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 poda_t wrote:
Do you pay to use this site? No? Shut your can. I've paid $100 to support the site so far. I have no complaint with what goes on here. What support have you offered?

If you pay another $100, you unlock the "get-some-class" option.

 gothmog wrote:


I think it is a problem because when a MOD advoctes a KS, they carry more weight that some Joe doing the same thing.

Nope. Not even remotely.

I've even got into heated arguments with mods over the Kickstarters they (seemed) to support, and they didn't use any of their vast moderator-superpowers to take vengeance on me, even when they thought I was smoking crack. If you could cite some kind of example of mods abusing their ability to censor/delete posts or to lock threads in order to quash dissent of a KS, or of a mod preventing someone from giving the community accurate information that might prevent investment in a mod-supported KS, you might have a case.

But simply supporting a KS hardly makes them a 'shill.'

The role of Dakka is to provide a place for people to communicate openly, peacefully, and intelligently about the wargaming hobby. Moderators are simply users that have been selected to help keep that process going, usually by maintaining the 'peacefully' and 'intelligently' portions of the equation. They are still allowed to have opinions, though. If someone starts a thread on 'What GW did wrong this week!' and a mod weighs in (pro- or anti-GW, doesn't matter), that doesn't make him a 'shill' for Games Workshop (or their competitors, as the case may be).

If anything, the mods' consistent exposure to the wargaming hobby seems to make many of them jaded and cynical. I think the opinion of a mod on a KS carries less weight than a normal person, especially if it's a negative one.

"Oh, insaniak thinks this mohawk-festooned-drug-crazed-gangbanger Kickstarter is played out and boring. Well, he might have seen this crap a hundred times, but I've never seen it before...I'll back that sucker."*




*Nothing personal, insaniak. Just an example.

 gothmog wrote:

 poda_t wrote:
Do you pay to use this site? No? Shut your can. I've paid $100 to support the site so far. I have no complaint with what goes on here. What support have you offered?

If you pay another $100, you unlock the "get-some-class" option.

So we should start you a kick-starter so you can finally get some of that?

 gothmog wrote:
Whether you like it or not, a MOD's opinion alters the discourse more than regular members.

I think you are greatly overestimating the power a moderator wields to win friends and influence people.

Heck, even mod warnings often do not result in discourse being altered by regular members (as evidenced by a plethora of locked threads).

 gothmog wrote:


I think it is poor taste for MODS to be promoting KS or anything else while logged in as a MOD. Whether you like it or not, a MOD's opinion alters the discourse more than regular members.

Yeah, they really don't. If Alpharius said something about a project I might listen more simply because I know from previous interactions that our tastes are roughly aligned. If insaniak or kid_kyoto or even yakface said something I wouldn't really care not because I think they're doing anything shady but I simply don't know them that well. I'd rate Azazelx's opinion higher than pretty much all of the mods because, again, our interests have shown to largely align. Has nothing to so with a MOD or DCM tag and everything to do with *who those people are as people*.

Hell, scarletsquig convinced me to drop 4 figures on DeadZone (and all I got was this t-shirt!) and he isn't even a DCM. He is, however, very helpful and insightful, and that will always trump the letters that appear under someone's name.

I've always been a fan of the mods on this site that speak and discuss topics as equals rather than with any air of authority.

Of course, there is the occasional mod-text.

 gothmog wrote:
I think it is poor taste for MODS to be promoting KS or anything else while logged in as a MOD

Yes, but you appear to think that because you think this site is something it is not.

Whether you like it or not, a MOD's opinion alters the discourse more than regular members.

Only if you let it.

I've had plenty of people disagree with my opinions over the time I have been a Mod. Unless it is something actually related to moderating this site, nobody is in any way obliged to treat my opinion as being worth any more than anyone else's. If I'm posting that I like something, it's because I like it. Being a moderator has no bearing on that... and other posters are free to agree or disagree as they see fit.

And, really, I'm still not seeing just what you're perceiving as a problem. If I post that I support a particular Kickstarter, and people choose to (for some bizarre reason) assume that the [MOD] under my username means that they should therefore check out that same kickstarter, they're still not going to automatically support that Kickstarter just because I did. At most (again, assuming you're correct and my position gives my opinion more weight), my posting might get a few more people to look at the Kickstarter who might not have otherwise. And that is a problem... why... exactly?


I should also point out that there is no 'logged in as a MOD'. Or rather, we're always logged in as a MOD. But when not actively engaged in moderating, we're just regular posters sharing our hobby, like everyone else here.

 gothmog wrote:



I think it is poor taste for MODS to be promoting KS or anything else while logged in as a MOD. Whether you like it or not, a MOD's opinion alters the discourse more than regular members.

No, it doesn't.

I've been banned MULTIPLE times in the past 6 months.

I've never changed the content I say or what I think simply because a mod thinks differently. I've merely become more tactful at it.

In fact, that use of tact (and a liberal use of th backspace key) are preventing me from getting banned in this thread.

You're way off base here, and you seem to have no real understanding of the "points" you're trying to make. Making the dakka dakka forum mods analogous to inside traders was particularly hilarious though. So thanks for that little gem.

 Bookwrack wrote:

 gothmog wrote:

 poda_t wrote:
Do you pay to use this site? No? Shut your can. I've paid $100 to support the site so far. I have no complaint with what goes on here. What support have you offered?

If you pay another $100, you unlock the "get-some-class" option.

So we should start you a kick-starter so you can finally get some of that?

What? WoW! You really got me there.

Normally I would think we should lock this...but can we just exterminate the thread? This is idiocy of the highest order.

 Jimsolo wrote:
Nothing personal, insaniak. Just an example.

No problem. See you in a week.

 insaniak wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
Nothing personal, insaniak. Just an example.

No problem. See you in a week.

Awesome.

 insaniak wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
Nothing personal, insaniak. Just an example.

No problem. See you in a week.

#rekt

 gothmog wrote:

 Bookwrack wrote:

 gothmog wrote:

 poda_t wrote:
Do you pay to use this site? No? Shut your can. I've paid $100 to support the site so far. I have no complaint with what goes on here. What support have you offered?

If you pay another $100, you unlock the "get-some-class" option.

So we should start you a kick-starter so you can finally get some of that?

What? WoW! You really got me there.

The fact that you've only started responded to the insults instead of the well reasoned and balanced statements in this thread shows me it wasn't about getting your opinion out there, but actively creating issues and frustration, i.e. trolling.

I can see how confusing the DCM and Mod tags could've made this a bigger misunderstanding than it already was. But I think the point is, people can have opinions on whatever they like here, and a mod or anyone saying they like a certain company isn't a conflict- it's the point of a forum!

I used to be a DCM. Then I saw through the sham, the money and the drugs, and the secret Fight Clubs the Mods operate. I knew then that it was time to leave.

That...or I maybe...forgot to, uh, make the next year's payment

 jonolikespie wrote:
I carry more weight as a DCM?

Dammit I wish someone told me that months ago.
NON DCM PEASANTS, BRING ME WINE!

*Whiiinnne!*Do I haaave tooo? I dooo'nnnt waaannnaa! *Whiiinnne*

The Auld Grump

 insaniak wrote:

 gothmog wrote:
I think it is poor taste for MODS to be promoting KS or anything else while logged in as a MOD

Yes, but you appear to think that because you think this site is something it is not.

Whether you like it or not, a MOD's opinion alters the discourse more than regular members.

Only if you let it.

I've had plenty of people disagree with my opinions over the time I have been a Mod. Unless it is something actually related to moderating this site, nobody is in any way obliged to treat my opinion as being worth any more than anyone else's. If I'm posting that I like something, it's because I like it. Being a moderator has no bearing on that... and other posters are free to agree or disagree as they see fit.

And, really, I'm still not seeing just what you're perceiving as a problem. If I post that I support a particular Kickstarter, and people choose to (for some bizarre reason) assume that the [MOD] under my username means that they should therefore check out that same kickstarter, they're still not going to automatically support that Kickstarter just because I did. At most (again, assuming you're correct and my position gives my opinion more weight), my posting might get a few more people to look at the Kickstarter who might not have otherwise. And that is a problem... why... exactly?


I should also point out that there is no 'logged in as a MOD'. Or rather, we're always logged in as a MOD. But when not actively engaged in moderating, we're just regular posters sharing our hobby, like everyone else here.

Yeah, with all due respect, disagreeing about a model or a certain army build is a lot different than advocating investing in a KS. That's all I'm saying. But I see that I didn't approach this the right way. So be it. At least you guys proved that this is a forum of free discussion. Except for the "I pay money so I can talk, but you can't because you don't, so go away" guy. He paid a $100 to prove my point.

 Cyporiean wrote:
Yes, I personally line the pockets of at least 3 mods here to promote my Kickstarters.

How do I get a piece of this action???

 gunslingerpro wrote:

 gothmog wrote:

 Bookwrack wrote:

 gothmog wrote:

 poda_t wrote:
Do you pay to use this site? No? Shut your can. I've paid $100 to support the site so far. I have no complaint with what goes on here. What support have you offered?

If you pay another $100, you unlock the "get-some-class" option.

So we should start you a kick-starter so you can finally get some of that?

What? WoW! You really got me there.

The fact that you've only started responded to the insults instead of the well reasoned and balanced statements in this thread shows me it wasn't about getting your opinion out there, but actively creating issues and frustration, i.e. trolling.

Yeah, hey, pot, meet the kettle.

 gothmog wrote:
But I see that I didn't approach this the right way.

You called board members 'shills' in the title.

It took you three pages to figure out that was the wrong way to do things?

 Manchu wrote:

 Cyporiean wrote:
Yes, I personally line the pockets of at least 3 mods here to promote my Kickstarters.

How do I get a piece of this action???

Step 1) Back my Kickstarter.
Step 2) Shill it.
Step 3) ????
Step 4) Profit!

 gothmog wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 gothmog wrote:
I think it is poor taste for MODS to be promoting KS or anything else while logged in as a MOD

Yes, but you appear to think that because you think this site is something it is not.

Whether you like it or not, a MOD's opinion alters the discourse more than regular members.

Only if you let it.

I've had plenty of people disagree with my opinions over the time I have been a Mod. Unless it is something actually related to moderating this site, nobody is in any way obliged to treat my opinion as being worth any more than anyone else's. If I'm posting that I like something, it's because I like it. Being a moderator has no bearing on that... and other posters are free to agree or disagree as they see fit.

And, really, I'm still not seeing just what you're perceiving as a problem. If I post that I support a particular Kickstarter, and people choose to (for some bizarre reason) assume that the [MOD] under my username means that they should therefore check out that same kickstarter, they're still not going to automatically support that Kickstarter just because I did. At most (again, assuming you're correct and my position gives my opinion more weight), my posting might get a few more people to look at the Kickstarter who might not have otherwise. And that is a problem... why... exactly?


I should also point out that there is no 'logged in as a MOD'. Or rather, we're always logged in as a MOD. But when not actively engaged in moderating, we're just regular posters sharing our hobby, like everyone else here.

Yeah, with all due respect, disagreeing about a model or a certain army build is a lot different than advocating investing in a KS. That's all I'm saying. But I see that I didn't approach this the right way. So be it. At least you guys proved that this is a forum of free discussion. Except for the "I pay money so I can talk, but you can't because you don't, so go away" guy. He paid a $100 to prove my point.

Except neither DCMs or mods have any real influence unless you are easily swayed by people with even the tiniest modicum of authority simply by virtue of having that authority. Non-mods post kickstarter threads all the time; in fact, most kickstarter threads are posted by non-mods. A mod saying "Hey, this is pretty neat!" in a Kickstarter thread doesn't influence anyone to support it, unless that person is, as I said, easily influenced by anyone with any semblance of authority, no matter how superficial that authority is. In fact, I haven't even noticed if there's any indication that a mod has posted in a thread without actually opening the thread and stumbling upon the post itself.


In short, yeah, you have your opinion, but it's based on absolutely nothing resembling reality and is a little insane.

 gothmog wrote:
Yeah, with all due respect, disagreeing about a model or a certain army build is a lot different than advocating investing in a KS. That's all I'm saying.

Yup. And what you're being told in response is that no, it really isn't.

In all three of those cases, all you're getting is the opinion of one gamer. Whether I tell you I like this model that GW just released, or tell you I like this model that Prodos are currently Kickstarting, you're getting the exact same thing.

Does someone else liking or disliking a model affect whether or not you do? Does who that person is affect that?

It shouldn't.

 gothmog wrote:


Yeah, with all due respect, disagreeing about a model or a certain army build is a lot different than advocating investing in a KS. That's all I'm saying. But I see that I didn't approach this the right way. So be it. At least you guys proved that this is a forum of free discussion. Except for the "I pay money so I can talk, but you can't because you don't, so go away" guy. He paid a $100 to prove my point.

Why? And how?

Because one is a weak willed individual easily influenced by acronyms?

 Manchu wrote:

 Cyporiean wrote:
Yes, I personally line the pockets of at least 3 mods here to promote my Kickstarters.

How do I get a piece of this action???

Well, first you have to use your influence as an Internet forum moderator to convince people to spend money. This is tricky, as the actual power of an Internet forum moderator is somewhere below "drive-thru cashier" and only slightly above "random guy yelling at the voices in his head in the street" but if you want that sweet, sweet shill money you've got to be creative!

 Accolade wrote:
I used to be a DCM. Then I saw through the sham, the money and the drugs, and the secret Fight Clubs the Mods operate. I knew then that it was time to leave.

That...or I maybe...forgot to, uh, make the next year's payment

You forgotten the first rule of Mod Fight Club........

 RiTides wrote:
I can see how confusing the DCM and Mod tags could've made this a bigger misunderstanding than it already was. But I think the point is, people can have opinions on whatever they like here, and a mod or anyone saying they like a certain company isn't a conflict- it's the point of a forum!

Thank you for being a true moderator! I admit that this post was probably not as tactful as it could have been.

 gothmog wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
I can see how confusing the DCM and Mod tags could've made this a bigger misunderstanding than it already was. But I think the point is, people can have opinions on whatever they like here, and a mod or anyone saying they like a certain company isn't a conflict- it's the point of a forum!

Thank you for being a true moderator! I admit that this post was probably not as tactful as it could have been.

The next step is admitting you've made little sense throughout this entire diatribe.

Then you can move forward!

It's like, a 12 step program.

When I first joined, I used to also think DCMs and MODs had a little more weight in the community, and influencing other posters. In fact, I had a discussion about something very similar with a moderator a few weeks ago when I became a contributing member about my experience when I first joined. I understand why a newer poster may not know exactly what weight a DCMs or MODs opinion is, but after spending several years here it means whatever you want it to mean. I've personally found that some people can be idiots or geniuses no matter their post count or tag. I became a DCM because I appreciate how the moderators operate this forum, and I wished to support them.

Assuming a Moderator's or "high post count" member's opinion has any more weight to it is entirely your own opinion. There is not a conflict of interest involved, although I understand how one could think that having a MOD tag automatically justifies someone's opinion(After all, they're competent enough to be chosen to be a moderator), but that's entirely a subjective view.

Any poster can disagree or agree with any moderator or contributing member- this is a discussion forum, and the moderator's job is to also foster discussion here. If a moderator didn't allow a poster to disagree with them about a kickstarter, then there may be a possible conflict of interest.