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This only works if the majority toughness rule from 6th still applies to 7th. Can someone confirm?
Also on a side note does fleet USR pass onto ICs if they join a fleet unit in 7th?

So it consists of:
Mephiston (T6)
Iron hands Chapter Master with bike, artificier armour, shield eternal and thunderhammer (T5)
Corbulo (T4)
And Ordo xenos inquisitor with liber heresius, plasma syphon, power armour (and maybe rad granades but these may be ott) (T3)

This is 3 characters joining a unit consisting of 1 model (Mephiston)
It gives 14 T6 wounds.
With corbulo's reroll Mephiston has a 68.75% chance of rolling Iron arm. With iron arm in play this gives 14 T9 wounds. Still very tough without though and I will explain why.
Corbulo as we all know is the games ultimate small arms tank with a 3+/2+++ and 2 wounds, this will be taken to insane levels at T6 or heven forbid T9. He also give mephy 5+ fnp and both himself and mephy furious charge.
If Iron arm or Endurance is not cast, any ID shots can be LOS to the chapter master with EW and a 2+/3++, fnp, IWND. Even better - the chap master can be out front and LOS 5/6 of the non st8+ shots to corbulo to take the risk off corbs failing his LOS.
The chapter master can also break off from the unit at any point to charge something else on his bike, greatly increasing the units threat range. (As can mephy if fleet doesnt pass on).
The Inquisitor allows the unit to scout somewhat solving the mobility issue (if Mephy can pass on fleet this is even better). He has a plasma syphon to stop any mass rapid firing plasma from chipping wounds off the unit. He also adds 3 T6/9 3+ wounds to the unit if these are needed. He can also take rad granades to decrease opponents toughness if you feel these are needed.

On the charge without Iron arm:
Opponent at -1T, 6 to 9 (with warp speed), S7, ap3, I7 (10), attacks from Mephy, 5 S6, I5, rending attacks from corbs, and 5 S8, ap2, I1 attacks from the chapter master. Plus any attacks from the inquisitor if you decide to deck him out further.
With iron arm Mephy will be striking at S10.

This unit comes to 663pts (+15pts if taking rad granades). If you thought the old Swarmstar (SwarmLord, Prime + tyrant guard) was tough wait till you encounter this. Plus some of the mobility issues the swarmstar encountered are somewhat addressed in this deathstar.

Edit:
Also forgot to mention the benefits of endurance and/or life leech extending the durability of the star if mephy rolls these.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
And don't forget transfixing gaze - I ALWAYS do.

Only problem is mobility after scout, its a very slow unit

I hope no one in my flgs is on this site and reading this, I really don't wanna face something like that

That's true. It was the main problem with the swarmstar too but that still worked. It can litrally just march down the board absorbing the opponents firepower, potentially replenishing any lost wounds with leech life and IWND. The chap master can leave when needed with his bike movement and mephy has fleet so can do the same. After the scout + turn 1 movement and run (if fleet wont confer) your talking of being an average of 8.5" from your opponents deployment zone which isn't too bad... but you're right - mobility is its main weakness.

The irony that makes me smile is that the inquisitor adds 3 T6 (or T9) wounds if mephy gets iron arm, yet can be ID'd by S6 weaponary. That's what the chapter master is there for after all I suppose.

Sorry, but where are you seeing how Mephiston, who is not an IC, making a unit?

He is not an IC. He is the 1 model unit that the 3 ICs are joining.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have been assured that in 7th ICs may join single model units.

Poly Ranger wrote:
He is not an IC. He is the 1 model unit that the 3 ICs are joining.

Sorry, but I don't buy that. Regardless of how it is worded, Mephiston is still part of a unit, which he cannot be because he is not an IC. Please show me some rules citation that says it works that way. Hell, the 7th ed rulebook uses Mephiston as an example of characters who do not run around in units.

Poly Ranger wrote:

I have been assured that in 7th ICs may join single model units.

Citation needed.

Pg. 166 says otherwise ... only units containing a MC or vehicles can not be joined. It is legit.

I do not have the 7th ed rulebook yet. However if you look through the forums it is quite clear that people have explained that ICs are no longer restricted from joining single model units. Mephiston is a single model unit.

However, Mephiston, not being an Idependent Character, cannot join a unit. Therefore, that cancels that out.

An IC can join a unit, however, Mephiston still cannot join a group.

pg. 100 for my reference under Independent Characters.

 OIIIIIIO wrote:
Pg. 166 says otherwise ... only units containing a MC or vehicles can not be joined. It is legit.

Thank you. I cannot provide any of this as I do not own it yet.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 curran12 wrote:
However, Mephiston, not being an Idependent Character, cannot join a unit. Therefore, that cancels that out.

An IC can join a unit, however, Mephiston still cannot join a group.

He is not joining a unit -he IS a unit. They are joining him.

 curran12 wrote:
However, Mephiston, not being an Idependent Character, cannot join a unit. Therefore, that cancels that out.

An IC can join a unit, however, Mephiston still cannot join a group.

pg. 100 for my reference under Independent Characters.

Pg 100 tells you to reference pg 166.

its legal, and you could even join the old UM chaplain with T6 to the unit with no penalty in unbound.

Eihnlazer wrote:
its legal, and you could even join the old UM chaplain with T6 to the unit with no penalty in unbound.

Excellent idea. Zealot could really help out too!

 OIIIIIIO wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
However, Mephiston, not being an Idependent Character, cannot join a unit. Therefore, that cancels that out.

An IC can join a unit, however, Mephiston still cannot join a group.

pg. 100 for my reference under Independent Characters.

Pg 100 tells you to reference pg 166.

Let me lay out the logic here for me.

It is not about the ICs in the unit. That part is fine and they can totally join one-model units.

However, the problem lies with Mephiston. He is a character, but not independent. Therefore, he cannot join units. Saying "oh but these ICs are joining him" is not adequate, as joining works both ways, Meph is also joining a unit, which he cannot do because he is not an IC.

You are not understanding. Meph is not joining anything. He is having several other independent characters join him. Last edition they specifically said you could not join 1 model units, now in this edition there is no such restriction.

 curran12 wrote:

 OIIIIIIO wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
However, Mephiston, not being an Idependent Character, cannot join a unit. Therefore, that cancels that out.

An IC can join a unit, however, Mephiston still cannot join a group.

pg. 100 for my reference under Independent Characters.

Pg 100 tells you to reference pg 166.

Let me lay out the logic here for me.

It is not about the ICs in the unit. That part is fine and they can totally join one-model units.

However, the problem lies with Mephiston. He is a character, but not independent. Therefore, he cannot join units. Saying "oh but these ICs are joining him" is not adequate, as joining works both ways, Meph is also joining a unit, which he cannot do because he is not an IC.

I don't have the book so just need one question answered. If a SM captain joins a unit for example does the book anywhere state that the unit is also classed as joining the IC? Or is it just worded that the IC joins the unit?

That is just it ... it does not have to work both ways. The 6th edition made it very clear that only characters with the IC status are eligible to join or be joined to other IC or units. Mephiston is a unit in and of himself. The other IC can join him without any issue.

That said, I can understand your logic but it is flawed. An IC can join any unit you please with the restrictions that said unit not contain any MC or vehicles. Mephiston may have the stats of a MC but he does not have the rules of one, nor is he considered a vehicle. He can be joined by any IC. He is not joining the IC, the IC is joining him, just as a unit is joined by an IC not the IC being joined by a unit.

 curran12 wrote:

Let me lay out the logic here for me.

It is not about the ICs in the unit. That part is fine and they can totally join one-model units.

However, the problem lies with Mephiston. He is a character, but not independent. Therefore, he cannot join units. Saying "oh but these ICs are joining him" is not adequate, as joining works both ways, Meph is also joining a unit, which he cannot do because he is not an IC.

Entirely false. Joining does not go both ways. Rules state Independent Characters can join units, rules do not state that units can join independent characters. Thus by your logic, a Captain cannot join a tac squad because a tac squad cannot join a Captain.

 OIIIIIIO wrote:
That is just it ... it does not have to work both ways. The 6th edition made it very clear that only characters with the IC status are eligible to join or be joined to other IC or units. Mephiston is a unit in and of himself. The other IC can join him without any issue.

That said, I can understand your logic but it is flawed. An IC can join any unit you please with the restrictions that said unit not contain any MC or vehicles. Mephiston may have the stats of a MC but he does not have the rules of one, nor is he considered a vehicle. He can be joined by any IC. He is not joining the IC, the IC is joining him, just as a unit is joined by an IC not the IC being joined by a unit.

Brilliant. That is how I'd had it explained to me by my mate with the book and how id read it on here. Cheers for the confirmation!

the 2nd.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 obsidiankatana wrote:

 curran12 wrote:

Let me lay out the logic here for me.

It is not about the ICs in the unit. That part is fine and they can totally join one-model units.

However, the problem lies with Mephiston. He is a character, but not independent. Therefore, he cannot join units. Saying "oh but these ICs are joining him" is not adequate, as joining works both ways, Meph is also joining a unit, which he cannot do because he is not an IC.

Entirely false. Joining does not go both ways. Rules state Independent Characters can join units, rules do not state that units can join independent characters. Thus by your logic, a Captain cannot join a tac squad because a tac squad cannot join a Captain.

This. Oh, oh, this. Your entire argument just went "flush"

 Glorywarrior wrote:
the 2nd.

So mephy is not counted as joining the ICs, but they are counted as joining him. Cheers!




I think with what everyone is saying, this is a totally legitimate tactic.

It's valid. I am not convinced it's very good, but if it works for you and you have fun then great!

I'm convinced it's good...

If it's in a stormraven. Skies of blood it right as it comes in, and survive one turn before assaulting.

 Brotherjanus wrote:
It's valid. I am not convinced it's very good, but if it works for you and you have fun then great!

What bound SM death star can you create for less than 700pts with as insane durability and damage output :-p?

Do they allow bikes in a Raven? I have never thought about putting a bike in a transport as it's silly, but are they just bulky infantry or are they unit type bike?

As for a deathstar, I personally don't like playing them. I have to in fantasy because that's just how the game works but in 40k I like to stick with things I think make sense. Now if I wanted to make a silly theme where Meph started a rock band and those are his bandmates then I might try it out. Now that I think of it, Meph has the hair for an 80's metal band.....

I am doing this. Without the inquisitor, because of lack of the model, but I'm doing this.

I think they are very bulky.

 Glorywarrior wrote:
I'm convinced it's good...

If it's in a stormraven. Skies of blood it right as it comes in, and survive one turn before assaulting.

Can't put the Iron Hands CM on a bike if he goes in a Stormraven, but if he's on foot...

Only Infantry(or varieties of infantry) can be put in Transports; Bikes are not infantry, and thus can not be mounted up. But then you have two T4 models, and thus ruin it.

You need him on the bike for the T5...

I thought that was for dedicated transports... sort of like Mephy can't go in any tanks because it doesn't say in his profile: can take a ___ for a dedicated transport. But since nothing says that about ravens, he can be in a raven. I thought it was the same with bikes. They are just very bulky.

 Glorywarrior wrote:
the 2nd.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 obsidiankatana wrote:

 curran12 wrote:

Let me lay out the logic here for me.

It is not about the ICs in the unit. That part is fine and they can totally join one-model units.

However, the problem lies with Mephiston. He is a character, but not independent. Therefore, he cannot join units. Saying "oh but these ICs are joining him" is not adequate, as joining works both ways, Meph is also joining a unit, which he cannot do because he is not an IC.

Entirely false. Joining does not go both ways. Rules state Independent Characters can join units, rules do not state that units can join independent characters. Thus by your logic, a Captain cannot join a tac squad because a tac squad cannot join a Captain.

This. Oh, oh, this. Your entire argument just went "flush"

Easy there killer. You done having your little victory dance over winning a rules argument on the internet?

I asked for clarification, explained my objection and thought, and got corrected. Take it down a notch, hotshot.