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 Zognob Gorgoff wrote:
It ignores the allies matrix???

I don't think you'll find it does - entirely. It ignores the FOC which only allows one ally. So you can now ally sm to chaos and tyranids but they are all 'come the apocalypse' allies.

Allies matrix has different restriction/penalties now for the different types of allies, my guess would be less BB armies but BB are the only ones to allow proper coop.
Desperate and come the apoc may be even worse than they currently are to balance your pick n mix army.

my 2 cent anyway.

...anyway even if im wrong it will let for some fluffy combos like genestealer cults and better construction of custom codex armies, my rebal grot and hive gang armies will be happy for the increased scope in rules proxy.

Not according to White Dwarf (although ti does contradict the previous months statements )

So, yes, this means you can simply play a game of Warhammer 40,000 with an army as random and diverse as you want. You could have Space Marine Sternguard Veterans, a Bloodthirster of Khorne, a Tyranid Exocrine, a Tau Riptide Battlesuit and a unit of
Eldar Guardians as your army.

Let the fail begin!

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Zognob Gorgoff wrote:
It ignores the allies matrix???

I don't think you'll find it does - entirely. It ignores the FOC which only allows one ally. So you can now ally sm to chaos and tyranids but they are all 'come the apocalypse' allies.

Allies matrix has different restriction/penalties now for the different types of allies, my guess would be less BB armies but BB are the only ones to allow proper coop.
Desperate and come the apoc may be even worse than they currently are to balance your pick n mix army.

my 2 cent anyway.

...anyway even if im wrong it will let for some fluffy combos like genestealer cults and better construction of custom codex armies, my rebal grot and hive gang armies will be happy for the increased scope in rules proxy.

Not according to White Dwarf (although ti does contradict the previous months statements )

So, yes, this means you can simply play a game of Warhammer 40,000 with an army as random and diverse as you want. You could have Space Marine Sternguard Veterans, a Bloodthirster of Khorne, a Tyranid Exocrine, a Tau Riptide Battlesuit and a unit of
Eldar Guardians as your army.

Yeah I get that, but what it doesn't say is the state of those allies which is what I was taking about. The allies chart isn't just about who can ally with who its about how they interact once allied. id guess you can take multiple allies as you can ignore foc but you still use the allies matrix for battle bros/come the apoc buffs/penalties. which will be rewritten to reflect the new army building rules. Hopefully that makes my point clearer.

 Jimsolo wrote:
Nothing but Lone Wolves. Just a giant wave of them. Just run them at the enemy and get them gunned down left and right.

I've already heard about this list. The thinking is that you hide one guy so you're not complete tabled, and the rest net you a cool 30 VP just dying. You don't have to worry about objectives or anything.


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 Selym wrote:
Y'know, it just goes to show how bad a codex is when you can't think of a good list, even without the FoC.

Except heldrakes. Because fk heldrakes.

#DepressedBitterCSMplayer

I don't know... If I had more Rhinos, I would do an all-Havocs Iron Warriors force with four heavy weapons in each squad that stands back shooting like mad, and squads in Rhinos with four plasma or four melta. Heck, just an all-mounted force of Havocs with plasma guns, melta guns, and flamers could be pretty nasty.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:
Not so much. Unless you're coming with a fully converted army of hi-tech human rogues using Tau hovertanks in place of IG armored vehicles, or some other reasonably fluffy army made by mixing and matching units from various codices like, say Hrud or AdMech or Ulumèathi or Pan Fo or something, I won't be playing against your unbound monstrosity. Aesthetics first, pure and simple

But you know... that gives me an insane idea.

I have a small selection of Tyranids at home. I'll almost certainly never try to do a whole Tyranid army. But what if I took those buggers and converted them to have wires and other bits stuck into them, and guys standing around with controls, like the AdMech or some insane Ordo Xenos group took a bunch of Tyranid corpses, attached machinery to them, and started controlling them in battle? Not sure what that'd be, maybe Tyranids/Inquisition, Tyranids/something-standing-in-as-AdMech (IG, SM, CSM, Tau?). But it would be kind of fun to model.

Oh. Oh wait. No. I have it now.

LOOTED Tyranids. Orks picking up the bugs and turning them into Ork weapons of war. Or even riding Tyranids into battle. Like Gretchin mounted on 'Gaunts to ride them into war.

I need to stop before I jump all over this...

I just wanna field 20 rune priests...
I can do it I swear they'll be different just give me like 4 hours to make my list.
JotWW everywhere
~cue thunder and evil laughter~

With a little conversion and imagination, everything is fluffy.

Tau have the easy answer for everything: no, that's not (X powerful unit from an army Tau would never ally with), its an alien auxiliary recruited from the world of N'bow'nd.

50 Eldar Warlocks all rolling on Daemonology? With a little conversions, it's a coven of Chaos Sorcerers just that happen to use Eldar rules.

I can do my Eldar Daemonmarine list!
Drop Pods landing swarms of Bloodletters while a Heldrake flies out of the Webway.
Completely ridiculous, GW.
It feels like Rogue Trader, but stupid.

"Hey Bob, what's your army?"
"A heldrake, another heldrake, another heldrake, another heldrake, another heldrake, another heldrake, and this vanilla sorcerer is their cheerleader."

Kyutaru wrote:
"Hey Bob, what's your army?"
"A heldrake, another heldrake, another heldrake, another heldrake, another heldrake, another heldrake, and this vanilla sorcerer is their cheerleader."

Yup I am already planning my all fliers list.

 ErikSetzer wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
Nothing but Lone Wolves. Just a giant wave of them. Just run them at the enemy and get them gunned down left and right.

I've already heard about this list. The thinking is that you hide one guy so you're not complete tabled, and the rest net you a cool 30 VP just dying. You don't have to worry about objectives or anything.

"How can you pluralize "Lone Ranger"? .... lone. Shouldn't you be the Three Rangers?"

 ErikSetzer wrote:


But you know... that gives me an insane idea.

I have a small selection of Tyranids at home. I'll almost certainly never try to do a whole Tyranid army. But what if I took those buggers and converted them to have wires and other bits stuck into them, and guys standing around with controls, like the AdMech or some insane Ordo Xenos group took a bunch of Tyranid corpses, attached machinery to them, and started controlling them in battle? Not sure what that'd be, maybe Tyranids/Inquisition, Tyranids/something-standing-in-as-AdMech (IG, SM, CSM, Tau?). But it would be kind of fun to model.

Oh. Oh wait. No. I have it now.

LOOTED Tyranids. Orks picking up the bugs and turning them into Ork weapons of war. Or even riding Tyranids into battle. Like Gretchin mounted on 'Gaunts to ride them into war.

I need to stop before I jump all over this...

This is exactly what I want to do. The sad thing is my FLGS has already stated that they will be doing mostly battle forged tournaments. And here I thought I was finally going to be able to use this guy

I am actually quite excited about this! I am looking at buying models I never would have bought before, but thought were awesome! I actually think this will be extremely popular in the casual scene. Can't wait!

 Lord Scythican wrote:

 ErikSetzer wrote:


But you know... that gives me an insane idea.

I have a small selection of Tyranids at home. I'll almost certainly never try to do a whole Tyranid army. But what if I took those buggers and converted them to have wires and other bits stuck into them, and guys standing around with controls, like the AdMech or some insane Ordo Xenos group took a bunch of Tyranid corpses, attached machinery to them, and started controlling them in battle? Not sure what that'd be, maybe Tyranids/Inquisition, Tyranids/something-standing-in-as-AdMech (IG, SM, CSM, Tau?). But it would be kind of fun to model.

Oh. Oh wait. No. I have it now.

LOOTED Tyranids. Orks picking up the bugs and turning them into Ork weapons of war. Or even riding Tyranids into battle. Like Gretchin mounted on 'Gaunts to ride them into war.

I need to stop before I jump all over this...

This is exactly what I want to do. The sad thing is my FLGS has already stated that they will be doing mostly battle forged tournaments. And here I thought I was finally going to be able to use this guy

Summoned bloodthirster anyone??

Again, I think this is where the theory (unbound can be really fun between 2 non-donkey-caves) rear ends the reality (there are lots of donkey-caves out there).

 Ifurita wrote:
Again, I think this is where the theory (unbound can be really fun between 2 non-donkey-caves) rear ends the reality (there are lots of donkey-caves out there).

Given the person I usually play against, I don''t think I'll have too much trouble if either us use unbound. I'll probably end up drowning in rhino/razorback rush again and again, but then I'll just take some rapetastic melee units like Abaddon and a pair of DP's and yell "COME AT ME BRO!!".

You could make an army that consists entirely of dedicated transports...

Funny, when I read about unbound, I thought "Now I can run repentia in a landraider and take loads of penitent engines". And no point did I think of taking an all flyers list or spamming the same unit. Problem is not the rules, but the attitude of the player.

 tyrannosaurus wrote:
Funny, when I read about unbound, I thought "Now I can run repentia in a landraider and take loads of penitent engines". And no point did I think of taking an all flyers list or spamming the same unit. Problem is not the rules, but the attitude of the player.

Except when some players think that playing a powerful, spam oriented unbound army within the realms of the fluff is a fun and reasonable thing to do. Claiming that players playing a certain way is wrong is absolutely a poor attitude to have and exactly why the problem lies with the rules.

Taking an all flyer list is as reasonable and fluffy as most armies. Your idea of fun and what constitutes a good list to play is not universal.

The problem is not the players. It is undoubtedly the rules, as if they were written properly with balance in mind, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 Blacksails wrote:


Except when some players think that playing a powerful, spam oriented unbound army within the realms of the fluff is a fun and reasonable thing to do. Claiming that players playing a certain way is wrong is absolutely a poor attitude to have and exactly why the problem lies with the rules.

Taking an all flyer list is as reasonable and fluffy as most armies. Your idea of fun and what constitutes a good list to play is not universal.

The problem is not the players. It is undoubtedly the rules, as if they were written properly with balance in mind, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Except that most of those people in this thread who came up with silly lists implied that they were unreasonable and an attempt at an auto-win, for example the 30 Lone Wolves or multiple Grot Cannons. I don't know anyone who would consider either of those lists to be either fluffy or fun. The people I play against [including myself] all put self-imposed limitations on their armies by avoiding the most obviously overpowered combinations while at the same time managing to keep their lists competitive. This approach may not be universal but I'm convinced it is by far the majority view. All of the doom and gloom is just internet hysteria.

 tyrannosaurus wrote:


Except that most of those people in this thread who came up with silly lists implied that they were unreasonable and an attempt at an auto-win, for example the 30 Lone Wolves or multiple Grot Cannons. I don't know anyone who would consider either of those lists to be either fluffy or fun. The people I play against [including myself] all put self-imposed limitations on their armies by avoiding the most obviously overpowered combinations while at the same time managing to keep their lists competitive. This approach may not be universal but I'm convinced it is by far the majority view. All of the doom and gloom is just internet hysteria.

Its great that the people you play with are reasonable and level-headed, but that doesn't mean Unbound as a rule is good or not broken. The doom and gloom and hysteria is hyperbole, but ignoring it shows that people are concerned for valid reasons. Throwing out the FoC and making everything score isn't good game design and steps in the opposite direction of balance. This puts the onus on the players to self-regulate, which becomes increasingly difficult in larger groups or in pick up scenarios.

Therefore, as my point was, the issue is with the rules. If the rules were sensible and reasonable, there wouldn't be issues involving people creating broken lists; there just be lists. Neither of us can claim on view is the majority over the other, but what I can assure you of is the increasing divide between player philosophies as the rules degenerate into a mess of army building and poor balance.

So while I'm happy you have a group that all plays with the same general philosophy, there are many that don't. That is the issue a lot of people have with things like Unbound, the increasing availability of D weapons, and the continued rules bloat.