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Dreadclaw and Nkelsch can have my exalts today.

You can either be friends or not, there is no zone in which you have to fester in.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
My friend once said this about "the friend zone" "Women are not machines where you put favors in and see comes out" and I agree, no dating advice here

Are you sure you have a friend that said that? You just rephrased what the guy above you posted.

 Corpsesarefun wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
My friend once said this about "the friend zone" "Women are not machines where you put favors in and see comes out" and I agree, no dating advice here

Are you sure you have a friend that said that? You just rephrased what the guy above you posted.

It is actually a common phrase I have heard a lot. It is in response to 'nice guys' claiming that they are treating women how they should be treated and they respond back with: "What? Like a vending machine?" tries to put into perspective who is really objectifying women, those who treat them with enough to respect to be honest and actually make an advance with romantic intent, or those who just try to hang on and feel entitled to sex/relationship because they 'did their time'.

nkelsch wrote:

 Corpsesarefun wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
My friend once said this about "the friend zone" "Women are not machines where you put favors in and see comes out" and I agree, no dating advice here

Are you sure you have a friend that said that? You just rephrased what the guy above you posted.

It is actually a common phrase I have heard a lot. It is in response to 'nice guys' claiming that they are treating women how they should be treated and they respond back with: "What? Like a vending machine?" tries to put into perspective who is really objectifying women, those who treat them with enough to respect to be honest and actually make an advance with romantic intent, or those who just try to hang on and feel entitled to sex/relationship because they 'did their time'.

I guess it is a common phrase huh.

Wow. What a Douchebag. No wonder girls never wanted anything to do with him.

Girls really aren't into the whole "Bond Villian Wannabee" thing.

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
Girls really aren't into the whole "Bond Villian Wannabee" thing.

That's exactly the vibe I got from his video, it was cleared scripted and rehearsed to make him sound like some kind of super villain.

LOL what a pussy. Girls need to be approached 85% of the time, they don't just come up to you unless you're very attractive. He had no balls, yet he blames everyone else for his lack of initiative with chicas.

edit - I've read a lot more into this, and it looks like this guy had major mental problems his entire life. I suppose it wasn't just about lack of girls, he had some serious problems 'upstairs'. Mental issues + guns + rejection + bullying = killing spree.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

nkelsch wrote:

 Corpsesarefun wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
My friend once said this about "the friend zone" "Women are not machines where you put favors in and see comes out" and I agree, no dating advice here

Are you sure you have a friend that said that? You just rephrased what the guy above you posted.

It is actually a common phrase I have heard a lot. It is in response to 'nice guys' claiming that they are treating women how they should be treated and they respond back with: "What? Like a vending machine?" tries to put into perspective who is really objectifying women, those who treat them with enough to respect to be honest and actually make an advance with romantic intent, or those who just try to hang on and feel entitled to sex/relationship because they 'did their time'.

I guess it is a common phrase huh.

Common enough that I had this already set up to go.



The mental malfunction of 'nice guys' and people who buy into the existence of 'the friend zone' is that they've never had the depth of self-awareness to ask themselves, 'if I had a friend who I had no sexual interest in, who kept on being a good friend, would there ever be a point where I'd suddenly go, ding! time to sex them up!'

Some of the most pathetic 'nice guy' complaining I've comes across, they didn't even tell the girl they were 'zoned' by that they were interested in her! They were almost literally doing the whole kindness-coin thing, expecting to either have the vending machine suddenly pay off, or that there would be the Hollywood-esque, 'he has always been there for me, now I realize he is my one true love!' You'd think realizing that other people are not mind readers, and that this isn't a game you unlock new levels to by building up your score would not be a hard idea to wrap your head around, and yet so many are unable to do it.

I'm seeing a lot of talk about misogyny being "to blame". Is it at least worth pointing out he killed at a ratio of 2/1 men to women?

No question he had a bone to pick with women and planned to target them, but evidently not exclusively...

I'm seeing a lot of "this isn't about mental illness, this is about misogyny and rape culture" in editorials about the shooting and my only thought is this is about a lot of stuff, including but not limited to mental illness.

I'm a bit disturbed by self described feminists trying to define this series of brutal violence solely through an ideological lens.

I'm married so my dating advice is outdated.
I'm married so I cannot have female friends to avoid a certain "perception"

I'll be honest. I've been in a tiny little town outside Fort Worth over the weekend, cut off from civilization (Sonic was there though). Come back and I hear this. I take Team Wienie for a walk and start thinking

*Mmm this is the land of the .001% of the 1%. A few get shot. Go 30 miles southwest people get shot daily, but its a nonstory. Why is that?

Now the usuals will come up for banning guns but not banning knives, cars, or better mental health. Meh.

I like how one network was saying "functional aspergers' The wife started cussing at that. Paranoid narcissist is what the guy was. The diagnosis is crap. Asberger's is not an issue because they don't even acknowledge the ostracism.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ahtman wrote:
I didn't watch the video (because feth that guy) but I get the impression he is one of those people who thinks there is a formula for human interaction i.e. "I acted in this way why aren't the ladies falling over themselves to be with me?" Instead of realizing the problem was within he blames everyone else for not conforming to his ideas of how things should be.

In the video he sounds like a pschotic extremely spoiled brat. Turns out he was.

 Crablezworth wrote:
I'm a bit disturbed by self described feminists trying to define this series of brutal violence solely though an ideological lens.

Definitely. Feminists seem to have been pushing rape culture into the forefront whenever possible the last few years. I mean it's admirable in a lot of ways I suppose, but in this case it's certainly just a case of ideological blindness. The guy was clearly ed up in the head, especially if he has social norms about gender so out of whack.

If he's just one lone nut, why are so many guys agreeing with him online?

 Frazzled wrote:
I'll be honest. I've been in a tiny little town outside Fort Worth over the weekend, cut off from civilization (Sonic was there though). Come back and I hear this. I take Team Wienie for a walk and start thinking

*Mmm this is the land of the .001% of the 1%. A few get shot. Go 30 miles southwest people get shot daily, but its a nonstory. Why is that?
.

Why? Because the victims are white, likely affluent, and young. the perfect mixture for a story.

This is all eerily familiar. I remember a character called 'Nesshelper' who had furious arguments and rants all across Game FAQs and other sites (he was infamous enough to get his own encyclopedia dramatica page). He also had Aspergers and was forever going off like this.

Here are some comments from his live journal which are both funny and disturbing:

Nesshelper wrote:people who make that claim just to boost their arguments against me. I have been backstabbed *SEVERAL* times by members of the opposite sex, and "nice" ones at that. Yes, quote marks around "nice" to show that they're devils in plain sight, not perfect little angels like people claim they are. They're freaking liars. They have sex with assheads and then they accuse me of stalking them, or worse. **WHAT**? ...you have *GOT* to be kidding me.

Then again, most women are just so stupid. Why the hell are they dating chauvinists in the first place? Oh, that's right: because they're apparently mature. No, they're even less mature than any of those relatives of mine. Who are even less mature than me.
...
BUT NO! APPARENTLY, THE WOMEN CLAIM I AM IMMATURITY INCARNATE WHILE THE CHAUVINISTS ARE MATURITY CENTRAL! WHAT THE feth? I MEAN, HOW THE HECK? I JUST.......I SERIOUSLY DON'T GET THAT fethed UP LOGIC! ...oh yeah. That's right: because women are so biased. Somehow, nothing I do is ever good enough for them. yet the crappy chauvinistic creeps can sweep them off their feet 6 times before breakfast, without breaking a sweat. Wha..gah......guh? If they're going for looks, they have a stupid way of showing it. EITHER WAY, I DON'T GET WHAT THOSE GIRLS SEE IN THE CHAUVINISTIC CREEPS!

I also love how most girls are bitches who are uncaring gakkers who even pull the phone book logic out of their asses.

Source

There are a whole bunch of rants like this, basically around the same theme (women don't accept me therefor they are all bitches). It's very reminiscent of the video.

 Da Boss wrote:
If he's just one lone nut, why are so many guys agreeing with him online?

Because the internet is a gathering place for all the lone nuts out there to voice their stupid opinions.

You don't think the same logic applies to the feminists who take things too far in your view then?

It's valid for both sides. Some idiots agree with him and go "LOL BLAME ZE WOMEN" and some idiots disagree with him and go "OHEMGEE MEN SUCK". #yestoallwomen to call the culprit out.

Both are gross over-generalisations and certainly not appropriate.

 Da Boss wrote:
You don't think the same logic applies to the feminists who take things too far in your view then?

I haven't see anyone 'taking it too far'. There is a real problem of too many men feeling entitled to women's bodies... both from 'nice guy tokens' and others in the 'date rape' culture. Basically there are guys who believe that if they give stuff/drinks/kindness/attention to a female, they owe him sex and he has 'a right' to her body.

Men have no idea what they go through. We don't have people grabbing our asses and genitals in crowded bars or public transport. We don't have a society that labels us 'bitchy' or 'out of place' when we stand up for ourselves or defend ourselves in an argument.

The real issue is there are *LOTS* of people who believe what this guy believed... and many of them act on it to lesser degrees every day. Stalking, sabotaging, 'social payback', vandalism, assault, and so on from guys who feel the woman has wronged them and they feel entitled to her and her body.

If anything, I hope more women realize when these terrible 'nice guy' men are latched on to them and stand up for themselves and clarify relationships and protect themselves from potentially dangerous guys.

I had a talk with one of may gal pals about this. We both wanted to make sure neither of us was 'on the hook' for each other and not expecting anything and clear on our friendship. She did feel she has another friend (who I call Beartrap, because he always asks her out on ambiguous non-dates and tries to trap her into a date like a bear trap) and he doesn't get the hint. After this event, she called him and was straight forward and made clear he knew what their relationship was. He was upset and lashed out. They are no longer friends. He felt entitled to her and thought if he kept putting tokens in, eventually she would be his. He is probably not dangerous, but his attitude can become dangerous if left to fester long enough.

nkelsch: I agree with you, which is why I said "In your view"

The difference is "I'm a nice guy and women don't have sex with me! Those bitches just say they want nice guys when they really want jerks!" is depressingly common, whereas feminists who hate men are vanishingly rare to the point of almost being entirely fictional.

 HiveFleetPlastic wrote:
The difference is "I'm a nice guy and women don't have sex with me! Those bitches just say they want nice guys when they really want jerks!" is depressingly common, whereas feminists who hate men are vanishingly rare to the point of almost being entirely fictional.

You aren't looking very hard then. It may have died down to be a little more subtle, but sexism against men is still horrifically common(as in the kind that believes men need to get torn down to uplift women's status)

nkelsch wrote:

I had a talk with one of may gal pals about this. We both wanted to make sure neither of us was 'on the hook' for each other and not expecting anything and clear on our friendship. She did feel she has another friend (who I call Beartrap, because he always asks her out on ambiguous non-dates and tries to trap her into a date like a bear trap) and he doesn't get the hint. After this event, she called him and was straight forward and made clear he knew what their relationship was. He was upset and lashed out. They are no longer friends. He felt entitled to her and thought if he kept putting tokens in, eventually she would be his. He is probably not dangerous, but his attitude can become dangerous if left to fester long enough.

Quoted, because, well, it deserves to be read again.

 HiveFleetPlastic wrote:
The difference is "I'm a nice guy and women don't have sex with me! Those bitches just say they want nice guys when they really want jerks!" is depressingly common, whereas feminists who hate men are vanishingly rare to the point of almost being entirely fictional.

You might want to pay closer attention to mass media

Why does the video make things different? You'd have to suffer from large amounts of mental illness to think that killing anyone is justified. The motive at that point is part of the symptom, not the actual cause.

Nothing else makes sense.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 HiveFleetPlastic wrote:
The difference is "I'm a nice guy and women don't have sex with me! Those bitches just say they want nice guys when they really want jerks!" is depressingly common, whereas feminists who hate men are vanishingly rare to the point of almost being entirely fictional.

You aren't looking very hard then. It may have died down to be a little more subtle, but sexism against men is still horrifically common(as in the kind that believes men need to get torn down to uplift women's status)

No, I'm not looking very hard. I look even less hard for "nice guy" stuff, but that doesn't stop it from coming up, even though I'm mildly engaged in the feminist community.

 Compel wrote:

nkelsch wrote:

I had a talk with one of may gal pals about this. We both wanted to make sure neither of us was 'on the hook' for each other and not expecting anything and clear on our friendship. She did feel she has another friend (who I call Beartrap, because he always asks her out on ambiguous non-dates and tries to trap her into a date like a bear trap) and he doesn't get the hint. After this event, she called him and was straight forward and made clear he knew what their relationship was. He was upset and lashed out. They are no longer friends. He felt entitled to her and thought if he kept putting tokens in, eventually she would be his. He is probably not dangerous, but his attitude can become dangerous if left to fester long enough.

Quoted, because, well, it deserves to be read again.

Yes, it does, and part of the reason it's not nice at all is guys don't come with labels showing how they'll take perceived rejection. Is that guy making threats going to act on them? You don't know.

Sex and/or relationships are really on an undeserved pedestal, in my view. Sex isn't the be all and end all unless you don't know how to masturbate (which is unfortunately true of a lot of girls and women, especially when shamed into not experimenting). You can love who you want. Waaaay too much emphasis on finding this one perfect person and then living happily ever after and it makes an awful lot of people miserable.

Better to, like, open up your heart, you know. Love your fellow human beings. Appreciate everyone. Even this murderous guy. He probably wasn't so different to most people, at least to begin with, and maybe if we can promote a healthier way of life it'll help people not turn down his path.

 HiveFleetPlastic wrote:
The difference is "I'm a nice guy and women don't have sex with me! Those bitches just say they want nice guys when they really want jerks!" is depressingly common, whereas feminists who hate men are vanishingly rare to the point of almost being entirely fictional.

The former is something I've seen depressingly often. I know a female friend who dated a guy who pressured her into a threesome she really didn't want to happen. She'll probably be in that relationship until he leaves her. There was a woman I called the cops for who's boyfriend was abusive and bite her on the face because she was out too late. I was up until about 3 am dealing with that with the cops. She never actually followed through with pressing charges and went to the cops. A girl I dated told me once that women would probably cheat on their boyfriends/husbands with a coworker if they were hassled enough by that person to do so. My sister is not allowed to see the rest of her family more than a couple days out of the year by her boyfriend who we think is abusive, but don't have proof. I'm lucky to get a half drunk email once a month, usually at 3 am, with vague details about how everything sucks but lacking specifics.

It appears to be a trend, at least, in the anecdotes I've been given. I think people are just broken and flawed in a broken and flawed world where such things are allowed to continue, but I'm not sure how to make things better.

 HiveFleetPlastic wrote:
The difference is "I'm a nice guy and women don't have sex with me! Those bitches just say they want nice guys when they really want jerks!" is depressingly common, whereas feminists who hate men are vanishingly rare to the point of almost being entirely fictional.

Seriously? Do a web search for the phrase "male tears." It's one of their catchphrases, which they use to dismiss any discussion of issues like male suicide or facts like men are twice as likely as women to be victims of violence, and nearly as likely to be victims of sexual violence. These same feminists proudly call themselves misandrist, claiming it's "satirical."

Furthermore, a lot of feminist theory is based on what are essentially misandrist principles. It's based on the idea that male sexuality is fundamentally aggressive and damaging of women, and that men are essentially incapable of love, only domination and power over women. It sees all male action through a lens of domination and oppression, while completely dismissing women's complicity in the creation of femininity, which makes all men suspect and all fears justified. Basically the fundamental assumptions of feminism only make sense to people who fundamentally dislike men.

I read about this like an hour after it happened and I knew this horse would be run into the ground so hard that it would get re-shoed in China, and here we are on Dakka now.

I've read his "manifesto", which is hilarious in some ways, especially all those stories about him splashing people with drinks (the part where he says "I was so enraged I nearly splashed him with my orange juice" had me in stitches considering the context) and after reading about him some more the conclusion is pretty clear.

The guy was autistic. He was even diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome prior to this incident, and even if you think the "autism" diagnoses are taken too far in this country like I do, he clearly suffered from an inability to empathize with other people and this haunted him his entire life. He had money and decent looks, but the thing he lacked was a personality resembling anything like a normal person and the ability to empathize with other people.

So I think that wraps it up, the guy had brain problems and flipped out via mass murder. There are no other layers to the discussion, this situation isn't a reflection or indictment of society, the guy simply had a malfunction in the chemistry of his brain that caused him such grief that said grief turned to anger and he lashed out blindly at what he thought was the cause.

I also don't think this is a reason to for additional scrutiny of autistic people. Most of them don't act like this, it was a freak occurrence, nothing more.

nkelsch wrote:
I had a talk with one of may gal pals about this. We both wanted to make sure neither of us was 'on the hook' for each other and not expecting anything and clear on our friendship. She did feel she has another friend (who I call Beartrap, because he always asks her out on ambiguous non-dates and tries to trap her into a date like a bear trap) and he doesn't get the hint. After this event, she called him and was straight forward and made clear he knew what their relationship was. He was upset and lashed out. They are no longer friends. He felt entitled to her and thought if he kept putting tokens in, eventually she would be his. He is probably not dangerous, but his attitude can become dangerous if left to fester long enough.

Wait. So this gal pal of yours has another male friend, and she called him up out of the blue to make it clear to him that he was only a friend to her and that he had no chance with her?

And he got upset? He got angry?

How exactly was he supposed to feel? He's sitting there, minding his own business, and one of his friends calls him up out of the blue to make it clear she rejects him, and...seriously, how is he supposed to feel other than upset and hurt? That was really mean (and arrogant!) thing to do!

What the hell is wrong with people?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ZultanQ wrote:
The guy was autistic...I also don't think this is a reason to for additional scrutiny of autistic people. Most of them don't act like this, it was a freak occurrence, nothing more.

Bingo.