US to assist with locating kidnapped Nigerian girls

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**Medium of Death**

NuggzTheNinja wrote:
kronk wrote:
If Nigeria is asking for international help to recover 200+ kidnapped school girls, plus however many others that they may be holding, I say let's help them.

This is an example of what we should be doing.

Who is this "we" you speak of? Will you be going to help with their scavenger hunt?

Are you trying to say that the actions of a nations armed forces don't reflect on its people and that they shouldn't have a say?

**Ouze**

This is an opinion I've seen expressed often; that civilians who don't wear a uniform somehow don't have a right to an opinion on military matters. I guess we're just relegated to paying for every article of clothing a soldier wears, the rifle in his hands, the ammunition he shoots, the food he eats, and his healthcare for life. Remember - shut up and pay your taxes!

The meta-level irony here is that Kronk was told to shut up on a forum that, as a DCM, he freely helps financially support by someone who does not.

**NuggzTheNinja**

Medium of Death wrote:
NuggzTheNinja wrote:
kronk wrote:
If Nigeria is asking for international help to recover 200+ kidnapped school girls, plus however many others that they may be holding, I say let's help them.

This is an example of what we should be doing.

Who is this "we" you speak of? Will you be going to help with their scavenger hunt?

Are you trying to say that the actions of a nations armed forces don't reflect on its people and that they shouldn't have a say?

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but unless you actually have a dog in the fight (i.e., you are going, or you know people who are), it's kind of weak to say offhand, "Let's risk someone else's life to do what I find to be morally correct."

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ouze wrote:
This is an opinion I've seen expressed often; that civilians who don't wear a uniform somehow don't have a right to an opinion on military matters. I guess we're just relegated to paying for every article of clothing a soldier wears, the rifle in his hands, the ammunition he shoots, the food he eats, and his healthcare for life. Remember - shut up and pay your taxes!

The meta-level irony here is that Kronk was told to shut up on a forum that, as a DCM, he freely helps financially support by someone who does not.

This analogy is completely derptastic, but feel free to send your toy soldiers to look for these girls if that rubs your moral compass the right way.

**Frazzled**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
Making it both hrd to ignore and hard to justify when things like this come up. Im quite frankly against Isolationism.

But you're in college with no skin in the game when your "against isolation."
As a Dad I'm hyper pro isolation.

**Medium of Death**

Isn't that the point of the armed forces? Doing what people who are out of harms way tell you to do?

American or British (as Britain has said they'll send troops) are probably more likely to fair better in this particular situation given the type of conflicts that they've been fighting recently. I don't think people are disregarding the possibility of soldiers dying, they are more likely thinking that either of these two nations are more likely to get the job done.

**SlaveToDorkness**

If our objective is to rescue these poor girls I say no. At this point it's going to be like sending the fire department to watch your house finish burning. After 3 weeks these girls are gone.

Much like Syria, we should have helped a long time ago.

If the objective is to blow the gak out of these dirtbags then yes, we go and we let the Specials do what they do best.

**NuggzTheNinja**

Medium of Death wrote:
Isn't that the point of the armed forces? Doing what people who are out of harms way tell you to do?

American or British (as Britain has said they'll send troops) are probably more likely to fair better in this particular situation given the type of conflicts that they've been fighting recently. I don't think people are disregarding the possibility of soldiers dying, they are more likely thinking that either of these two nations are more likely to get the job done.

.

The United States Army serves as the land-based branch of the U.S. Armed Forces. §3062 of Title 10 US Code defines the purpose of the army as:[8][9]
Preserving the peace and security and providing for the defense of the United States, the Commonwealths and possessions and any areas occupied by the United States
Supporting the national policies
Implementing the national objectives
Overcoming any nations responsible for aggressive acts that imperil the peace and security of the United States

According to Wikipedia, is the "mission" of the US Army. It might be tough to shoehorn the wellbeing of Nigerians into that, unless we want to adopt a Team America World Police national policy.

**SlaveToDorkness**

I just want to see John Kerry say "feth YEAH!"

**Ouze**

SlaveToDorkness wrote:
If our objective is to rescue these poor girls I say no. At this point it's going to be like sending the fire department to watch your house finish burning. After 3 weeks these girls are gone.

I think you're probably right on that latter element.

**Medium of Death**

Wouldn't they be sending hostage rescue specialists to deal with this problem? Do they all fall under the Army?

I guess the main danger here is getting embroiled with another Islamic Fundamentalist group while the two that the UK & US (and others) are fighting are still around causing problems.

**whembly**

Ouze wrote:
I have mixed feelings. I've generally been a champion of isolationist policies in the past. I didn't want us to get involved militarily in Syria, or Libya, or the Ukraine. I'm a pretty ardent supporter of John Quincy Adam's advice on this:

America does not go abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own.

So, there's that on the one hand. We're not the world police.

On the other hand, feth these guys. If there were ever dudes that need to get got, it's these guys. There are plenty of ways I can rationalize how this is different: Libya was (and is) unclear as to where our best interest lies, same with Syria, you could sort of call the Nigerian situation piracy, which has long been a universal crime that any interested jurisdiction can prosecute - and so on. But at the end of the days that's a lot of self serving crap. These guys kidnapped a large number of children who's only crime was going to school, and we can probably help to get them back home. I think we should, consistency be damned.

I like this... a lot.

Consistency be damned indeed.

**CptJake**

Personally, I think providing intel and a couple of advisors to either Nigerian SOF or some African Union unit is about as far as I would like to see this go.

Inevitably, any rescue mission is going to end up with dead hostages. If the Nigerians or AU do it, they'll pat themselves on the back for the ones saved and brush off the international media condemnation.

If it was a US unit that did the takedown, we'll be hammered in the press and for a variety of reasons, that ends up being a very bad thing.

**kronk**

NuggzTheNinja wrote:
Medium of Death wrote:
NuggzTheNinja wrote:
kronk wrote:
If Nigeria is asking for international help to recover 200+ kidnapped school girls, plus however many others that they may be holding, I say let's help them.

This is an example of what we should be doing.

Who is this "we" you speak of? Will you be going to help with their scavenger hunt?

Are you trying to say that the actions of a nations armed forces don't reflect on its people and that they shouldn't have a say?

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but unless you actually have a dog in the fight (i.e., you are going, or you know people who are), it's kind of weak to say offhand, "Let's risk someone else's life to do what I find to be morally correct."

Edit: You're not worth it.

**reds8n**

Back to the topic please folks.

Ta.

**Frazzled**

CptJake wrote:
Personally, I think providing intel and a couple of advisors to either Nigerian SOF or some African Union unit is about as far as I would like to see this go.

Inevitably, any rescue mission is going to end up with dead hostages. If the Nigerians or AU do it, they'll pat themselves on the back for the ones saved and brush off the international media condemnation.

If it was a US unit that did the takedown, we'll be hammered in the press and for a variety of reasons, that ends up being a very bad thing.

Agreed. Nigeria is not a place we want to get embroiled in, and they would love us to.
Nigeria has multiple rebel groups and is a poster boy for "unstable African nation ."

Automatically Appended Next Post:

kronk wrote:
NuggzTheNinja wrote:
Medium of Death wrote:
NuggzTheNinja wrote:
kronk wrote:
If Nigeria is asking for international help to recover 200+ kidnapped school girls, plus however many others that they may be holding, I say let's help them.

This is an example of what we should be doing.

Who is this "we" you speak of? Will you be going to help with their scavenger hunt?

Are you trying to say that the actions of a nations armed forces don't reflect on its people and that they shouldn't have a say?

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but unless you actually have a dog in the fight (i.e., you are going, or you know people who are), it's kind of weak to say offhand, "Let's risk someone else's life to do what I find to be morally correct."

Edit: You're not worth it.

Hey I'm worth it!

A question -would they still be in Nigeria at this point? I'd bet good money they are being shipped out of country.

**hotsauceman1**

Frazzled wrote:
hotsauceman1 wrote:
Making it both hrd to ignore and hard to justify when things like this come up. Im quite frankly against Isolationism.

But you're in college with no skin in the game when your "against isolation."
As a Dad I'm hyper pro isolation.

But in aa world where more and more things are global, can we afford to be Isolationist?
And Im sure I have skin, I mean, I would be bleeding to death if I had no skin.

**Frazzled**

Can we afford to not be isolationist?

When Switizerland, China, Saudia Arabia, and Brazil are sending their armies out, come back to me.

**ironicsilence**

Has there been any mention of what resources the US is sending? I've been rather out of the loop on this issue

**NuggzTheNinja**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
hotsauceman1 wrote:
Making it both hrd to ignore and hard to justify when things like this come up. Im quite frankly against Isolationism.

But you're in college with no skin in the game when your "against isolation."
As a Dad I'm hyper pro isolation.

But in aa world where more and more things are global, can we afford to be Isolationist?
And Im sure I have skin, I mean, I would be bleeding to death if I had no skin.

I see what you're saying...the issue is that our interests are intertwined with what happens in other nations.

The question is, does this qualify as "our" interests?

**SlaveToDorkness**

I'm going to have to say a firm "no".

Horrible gak happens throughout the world we can't fix it all. Maybe if Nigeria has to actually deal with it's own heinous issues it might help it grow up.

**Allod**

Hm. To be honest, I don't think there is a *group* of girls left to rescue, they're probably pretty dispersed by now.

Staying consistent with what I said on the death sentences in Egypt, I must confess that I'd have a pretty hard time working up compassion if somebody bombed the gak out of Boko Haram, but I doubt that it'd change much. If West African nations want a firewall against muslim extremists, they will have to build it themselves (which we could and should assist), it's not as if the Americans could drop a functioning civil society from stealth bombers.

**daedalus**

SlaveToDorkness wrote:
I'm going to have to say a firm "no".

Horrible gak happens throughout the world we can't fix it all. Maybe if Nigeria has to actually deal with it's own heinous issues it might help it grow up.

Truly, Nigeria just needs to

pick itself up by its bootstraps

The US has the best military in the world, in pretty much every way possible. It took us 10 years to kill one guy. How long do you think it will take them to find a bunch of girls help captive somewhere in fething Africa.

I strongly detest America playing world police. I hate self-serving military conflict. This is the one and only situation I think I've seen that, when asked for help, we should send in everything. Acts of cruelty and just pure evil of this magnitude can't be left unbalanced.

We might be getting our hands dirty once again at a time where the last thing we want to do is waste 10 more years of resources and lives in some crapsack place, but we're better than that. Better we be doing it for the sake of some helpless women abducted by fundamentalist pedophiles than for prime government contracts.

**ironicsilence**

Everyone seems to be talking like we are sending in the Marines to burn them out....which is just not the case. The US Armed forces are not being sent it to deal with this
"The technical experts heading to Nigeria will include U.S. military and law enforcement personnel skilled in intelligence, investigations, hostage negotiating, information sharing and victim assistance, as well as officials with expertise in other areas, White House spokesman Jay Carney said.

U.S. armed forces were not being sent, Carney noted."

More likely its prolly a team from the state department and a team from the FBI

Not saying that there isnt a chance in the future for a seal team 6 raid on a compound...but for right now the boots on the ground are law enforcement and not armed forces

**Seaward**

ironicsilence wrote:
Has there been any mention of what resources the US is sending? I've been rather out of the loop on this issue

I don't think there has been.

My guess? A token amount. A couple drones, maybe some JSOC staff guys to pad the resume. And since where JSOC goes the FBI goes these days, a few special agents.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

ironicsilence wrote:
Everyone seems to be talking like we are sending in the Marines to burn them out....which is just not the case. The US Armed forces are not being sent it to deal with this
"The technical experts heading to Nigeria will include U.S. military and law enforcement personnel skilled in intelligence, investigations, hostage negotiating, information sharing and victim assistance, as well as officials with expertise in other areas, White House spokesman Jay Carney said.

U.S. armed forces were not being sent, Carney noted."

More likely its prolly a team from the state department and a team from the FBI

Not saying that there isnt a chance in the future for a seal team 6 raid on a compound...but for right now the boots on the ground are law enforcement and not armed forces

I'm curious how military and law enforcement personnel aren't "armed forces," but then a lot of things Carney says confuse me.

**Jihadin**

Jebus that was a goof on Carney part. Though I have to say. Whatever Carney getting paid they need to triple it. He does a Heck of a tap dance on the podium

**Ensis Ferrae**

NuggzTheNinja wrote:
kronk wrote:
If Nigeria is asking for international help to recover 200+ kidnapped school girls, plus however many others that they may be holding, I say let's help them.

This is an example of what we should be doing.

Who is this "we" you speak of? Will you be going to help with their scavenger hunt?

As someone who Kronk's taxes paid for, I agree with him. It shows some in the international community that "we" the American people, when asked to help in a situation, will give the help needed. I can't think of too many Americans who wouldnt be behind his line of thinking (and honestly, those who don't actually agree with this line of thinking seem to gravitate towards the extreme ends of the political spectrum)

As to what this "help" would end up being, I can't particularly say, but I'd hope it includes a can of whoop ass:

Spoiler:

**Frazzled**

I'm sure no one will remind him of that when he returns to journalism.

**Jihadin**

I love the C17
Look at all that leg room

**CptJake**

Jihadin wrote:
I love the C17
Look at all that leg room

I once had the pleasure of the guy sitting across from me in a C130 yacking all over my pants, ruck and reserve. Bless his heart.

**whembly**

Jihadin wrote:
I love the C17
Look at all that leg room

You may have that leg room... but, jeebus, those seats look uncomfortable. o.O