Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Wakshaani wrote:
I'm curious, now, about Tyranid interaction with the 7th ed psychic phase. The -3 LD to psychers within 12" would get more important ... if things were based on LD checks. It seems that they will instead be rolling X dice, with a 4+ needed on each to notch a success, meaning that the LD penalty won't actually do anything to disrupt psychic powers.

You'd *think* that there'd be some kind of errata in the pipe, but I'm not sure.

If I had to guess, (and I am) I'd expect the roll to be modified, maybe +2 to target roll? (6's always succeed?) So that 4+ goes to 5+, or 6+...? That way a "specialist (one disapline) could get a positive mod, so they succeed on 2+, or 3+ without the Shadow...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:

Wakshaani wrote:
I'm curious, now, about Tyranid interaction with the 7th ed psychic phase. The -3 LD to psychers within 12" would get more important ... if things were based on LD checks. It seems that they will instead be rolling X dice, with a 4+ needed on each to notch a success, meaning that the LD penalty won't actually do anything to disrupt psychic powers.

You'd *think* that there'd be some kind of errata in the pipe, but I'm not sure.

This interests me massively as well. With a little bit of modifying shadow in the warp could become game changing....

Back on topic. Every list seems to sway towards FMC's. Is this the only way to play miss competitively? What about foot MC's? Can they work? A tervigon, the swarm lord, a mawloc, a trygon prime or 2 with some poisoned gaunts and steelers. A crone in their for anti air....

Sure, but the main method of victory for Nids is massive multiprong pressure. And that means getting into the enemies backfield pronto. Walkers tend to be too slow. You can use things like Outflank to help though. I've posted several versions of an "Endless Tunnel Assault" concept list, that uses the interaction between "Endless" special rule(s), and Tunnel assault. But Big Flyers are the simplest solution available.

But what if you don't want to go the flier route along with every other comp player? Can they be competitive with an allround list?

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
But what if you don't want to go the flier route along with every other comp player? Can they be competitive with an allround list?

Sure, but even a "all rounder" will have a fair bit of "winged death" in it.....even if it is "only" two winged tyrants.

There is a reason competitive players take certain things. Unfortunately the Nid codex is pretty weak which massively cuts down on your latitude to take other options and still have a chance.

Understandable,

So could something like this work?

1500 Pts - Codex: Tyranids Roster

Total Roster Cost: 1500

HQ: Hive Tyrant (1#, 230 pts)
1 Hive Tyrant + TL Devourer w/Brainleech Worms x2 + Wings

Elite: Lictor Brood (1#, 50 pts)
1 Lictor Brood

Elite: Lictor Brood (1#, 50 pts)
1 Lictor Brood

Troops: Genestealer Brood (5#, 85 pts)
5 Genestealer Brood + Toxin Sacs

Troops: Genestealer Brood (5#, 85 pts)
5 Genestealer Brood + Toxin Sacs

Fast Attack: Hive Crone (1#, 155 pts)
1 Hive Crone

Formation: Subterranean Swarm (13#, 845 pts)
1 Subterranean Swarm
1 Trygon Prime
1 Trygon
1 Mawloc
3 Ravener Brood + Rending Claws x1
3 Ravener Brood + Rending Claws x1
3 Ravener Brood + Rending Claws x1

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Understandable,

So could something like this work?

1500 Pts - Codex: Tyranids Roster

Total Roster Cost: 1500

HQ: Hive Tyrant (1#, 230 pts)
1 Hive Tyrant + TL Devourer w/Brainleech Worms x2 + Wings

Elite: Lictor Brood (1#, 50 pts)
1 Lictor Brood

Elite: Lictor Brood (1#, 50 pts)
1 Lictor Brood

Troops: Genestealer Brood (5#, 85 pts)
5 Genestealer Brood + Toxin Sacs

Troops: Genestealer Brood (5#, 85 pts)
5 Genestealer Brood + Toxin Sacs

Fast Attack: Hive Crone (1#, 155 pts)
1 Hive Crone

Formation: Subterranean Swarm (13#, 845 pts)
1 Subterranean Swarm
1 Trygon Prime
1 Trygon
1 Mawloc
3 Ravener Brood + Rending Claws x1
3 Ravener Brood + Rending Claws x1
3 Ravener Brood + Rending Claws x1

Sure, but you have like two(?) Synapse? Once that is gone, your chance of victory become almost nil... I'd look at finding points to put in Warriors, again, just for Synapse. Lictors can be a fun addition, but Solo Lictors are kinda easy to kill off, wasting points.....At 1500 more than 1/2 your points are in the Formation. That does not leave much to fill out with.

The nice thing is that Stealers don't need Synapse, so you can run two prongs. 1) Winged Dakka'rant+ Mawloc, Tyrgon. 2) Big Wormey, 3 Broods of Ravagers. The Stealers are stuck with camping duties...But the Formation runs off one die roll, so it all comes in at once. That is very powerfull, but the rest has to survive till that happens.

I don't think I'd try this particular one at 1500...1650? Maybe

Ok. The lack of synapse is something I completely didn't think about. Did say I was new to this nid thing....... Here's my next idea playing around with formations. I've takes some inspiration from the subterrainian assault. The idea being keeping the prime and the mawloc in reserve, as the trygon comes up he will form a tunnel. that means that any guants in ongoing reserve can arrive from his tunnel...........Let me know what you think. This might be my favourite yet....

1500 Pts - Codex: Tyranids Roster

Total Roster Cost: 1500

HQ: Hive Tyrant (1#, 240 pts, Warlord)
1 Hive Tyrant + TL Devourer w/Brainleech Worms x2 + Wings + Indescribable Horror

HQ: Hive Tyrant (1#, 230 pts)
1 Hive Tyrant + TL Devourer w/Brainleech Worms x2 + Wings

Formation: Endless Swarm (64#, 475 pts)
1 Endless Swarm
10 Hormagaunt Brood + Toxin Sacs
10 Hormagaunt Brood + Toxin Sacs
10 Hormagaunt Brood
10 Termagant Brood
10 Termagant Brood
10 Termagant Brood
3 Tyranid Warrior Brood + Deathspitter x3

Troops: Tyranid Warrior Brood (3#, 105 pts)
3 Tyranid Warrior Brood + Deathspitter x3

Troops: Tyranid Warrior Brood (3#, 105 pts)
3 Tyranid Warrior Brood + Deathspitter x3

Heavy Support: Trygon Prime (1#, 245 pts)
1 Trygon Prime + Adrenal Glands

Heavy Support: Mawloc (1#, 140 pts)
1 Mawloc

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Ok. The lack of synapse is something I completely didn't think about. Did say I was new to this nid thing....... Here's my next idea playing around with formations. I've takes some inspiration from the subterrainian assault. The idea being keeping the prime and the mawloc in reserve, as the trygon comes up he will form a tunnel. that means that any guants in ongoing reserve can arrive from his tunnel...........Let me know what you think. This might be my favourite yet....

1500 Pts - Codex: Tyranids Roster

Total Roster Cost: 1500

HQ: Hive Tyrant (1#, 240 pts, Warlord)
1 Hive Tyrant + TL Devourer w/Brainleech Worms x2 + Wings + Indescribable Horror

HQ: Hive Tyrant (1#, 230 pts)
1 Hive Tyrant + TL Devourer w/Brainleech Worms x2 + Wings

Formation: Endless Swarm (64#, 475 pts)
1 Endless Swarm
10 Hormagaunt Brood + Toxin Sacs
10 Hormagaunt Brood + Toxin Sacs
10 Hormagaunt Brood
10 Termagant Brood
10 Termagant Brood
10 Termagant Brood
3 Tyranid Warrior Brood + Deathspitter x3

Troops: Tyranid Warrior Brood (3#, 105 pts)
3 Tyranid Warrior Brood + Deathspitter x3

Troops: Tyranid Warrior Brood (3#, 105 pts)
3 Tyranid Warrior Brood + Deathspitter x3

Heavy Support: Trygon Prime (1#, 245 pts)
1 Trygon Prime + Adrenal Glands

Heavy Support: Mawloc (1#, 140 pts)
1 Mawloc

I'd reccomend Cannons, that way the campers can do stuff while sitting. Check out my Enhanced Endless Tunnel Assault list(s) you'll likely get some good ideas.

I like this type of list myself, as "supprise" helps a lot in tourneys (soon everyone will know how to beat Skyblight )

If you have the figures a Comm array would help with reserve rolls.

Cannons on what mate? The idea is that everything will scuttle forward so the 18" range. Cannons are expensive, how would you fit them in. I'd like a comms relay for reserves, but dont know where to find the points from. I'm a massive fan of poisoned guants as they can smash riptides and the like. Or at least keep them busy. But 30 poisoned attacks on the charge isn't in the slightest bit soft!

Do you have some links to your lists?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Going to make a slight change, part of planning for the possibility that some gaunts may not re spawn....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
1500 Pts - Codex: Tyranids Roster

Total Roster Cost: 1500

HQ: Hive Tyrant (1#, 240 pts, Warlord)
1 Hive Tyrant + TL Devourer w/Brainleech Worms x2 + Wings + Indescribable Horror

HQ: Tervigon (1#, 200 pts)
1 Tervigon + Cluster Spines

Formation: Endless Swarm (64#, 505 pts)
1 Endless Swarm
10 Hormagaunt Brood + Toxin Sacs
10 Hormagaunt Brood + Toxin Sacs
10 Hormagaunt Brood + Toxin Sacs
10 Termagant Brood
10 Termagant Brood
10 Termagant Brood
3 Tyranid Warrior Brood + Deathspitter x3

Troops: Tyranid Warrior Brood (3#, 105 pts)
3 Tyranid Warrior Brood + Deathspitter x3

Troops: Tyranid Warrior Brood (3#, 105 pts)
3 Tyranid Warrior Brood + Deathspitter x3

Heavy Support: Trygon Prime (1#, 245 pts)
1 Trygon Prime + Adrenal Glands

Heavy Support: Mawloc (1#, 140 pts)
1 Mawloc

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Cannons on what mate? The idea is that everything will scuttle forward so the 18" range. Cannons are expensive, how would you fit them in. I'd like a comms relay for reserves, but dont know where to find the points from. I'm a massive fan of poisoned guants as they can smash riptides and the like. Or at least keep them busy. But 30 poisoned attacks on the charge isn't in the slightest bit soft!

Do you have some links to your lists?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Going to make a slight change, part of planning for the possibility that some gaunts may not re spawn....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
1500 Pts - Codex: Tyranids Roster

Total Roster Cost: 1500

HQ: Hive Tyrant (1#, 240 pts, Warlord)
1 Hive Tyrant + TL Devourer w/Brainleech Worms x2 + Wings + Indescribable Horror

HQ: Tervigon (1#, 200 pts)
1 Tervigon + Cluster Spines

Formation: Endless Swarm (64#, 505 pts)
1 Endless Swarm
10 Hormagaunt Brood + Toxin Sacs
10 Hormagaunt Brood + Toxin Sacs
10 Hormagaunt Brood + Toxin Sacs
10 Termagant Brood
10 Termagant Brood
10 Termagant Brood
3 Tyranid Warrior Brood + Deathspitter x3

Troops: Tyranid Warrior Brood (3#, 105 pts)
3 Tyranid Warrior Brood + Deathspitter x3

Troops: Tyranid Warrior Brood (3#, 105 pts)
3 Tyranid Warrior Brood + Deathspitter x3

Heavy Support: Trygon Prime (1#, 245 pts)
1 Trygon Prime + Adrenal Glands

Heavy Support: Mawloc (1#, 140 pts)
1 Mawloc

This is very similar to what I've been running lately with decent success. However, instead of a Mawloc I usually run a couple Zoanthropes for extra sources of Synapse and psychic support. I've ended several games with Zoanthropes being the only surviving synapse while my endless swarm held objectives, winning the game, so I feel extra synapse is extremely important. Any extra points can be put towards some devourers on the Termagants. I agree that the warriors don't need cannons in this kind of list because in practice they're going to be moving with the swarm in order to keep your gaunts within synapse range while they're charging... so deathspitters will get their use in. I usually run 1850 so I have spare points to give all my termagants devourers and all the warriors rending claws to allow them the ability to take on almost anything in melee.

With 7th edition psychic changes, the utility of Zoanthropes may change so I'd hold off judgement until we see what happens.

I can see why. I'm hoping 3 squads of warriors, the flyrant, the tervigon and the prime will be enough? It's 6 synapse units and 12 models.

I completely understand what you say about the Mawloc, but I love it. Love the model, love the idea, adore the way the maw looks.....I'm afraid he might have to stay.

Is a flyrant kitted like that good enough AA?

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
I can see why. I'm hoping 3 squads of warriors, the flyrant, the tervigon and the prime will be enough? It's 6 synapse units and 12 models.

I completely understand what you say about the Mawloc, but I love it. Love the model, love the idea, adore the way the maw looks.....I'm afraid he might have to stay.

Is a flyrant kitted like that good enough AA?

No. Aircraft are my bane and the HT dies instantly against a list that has Aircraft (because they know what threat he poses). In those situations, the warriors throw up the highest killcount against air (another reason I don't use cannons). The best thing to do against them is to fill the board with little guys so their movement is limited. Bubblewrap your synapse and force them to make bad shots because they can't line up a perfect shot. Air units are typically expensive so all you can do is make those points wasted by not giving them good targets while you hold all the objectives.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Cannons on what mate? The idea is that everything will scuttle forward so the 18" range. Cannons are expensive, how would you fit them in. I'd like a comms relay for reserves, but dont know where to find the points from. I'm a massive fan of poisoned guants as they can smash riptides and the like. Or at least keep them busy. But 30 poisoned attacks on the charge isn't in the slightest bit soft!

Do you have some links to your lists?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Going to make a slight change, part of planning for the possibility that some gaunts may not re spawn....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
1500 Pts - Codex: Tyranids Roster

Total Roster Cost: 1500

HQ: Hive Tyrant (1#, 240 pts, Warlord)
1 Hive Tyrant + TL Devourer w/Brainleech Worms x2 + Wings + Indescribable Horror

HQ: Tervigon (1#, 200 pts)
1 Tervigon + Cluster Spines

Formation: Endless Swarm (64#, 505 pts)
1 Endless Swarm
10 Hormagaunt Brood + Toxin Sacs
10 Hormagaunt Brood + Toxin Sacs
10 Hormagaunt Brood + Toxin Sacs
10 Termagant Brood
10 Termagant Brood
10 Termagant Brood
3 Tyranid Warrior Brood + Deathspitter x3

Troops: Tyranid Warrior Brood (3#, 105 pts)
3 Tyranid Warrior Brood + Deathspitter x3

Troops: Tyranid Warrior Brood (3#, 105 pts)
3 Tyranid Warrior Brood + Deathspitter x3

Heavy Support: Trygon Prime (1#, 245 pts)
1 Trygon Prime + Adrenal Glands

Heavy Support: Mawloc (1#, 140 pts)
1 Mawloc

Well a Cannon costs 10, and a Deathspitter costs 5, so you need 5 per Brood. Idescibable Horror? Cluster Spines? Adrenal on Big Wormey? It looks like points are available, it just depends on prioritys. At least one Brood is likely to stay in the backfield (unless that is Tervigons job?) Warrior Broods really Need cover, so they tend to be "iffy" for maneuver.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I usually scetch out a Endless list like so, (then modify it to suit)

Winged Tyrant 230
Winged Tyrant 230

Warrior Brood: x3, x2 Deathspitters, Cannon 110
Warrior Brood: as above 110

Trygon 190
Trygon 190

Total ~ 1060?

Endless Swarn (Formation) (440 or so)
Warrior Brood: as above 110
Hormigaunt Brood x 10, x3 150
Termigant Brood: x 15, x3 180

That should run 1500. you can swap out one of the Trygons, but there is little room for change, at such a low point total...
2 FMC, 2 Mcs, 9 Troops.... 5 Synapse, 8 units that need it. A "fair" to "good" list. Whats weak? Anti-air is Flyrants, "OK", but not optimal, and no Venothropes It is real tempting to drop a FMC, or MC and buy some Zoeys, and a Veno or two. The second weakness is the Hormies, they are so weak that all they can really do is screen other units If you "solo" the Zoey, and the Veno, you have a 100 points to upgrade.

If you drop Wormey, you can buy exactly x2 of each "Thrope"...kismet!

With 100 points you can turn the Termigants into x10+ 5 Devils, for 240 total, and have 40 points to upgrade (or just purchase more...) Hormies. (or upgrade all the Hormies to Toxic, and have 10 left...)

Ok, so your list is very similar to what I've written. I have a tervigon over a second flyrant so that if my endless swarm has some bad rolls I can still spew more troops out. And I have a trogon prime and Mawloc over two trygons. I love the idea of the Mawloc. I do wish I could open up two tunnels though. I contemplated ditching the tervigon for a second prime.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Perhaps I could ditch the tervigon for a normal trygon. That could be too many points in reserve though.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Ok, so your list is very similar to what I've written. I have a tervigon over a second flyrant so that if my endless swarm has some bad rolls I can still spew more troops out. And I have a trogon prime and Mawloc over two trygons. I love the idea of the Mawloc. I do wish I could open up two tunnels though. I contemplated ditching the tervigon for a second prime.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Perhaps I could ditch the tervigon for a normal trygon. That could be too many points in reserve though.

Yeah, it starts coming down to "style". Personally, I would avoid the Terv. so I don't need to keep track of who can re-spawn (Endless), and who Can't (Terv spawned) At the very least I'd find an easy way to track them. If I put Devilgaunts in the Endless swarms, I can keep an eye without effort. (you could also run Spinegaunts in Endless, and the Terv. produces "vanilla" Termigants...)

The reason I like Two tunnels, is placement is critical, and with two Wormeys, I have the option to divert one to attack a target of opertunity. While the second, can place the tunnel where it needs to be.

Running one Wormey, and one Mawloc sounds like it will work just fine. You just give up a second Tunnel, but you're playing at 1500, so how much will you have reserved anyhow?

It's not about how much is reserved, it's about ideal locations for the endless stuff that goes into ongoing reserve. As I understand it, they will be able to enter play from the tunnel too. Which makes me think a normal trygon is a better buy than a tervigon...

The question is, do I take a standard trygon or do I remove things like toxins off of a squad of giants for a prime?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I can always start one prime on the board and have the second in reserve with the Mawloc. As one arrives the ore can burrow.... Constant tunnel making...

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
It's not about how much is reserved, it's about ideal locations for the endless stuff that goes into ongoing reserve. As I understand it, they will be able to enter play from the tunnel too. Which makes me think a normal trygon is a better buy than a tervigon...

The question is, do I take a standard trygon or do I remove things like toxins off of a squad of giants for a prime?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I can always start one prime on the board and have the second in reserve with the Mawloc. As one arrives the ore can burrow.... Constant tunnel making...

I'm not sure...but I think you only get one tunnel per Wormey. And only if you Deepstrike in... I really like using two Primes (Big Wormey) along side Hive Commander. That way I can Deepstrike durable Synapse in to support the outflanking Big Brood (x30 Spinegaunts) But at 1500 points are very hard to come by.

In general I always advocate that more figures trumps upgrades. But I currently think that Endless might be an exeption. Because the unit comes back with the same build, it is easier to justify upgrades.

Worth mentioning that zooming flyers can't contest objectives, that sounds big especially in maelstrom missions. I hope FMC nids is a force in 7th but time will tell.

I would also avoid the Tervigon. When you have a list like this, you need to think about what is going to be dealing the damage in your list. You have the two Flyrants, the Mawloc, and the Trygon prime. Taking out a flyrant seriously cuts down on your power. Though the warriors should be able to do a decent amount of work, something your list is unable to deal with effectively is a deathstar (or any close combat specialists for that matter). I mean, you can keep tar pitting them with your endless swarm units pretty effectively, but that's essentially your only option.

The important things to consider when building a TAC list are how you handle the following factors:

(this is taken from a great article on Frontline Gaming, though it was written for the previous codex the principles still apply)

How do I deal with hordes of infantry?
How do I deal with heavy infantry/Monstrous Creatures?
How do I deal with mech spam?
How do I deal with AV14?
How do I deal with death stars?
How do I deal with fliers?
How do I reliably take and hold at least one more objective than my opponent?

Your list has some very good answers to the objective game, hordes of infantry, and arguably flyers. If you can get the drop on the enemy flyer, flyrants will do some pretty quick work dispatching of them. The trick is that they have to stay alive long enough to do so, and they will be the number one priority target for just about any opponent. You can handle mech spam decently well with your MCs that can open them up like a can. Dealing with heavy infantry can work with targeted coordination of your MC. The death star is tricky because it will probably wreck your MC (even with coordination) so you have to either ignore it or re-shape your list a little. The way that I would do that is get rid of the Trygon prime. You can downgrade it to a Mawloc, keeping 90% of the functionality for 60% of the cost. With what you save, you could bring in a unit of 2 Zoanthropes, or 2 Lictors. Both would do some good things for your army.

But downgrading to a mawloc doesn't keep the functionality. The idea is simple. The trigon prime will start on the board. I can take a second trigon in place of the tervigon. The normal tervigon starts in reserve. Turn two the trigon should arrive, same turn the prime can borrow into reserve. Turn 3 the prime can arrive creating another tunnel. The trigon can burrow. And rinse, repeat. That way when the endless swarm units go into ongoing reserve, they don't have to start on my own table edge, they can emerge from tunnels placing them rapidly where they will be effective.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
But downgrading to a mawloc doesn't keep the functionality. The idea is simple. The trigon prime will start on the board. I can take a second trigon in place of the tervigon. The normal tervigon starts in reserve. Turn two the trigon should arrive, same turn the prime can borrow into reserve. Turn 3 the prime can arrive creating another tunnel. The trigon can burrow. And rinse, repeat. That way when the endless swarm units go into ongoing reserve, they don't have to start on my own table edge, they can emerge from tunnels placing them rapidly where they will be effective.

I think you are mistaken. A Trygon can never BURROW. The only unit with that ability is the Mawloc. The reason you have Trygons start in reserves in to deep strike them into play and achieve your tunnel to take the endless swarm into position.

roxor08 wrote:

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
But downgrading to a mawloc doesn't keep the functionality. The idea is simple. The trigon prime will start on the board. I can take a second trigon in place of the tervigon. The normal tervigon starts in reserve. Turn two the trigon should arrive, same turn the prime can borrow into reserve. Turn 3 the prime can arrive creating another tunnel. The trigon can burrow. And rinse, repeat. That way when the endless swarm units go into ongoing reserve, they don't have to start on my own table edge, they can emerge from tunnels placing them rapidly where they will be effective.

I think you are mistaken. A Trygon can never BURROW. The only unit with that ability is the Mawloc. The reason you have Trygons start in reserves in to deep strike them into play and achieve your tunnel to take the endless swarm into position.

I agree, as I posted above...I guess I did not make it clear...

I think I confused the abilities of the mawloc and the trygon....

So I want to take a prime and a mawloc. But what's best after that then? A second trygon and have a lot of points in reserve? A mawloc and use the points for some zoeys or something like an exocrine or heruspex? (I know the spelling of those were terrible?) OR a second flyrant?

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
I think I confused the abilities of the mawloc and the trygon....

So I want to take a prime and a mawloc. But what's best after that then? A second trygon and have a lot of points in reserve? A mawloc and use the points for some zoeys or something like an exocrine or heruspex? (I know the spelling of those were terrible?) OR a second flyrant?

Well simply put, if you considering a second Flyrant Vs. any other unit in the codex....general rule of thumb is Flyrant Trumps everything.

The Flryant's usefulness is simply better than any other unit in the dex....in terms of mobility, offensive power, distraction value, I could go on and on. Best unit in the codex.

I was tempted by a second mawloc and some zoeys. But I think you're right. I'll get juggling.

roxor08 wrote:

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
I think I confused the abilities of the mawloc and the trygon....

So I want to take a prime and a mawloc. But what's best after that then? A second trygon and have a lot of points in reserve? A mawloc and use the points for some zoeys or something like an exocrine or heruspex? (I know the spelling of those were terrible?) OR a second flyrant?

Well simply put, if you considering a second Flyrant Vs. any other unit in the codex....general rule of thumb is Flyrant Trumps everything.

The Flryant's usefulness is simply better than any other unit in the dex....in terms of mobility, offensive power, distraction value, I could go on and on. Best unit in the codex.

Word, and with an Endless Tunnel Assault build, it keeps the enemies eyes on your FMC, so the Wormey, and Mawloc can do their thing. I tend to use Fly'rant more carefully, more like a fireman, than an attack creature. I use a Winged Assassin for my "second" Fly'rant, and most often I join a Tarpit. And finish off whatever got trapped. Between that and a Winged Dakka'rant, the swarms can move around, and get work done.

Winged assassin? Is that your bonesword build?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Something like this perhaps?

1500 Pts - Codex: Tyranids Roster

Total Roster Cost: 1500

HQ: Hive Tyrant (1#, 230 pts, Warlord)
1 Hive Tyrant + TL Devourer w/Brainleech Worms x2 + Wings

HQ: Hive Tyrant (1#, 225 pts)
1 Hive Tyrant, + Boneswords + Wings + Electroshock Grubs

Formation: Endless Swarm (64#, 465 pts)
1 Endless Swarm
10 Hormagaunt Brood + Toxin Sacs
10 Hormagaunt Brood + Toxin Sacs
10 Hormagaunt Brood + Toxin Sacs
10 Termagant Brood
10 Termagant Brood
10 Termagant Brood
3 Tyranid Warrior Brood + Deathspitter x3

Troops: Tyranid Warrior Brood (3#, 105 pts)
3 Tyranid Warrior Brood + Deathspitter x3

Troops: Tyranid Warrior Brood (3#, 105 pts)
3 Tyranid Warrior Brood + Deathspitter x3

Heavy Support: Mawloc (1#, 140 pts)
1 Mawloc

Heavy Support: Trygon Prime (1#, 230 pts)
1 Trygon Prime

So is this latest list accepted as being relatively competitive?

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
So is this latest list accepted as being relatively competitive?

Sure, it looks a lot better, I usually pop Toxin onto the assassin, because it synergizes so well. (Toxin most often gives re-rolls, so you have more chances for an "insta-kill" )

I built mine like so: Tyrant, Winged, Lash whip/Bone sword, Toxic 230 Then I scape up points to buy a Hive. In High point games, I also grab Brain Leeches, so base 230, as played 240, budget busting 255. I modeled the Devourers to shoot by pointing his elbows, I got the idea from watching Ghost in the shell... This was my first Tyrant, and I did not magnetize... But I've had plenty of good results using him. The Lash whip is definitly "optional", but the Toxin sacks are a big boost in effectivness.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Winged assassin? Is that your bonesword build?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Something like this perhaps?

1500 Pts - Codex: Tyranids Roster

Total Roster Cost: 1500

HQ: Hive Tyrant (1#, 230 pts, Warlord)
1 Hive Tyrant + TL Devourer w/Brainleech Worms x2 + Wings

HQ: Hive Tyrant (1#, 225 pts)
1 Hive Tyrant, + Boneswords + Wings + Electroshock Grubs

Formation: Endless Swarm (64#, 465 pts)
1 Endless Swarm
10 Hormagaunt Brood + Toxin Sacs
10 Hormagaunt Brood + Toxin Sacs
10 Hormagaunt Brood + Toxin Sacs
10 Termagant Brood
10 Termagant Brood
10 Termagant Brood
3 Tyranid Warrior Brood + Deathspitter x3

Troops: Tyranid Warrior Brood (3#, 105 pts)
3 Tyranid Warrior Brood + Deathspitter x3

Troops: Tyranid Warrior Brood (3#, 105 pts)
3 Tyranid Warrior Brood + Deathspitter x3

Heavy Support: Mawloc (1#, 140 pts)
1 Mawloc

Heavy Support: Trygon Prime (1#, 230 pts)
1 Trygon Prime

In terms of rendition, I think you'll fare very well with this list. Otoh I think that a winged assassin load out NEED toxin sacs. Without them, you aren't reliably winning assaults against Riptides, Wraithknights, and the like.

I think that deathspitters are wasted on warriors. They're great weapons, but for free, devourers are basically the same thing. Warriors are really more of a synapse anchor than anything else.

I'd like to suggest a few minor changes: Drop all of the Deathspitters and do one of two things: add a Venomthrope for 45 points and change the electroshock grubs to toxin sacs OR switch the "assassin" tyrant to a dakka Flyrant, add toxin sacs to the Trygon Prime and maybe the miasma cannon if you have the points...