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6th edition rules near enough killed combat armies. I love 6th, don't get me wrong. But I am a combat fan, and I used to adore choppy orks and Khorne. I thought those days were dead, until I read the rumours for 7th edition. Now, these have excited me greatly. And I want to build a combat army. I thought I'd try an army that I have never ever used before. So to that end, I am completely new to nids. I'll explain my thought process. The two Tyrants are my rapid beatsticks. They're there for getting up in the enemies face as fast as possible and really upset people. The crone is there to fill a similar sort of role as well as being my AA. I am curios as to whether I have sunk too many points in to them though. Next is my ground element. 2 big dirty battering rams. I know their adrenal glands dont give them furios charge as the claws make them strength 10, but it will give them fleet for their inevitable charge and they should be able to deal with anything armoured that turns up easily - both from range and up close. Next is my troops choices. Now I know 30 guants as troops is nothing. BUT if the 7th ed rumours are true then it means that adhering to an old fashioned FOC allows everything else to be scoring, so scoring isn't a problem. It also means they wont always be targeted first as it's no longer a case of killing troops choices and then sitting back. They have toxin sacks because I do think it will be funny for them to tear down a riptide or wraithknight with 45 poisoned attacks on the charge....I have picked them over termies for speed. As taking objectives could be just as important as holding them. Lastly is my Zoanthropes. Here for some cheeky blast action for some troop control, but mainly there to keep the carnys and guants in synapse range. A point to note - my warlord has the node crown.I intend to take the primarus power too, that will mean his synapse is 24", the other tyrant will probably also take it making him 18" So I should have pretty good cover. Also, all MC's have regen. I have ploughed so many points in to them I thought I had better given them the best chance of staying alive!

Anyway, Here's my list. All criticism and suggestions welcome. I have bought NONE of the models yet....

1500 Pts - Codex: Tyranids Roster

Total Roster Cost: 1500

HQ: Hive Tyrant (1#, 340 pts, Warlord)
1 Hive Tyrant + Indescribable Horror + Adrenal Glands + Regeneration + Wings + The Reaper of Obliterax + The Norn Crown

HQ: Hive Tyrant (1#, 275 pts)
1 Hive Tyrant + Lash Whip & Bonesword x1 + Indescribable Horror + Adrenal Glands + Regeneration + Wings

Elite: Zoanthrope (1#, 50 pts)
1 Zoanthrope

Elite: Zoanthrope (1#, 50 pts)
1 Zoanthrope

Troops: Hormagaunt Brood (15#, 120 pts)
15 Hormagaunt Brood + Toxin Sacs

Troops: Hormagaunt Brood (15#, 120 pts)
15 Hormagaunt Brood + Toxin Sacs

Fast Attack: Hive Crone (1#, 185 pts)
1 Hive Crone + Regeneration

Heavy Support: Carnifex (1#, 180 pts)
1 Carnifex + Crushing Claws + Adrenal Glands + Regeneration

Heavy Support: Carnifex (1#, 180 pts)
1 Carnifex + Crushing Claws + Adrenal Glands + Regeneration

Your synapse isn't survivable enough a smart opponent will target your hive tyrants and kill them before you can use your regen then you have 2 squishy zoans as your only synapse. I'd take regen off everything an intelligent opponent will kill whatever it is in one round of shooting and laugh as you wasted your points. Your points would be better spent on a bastion with a venomthrope inside

I don't understand why I would put a venemthrope in a bastion?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also dont full understand how my synapse is that bad? How can I make it much better? Maybe a trygon prime?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Something like this?

1500 Pts - Codex: Tyranids Roster

Total Roster Cost: 1500

HQ: Hive Tyrant (1#, 310 pts, Warlord)
1 Hive Tyrant + Indescribable Horror + Adrenal Glands + Wings + The Reaper of Obliterax + The Norn Crown

HQ: Hive Tyrant (1#, 245 pts)
1 Hive Tyrant + Lash Whip & Bonesword x1 + Indescribable Horror + Adrenal Glands + Wings

Elite: Zoanthrope (1#, 50 pts)
1 Zoanthrope

Elite: Zoanthrope (1#, 50 pts)
1 Zoanthrope

Troops: Hormagaunt Brood (10#, 80 pts)
10 Hormagaunt Brood + Toxin Sacs

Troops: Hormagaunt Brood (10#, 80 pts)
10 Hormagaunt Brood + Toxin Sacs

Fast Attack: Hive Crone (1#, 155 pts)
1 Hive Crone

Heavy Support: Carnifex (1#, 150 pts)
1 Carnifex + Crushing Claws + Adrenal Glands

Heavy Support: Carnifex (1#, 150 pts)
1 Carnifex + Crushing Claws + Adrenal Glands

Heavy Support: Trygon Prime (1#, 230 pts)
1 Trygon Prime

When I play tyrannids, I never use carnifex's, they are killed to easily, i would instead get trygon primes or tyrannofexes as they have better guns and harder to kill, I like hormagaunts, but I would recomend some Genestealers to jump out of trygons holes, or infiltrating as you need to get in combat fast, I am not used to so low points though so you might prefer what you have, I have never needed a hive crone (never gone againts flyers) but I don't see how they are that good anti air.
Also, regeneration is good, keep it, either you will regenerate some wounds, or they will focus all fire on it allowing your other units to get into combat.

You don't see how strength eight vector strikes and haywire missiles that can be fired with 360 degree vision wont smoke a flyer?

I would recommend a hive crone or two if you go against an IG parking lot, Cron-air, etc. I would also recommend tl devourers on your flying hive tyrants. TMCs are good enough in close combat without upgrades and you generally want as much strength six shooting as you can find in 6th edition. Venomthrope's shrouding buff is measured from the walls of the bastion which gives the venomthrope a better chance of staying alive and doing its job longer.

But haywire are one shot only and you only get a few, vector strikes don't effect a flyer, tyrannids are close combat army you don't want much shooting at a distance, you are destroyed at range, you want to assault the enemy with monstorous creatures and lots of little units with 1 or 2 shooty guys to blow up tanks and to attract the enemy gunfire away from assaulters
Guys with devourers are usefull, lots of shots can overpower 2+ saves

Veggieburgess wrote:
But haywire are one shot only and you only get a few, vector strikes don't effect a flyer, tyrannids are close combat army you don't want much shooting at a distance, you are destroyed at range, you want to assault the enemy with monstorous creatures and lots of little units with 1 or 2 shooty guys to blow up tanks and to attract the enemy gunfire away from assaulters
Guys with devourers are usefull, lots of shots can overpower 2+ saves

At the end of the Movement phase, nominate any one unengaged enemy unit the model has moved over that turn. This unit may even be an enemy Flyer.


Haywire are one-shot only, but you still have 4. With the rerolls, it's almost sure you do 2 glances on a flyer per turn. More if you vector strike it.

Tyranids are more a short range army. They pack good fire power in the 18'' range and then they are good in melee. From what i've heard of experienced players though, there's a few armies that are better then tyranids. (those with ID, EW, 2+ saves, FNP, rerolls, etc) Like you said, devourers are amazing at giving so many shoots even 2+ fails. You'll want those massive shots a lot, then charge before the enemie can do it. (Specialy with walkrant or dakkafexes, that are also good in melee thanks to being MC)

I suppose hive crones would be good against flyers then but my army is designed against terminators from an experience where it saved like 20 times and I was so annoyed I dedicated my army to stop it getting any saves. I know there might be better armies but tyrannids are so much fun.

Yeah, Marines are annoying with their good saves. Massive shooting or doing the charge seems to be the way to beat them.
Crones really shine for flyers and nice to have against vehicules. Against ground infantry, not that great.
Nids are really fun and you can have different playstyles. Especially now with the formations freeing FOC slots.

Yeah, I don't think people should start tyrannids with a list in mind, it's much better to get a flying hive tyrant, some random troops, then have friendly battles, decide what annoys you and develope strategies and use units to counter that and gradually expand your army, it's what I did and I had lots of fun, especially after it reached a certain size

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
I don't understand why I would put a venemthrope in a bastion?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also dont full understand how my synapse is that bad? How can I make it much better? Maybe a trygon prime?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Something like this?

1500 Pts - Codex: Tyranids Roster

Total Roster Cost: 1500

HQ: Hive Tyrant (1#, 310 pts, Warlord)
1 Hive Tyrant + Indescribable Horror + Adrenal Glands + Wings + The Reaper of Obliterax + The Norn Crown

HQ: Hive Tyrant (1#, 245 pts)
1 Hive Tyrant + Lash Whip & Bonesword x1 + Indescribable Horror + Adrenal Glands + Wings

Elite: Zoanthrope (1#, 50 pts)
1 Zoanthrope

Elite: Zoanthrope (1#, 50 pts)
1 Zoanthrope

Troops: Hormagaunt Brood (10#, 80 pts)
10 Hormagaunt Brood + Toxin Sacs

Troops: Hormagaunt Brood (10#, 80 pts)
10 Hormagaunt Brood + Toxin Sacs

Fast Attack: Hive Crone (1#, 155 pts)
1 Hive Crone

Heavy Support: Carnifex (1#, 150 pts)
1 Carnifex + Crushing Claws + Adrenal Glands

Heavy Support: Carnifex (1#, 150 pts)
1 Carnifex + Crushing Claws + Adrenal Glands

Heavy Support: Trygon Prime (1#, 230 pts)
1 Trygon Prime

Remember that allegedly FMC vector strikes will be AP 2 now and only 1 grounding check will be taken after all the shooting is finished. Even if snap-fire now only means -2 to BS, this is overall a buff. The strongest Nid build at the moment is skyblight. If you're unfamiliar with this, it allows gargoyles to effectively be troops that regenerate the whole brood on a 4+ when they die, and they immediately go into ongoing reserves. A HUGE buff, meaning that my competitive 1500 list looks something like this:

Flyrant w/2 TL BL Dev
Flyrant w/2 TL BL Dev

Zoanthrope
Zoanthrope
Venomthrope in bastion

3 Warriors
3 Warriors

10 Gargoyles
10 Gargoyles
10 Gargoyles

Harpy
Harpy
Hive Crone

Not many lists can deal with that many FMC at 1500, and it only gets worse at 1750, where I can add in another Flyrant and also another Hive Crone if I take out the Zoanthropes. I am waiting to see which will be better with the changes to psykers with the new rules.

To answer your question, your synapse is bad because it can be taken out fairly easily. Imagine if your opponent simply fires at synapse creatures early on and they die by turn 4 or so. Your army then starts failing instinctive behavior tests like a boss and are run off the table in short order when they have to also take actual leadership tests. As for why a bastion, it's because a venomthrope is great. But it's so fragile that you want to boost it's survivability. Not that many things can crack open a bastion and kill a venomthrope turn 1, and if it's not dealt with, your FMC should almost without exception be getting a 3+ cover turn 1 and 2+ if night fighting is on. Significantly increases the durability of monsters with no invuln.

To improve your list, I would generally take far fewer upgrades. Though the Nids are not that incredible with their base stats, the benefit is their low cost. Not many armies can deal with the volume of wounds you can soak if you compose a list with the right amount of threats. Run them close to bare or with only weapon upgrades almost without exception. Although you do have to give GW more money, you will have a much better list. Also, the Trygon prime is incredibly expensive for what it does. I would suggest running a Mawloc. If it NEEDS to get into CC, it can, and the price per wound is great. Not to mention the sweet sweet attack from the ground that you typically HOPE for a mishap on as there's a 50 percent chance that it'll just go right back into ongoing reserves and do the same thing next turn . It can be hit or miss but the Trygon is typically miss with no assault grenades and scatter that could take you out of charge range, potentially subjecting you to two turns of abuse before you reach combat.

I see what you're saying about upgrades. But some of them seem too valuable to not take. Take adrenal glands. As I'm attempting to build a combat army then having a very thing with fleet will be very useful. Not to mention the furious charge buffs. But I'll have a look today. I have a feeling the node Crown would be better on the prime.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And how on earth do you make gargoyles troops? I cant find that anywhere in the dex?

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
I see what you're saying about upgrades. But some of them seem too valuable to not take. Take adrenal glands. As I'm attempting to build a combat army then having a very thing with fleet will be very useful. Not to mention the furious charge buffs. But I'll have a look today. I have a feeling the node Crown would be better on the prime.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And how on earth do you make gargoyles troops? I cant find that anywhere in the dex?

The trygon prime is great. As soon as he pops, he have 12 shoots. And the tunnel is awesome if you use Endless Swarm or Skyblight.

The gargoyles as "troops" are from the Skyblight formation.

Endless swarm sounds interesting? Are these formations on data slates or something?

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Endless swarm sounds interesting? Are these formations on data slates or something?

Yep data slate 2 I believe..

Not much to add...you are way overcommited with upgrades. Regen looks real nice, but in play it seldom pays off, ass anything that gets focused on dies without a chance to regen. The Only time I consider it is when its on a durable unit. For me that is a Tyranofex, only at low points. I don't normally run Canifexen, but I have heard that running Regen on one out of a Brood is effective. Because you can rotate it from out front, to back.

Norn Crown is IMHO, overpriced, and the only upgrade I tend to use is Hive Commander (Lets you Outflank one Troop.) This adds pressure on the backfield)

I tend to run Zoanthropes in Broods of x2, this makes them a lot more durable. (and if you Lance/Blast you get one shot per )

So...off the top off my head...

Winged Assassin/Winged Dakka'rant 230
Winged Dakka'rant 230

Zoey Brood: x2 100
Veno Brood: x2 ( or one in a Bastion...cost and style decides )

Termigants Brood: x20 80
Termigant Brood: x20 80
Hormigaunt Brood: x20 100
Hormigaunt Brood: x20 100
Warrior Brood: x3 opinions differ, vanilla is add a Cannon 100. I usually say add two Deathspitter as well for 110...

Heavy Slots: This is where there is a lot of variance..... I think getting a Crone or Two is a very good purchase for Fast Attack, then you can spend whatever is left here, there really are no "bad" choices, just preferences...

Winged Assassin: Winged Tyrant, Lash whip& Bone Sword, Toxin sacks 230 I usually find 10 points for a Thorax Hive (2 Hormigaunts) I personally like Electr-bugs, but the Shredder Beattles are very nice also....

Winded Dakka'rant: Winged Tyrant, TL Brain Leeches, x2 230 that is 12 ST 6 AP- shots at BS 4

Most everyone uses Two Winged Dakka'rants. But I use one Assassin, and one Dakka, and I am very happy with them. If you magetise, you can find your own best build as you go.

Carifexen also benefit most from Double Brain Leeches, as a Carnifex is Heck on roller skates in CC (D3 HOW ) If you like the Scything Talons, I personally like that, with Bioplasma for 140 per...

My Favorite Big Bug is Tyranofex, Adrenals, Thorax Hive 200 per The lower point the game, the more dominating this becomes...it is the Only 2+ Sav in the Codex, I believe...(also T6,W6, ST 6...)

I personally Like Mawloc, but she is a " love her, or hate her" model. Some folks have terrible luck with Mawlocs, me? I have wonderful results.

My second favorite Big Bug is Tyrgon Prime, 230 points, yet I get good value almost every time. Practically the poster model for "durable Synapse". (and has 12 ST5 AP5 shots, and leaves a Tunnel )

Because you have not made purchases yet you have the luxury of making a list, Then spending cash...I reccomend trying 1000 point games, then purchase models that suit your style.

Late entry: To that end, I reccomend 1 "Swarm" box (the most recent I know of...) One Tyrant Box, and a box or Warrior...

pinecone77 wrote:

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Endless swarm sounds interesting? Are these formations on data slates or something?

Yep data slate 2 I believe..

I tend to run Zoanthropes in Broods of x2, this makes them a lot more durable. (and if you Lance/Blast you get one shot per )

It is the Rising Leviathan 2 dataslate. Also, while Zoanthropes run in groups of 2 are maximally durable and points-efficient, I have a HUGE hunch that with the way psychic powers are going to work, we are going to want to run them as Solothropes. Will this be the most beneficial way to do so? Only time will tell, but I certainly want to give them a fair shake

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
I see what you're saying about upgrades. But some of them seem too valuable to not take. Take adrenal glands. As I'm attempting to build a combat army then having a very thing with fleet will be very useful. Not to mention the furious charge buffs. But I'll have a look today. I have a feeling the node Crown would be better on the prime.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And how on earth do you make gargoyles troops? I cant find that anywhere in the dex?

Toxin sacs actually prove to be much more valuable to a close combat army as our troops are rather weak (but make up for it with their numbers). When you allow them to wound on a 4+ or better against crappy units, their combat ability is greatly enhanced against everything that relies on toughness in close combat (which are typically low-model count and high point cost, making for the perfect target for a tarpit unit). Even on the hive tyrant, it rarely benefits that much from fleet (yes I know a single charge can make or break a game, but the points you pay for a rather situational upgrade don't seem worth it to me since the flyrant can pretty much just land 1" away from it's intended charge target).

On a side note, the reaper of obliterax is also not an efficient upgrade, as for the same points you can get marginally more out of basic bio-weapon upgrades, or you can just get all of its stats (or most IIRC) for less. Regen on tyrants is something that I really want to play around with more, but with the current iteration of grounding, it's not worth it. You fall to the ground, take a wound, and then get LIT UP by the rest of the army. When the new edition comes around, allegedly this will change and will make regen MUCH more appealing. Quite worthwhile if you ask me.

The node is incredibly overpriced. Just take the primaris power on our table. If you really want the added range, I would argue that you're probably relying on that synapse creature too much. All an opponent has to do is kill it and half of your board is crippled, which is why people recommended to take more synapse in general.

Overall, I come from the same school of thought as you. Give me Kharn, give me some berserkers, and I'll run straight at you and call it a day after we're done. The problem is that in 6th, it was just such a huge handicap to run a mostly assault army, and that's even more true with Nids, given the removal of Ymgarl Genestealers as well as the mycetic spore. You just have to have more bodies/more durable bodies than they have bullets, while still being able to do some work when you arrive in combat. I think a lot will change to our benefit with 7th edition, as it does seem that our codex was written with many of these rules in mind, and I look forward to seeing how things change. Who knows? Maybe we'll be singing the praises of Lictors in a month or two (unlikely, but a guy can hope ) the point is, whatever people think now is because of years of experience with the old rules and a couple months' experience with the new codex. But don't be afraid to experiment and see what works for you. If you're having fun, that's all that matters. Most of the time, we just try and help create a list that won't lose so much that no one is having fun.

Oh and for the record, the gargoyles technically don't count as troops, they just score like them - the whole "Skyblight" formation is outside of FOC entirely, so you can have like 6 FA choices if you want because Skyblight has 3 that need to be included plus the regular 3 from your FOC. So you'll still need two other troop choices as you list craft. I just mention that because it's not entirely clear on first glance through the data slate.

Just read the data slate, Skyblight does seem awesome. I am curious as to whether they will allow me to use a dataslate at warhammer world events. I'm going to have a play. I'm swaying towards a predominantly foot based Nidzilla list with a single flyrant and a Crone. Especially since there is potenntially less chance of them being grounded in 7th

Man, if you thought Norn Crown was overpriced before, when 7th hits and the new Psycher rules kick in, sheesh. "Take all your powers frmo the same list, get the primaris tossed in as a freebie."

Tyranid can only use the one psychic list.

Which means that each and every single psychic you have will come with Dominion. +6" Synapse on all of my psychers for free? Yes please!

Wakshaani wrote:
Man, if you thought Norn Crown was overpriced before, when 7th hits and the new Psycher rules kick in, sheesh. "Take all your powers frmo the same list, get the primaris tossed in as a freebie."

Tyranid can only use the one psychic list.

Which means that each and every single psychic you have will come with Dominion. +6" Synapse on all of my psychers for free? Yes please!

Wow, this could be epic...

Well you'll still have to draw from your total warp charge pool to cast it, but every psyker will have the option to do so, yes. So that is a lot more tactical flexibility for sure

I pretty much agree with everything luke1750 has said the only thing I'd add is that Flyrants should have toxin. Monstrous Creatures are everywhere and toxin gives you a huge edge against most.

Carnifexes are OK but need to be used in units of ideally 3 but at least 2 to be effective. Twin linked devourers are the best weapon on them just like the Hive Tyrant.

Trygon Primes are horrid. Mawlocs and Tfexes are best Heavy Support though Carnifex broods and Biovores are also good.

However if you start with the Skyslasher Swarm you can't go too far wrong. Particularly using it as the base of an unbound army. Something like this:

Hive Tyrant: wings, 2 x Devourers, toxin 240
Hive Tyrant: wings, 2 x Devourers, toxin 240
Hive Tyrant: wings, 2 x Devourers, toxin 240

10 Gargoyles 60
10 Gargoyles 60
10 Gargoyles 60

Hive Crone 155
Hive Crone 155
Harpy: venom cannon 140
Harpy: venom cannon 140

That leaves 10 points for a thorax swarm or something. 7 FMCs should cause most people a headache at 1500, sky slasher basically gets around the downside of being unbound. Going to 1750 add another Flyrant

Though with the ability to one shot a vehicle gone from the HVC it may no longer be the got to option on the Harpy (hands up who wishes they could take devourers).

 FlingitNow wrote:
I pretty much agree with everything luke1750 has said the only thing I'd add is that Flyrants should have toxin. Monstrous Creatures are everywhere and toxin gives you a huge edge against most.

Carnifexes are OK but need to be used in units of ideally 3 but at least 2 to be effective. Twin linked devourers are the best weapon on them just like the Hive Tyrant.

Trygon Primes are horrid. Mawlocs and Tfexes are best Heavy Support though Carnifex broods and Biovores are also good.

However if you start with the Skyslasher Swarm you can't go too far wrong. Particularly using it as the base of an unbound army. Something like this:

Hive Tyrant: wings, 2 x Devourers, toxin 240
Hive Tyrant: wings, 2 x Devourers, toxin 240
Hive Tyrant: wings, 2 x Devourers, toxin 240

10 Gargoyles 60
10 Gargoyles 60
10 Gargoyles 60

Hive Crone 155
Hive Crone 155
Harpy: venom cannon 140
Harpy: venom cannon 140

That leaves 10 points for a thorax swarm or something. 7 FMCs should cause most people a headache at 1500, sky slasher basically gets around the downside of being unbound. Going to 1750 add another Flyrant

Though with the ability to one shot a vehicle gone from the HVC it may no longer be the got to option on the Harpy (hands up who wishes they could take devourers).

This is effectively how I built my army. To make it not-unbound, I simply have 2 units of warriors. At 1750 I can have everything above plus the 6 warriors, a venomthrope and a bastion. Not the fluffiest list, but extremely effective. I do go light on the upgrades to fit everything in, but at 1850 you can have all the frills you want. I'm also in the middle of converting my bastion to have a giant hole in it with a tyranid monstrosity hidden in the darkness. Should look pretty sweet when I finish.

You've got more synapse and the Venomthrope in bastion which is a little meta dependant with so much ignores cover around I tend to not bother with the Venomthrope with 3-4 Flyrants and Harpy+Hive Crone being Ld10 synapse is not hugely necessary. But yeah your list is very strong I feel mine takes even more advantage of 7th Ed 5 FMCs is good 7 is even better.

 FlingitNow wrote:
I pretty much agree with everything luke1750 has said the only thing I'd add is that Flyrants should have toxin. Monstrous Creatures are everywhere and toxin gives you a huge edge against most.

Carnifexes are OK but need to be used in units of ideally 3 but at least 2 to be effective. Twin linked devourers are the best weapon on them just like the Hive Tyrant.

Trygon Primes are horrid. Mawlocs and Tfexes are best Heavy Support though Carnifex broods and Biovores are also good.

However if you start with the Skyslasher Swarm you can't go too far wrong. Particularly using it as the base of an unbound army. Something like this:

Hive Tyrant: wings, 2 x Devourers, toxin 240
Hive Tyrant: wings, 2 x Devourers, toxin 240
Hive Tyrant: wings, 2 x Devourers, toxin 240

10 Gargoyles 60
10 Gargoyles 60
10 Gargoyles 60

Hive Crone 155
Hive Crone 155
Harpy: venom cannon 140
Harpy: venom cannon 140

That leaves 10 points for a thorax swarm or something. 7 FMCs should cause most people a headache at 1500, sky slasher basically gets around the downside of being unbound. Going to 1750 add another Flyrant

Though with the ability to one shot a vehicle gone from the HVC it may no longer be the got to option on the Harpy (hands up who wishes they could take devourers).

Does not look bad... The only thing I'd do differant, is if I plan to toss 10 extra points on each Tyrant, I want Electro-bugs...why? Imperial Knights.

I'm curious, now, about Tyranid interaction with the 7th ed psychic phase. The -3 LD to psychers within 12" would get more important ... if things were based on LD checks. It seems that they will instead be rolling X dice, with a 4+ needed on each to notch a success, meaning that the LD penalty won't actually do anything to disrupt psychic powers.

You'd *think* that there'd be some kind of errata in the pipe, but I'm not sure.

Wakshaani wrote:
I'm curious, now, about Tyranid interaction with the 7th ed psychic phase. The -3 LD to psychers within 12" would get more important ... if things were based on LD checks. It seems that they will instead be rolling X dice, with a 4+ needed on each to notch a success, meaning that the LD penalty won't actually do anything to disrupt psychic powers.

You'd *think* that there'd be some kind of errata in the pipe, but I'm not sure.

This interests me massively as well. With a little bit of modifying shadow in the warp could become game changing....

Back on topic. Every list seems to sway towards FMC's. Is this the only way to play miss competitively? What about foot MC's? Can they work? A tervigon, the swarm lord, a mawloc, a trygon prime or 2 with some poisoned gaunts and steelers. A crone in their for anti air....

FMCs are spammable power, so obviously lists go that way, and they might be even better in 7th... we don't have the rules yet to know. Depends on how shooting at them works. We know that you're only grounded if you take a wound, and even then only on a 3+, and even THEN only once per turn, so you're flying the entire time until you're not.

Which is an enormous buff.

Now, if they change Snap Fire to BS-2 instead of "You hit on a 6", then they take a hit as Marines can hit on a 5 instead of a 6, which is a considerable change.

As it stands, I'm not a fan of the FMC swarm, simply because tossing your Warlord out there to die is giving away *so* *many* *points* (First Blood and Warlord) that it seems like a foolish thing to do. I, personally, prefer a Hive Tyrant with a couple of Hive Guard. More expensive, slower, and less powerful, which is three strikes against him, but with an effective 8 wounds, he's just hard enough to stomp around and get the job done, especially with a 3+ cover save from the Venomthropes.

7th brings us new close combat rules, possibly consolidation into combat, possibly weaker overwatch, and certainly removes "Wound Overflow" sponges that issue challenges to MC and save their unit. CLose Combat migt be back, and if it is, well, it might be Tyranid Season.

Do we know the grounding test is still a 3+? But yes FMCs are very strong right now. If you want to spam ground based MCs you'd probably do a carnifex star (or 2) Tyrannofexes warriors for troops and a Venomthrope in bastion.

Tyranid Prime: toxin, fleshooks, rending claws, adrenal 160

3 Warriors: strangler 100
3 Warriors: strangler 100
Stealers: Broodlord 130

Venomthrope 45

3 Carnifex: 6 Devourers, 3 Adrenal glands 495
Tyrannofex: Adrenal 190
Tyrannofex: Adrenal 190

Bastion 75

That still leaves 15 points to play with. You need massed Adrenal in this type of list for fleet. Or you could go 1 dimensional and pray for no Knights like this:


Tyranid Prime: flesh hooks, rending, Adrenal 150

3 Warriors 90
3 Warriors 90
3 Warriors 90

3 Carnifexes: Adrenal 405
3 Carnifexes: Adrenal 405
2 Carnifexes: Adrenal 270

This first list has just 5 MCs compare to 7 FMCs and weaker but more expensive troops. The troop issue remains with the 2nd list but at least we have 8 MCs but they are only Carnifexes and it has no ranged power, no AA and no way to fight Knights. It is a massive rock paper scissors list. Which is why people go with FMC spam as you are much better suited to dealing with anything.

I think if you're going to embrace the 7th edition rules, you need to forget about the Force Org and maximize the use of Formations.

The Living Tide is an ideal formation except that it's minimum 3180 pts just to field the base models. So it's not being used outside of apocolypse games.

In 1500 or 2000 pt games I think the strongest Tyranid list will be combinations of Bioblast and Wrecker Nodes

At 2000 pts you can easily field 5 shooty carnifexes, 3 shooty warriors, 1 Tyrannofex and 6 CC carnifexes, with CC warriors or any combination.

You can also have nothing but a table full of flying Hive Tyrants, or a table of swarm lords.

Still only 1 swarmlord. Even in unbound Unique still works.