwombat wrote:
feeder wrote:
The only people who have something to fear from this are those who are breaking the law. Don't want to get flogged? Don't break the law. What's the problem here, exactly?
Not really sure if you're serious about this, but that is the kind of statement I am tempted to go along with. Don't want to get in trouble with the law? Don't do anything illegal. We're fine here.

The two of you don't truly realize that Shari'a criminal law, for example, is not just a western criminal code with harsher punishments, do you?

This is less about flogging, amputating hands and stoning (though for the life of me I can not see why anybody would be fine with such barbarism) and more about replacing fair trials with an early medieval punishment lottery. And then there's still the farce that is the civil law part of Shari'a.

"We're fine here" indeed. Don't be so terribly callous about what is basically a slap in the face of civilization.

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are some people expressing surprise that the USA is allying itself with a country that has a dubious human rights record?

In all my years of reading various books on American history, I can honestly say, hand on heart, this is a first.

**Sturmtruppen**

Allod wrote:
dementedwombat wrote:
feeder wrote:
The only people who have something to fear from this are those who are breaking the law. Don't want to get flogged? Don't break the law. What's the problem here, exactly?
Not really sure if you're serious about this, but that is the kind of statement I am tempted to go along with. Don't want to get in trouble with the law? Don't do anything illegal. We're fine here.

The two of you don't truly realize that Shari'a criminal law, for example, is not just a western criminal code with harsher punishments, do you?

This is less about flogging, amputating hands and stoning (though for the life of me I can not see why anybody would be fine with such barbarism) and more about replacing fair trials with an early medieval punishment lottery. And then there's still the farce that is the civil law part of Shari'a.

"We're fine here" indeed. Don't be so terribly callous about what is basically a slap in the face of civilization.

I agree. It's this nothing to hide, nothing to fear attitude that has enabled our own societies to continue to do outrageous things, like locking people up for growing a plant that people like to smoke, mass surveillance, incarceration of suspects without trial on the shaky and manipulable grounds of terrorism.

It's rather ironic that those two are from democracies, countries where on paper at least, the people vote for the party who will change the law, and make the changes the voter wants to see. And yet you see these guys saying "the law is the law" as if, like this theocratic dictatorship believes, there's some irrefutable set of laws and the citizen has no right to disagree with them, regardless of what basic human rights they violate. If you don't want to go to concentration camp, don't be a Jew, right?

**Medium of Death**

Obama didn't really praise the Sultan in a particularly obvious way. I highly doubt, as an educated individual, your President seriously rates the Sultan of Brunei as an outstanding guy.

Simply another place that doesn't need to be visited, not that I had any particular interest anyway.

Clearly another amazing example of why we should be weeding mandatory religion out of peoples daily lives.

Shariah based laws are particularly odious. I doubt we'll see any real hardline against these tyrants until their oil runs out.

**Orlanth**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
I was reading the thread title and saying "Please don't be facetious! Please don't be facetious!"… but it was. I was hoping for an article showing Brunei as a paragon of modernity and progress despite having a supreme (if benevolent) dictator. But no, we have a country who isn’t just taking a step back but instead has actually turned around and leaps head-first towards the stone age.

Shame.

I wonder why this and now? Does the Sultan feel that bringing in fundamentalism, and controlling is securing his medium term position. If so what does he fear more, is this a firebreak so that the crown leads the faithful and not the clerics, to outdo any rising would be Ayatollah? Or is the threat of a different nature, a wall of questions brought upon by modern media tools. I can see the internet being the single biggest problem he has, as Brunei has not enough clout to control it, even China cannot manage.
There is something behind so sudden and drastic a move, I wonder what it is.

**Frazzled**

He's old and suddenly scared about the whole dying thing?

**SickSix**

So we have two posters here that are totally fine with female genital mutilation? You know that is also part of sharia right?

And I am not surprised at all that Obama loves the guy.

**Frazzled**

Actually thats an North African tradition, and is not related to Sharia (and agreed it is bad). Brunei is in Asia.

**motyak**

Frazzled wrote:
Actually thats an North African tradition, and is not related to Sharia (and agreed it is bad). Brunei is in Asia.

Well not related isn't quite accurate, but some Islamic law councils have ruled that it has no basis in faith, and if you are going after the North African/Egyptian followers of Islam for having practiced it, you should go after the Christians from the same area too. Which really just supports what Fraz said, that it is more of a North African tradition than a specifically Islamic one. While there are other countries where they consider it to be a religious requirement, but these are, ahh, hardly the most developed countries. So that probably is more because it is a part of their pre-Islam culture than because of the religion

note: the above is drawn from some brief internet reading and wiki, and as such it could be wildly inaccurate, but if you are going to call it as such then do reference something.

Also,

Medium of Death wrote:
Obama didn't really praise the Sultan in a particularly obvious way. I highly doubt, as an educated individual, your President seriously rates the Sultan of Brunei as an outstanding guy.

Well said. It'd be super surprising if he actually thought he was a good bloke and what not. Well, super surprising to people who don't believe he's an evil Muslim Communist Fascist Kenyan who snuck into the US to become president.

**dementedwombat**

Sturmtruppen wrote:
Allod wrote:
dementedwombat wrote:
feeder wrote:
The only people who have something to fear from this are those who are breaking the law. Don't want to get flogged? Don't break the law. What's the problem here, exactly?
Not really sure if you're serious about this, but that is the kind of statement I am tempted to go along with. Don't want to get in trouble with the law? Don't do anything illegal. We're fine here.

The two of you don't truly realize that Shari'a criminal law, for example, is not just a western criminal code with harsher punishments, do you?

This is less about flogging, amputating hands and stoning (though for the life of me I can not see why anybody would be fine with such barbarism) and more about replacing fair trials with an early medieval punishment lottery. And then there's still the farce that is the civil law part of Shari'a.

"We're fine here" indeed. Don't be so terribly callous about what is basically a slap in the face of civilization.

I agree. It's this nothing to hide, nothing to fear attitude that has enabled our own societies to continue to do outrageous things, like locking people up for growing a plant that people like to smoke, mass surveillance, incarceration of suspects without trial on the shaky and manipulable grounds of terrorism.

It's rather ironic that those two are from democracies, countries where on paper at least, the people vote for the party who will change the law, and make the changes the voter wants to see. And yet you see these guys saying "the law is the law" as if, like this theocratic dictatorship believes, there's some irrefutable set of laws and the citizen has no right to disagree with them, regardless of what basic human rights they violate. If you don't want to go to concentration camp, don't be a Jew, right?

I now find myself in the rather unfortunate position of having to explain myself. As far as democracy goes I've always kind of looked at myself as outside it (not above, outside). I don't really care what the system is. I just care that there is a system and that it keeps going so we don't end up in total anarchy. I've always been a supporter of any system that works to maintain a stable set of living conditions for its citizens. The system they have is unarguably not the best one that they are capable of having, but the alternative of trying to go through all the conflict necessary to stop this from happening and to establish something better would probably be worse.

**feeder**

dementedwombat wrote:
feeder wrote:
The only people who have something to fear from this are those who are breaking the law. Don't want to get flogged? Don't break the law. What's the problem here, exactly?
Not really sure if you're serious about this, but that is the kind of statement I am tempted to go along with. Don't want to get in trouble with the law? Don't do anything illegal. We're fine here.

Poe's Law. Sorry.

SickSix wrote:So we have two posters here that are totally fine with female genital mutilation? You know that is also part of sharia right?.

Better stay the feth away from Israel, right? Those genital mutilating jerks must wind you right up, too!

**LordofHats**

Better stay the feth away from Israel, right? Those genital mutilating jerks must wind you right up, too!

We could debate the ethics of male circumcision, but I think it's hard to compare it to the mutilation inducted on girls under those that believe in that brand of sharia.

Imagine being twelve years old and having your dick cut off for being a sin stick and leaving you with some mutilated stub with a pee hole and you might be getting close to a good comparison. And that's not even talking about the 'do it yourself with a rusty razor' nature of the procedures. No anesthetic. Real men suck it up.

**motyak**

I think he meant the Bedouin in Israel, who apparently engage in female circumcision as well.

**H.B.M.C.**

motyak wrote:
I think he meant the Bedouin in Israel, who apparently engage in female circumcision as well.

Or he was taking a free kick as Israel.

**Jihadin**

No anesthetic. Real men suck it up.

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

Okay, I am confused by OP. The U.S.A. have been BFF with Saudi Arabia for, what, more than 70 years already, is it not ? So, how could they fall lower in any way? How could Brunei be worse than Saudi Arabia? Not saying we are in any way better over here, it is the same gak.

**djones520**

It's all about the oil...

Saudi has a ton of it, Brunei has a ton of it. Funny part is he makes kissy face with these despots to keep that oil flowing, but doesn't want to fully open our own capabilities, thereby making us able to break that dependency, and maybe begin to hold those guys accountable for their actions.